Sporty underbones dead? Honda Sonic 150 ?

[ttakata]

In my boredom researching Suzuki Raider hop-up parts in neighboring countries I see hope for a Sonic 150 persists well enough people have made computer renderings.

[imghttp://paperiders.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/sonic-150.jpg[/img]

I still see Sonics as taxi bikes although every year they get rarer as they are replaced by automatics.

The MSX125 is cool but not really a replacement with it's fat and short tires and 70+K price.

I wonder if Honda feels the sporty underbone is a dead market or is just waiting for the right time?

The Yamaha Spark, X1R, and Suzuki Raiders don't sell much but I suspect it's because they don't have a Honda label on them.

If so many fans are taking time to make concept renderings, there must be good demand and fanfare for a full clutch underbone with water cooling for ~60K.

Chat if you care...

[seedy]

More of a motorcycle than a scooter, so appeals to a different type of rider.

Waiting for the next drag races here at 700 year stadium, have been told I will see lots of them. Some very quick !

[ll2]

Sonic is really a good bike. Used one for a while with lots of fun.

Hope honda makes a new model but please 150 cc at least.

[papa al]

Cool renderings!

A SuperSonic150 would spank a CBR150 for sure

[andrewrooney]

I've wondered why Honda doesn't make the Sonic anymore. The motorcycle taxi drivers and Dek Wan kids all love that bike, seems like they're missing out on a pretty obvious segment of the market. The Suzuki Raider is the only real equivalent being sold now.

[papa al]

Honda is rightly reluctant to do a Sonic150 @ +60Kbaht because:

A) They see Raiders @ ~68Kbaht aren't selling well and

2) it would cannibalize sales of CBR150, which aren't really selling much either @ B80K+,

compared to say the Wave125 @55K-ish baht, which also might be cannibalized some.

Also, the maybe 150kph would be scary dangerous on that little thing.

There is a reason the CBR150 is big & heavy.

So, I expect the concept, albeit cool, shall remain a dream of the boy-racer mind.

Out.

[dave_boo]

The OG Sonic topped out at 125cc didn't it?

One of the uncle in laws bought a new one a few years ago....I rode it and it seemed nice enough for a scooter. Wasn't that blown away by the power (but there's still a lot of 2T underbones floating around Nakhon Sawan) but reckon it's really good for what it is. Can definitely see why the mocyc-taxi guys like it.

I don't think that looking at the sales of the Raider is a good indicator. I mostly see Hondas (Waves and Clicks and Scoopys) and Finos. Not much of anything else being sold. Not saying that there wasn't a sales goal set that is not being met, but doesn't Honda have something like >80% of the market? The comparatively few Raiders being sold is a minor blip on the overall scene.

To be honest, I don't see the CBR 150 being long for this world. While it is a cheap start into the proper motorcycle universe, it's not that much less than a CB300 which is a much better bike. It is also getting crowded out by bikes like the SH150 and PCX 150 which can be used for transporting the family and still be faster than the majority of underbones.

[ll2]

In bangkok, there are lots of cbr150r s on the roads. It is very popular and all i know, it sells very good.

Of course Thai people favor honda just bc they are more durable and reliable plus better resale value. Raider is cool bike but price is close to big bike looking comfy and powerful cbr150 with lots of room.

[pokerkid]

In bangkok, there are lots of cbr150r s on the roads. It is very popular and all i know, it sells very good.

Of course Thai people favor honda just bc they are more durable and reliable plus better resale value. Raider is cool bike but price is close to big bike looking comfy and powerful cbr150 with lots of room.

also some farang here seem to favour honda...

Edited November 27, 2014 by pokerkid

[papa al]

Dave_boo: mostly right.

I've read that Honda is 69% of the sales here, so the company can expect cannibalization with any new model release.

Why bother.

Waves, Clicks, Scoopys are the bread.

CBRs are the butter.

[ll2]

In bangkok, there are lots of cbr150r s on the roads. It is very popular and all i know, it sells very good.

Of course Thai people favor honda just bc they are more durable and reliable plus better resale value. Raider is cool bike but price is close to big bike looking comfy and powerful cbr150 with lots of room.

also some farang here seem to favour honda...

yep, very normal for farang. Honda is the best seller at farang lands as well, remember?

[andrewrooney]

I see a lot of CBR 150s in Bangkok. A lot of people here want a sporty looking 'big bike' but the 150 is all they can afford. The Sonic was more a hit with the mocyc taxis and street racer kids. Seems like a different market segment to me. Even if they just brought back the 125 version I would think it would sell well. I think the main reason you don't see many Raiders has to do with Suzuki's lack of marketing/distribution compared to Honda and Yamaha.

Then again maybe Honda just figures they have enough models in their lineup already so why bother.

[macknife]

Loads of CBR150s. I'm starting to see a lot more Yamaha R15s now as well in Bangkok.

I have to say, the CBR150 is hard to beat for a small 'big bike' Not great acceleration low down but at higher speeds will easily beat any sonic or raider. Has a higher top speed than even the Forza 300 so very good for some touring.

[ttakata]

I think I've seen 3 of the R15s in the last week.

I can see why the average Thai would pick a CBR or R15 to show off as something similar to a bigbike but not everyone wants or needs a big bike.

I wonder how big the taxi bike market is?

Has to be thousands of taxi bikes in BKK alone never mind other SE Asian countries.

No taxi bike would roll on a CBR/R15.

They simply can't maneuver well in stopped traffic with the extra weight, higher CoG, and much longer wheelbases.

I think in the past the taxi bikes liked the chain drive underbones to save on gas.

I wonder if the PCX gets better mileage with its auto shutdown feature because I see many PCXs as taxi bikes now.

[dave_boo]

I think I've seen 3 of the R15s in the last week.

I can see why the average Thai would pick a CBR or R15 to show off as something similar to a bigbike but not everyone wants or needs a big bike.

I wonder how big the taxi bike market is?

Has to be thousands of taxi bikes in BKK alone never mind other SE Asian countries.

No taxi bike would roll on a CBR/R15.

They simply can't maneuver well in stopped traffic with the extra weight, higher CoG, and much longer wheelbases.

I think in the past the taxi bikes liked the chain drive underbones to save on gas.

I wonder if the PCX gets better mileage with its auto shutdown feature because I see many PCXs as taxi bikes now.

Have you ridden a CBR 150 in BKK?

They acquit themselves very well in the traffic; stopped or flowing. When I had mine there wasn't any underbones who left me behind. The old carb'd models had a width of 675mm and a wheelbase of 1294mm. That's 15mm wider and 43mm longer wheelbase than the Sonic. Not sure how the new 150s measure up though.

[papa al]

"In bangkok, there are lots of cbr150r s on the roads. It is very popular and all i know, it sells very good."

"Loads of CBR150s."

In post #6 I indicated that CBR150 doesn't sell well compared to Wave125.

In BKK I'd bet they sell >20 Wave125's for each CBR150, likely much more.

In the provinces its probably >100:1.

The 150i is a decent enough touring ride, hitting ~145 indicated & stable on those big tires.

Big tankage.

Quite a handful in slow speed mud or sand/gravel though.

Difficult to horse around in the parking garage.

Now the old carb version: lighter, quicker, more nimble and nearly as fast.

Quite inexpensive 2nd hand.

Unfortunately, popular with thieves... but locks are cheap.

But a Sonic150 would beat all those, methinks.

Small tank would be a drawback for touring.

[andrewrooney]

I think I've seen 3 of the R15s in the last week.

I can see why the average Thai would pick a CBR or R15 to show off as something similar to a bigbike but not everyone wants or needs a big bike.

I wonder how big the taxi bike market is?

Has to be thousands of taxi bikes in BKK alone never mind other SE Asian countries.

No taxi bike would roll on a CBR/R15.

They simply can't maneuver well in stopped traffic with the extra weight, higher CoG, and much longer wheelbases.

I think in the past the taxi bikes liked the chain drive underbones to save on gas.

I wonder if the PCX gets better mileage with its auto shutdown feature because I see many PCXs as taxi bikes now.

Have you ridden a CBR 150 in BKK?

They acquit themselves very well in the traffic; stopped or flowing. When I had mine there wasn't any underbones who left me behind. The old carb'd models had a width of 675mm and a wheelbase of 1294mm. That's 15mm wider and 43mm longer wheelbase than the Sonic. Not sure how the new 150s measure up though.

I agree that a CBR can move through traffic pretty well, but you can see why an underbone would be better for a motorcycle taxi bike. In totally stopped traffic the smaller size/shorter wheelbase is better for maneuvering between stopped cars (I'm thinking of stopped traffic such as Lad Prao road at 5pm). Also easier for them to take on the sidewalk etc.

Plus the Sonic would have a bigger seat, easier for passengers to get on and off quicly.

Can't really ride 3 up/4up on a CBR either.

As for the dimensions of the new CBR150 I think it's bigger than the old carbed model. Don't know the exact dimensions offhand though.

[ll2]

motorbike taxis dont use cbr150r as basically, it is hard to hop on and off for the customers as it is higher and less room on the back than a scooter or underbone. Not bc it cannot run or split lanes in hard traffic as a scooter or underbone. i rode a cbr150r in Bangkok for 3 years and it is a breeze to ride ti in traffic.

cbr150r s is commonly used for couriers, document delivery guys, loan sharks, youngsters and people looking for a sporty bike looking like a bigger bike with lots of room etc.

cbr150r uses nearly the same petrol as a 125 cc scooter.

it is a good looking bike as well. although nearly 4 years passed from its first release, still looking cool not like busy kawa designs around.

new model cbr150r is coming though.

[dave_boo]

I agree that a CBR can move through traffic pretty well, but you can see why an underbone would be better for a motorcycle taxi bike. In totally stopped traffic the smaller size/shorter wheelbase is better for maneuvering between stopped cars (I'm thinking of stopped traffic such as Lad Prao road at 5pm). Also easier for them to take on the sidewalk etc.

Plus the Sonic would have a bigger seat, easier for passengers to get on and off quicly.

Can't really ride 3 up/4up on a CBR either.

As for the dimensions of the new CBR150 I think it's bigger than the old carbed model. Don't know the exact dimensions offhand though.

Just for the record I am not advocating using a CBR 150 for mocyc taxi. I just think that people are under the belief that it is a bigger bike than it actually is and thus negatively impacted through traffic. Once again for the carb'd versions, it's got a shorter wheel base and width than the PCX! It's got 13 mm more wheelbase and is actually 14 mm more narrow than a Click.....thus my protests that the old carb'd version is probably the best BKK bike out there.