Just got kicked out of thai with valid visa

[Kitsune]

Even if you are a genuine student you could be sent home if they don't believe you, it doesn't matter if you are really studying or not.

We do not hear of many cases like yours, it is very rare, first case actually. If immigration thinks someone is a genuine student there should be no issues with entering the country or making visa extensions.

What would you have done if he had contacted you?

[MacWalen]

What would you have done if he had contacted you?

I would have tried to help.

[Kitsune]

What would you have done if he had contacted you?

I would have tried to help.

How?

Do you have contacts at Immigration airport?

Would you have come to the airport or sent someone?

[BKKSnowBird]

What would you have done if he had contacted you?

I would have tried to help.

How?

Do you have contacts at Immigration airport?

Would you have come to the airport or sent someone?

Do you think any school would do that? The guy admits he was playing the system.

They are a school not a babysitting service.

Edited December 5, 2014 by BKKSnowBird

[MacWalen]

How?

Do you have contacts at Immigration airport?

Would you have come to the airport or sent someone?

I don't want to tell you details but I would do my best to help.

Edited December 5, 2014 by MacWalen

[MacWalen]

Do you think any school would do that? The guy admits he was playing the system.

Excuse me?! Walen School is not playing the system and I have never admited anything like that anywhere. Please don't invent things.

[Christie Paul]

I wonder just how many of these education visas are real; I suspect not that many. I know of several "seniors" with such visas who are only required to attend one, half hour lesson per week and have never been tested for knowledge of the Thai language or whatever. If such people have to resort to education visas because they do not have the funds available to obtain a retirement visa, then Thailand is quite right in not wanting them here.

You should be ashamed to speak like this

The OP is a FATHER of a Thai child,

He's on a legit Thai learning school sponsored and recommended here to learn Thai

He can speak Thai.

When is this stupid witch's hunt will end?

What happened to decency?

Thai immigration has managed to turn Farangs against each others and this reeks really bad.

That's an interesting observation. It seems like a version of Stockholm syndrome or something in which the oppressor gets the sympathy instead of the oppressed.

Why can't humans live anywhere they want?

[stevenl]

Do you think any school would do that? The guy admits he was playing the system.

Excuse me?! Walen School is not playing the system and I have never admited anything like that anywhere. Please don't invent things.

I think snowbird was referring to the OP 'playing the system', not Walen.

[BKKSnowBird]

Do you think any school would do that? The guy admits he was playing the system.

Excuse me?! Walen School is not playing the system and I have never admited anything like that anywhere. Please don't invent things.

I was talking about the student not you.

I don't like your arogant attitude sometimes but I also dont think it your resposibility to hold your students hands.

[MacWalen]

Ok, have missed the point then, I do get attacked a lot here so I get defensive sometimes.

[JohnnyBKK]

Actually at Walen you can ask the staff to mark 100% attendance even if you don't go there. But they never advice you to do so. They told me to come to the classes but i didn't. They don't tell people "don't come it's fine", they tell us to come, but if we don't we still have the stamps as if we went to the classes. It's not their fault anyway, they are doing a good job.

I wasn't looking like someone who don't go to classes, i went to HK one time on the last 3 years and one time to Singapore. I'm not a serial traveller. I'm not involded in any employement in Thailand, i'm receiving dividends from HK and from Google by Western Union. I'm not working in Thailand.

So it doesn't matter if you look like a student, because i'm quite young looking, everyone thinks i'm 18-19 but i'm 28. If they don't believe you, they will deport you. Actually, on that day they were checking every ED visa holder.

[BKKSnowBird]

Ok, have missed the point then, I do get attacked a lot here so I get defensive sometimes.

I say don't worry about others. Your current students and word of mouth is your best marketing tool but guess you already know that.

I think you get attacked a lot because you seem to point fingers a lot. I am sure you know more about Thailand than most but nobody likes a "know it all". Just my opinion.

[BKKSnowBird]

How?

Do you have contacts at Immigration airport?

Would you have come to the airport or sent someone?

I don't want to tell you details but I would do my best to help.

Much better.

[Robert24]

I've been thinking about how I would respond to an immigration officer if I would get challenged on my next re-entry into Thailand. I will certainly take all my school books/documents with me so I can show I went to school, I will have my school's phone number with me, I will enter day time when the school is open so worst case I will ask them to call the school, I will have the school's phone number on me, the teacher's name and maybe more (i.e. I've been thinking about making a copy of the school's attendance records so I have that with me. Or I make some photos in class). And plenty of cash so they can't blame me for not having enough cash.

But I must say this is getting silly. Someone on here has commented it's up to you to prove to immigration that you don't work in Thailand, not up for immigration to prove you work. How do you do that? Seriously? I've lived in many countries but never had to worry whether an immigration officer would send me back to my country of origin when entering the country.

I will definitely stop with the ED visa with a private school/language school. Maybe I continue with a university. Maybe I will go on a tourist visa for a while until things become a bit clearer. Maybe I join the Elite visa.

[Kitsune]

Actually at Walen you can ask the staff to mark 100% attendance even if you don't go there. But they never advice you to do so. They told me to come to the classes but i didn't. They don't tell people "don't come it's fine", they tell us to come, but if we don't we still have the stamps as if we went to the classes. It's not their fault anyway, they are doing a good job.

I wasn't looking like someone who don't go to classes, i went to HK one time on the last 3 years and one time to Singapore. I'm not a serial traveller. I'm not involded in any employement in Thailand, i'm receiving dividends from HK and from Google by Western Union. I'm not working in Thailand.

So it doesn't matter if you look like a student, because i'm quite young looking, everyone thinks i'm 18-19 but i'm 28. If they don't believe you, they will deport you. Actually, on that day they were checking every ED visa holder.

I thought ALL students at Walen were attending

[brianp0803]

Do you do anything during the period of the visa if a student doesn't show up, or does it just become an issue when it's time for renewal?

We will not mark their attendance if they do not attend their classes.

Is this a new policy since the crackdown?

Has it always been policy to take attendance? Do you know if there is an attempt to report attendance accurately?

I can tell you privately about attendance policy 6 months ago in the Bangkok office based on many observations.

You have many facilities.

If you are a popular language then you will have many regular students.

If you are most popular for people seeking cheap, low effort, long term visa is different. I understand you not wanting to share the percentage of visa students at your schools.

50% non visa students would be my bench mark for a qualify language school.

[brianp0803]

Actually at Walen you can ask the staff to mark 100% attendance even if you don't go there. But they never advice you to do so. They told me to come to the classes but i didn't. They don't tell people "don't come it's fine", they tell us to come, but if we don't we still have the stamps as if we went to the classes. It's not their fault anyway, they are doing a good job.

I wasn't looking like someone who don't go to classes, i went to HK one time on the last 3 years and one time to Singapore. I'm not a serial traveller. I'm not involded in any employement in Thailand, i'm receiving dividends from HK and from Google by Western Union. I'm not working in Thailand.

So it doesn't matter if you look like a student, because i'm quite young looking, everyone thinks i'm 18-19 but i'm 28. If they don't believe you, they will deport you. Actually, on that day they were checking every ED visa holder.

They should not mark you present unless you are present.

Is this common with other people at your school?

[MacWalen]

They should not mark you present unless you are present.

Is this common with other people at your school?

That is correct, they should not but a mistake was obviously made. It is not common. Also to put things in perspective, it was the very first such case. Walen School is trying our very best to take good care of our valued customers. We have at least 90-95% student satisfaction rate.

[bkkcanuck8]

I haven't contacted Walen because i know it's useless, they will not refund me and they will not get me in again. It's fine, it's not their fault if the thai immigration change the rules and enforcements all the time. And actually i'm glad i could stay in Thailand with my ED visa before even if i can't stay anymore, so why should i complain ?

I got some info from immigration officials saying that ED visa are targeted, that ED visa are a joke. They want to clean that up. If you don't get stopped at the immigration it doesn't mean that everything is fine, it's just a lazy officer. The word is to check on every ED visa holder if they are really studying or not and if they have money from abroad.

Even if you are a genuine student you could be sent home if they don't believe you, it doesn't matter if you are really studying or not. My post is a warning to all ED visa holders, carry with you enough cash to buy a ticket to your home country at all times or you could be sent to IDC.

It would be hard to figure out if they targeted you because of an ED visa, or because of your 8 year history.... I think more likely the latter. If you are a student for 6 months or less - immigration probably won't even bat an eye. If you are from 6 months to a year, and they get the feeling you cannot understand the simplest Thai phrase - you might get a second look. If you are a year or longer and your language is not inline with the time you have been in Thailand (regardless of the type of earlier visa types not being ED) that may raise red flags. If they don't believe you have the proven finances to support yourself as a student without working, that will raise red flags. So far I have heard nothing really that it is a crackdown on ED visas, just maybe a crackdown on serial ED visa abusers. If you are a genuine student, you will have language skills in line with the time that you have attended schools. You will also have some sort of savings that you could provide as proof that you have the means to support yourself. If you are a genuine student -- it is highly unlikely you would have been caught in this net.

[bkkcanuck8]

I've been thinking about how I would respond to an immigration officer if I would get challenged on my next re-entry into Thailand. I will certainly take all my school books/documents with me so I can show I went to school, I will have my school's phone number with me, I will enter day time when the school is open so worst case I will ask them to call the school, I will have the school's phone number on me, the teacher's name and maybe more (i.e. I've been thinking about making a copy of the school's attendance records so I have that with me. Or I make some photos in class). And plenty of cash so they can't blame me for not having enough cash.

But I must say this is getting silly. Someone on here has commented it's up to you to prove to immigration that you don't work in Thailand, not up for immigration to prove you work. How do you do that? Seriously? I've lived in many countries but never had to worry whether an immigration officer would send me back to my country of origin when entering the country.

I will definitely stop with the ED visa with a private school/language school. Maybe I continue with a university. Maybe I will go on a tourist visa for a while until things become a bit clearer. Maybe I join the Elite visa.

Think of it as if you were coming at it like an immigration officer. Is your language skills inline with the time spent in Thailand? Can you provide proof of a source of funds that you are using to support yourself (i.e. very recent letter from a bank indicating cash on hand, investments, and line of credit). They are not looking at you to prove that you are not working in Thailand, they want you to prove to them that you that it is not a necessity and thus you are a low risk of being an offender. If you have the cash on hand for an Elite visa and you are actually attending school -- you will not be an appetizing fish to catch in the net. It also would not hurt to have a reputable Thai law that you have a card for and can call if there are any problems.

[paz]

That is correct, they should not but a mistake was obviously made. It is not common. Also to put things in perspective, it was the very first such case. Walen School is trying our very best to take good care of our valued customers. We have at least 90-95% student satisfaction rate.

Wonderful. Is there any occasion where you do not feel compelled to conclude with a canned advertising statement - even when confronted with a "mistake" made by your employees.

Edited December 5, 2014 by paz

[jspill]

Will you comment about the percentage of students at your school over the past year on Ed visa?

It is well known that Walen School has a lot of students on ED visas being the most popular Thai language school in Thailand.

The question was what percentage are on Ed visas, not how many.

[brianp0803]

That is correct, they should not but a mistake was obviously made. It is not common. Also to put things in perspective, it was the very first such case. Walen School is trying our very best to take good care of our valued customers. We have at least 90-95% student satisfaction rate.

Wonderful. Is there any occasion where you do fee obliged to conclude with a canned advertising statement - even when confronted with a "mistake" made by your employees.

I would suggest you check the attendance policies at the branch the OP got his visa and definitely the Bkk branch . Your staff may not be implementing your desired policies.

When meeting my gf at the bkk office and talked with several visa students on several occasions. I could tell you privately the actual policy as of 5 months ago.

[Kerryd]

That info is not completely correct for most people that get visa exempt entries all that is needed is passport validity equal for the length of stay allowed. See: http://www.staralliance.com/en/services/visa-and-health/

But if making a trip to a ASEAN country you will need 6 months passport validity to enter.

So, when it comes to visa requirements (i.e. six month validity of a passport), who is most likely to have the correct information? Star Alliance or the Ministry of Foreign Affairs? My bet is on the one that makes the rules.

David

If you look at the info by going to the website you will notice it is from a IATA database. The IATA gets their info from the Thai government. They don't make up the rules.

Many people have reported that they entered the country with less than 6 months passport validity.

I was denied boarding for a flight from Canada to Thailand in 2010 because when we would have arrived my passport would have been 1 day under the 6 month limit. The airline wasn't going to take the risk that I might be denied entry and then they'd be responsible for flying me back (at their expense). I knew I was close and had timed my trip so that I would arrive in Bangkok on the "180th" day. My plan was to go to the Embassy the next morning and apply for a new passport. Apparently I had forgotten about the International Date Line and even though the scheduled arrival time was like 2 or 3:00 in the morning, they wouldn't give me a boarding pass.

One of my tertiary responsibilities currently is arranging flights for our guys to/from Kandahar. The booking system we have to use won't even allow us to book a ticket at all if the passenger's passport has less than 6 months validity remaining. Trying to explain to people that they have to renew their passports when they are home, despite them having 9 months remaining is a pain. "Yes, your passport expires in 9 months. Then you come back and have less than 8 months validity. Then by the time your next rotation comes up, you'll have less than 6 months and will be stuck in Kandahar."

I think the airlines are supposed to check validity dates at check-in, just to prevent themselves from ending up in a situation where they have to fly someone back at their own expense. Different story though when entering the country by other means (i.e. you fly into Thailand with 7 months remaining on your passport, then 3 months later make a border run). If the IOs at the border are not that vigilant I could see people getting through with under 6 months of validity remaining.

I'd say that anyone who is able to get into the country while having less than 6 months remaining on their passports got really lucky. I'd rather not tempt fate myself or one day you're likely to find yourself stranded on the wrong side of the border (and you won't have planned for it, so you will end up doubly screwed) !

[jspill]

Cliffnotes: someone doesn't have 20k cash to hand for one IO to be content with, many speculations get made, thread runs to 900 posts.

[JohnnyBKK]

That is correct, they should not but a mistake was obviously made. It is not common. Also to put things in perspective, it was the very first such case. Walen School is trying our very best to take good care of our valued customers. We have at least 90-95% student satisfaction rate.

Wonderful. Is there any occasion where you do fee obliged to conclude with a canned advertising statement - even when confronted with a "mistake" made by your employees.

I would suggest you check the attendance policies at the branch the OP got his visa and definitely the Bkk branch . Your staff may not be implementing your desired policies.

When meeting my gf at the bkk office and talked with several visa students on several occasions. I could tell you privately the actual policy as of 5 months ago.

Actually i can tell you that everyone can get extensions without attending classes at every language school that i asked. It's normal, they will even do the extensions for you in some schools in Hua Hin, you don't even need to go to the immigration.

I know at least 5 persons on ED visas who never attended any classes, some of them don't even bother going to the immigration for the extension, it's all done by the school (Hua Hin Schools).

If you ask every student to attend classes they will NEVER pay for an ED visa unless they want to learn thai, and not many of the ED visa holders want to learn thai, it's been promoted as a way to stay in Thailand, not as a way to learn thai.

[Robert24]

Sorry, didnt see that, where was it, only read the previous post..

Correct our French Pierre abused the system and now claims some sort of right to be here.

Correct its nothing to do with the Thais its about yet another Digital Pikey being busted and cant accept responsibility for its actions.

Yet another whinging farang brought up by the Nanny State where its always someones elses fault.

Well done Thailand, get the detritus farang out, clean the place up.

@rgs2001uk:

I think your comments are a bit harsh to be fair. We don't know the full picture in detail, but bottom line is that the guy is a resident in Thailand with a child, wasn't allowed back into Thailand for the reasons mentioned. He couldn't even go to his residence to pick up a few items. He had to fly back to France, he needs to get a new passport, apply for a new visa and think about how he can come back. If someone has the right to whinge a little bit than I think it's him. To call him a detritus farang to get rid off to clean up Thailand is not really appropriate. For you to conclude he was brought up by the Nanny state etc is very judgmental.

I don't know him, so I reserve any judgment about him. I think it is good he shared his story, I probably wouldn't have done it at his place because I'd be too embarrassed.

[rgs2001uk]

Sorry, didnt see that, where was it, only read the previous post..

Correct our French Pierre abused the system and now claims some sort of right to be here.

Correct its nothing to do with the Thais its about yet another Digital Pikey being busted and cant accept responsibility for its actions.

Yet another whinging farang brought up by the Nanny State where its always someones elses fault.

Well done Thailand, get the detritus farang out, clean the place up.

@rgs2001uk:

I think your comments are a bit harsh to be fair. We don't know the full picture in detail, but bottom line is that the guy is a resident in Thailand with a child, wasn't allowed back into Thailand for the reasons mentioned. He couldn't even go to his residence to pick up a few items. He had to fly back to France, he needs to get a new passport, apply for a new visa and think about how he can come back. If someone has the right to whinge a little bit than I think it's him. To call him a detritus farang to get rid off to clean up Thailand is not really appropriate. For you to conclude he was brought up by the Nanny state etc is very judgmental.

I don't know him, so I reserve any judgment about him. I think it is good he shared his story, I probably wouldn't have done it at his place because I'd be too embarrassed.

Read some of his previous posts.

Read them yet?

If not please read, then get back to me.

[paz]

Read some of his previous posts.

Read them yet?

If not please read, then get back to me.

Hey WhateverUK

You started mocking nationality and insulting the next person for no reason. Then someboy told you how stupid is that and you still have attitude

Edited December 5, 2014 by paz

[stevenl]

That info is not completely correct for most people that get visa exempt entries all that is needed is passport validity equal for the length of stay allowed. See: http://www.staralliance.com/en/services/visa-and-health/

But if making a trip to a ASEAN country you will need 6 months passport validity to enter.

So, when it comes to visa requirements (i.e. six month validity of a passport), who is most likely to have the correct information? Star Alliance or the Ministry of Foreign Affairs? My bet is on the one that makes the rules.

David

If you look at the info by going to the website you will notice it is from a IATA database. The IATA gets their info from the Thai government. They don't make up the rules.

Many people have reported that they entered the country with less than 6 months passport validity.

I was denied boarding for a flight from Canada to Thailand in 2010 because when we would have arrived my passport would have been 1 day under the 6 month limit. The airline wasn't going to take the risk that I might be denied entry and then they'd be responsible for flying me back (at their expense). I knew I was close and had timed my trip so that I would arrive in Bangkok on the "180th" day. My plan was to go to the Embassy the next morning and apply for a new passport. Apparently I had forgotten about the International Date Line and even though the scheduled arrival time was like 2 or 3:00 in the morning, they wouldn't give me a boarding pass.

One of my tertiary responsibilities currently is arranging flights for our guys to/from Kandahar. The booking system we have to use won't even allow us to book a ticket at all if the passenger's passport has less than 6 months validity remaining. Trying to explain to people that they have to renew their passports when they are home, despite them having 9 months remaining is a pain. "Yes, your passport expires in 9 months. Then you come back and have less than 8 months validity. Then by the time your next rotation comes up, you'll have less than 6 months and will be stuck in Kandahar."

I think the airlines are supposed to check validity dates at check-in, just to prevent themselves from ending up in a situation where they have to fly someone back at their own expense. Different story though when entering the country by other means (i.e. you fly into Thailand with 7 months remaining on your passport, then 3 months later make a border run). If the IOs at the border are not that vigilant I could see people getting through with under 6 months of validity remaining.

I'd say that anyone who is able to get into the country while having less than 6 months remaining on their passports got really lucky. I'd rather not tempt fate myself or one day you're likely to find yourself stranded on the wrong side of the border (and you won't have planned for it, so you will end up doubly screwed) !

Did you check the airline policy? Quite often they demand 6 months passport validity, irrespective of the country's demands.

Thailand foes not require 6 months passport validity, so getting in with less is really not lucky

Edited December 5, 2014 by stevenl