Childhood obesity costs Thai govt 5.5 billion baht a year

[12DrinkMore]

Its the same the world over , Bad education. Some Thais think Fat is good.

Sounds like you're talking about culture rather than education.

Anyway, I have read studies asserting that education programs alone are not enough and are only nominally effective.

For example, Australians mostly think fat is very ugly and they already know eating broccoli is a better choice than a cream filled donut, but the obesity rates are still high.

Not dissing education, of course its needed, but I am challenging the popular notion that this is all or mostly about education and that education is a panacea to combat this.

There really isn't evidence that is really true.

And your suggestion is what? That the ever benevolent state apparatus should take over and make the choices for people 'for their own good'?

Neither you, nor me, nor the state know what is best for anyone else. We live our lives according to our own appraisal of the risk / benefit equation as we see it. It's nothing to do with anybody else what our personal assessment of that risk / benefit is, and for the state and it's 'Public Health' hangers-on (or anyone else, for that matter) to think that it is within their remit to decide (and coerce) what sort of lifestyle another person should adopt is arrogance in the extreme.

Anyone who has the temerity to tell me whether I can or cannot smoke, how much I should drink, and what I can and cannot eat gets short shrift from me, and deservedly so.

And given that, as with smoking and drinking, the figures quoted are generally the figment of some ideologue's agenda driven fantasy, everything you read about the latest 'epidemic' that's currently fashionable should be taken with a VERY large pinch of salt. I've uncovered so many blatant lies and exaggerations from the anti-tobacco and anti-alcohol zealots in 'Public Health' that I no longer believe a single word they utter.

http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.gr/2014/11/the-cost-of-obesity-again-already.html

Although I totally agree with your sentiments, and, indeed, will fully support them, provided that not one cent, penny, baht of the costs of any illness or disability caused through "lifestyle choices" is socialised onto the rest of the population.

And furthermore, in no way should my right to breath smoke free air be subjugated to your right to smoke cigarettes.

Edited November 26, 2014 by 12DrinkMore

[hughben]

Dr. Robert Lustig's excellent seminars on sugar addresses the reasons behind obesity.

Completely changed my outlook. No fruit juices ever again. Coke/soda does as much damage to the liver as alcohol does too.

Original seminar 2009:

Update 2013:

Edited November 26, 2014 by hughben

[Jingthing]

Although I totally agree with your sentiments, and, indeed, will fully support them, provided that not one cent, penny, baht of the costs of any illness or disability caused through "lifestyle choices" is socialised onto the rest of the population.

And furthermore, in no way should my right to breath smoke free air be subjugated to your right to smoke cigarettes.

Well Thailand offers at least basic health care to all citizens. Also while I get the "choice" argument with adults it doesn't work with children. There is also the matter of INFORMED choice which gets into the contents of popular modern processed foods and how they are marketed.

[12DrinkMore]

Although I totally agree with your sentiments, and, indeed, will fully support them, provided that not one cent, penny, baht of the costs of any illness or disability caused through "lifestyle choices" is socialised onto the rest of the population.

And furthermore, in no way should my right to breath smoke free air be subjugated to your right to smoke cigarettes.

Well Thailand offers at least basic health care to all citizens. Also while I get the "choice" argument with adults it doesn't work with children. There is also the matter of INFORMED choice which gets into the contents of popular modern processed foods and how they are marketed.

Yes, I was aiming my post at the guy who reckoned he should be allowed to lead whatever lifestyle he wants.

Clearly this is unworkable outside the context of one person isolated from everybody else.

Part of the job of a responsible government is to inform the public, restrict the access to harmful goods, prevent the behaviour of those whose "lifestyle choice" detracts from the rights of others to enjoy their lives, and even to an extent, to prevent individual self-harm.

There has to be a careful balance, but we all live in a society, and although the protection of individual rights within that society is important, so is the protection of society as a whole. And to this end in a democracy we have given away certain individual rights to be able to enjoy living in a society.

Edited November 26, 2014 by 12DrinkMore

[maidee]

so 20 kg overweight children can lose this fat in 4-6 months ?

they are going to put them on SPEED aka dieet pills ?

[Jingthing]

so 20 kg overweight children can lose this fat in 4-6 months ?

they are going to put them on SPEED aka dieet pills ?

Not sure, but losing the weight as hard as it can be, is actually the much easier part of this. Keeping it off is much harder. Most obese people can manage to lose weight. Often several times in their lives. Most can't manage to keep it off. For many complex reasons, and "will power" and "morality issues" are NOT the only ones or arguably the most important ones either.

Again ... best bang for the baht is PREVENTION.

I see the appeal of dramatic short term measurable results for PR reasons ... we helped these kids "lose" millions of kilos. Not looking what happens next to them or possibly even caring.

It's much harder to measure or brag about the cases your have PREVENTED or get political credit of funding for that ... what might be seen as an INVISIBLE result.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[RobSmith]

"Part of the job of a responsible government is to restrict the access restrict the access to harmful goods, prevent the behavior of those whose "lifestyle choice" detracts from the rights of others to enjoy their lives, and even to an extent, to prevent individual self-harm."

Hey all

Don't respond to forum posts very often but the above sort of asks lots of questions

Since when did i vote for a government to censure me for my own good ?

"lifestyle choices for our own good" ----is sharia law now the norm?

A narrow view take on this is -- I don't drive - your emission from a car will kill ya - just plug the exhaust in ya window

i'm a smoker - i'm killing the planet - agreed but i'm killing me quicker

drivers: catalytic converters remove 99% of harmful waste - so why will i die if i plug it inside my enclosed space(ok carbon monoxide- unproven to be non carcinogenic by the way- but will kill ya through restricting oxygen)

Do the same with cigarettes lets see who survives. - so lifestyle choices are really the preserve of the choices of the convenient

Now let's go back the original statement

"Part of the job of a responsible government is to an extent, to prevent individual self-harm."

wow - what a statement - what self-harms us? - alcohol, drugs, marriage, kids, work, food, fun ????

I reject the collective view that we need to be ruled this way - education and security is the first fundamental reasoning for self determination.

So as everyone likes to make a bl;and political speech, here is my anti-speech

It is in no way ever the servants and administrators of our collective democratic choice to decide the fate of our social privileges, this is called freedom and is beyond governmental law as that allows the powerful to overrule the society they serve

Furthermore the peer pressure as a society of free people will always be above those that serve us as administrators of our free will.

i.e we should be intelligent enough (with a fundamental right of education) without government control to decide to make free will choices to smoke,drink,drive,ski ,drive fast cars, womanise or for the ladies manise (is that a word?)

Governments have tried to design a society of sheep for thousands of years, they are getting better at it - we the people should always take the choice of rebellion to oppose governments choices of a ruling bodies political convenience to enable a social choice with all the pitfalls of humanity, the cost of freedom is not to put too much into another persons hands and give away our rights -- ( includes the rights to <deleted> up and be punished or go to pattaya and save a poor girl from endless hours of facebooking )

We cannot always serve the lowest common denominator or social outcast - but we should never be complacent that the middle ground is the devils playground and those you vote for are inherently flawed by trying to serve everyone at the same time - i.e serving no one.

here endeth the speech of a drunk man - living in this crazy world :-)

wheels up 10 days ......

[Thai at Heart]

This is a big problem . the Thai govt even subsidises the sugar price in Thailand. Thais certainly have a very sweet tooth with even their savory foods having a good dose of sugar.

Every fast food outlet in the UK now has calorie values on the menu. Tell you what it gives you pause for thought about that large fries and coke to go with your big Mac.

Just switching to squash, water or died coke from coke makes a massive differnece to calories in a day, and getting a small child to be be fat can be the differnce of reducing net intake by 200 calories per day.

The value of a coke.

[Jingthing]

Focus again on children.

Nobody questions laws against selling whiskey to toddlers.

Think of the coca cola bought by the parents as whiskey and you might begin to see the social problems of why more kids are becoming obese.

Of course it shouldn't be illegal to offer children coca cola.
But there is a middle ground between illegal and promoting the hell out of it.

[cmsally]

If this is the case then pray tell me why there is a McDonalds in Suan Dokh Govt Hospital in Chiang Mai. Actually in the hospital perimeter on the bottom floor of a new building which belongs to the hospital/govt.

[Thai at Heart]

Although I totally agree with your sentiments, and, indeed, will fully support them, provided that not one cent, penny, baht of the costs of any illness or disability caused through "lifestyle choices" is socialised onto the rest of the population.

And furthermore, in no way should my right to breath smoke free air be subjugated to your right to smoke cigarettes.

Well Thailand offers at least basic health care to all citizens. Also while I get the "choice" argument with adults it doesn't work with children. There is also the matter of INFORMED choice which gets into the contents of popular modern processed foods and how they are marketed.

Yes, I was aiming my post at the guy who reckoned he should be allowed to lead whatever lifestyle he wants.

Clearly this is unworkable outside the context of one person isolated from everybody else.

Part of the job of a responsible government is to inform the public, restrict the access to harmful goods, prevent the behaviour of those whose "lifestyle choice" detracts from the rights of others to enjoy their lives, and even to an extent, to prevent individual self-harm.

There has to be a careful balance, but we all live in a society, and although the protection of individual rights within that society is important, so is the protection of society as a whole. And to this end in a democracy we have given away certain individual rights to be able to enjoy living in a society.

Intersting this. Someone down below railed about the govt.

In the UK there is a push to reduce sugar and salt in processed foods. Apparently they did this as an industry group together en masse .

The other day, for the first time I picked up the reduced salt and sugar baked beans. And...the kids

Didn't bat an eyelid at the taste difference. It was so slight a change that barely anyone noticed. So this can be achieved in some foods with barely any chance.

So it can be right that the govt intervenes on these things to bring around a change.

[wilcopops]

"Part of the job of a responsible government is to restrict the access restrict the access to harmful goods, prevent the behavior of those whose "lifestyle choice" detracts from the rights of others to enjoy their lives, and even to an extent, to prevent individual self-harm."

Hey all

Don't respond to forum posts very often but the above sort of asks lots of questions

Since when did i vote for a government to censure me for my own good ?

"lifestyle choices for our own good" ----is sharia law now the norm?

A narrow view take on this is -- I don't drive - your emission from a car will kill ya - just plug the exhaust in ya window

i'm a smoker - i'm killing the planet - agreed but i'm killing me quicker

drivers: catalytic converters remove 99% of harmful waste - so why will i die if i plug it inside my enclosed space(ok carbon monoxide- unproven to be non carcinogenic by the way- but will kill ya through restricting oxygen)

Do the same with cigarettes lets see who survives. - so lifestyle choices are really the preserve of the choices of the convenient

Now let's go back the original statement

"Part of the job of a responsible government is to an extent, to prevent individual self-harm."

wow - what a statement - what self-harms us? - alcohol, drugs, marriage, kids, work, food, fun ????

I reject the collective view that we need to be ruled this way - education and security is the first fundamental reasoning for self determination.

So as everyone likes to make a bl;and political speech, here is my anti-speech

It is in no way ever the servants and administrators of our collective democratic choice to decide the fate of our social privileges, this is called freedom and is beyond governmental law as that allows the powerful to overrule the society they serve

Furthermore the peer pressure as a society of free people will always be above those that serve us as administrators of our free will.

i.e we should be intelligent enough (with a fundamental right of education) without government control to decide to make free will choices to smoke,drink,drive,ski ,drive fast cars, womanise or for the ladies manise (is that a word?)

Governments have tried to design a society of sheep for thousands of years, they are getting better at it - we the people should always take the choice of rebellion to oppose governments choices of a ruling bodies political convenience to enable a social choice with all the pitfalls of humanity, the cost of freedom is not to put too much into another persons hands and give away our rights -- ( includes the rights to <deleted> up and be punished or go to pattaya and save a poor girl from endless hours of facebooking )

We cannot always serve the lowest common denominator or social outcast - but we should never be complacent that the middle ground is the devils playground and those you vote for are inherently flawed by trying to serve everyone at the same time - i.e serving no one.

here endeth the speech of a drunk man - living in this crazy world :-)

wheels up 10 days ......

Every word sysllsble letter of this post is sooooo I'll informed it beggars belief.

[h90]

Here is one area where i think other nations might be jealous .

Thais are by world standards doing far better than other countries -

And though they might have some problems - compared to America - England - Australia - New Zealand and many other western Nations and Island Pacific countries -They are doing Great

I disagree with you on this because the TREND in Thailand is that it is clearly HEADED towards the obesity levels of those other admittedly very high obesity rate nations. Thailand is NOT doing great. Thailand is failing miserably at this but the good news is that action taken NOW has hope of reversing the trend. This is about much more than personal choices, but an issue about the food culture, the food access environment, government regulation policies on food labeling, and of course education. Traditional Thai food culture was fine. But things have changed.

Specially: "8.8% last year to 9.5% this year", that is +8% in one year. That is scary.

[h90]

Focus again on children.

Nobody questions laws against selling whiskey to toddlers.

Think of the coca cola bought by the parents as whiskey and you might begin to see the social problems of why more kids are becoming obese.

Of course it shouldn't be illegal to offer children coca cola.

But there is a middle ground between illegal and promoting the hell out of it.

I question the laws against selling whiskey to toddlers. Where I come from it was common to send over a kid in the supermarket to buy some beer/wine and some cigarettes for the parents. As 6-7 year old we were proud to get such a task.

And guess what...less kids drank alcohol and smoke than now when they can't buy it.

There is a problem in the society that causes the kids to drink and smoke or get fed fat. That can't be fixed with laws.

The Nanny state is very poor in taking over the parents job (equal poor as in taking over business in communism).

[Jingthing]

Correction: No REASONABLE people question laws against selling whiskey to toddlers.

Next! ...

Edited November 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[farangmick]

Tough on the farang who first come to Thailand fifteen years down the line when all the bar girls will look like the fat lasses out in Bradford on a Friday night.

[hughben]

This is a big problem . the Thai govt even subsidises the sugar price in Thailand. Thais certainly have a very sweet tooth with even their savory foods having a good dose of sugar.

Every fast food outlet in the UK now has calorie values on the menu. Tell you what it gives you pause for thought about that large fries and coke to go with your big Mac.

Just switching to squash, water or died coke from coke makes a massive differnece to calories in a day, and getting a small child to be be fat can be the differnce of reducing net intake by 200 calories per day.

The value of a coke.

If you watch the videos I posted above, you probably would not recommend squash or diet coke to anyone and your views on calories would change.

[Thai at Heart]

This is a big problem . the Thai govt even subsidises the sugar price in Thailand. Thais certainly have a very sweet tooth with even their savory foods having a good dose of sugar.

Every fast food outlet in the UK now has calorie values on the menu. Tell you what it gives you pause for thought about that large fries and coke to go with your big Mac.

Just switching to squash, water or died coke from coke makes a massive differnece to calories in a day, and getting a small child to be be fat can be the differnce of reducing net intake by 200 calories per day.

The value of a coke.

If you watch the videos I posted above, you probably would not recommend squash or diet coke to anyone and your views on calories would change.

The issue is sugar. Diet coke isn't brilliant, but at least its sugar free. A splosh of squash for flavor, can't be more than a single spoon of sugar because it is a splosh.

Its not meant to be drunk at a 50% mix. So by definition squash is 99% water. But coke and most sodas are by definition absolutely rammed full of sugar or worse hfcs.

No one is going to get thinner if they are consuming too many calories and no exercise. That is an absolute. Most adults need an average number to maintain, eat less and lose, eat too many and gain.

What is the single largest source of wasted calories? extra sugar. You can have a pretty reasonable snack for the same as a can of coke or a chocolate bar. Then think about kids if they are sedentary.

How quickly do they gain 1kg if they consume one can of cokes worth of calories too many per day?

Take a can of coke and a sweet snack out of a kids diet and you gain probably 500 calories in space in their diet. That is 25% of an adults intake let alone a sedentary kids.

Sadly but truthfully, there aren't any fat people in a famine. Cut out extra sugar and watch your weight drop.

[Jingthing]

Current scientific thinking reveals not all calories are equal. Some types of calories yes sugar are worse and promote fat storage much more than others. Evidence is indicating that fake sugars as in diet soda are perceived by the body as real triggering unhealthy reactions. Seeing weight control issues as a case of simple math is very passe. Your granny probably believed that ... modern people should really know better. There is math but there are also other more complex factors at play.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited November 26, 2014 by Jingthing

[cmsally]

Corn syrup is used in many foods instead of sugar.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/4/537.full

[Jingthing]

Yes it's a type of sugar.

Sugar in fibers like fresh fruit are processed differently in the body. Much better choice than simple sugars.

Processed white rice pasta bread etc converts into sugar.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[robblok]

Yes it's a type of sugar.

Sugar in fibers like fresh fruit are processed differently in the body. Much better choice than simple sugars.

Processed white rice pasta bread etc converts into sugar.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually most things get converted int glucose (sugar) by the body. That does not make them bad its what the body and brain use for fuel.

However if the glucose spikes too fast and too high you risk diabetice and fat storage.

So complex carbs are better as simple ones. But even too much complex carbs can harm you.

Getting fat is mostly about what you eat and how much. Exercise however important it is for health does not have as much impact as most think. Its almost impossible to out exercise a bad diet.

It is of course good for cardiovascular health and bone health and muscles but certainly not the cure for obesity as it would require far too much of it. Think 3 or more hours of hard exercise. Something obese people are not even capable of.

The irony is that athletes can do those volumes but they are not obese.

[cmsally]

Heaps of studies to suggest corn syrup way worse than sugar.

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/

[Thai at Heart]

Current scientific thinking reveals not all calories are equal. Some types of calories yes sugar are worse and promote fat storage much more than others. Evidence is indicating that fake sugars as in diet soda are perceived by the body as real triggering unhealthy reactions. Seeing weight control issues as a case of simple math is very passe. Your granny probably believed that ... modern people should really know better. There is math but there are also other more complex factors at play.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Call it passe but you won't get fat if you eat less calories than you need to maintain your weight. How u get there healthily is up to you. You need to eat an awful lot of vegetables, salad and lean grilled meat or fish to over consume.

We were never meant to be consuming this much refined sugar, even less so HFCS which is a franken food. HFCS will eventually be proven to be the reason for the explosion in obesity in the USA. The correlation is clear to me.

It went into sodas in volume in the late 70s and 80s. Obesity took off since then. It made the cost of sodas in mass volume significantly cheaper.

That is a simple fact. This can also be augmented by exercise.

Pasta sauce is what? Tomataes.onions, garlic, and some oregano. So why when it is processed does it need sugar in such volume or worse HFCS in some cases. We have got so far away from what food can be its sad really.

[MaxLee]

OR,.... When kids are thrown into weekly big family barbecues, or technically force fed encouraged to eat EVERYTHING, they are fed from their grand relatives, without having the right to refuse due to elder loss of face,....(which is especially tradition in Chinese Thai families)

,.... just saying

[wilcopops]

OR,.... When kids are thrown into weekly big family barbecues, or technically force fed encouraged to eat EVERYTHING, they are fed from their grand relatives, without having the right to refuse due to elder loss of face,....(which is especially tradition in Chinese Thai families)

,.... just saying

what ARE you saying?

[louse1953]

"The Ministry of Public Health has come up with plan to help overweight students lose weight as a way to reduce healthcare costs."

How do they change a mindset? As long as overweight children are considered a sign of prosperity, they won't begin to tackle the problem. I constantly see adults pinch the cheeks of morbidly obese children and tell them how cute they are. Every day I see more and more obese (and underage) children driving their own motor bikes while drinking a giant Slushy at the same time. Sugar is ladled on everything from noodles to soup. Diets high in sugar and simple carbohydrates, minimal exercise, positive reinforcement are all roads leading to Type 2 diabetes...And this is before they've discovered alcohol and tobacco.

It Don't Look Good Folks.

Hard to get past the aloy factor.If you put sugar and fish sauce in rat poison,they would eat it.When they diet,they just stop eating or take a laxative.Coke for breakfast,unf...ingbelievable.It's an uphill battle around my way,at least the coke has stopped.

[harryfrompattaya]

Its the same the world over , Bad education. Some Thais think Fat is good.

Maybe the answer is work camps are good idea The Japanese camps in Thailand keep the people thin I know you think I am drinking but nothing sort of this will work