Trove of ancient artefacts may include rare imports

[Lite Beer]

PONGPAT 'S CASE
Trove of ancient artefacts may include rare imports
The Nation

Former Royal guard Nattapon Akarapong-preecha (white T-shirt) and five other suspects are brought to Phra Khanong Court yesterday to seek permission to detain them.

BANGKOK: -- AMONG NUMEROUS ARTEFACTS found in the alleged secret treasure of police crime-buster Lt-General Pongpat Chayaphan are what appear to be an ancient deity image and many centuries-old Buddha images.

Fine Arts Department (FAD) director-general Bowornwej Rungrujee said yesterday that many of the statues and images were possibly brought to Thailand from a neighbouring country, as the department inventory showed that the same locally made items were all at their original places or museums.

He said the verification and authentication process of the approximately 30,000 items would begin on Monday and was expected to take about two months.

Private collectors were forbidden from owning many of the items, he said, adding that violators faced a maximum five-year prison term and/or a maximum fine of Bt500,000.

Requests to inspect the items to see if they had been stolen can be made at the FAD's office at the National Museum.

Certain items, if found to be authentic, might be returned their countries of origin.

Bowornwej said the items would be arranged in categories and protected by
various laws.

In the meantime, he said the items with less value would be kept at the FAD's warehouse in Pathum Thani, while items with high value would be held by the Metropolitan Police Bureau. They would be sorted according to their material, era or the year of their production, and paintings.

Bowornwej said FAD experts would be aided in the verification and authentication process by the Anti-Money Laundering Office, police and soldiers, all of whom would be issued ad hoc identity cards to discourage stealing and make tracing items easier if they were lost.

Police and soldiers yesterday raided an antique shop off Chaeng Wattana Road in northern Bangkok and seized a number of items suspected of being bought from Pongpat, the former Central Investigation Bureau chief.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Trove-of-ancient-artefacts-may-include-rare-import-30248825.html

-- The Nation 2014-11-29

[EyesWideOpen]

The scope of all these artifacts is interesting. Either Pongpat dreamed of having

his own museum, or this is part of some complex money laundering scheme.

[ezzra]

This is what happened when you have money coming out every orifices of your body and it's become

a problem where to house it, Midas curse I guess, except that Midas was greedy, this Pongpat guy

was greedy and and stupid to think that this can go on forever and no one will know...

[yellowboat]

"Certain items, if found to be authentic, might be returned their countries of origin".

"Might" rather worrisome.

[FangFerang]

"Certain items, if found to be authentic, might be returned their countries of origin," emphasis mine.

Might? MIGHT?

In two months we will read "There is a report that one or more criminals broke into the evidence lockers and removed foreign assets. An investigation into the missing items has been launched, but initial inquiries seem to indicate the inventory was at fault and the items were never in the possession of the perpetrators or police. Apologies cannot be tendered to the respective ASEAN countries' losses of Cultural Assets, since nothing that was ever not stolen could not have been confiscated. Subsequently, the photographs of the items in question that were widely publicized at the time of the arrests, have gone missing or been redacted. The police suspect the missing photos are wherever missing CCTV footage typically goes."

Edited November 29, 2014 by FangFerang

[RustBucket]

I can see all this stuff being funnelled of eventually.

Pity really, they could have sold it all off and use the money to build a long term prison just for corrupt police and civil servants.

[TheFishman1]

Thailand won't change everything is about money it's business as usual Police here is just business nobody really think this will change

[meatboy]

saw it all on the news yesterday,how he came by them is mind bogling.i dont think you could put a price on it all.

[AGareth2]

I have to say the man has good taste

[zaZa9]

I think they are saying that some of this stuff could be fakes .

"Fine Arts Department (FAD) director-general Bowornwej Rungrujee said yesterday that many of the statues and images were possibly brought to Thailand from a neighbouring country, as the department inventory showed that the same locally made items were all at their original places or museums."

Would it be beyond the realms of this supreme scammer to also be moving the occassional forgery , at millions , on the black market?

[jaidam]

The payment for illegal activities in amulets and artifacts is not entirely without precedent. Was there not a certain rotund red politician that was found to have a house crammed full of priceless artifacts, after a brutal terror campaign? I'm just surprised that Pongpat did not claim that a truck carrying amulets lost all 4 wheels in front of Pongpat's house so the amulets just came into his possession. Although this sounds like unbelievable horse pucky, this was a perfect excuse that did not raise any suspicion at the time.

[SOTIRIOS]

This is what happened when you have money coming out every orifices of your body and it's become

a problem where to house it, Midas curse I guess, except that Midas was greedy, this Pongpat guy

was greedy and and stupid to think that this can go on forever and no one will know...

........swimming in corruption with the ousted government....not hard to see why he thought it could go on forever...

....when a government rapes a country of its rice stockpile...which is the backbone of the agricultural economy....

....the message to 'like ilk' is.......do as you please.....

[bangrak]

I think they are saying that some of this stuff could be fakes .

"Fine Arts Department (FAD) director-general Bowornwej Rungrujee said yesterday that many of the statues and images were possibly brought to Thailand from a neighbouring country, as the department inventory showed that the same locally made items were all at their original places or museums."

Would it be beyond the realms of this supreme scammer to also be moving the occassional forgery , at millions , on the black market?

Nothing being what it seems here, it could be the bandit is holding the originals, and it are copies which have been 'installed' instead in the Wats, museums, etc., maybe interesting for the FAD to have a look at it from that angle, or do they too fear some loss-of-face to avoid doing it...?

[Lite Beer]

Thai authorities further interrogate ex-CIB chief
By Digital Content

BANGKOK, Nov 29 -- Thai police investigators early Saturday interrogated former Central Investigation Bureau chief Pol Lt Gen Pongpat Chayaphan accused of several charges including lese majeste before sending him to detention at Bangkok Remand Prison.

Looking visibly pale and weak, Gen Pongpat has been denied bail for temporary release as police fear that he might use his influence as a senior police officer to interfere with evidence and witnesses.

Police said they would ask the Criminal court to permit holding him for a second 12-day detention after the first detention expires on Thursday.

According to Thai law, police can detain a suspect for a maximum of seven rounds with each round comprising 12 days.

Police said that Gen Pongpat and his deputy Pol Maj Gen Kowit Wongrungroj admitted guilt during the investigation.

To date, police have arrested 17 out of 22 suspects. Two of them have been released on bail.

Police said they are seeking five others who are still at large.

Police have collected large amounts of cash, rare artifacts, antique Buddha images and amulets, and gold in the possession of Gen Pongpat and other suspects as evidence. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2014-11-29

[NeilSA1]

Surely there is enough evidence existing to warrant stripping this officer of his rank, especially if the police are worried that he may be able to intimidate witnesses and tamper with evidence ?

[HooHaa]

neighboring country?

so he has half of angkor in the basement

[Mudcrab]

"Certain items, if found to be authentic, might be returned their countries of origin," emphasis mine.

Might? MIGHT?

In two months we will read "There is a report that one or more criminals broke into the evidence lockers and removed foreign assets. An investigation into the missing items has been launched, but initial inquiries seem to indicate the inventory was at fault and the items were never in the possession of the perpetrators or police. Apologies cannot be tendered to the respective ASEAN countries' losses of Cultural Assets, since nothing that was ever not stolen could not have been confiscated. Subsequently, the photographs of the items in question that were widely publicized at the time of the arrests, have gone missing or been redacted. The police suspect the missing photos are wherever missing CCTV footage typically goes."

With a reported 30,000 items found, those missing them can't be too concerned.

[Nuddy]

I thought he married a HiSo and inherited it all?

[SinCityGr8One]

Reading the news daily about how far and wide the corruption investigation in regards to Lt. General Pongpat Chayaphan is going, it does appear to be practically endless. The General's corrupt operation brings to my mind the infamous character Gordon Gekko, portrayed by Michael Douglas in the movie "Wall Street". I think these two quotes from the movie are quite appropriate for the General's behaviour who must have felt He was "Untouchable":

"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind".

It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a zero sum game, somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply transferred from one perception to another.

In reality, Greed is NO good and those that partake in it should enjoy it while it lasts, because in the end, the result is hard time behind prison walls.

[Vagabond1]

"Certain items, if found to be authentic, might be returned their countries of origin".

"Might" rather worrisome.

Elgin marbles, anyone?

[In Search of Space]

The scope of all these artifacts is interesting. Either Pongpat dreamed of having

his own museum, or this is part of some complex money laundering scheme.

He was planning to have a museum to protect Thai culture and heritage for the good of the people

[surangw]

someone peeled off the made in china stickers

[BirdsandBooze]

This is what happened when you have money coming out every orifices of your body and it's become

a problem where to house it, Midas curse I guess, except that Midas was greedy, this Pongpat guy

was greedy and and stupid to think that this can go on forever and no one will know...

........swimming in corruption with the ousted government....not hard to see why he thought it could go on forever...

....when a government rapes a country of its rice stockpile...which is the backbone of the agricultural economy....

....the message to 'like ilk' is.......do as you please.....

He's actually one of the other colour.

[Stargeezr]

This former CIB bureau chief, and the others arrested are in big trouble now.

My Thai relatives figure that some of them will either get lengthy jail time.

One relative thinks that if the crimes are serious enough, and they are found

with enough restricted items, as well as all that money, a few may even get the

maximum sentence. The former CIB chief is just that, Former!, his power is gone

already, and his threats are mute. He will be lucky if he only spends time in jail. Best case

scenario is Bye. Bye chiefy.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Stargrazer9889

[metisdead]

Please read the following very carefully:

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[maidee]

you think they would find the blue diamand those saudis are looking for since 30 years ????

[taichiplanet]

it is well known that greed and worship of Buddha images are central precepts of Buddhism; sorry, couldn't find a sarcastic smiley.

as some of the other posters have indicated, it also took me a while to put 2 and 2 together. here is a link to another TV news post that should help others

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780218-thailand-live-saturday-29-nov-2014/?p=8737776

Edited November 30, 2014 by taichiplanet

[Acharn]

Surely there is enough evidence existing to warrant stripping this officer of his rank, especially if the police are worried that he may be able to intimidate witnesses and tamper with evidence ?

It doesn't really work that way. Even if he was stripped of his active duty rank he would retain influence. It might be diminished, but some would remain. Do you think General Prem lost his influence with the Armed Forces after he retired? The way it works (and this is true in the U.S. as well) is that as you go through life you develop a network of friends and allies. In Thailand these ties are very strong, especially among people of Chinese ancestry. If you stay loyal to an old friend who has stumbled into a bad patch you are admired. If your friend has done something illegal it doesn't matter, you still must support him in any way you can, even if it means your own destruction. At least that's the ideal. One reaon Thaksin is so hated is because he came from a different network and displaced the previous group. Now they're on top again and clearing out the unwanted competition, but both groups are so powerful neither one can win long-term, so his ability to intimidate witnesses isn't diminished by currently being in front of the court. There's an old Thai saying, "When the water is high, the fish eat the ants; when the water drops, the ants eat the fish."

Also, he can't be stripped of his rank until he has actually been convicted. I guess he could be if he was less influential, but in his case the laws must be followed.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Acharn

[Nuddy]

Look here, if anything there is not his then he only took it home to stop other people from taking it home.

[greenchair]

Some very dark times ahead for thailand ,I suspect