Palestinian woman stabs Israeli, shot by security forces

[Jingthing]

Well, this incident in itself is relatively minor but recently read that currently that the consensus in both Israel and the West Bank is that a new intifada is not in fact happening or likely to happen in the immediate future. The only reason a minor incident like this made much news is that it is seen in context of the recent flareups.

[dexterm]

It begs the question : why was the Jewish colonist and occupier trespassing in the first place? The woman was exercising her right of self defense.

And I suppose you would also condone Aboriginals in Australia, First Nation members in Canada, Tibetans, or Singhalese to act in the same manner against their non-indigenous neighbors? But of course such examples are not Jews and thus accorded a different status.

The problem is that Zionists have tried to do in the 20^th and 21^st centuries what Europeans got away with doing in the 18^th and 19^th centuries....colonize a country where other people were already living. But the whole world is watching this time through advanced media.

The Chinese are doing the same in Xinjiang and Tibet and I applaud the struggle against the Han. There are parallels with Israel: the Han Chinese could have the Uyghurs and Tibetans eating out of their hands if they simply respected their religion, culture and land rights, without swamping them economically.

The armed struggle is over for Aborigines, First Nation Canadians and Native Americans, although they are now winning the battles in the courts over land rights.

We expect higher standards from Israel because they regard themselves as a developed civilized democracy with many shared European and N American values. At the moment they are drifting towards a right wing religious fanatic pariah apartheid state.

I have traveled with, climbed with and shared Shabbat with many wonderfully kind and humane Israelis. I’d like to see a better future for them and their Palestinian neighbors. That’s why I criticize the current regime in Tel Aviv. I think the Israelis hold most of the cards, and are intelligent enough to listen to reason ultimately.

Edited December 2, 2014 by dexterm

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

Sure whe was just acting in self-defence. In self-defence towards the racist terrorists Zionists who are stealing her land and killing her people.

[JDGRUEN]

Neversure ...you made the very basic junior lawyer's mistake of asking a question

Please define Palestine in 1890. Can you post a link to a map? Thank you.

...to which you did not know the answer. ..you shudda googled first

There are heaps more 19th and 20th century maps with the word "Palestine" clearly printed on them. It's been around a lot longer than Israel.

Region ... not country. Parts of Jordan, Syria and Egypt are/were in those early regional outlines. And as it happens are the countries that should have provided land to the newly self named Palestinians... but didn't ...Having a 'homeless' people on the door steps of Israel provides a convenient thorn in the side to Israel... A thorn made by Jordan, Syria and Egypt and funded by oil rich mid east countries in the hopes of annihilating Israel ... Palestinian probably means 'Pawn' in Arabic.

[Loles]

And thousands of Israeli shot dead thousands of Palestinians, and .... nothing happened to them.

[dexterm]

Neversure ...you made the very basic junior lawyer's mistake of asking a question

Please define Palestine in 1890. Can you post a link to a map? Thank you.

...to which you did not know the answer. ..you shudda googled first

There are heaps more 19th and 20th century maps with the word "Palestine" clearly printed on them. It's been around a lot longer than Israel.

Region ... not country. Parts of Jordan, Syria and Egypt are/were in those early regional outlines. And as it happens are the countries that should have provided land to the newly self named Palestinians... but didn't ...Having a 'homeless' people on the door steps of Israel provides a convenient thorn in the side to Israel... A thorn made by Jordan, Syria and Egypt and funded by oil rich mid east countries in the hopes of annihilating Israel ... Palestinian probably means 'Pawn' in Arabic.

What’s in a name...country, state, region, nation?

Believers in Judaism are only one of many peoples who have lived in Palestine. Where is Israel’s title deed after a 2,000 year lapse of the lease?

The point is there were already people living there..96% non Jews.. when the Zionists starting arriving in larger numbers from 1896 onwards, whom the Jewish immigrants by fair means and foul have driven out to become refugees.

That’s the basic injustice I object to. And there wont be peace until that injustice is addressed.

The OP stabbing incident is just one symptom of the whole malaise.

Edited December 2, 2014 by dexterm

[cup-O-coffee]

If any one ever asked why isn't there a peace in the world, all he has to do is read some of the

posing in these forum, I mean, if you can't even have a rational and educated discussions about the

middle east without it being laced with loathing animosity and hostilities than all is really lost..

:

I would love to have a rationale and educated discussion as to why a woman felt compelled to attack another person with a knife, and was shot for it.

It isn't rational to say that anyone is "compelled" to attack someone with a knife unless she was in immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury from the person she attacked .

What is rational is to say that she made a choice to attack someone with a knife. And, guess who the only one is who can control the choices she makes.

Hint: That would be her.

You are correct in merely one instance of the many variables which contribute to compelling someone doing something, whether in thought or deed. These many variables can be right in front of one, or right at the front of their consciousness, blocking out all other thought; hence compelling (or triggering) an immediate response, or prior to it, compelling an idea, which forms into a habitual thought, which then forms into a belief and then a belief system.

You are also correct in that the only one who can control the choices which one makes is the one, but were I to take a pair of pliers and clamp them on to your testicles and begin applying pressure, then I assure you that your ability to make clear choices would be intensely fueled by anger and raw emotion.

Hint: That would be the one, who is heavily influenced by being the true victim here of the others human rights violations and war crimes.

Edited December 2, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[cup-O-coffee]

If any one ever asked why isn't there a peace in the world, all he has to do is read some of the

posing in these forum, I mean, if you can't even have a rational and educated discussions about the

middle east without it being laced with loathing animosity and hostilities than all is really lost..

:

I would love to have a rationale and educated discussion as to why a woman felt compelled to attack another person with a knife, and was shot for it.

It isn't rational to say that anyone is "compelled" to attack someone with a knife unless she was in immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury from the person she attacked .

What is rational is to say that she made a choice to attack someone with a knife. And, guess who the only one is who can control the choices she makes.

Hint: That would be her.

That women, being brain washed and indoctrinated my some twisted imam of a just Hamas recruiter

knew ver well that by attacking people with a weapon she is risking being shot and killed,

with so many jittery soldiers around with nervous fingers on the trigger, and by the grace of her Allah

she was wended and NOT SHOT DEAD...

if you carry an attack with a weapon, expect to get attacked back with a weapon, not roses...

Attacking the woman's character with ad hominems now, eh? How do you know that woman has been brain washed and indoctrinated by some twisted imam of a just Hamas recruiter? I would like to know how you know that. Are you clairvoyant also? Is that a Jew thing? I am jealous.

Actually, you have made a beautiful point here, and skipped right over it in your flight towards... towards... well, I am sure that I do not know what it is you are flying towards outside of your script. But I digress.

The beautiful point you have made, and skipped over, is that, Yes! Indeed... she probably did (in all likelihood) know full well the consequences of her actions. I believe I even said that already, "In expressing my views, I do not think that the woman was unaware of the consequences for her actions, and to me that should be a point of interest.". And now you are saying this as well.

The point at where we both separate on this is that you leave it at that, with some utterly sick implication about the graces of Allah and some jittery soldiers (oh dear, those poor poor dears). I'll get to my point in a moment, but I would like to address why I said "sick". You do not know this woman, or anything about her other than the fact that she is a (how did all of you Jews on this thread implicate her) a Jew hater reincarnated from the 1930's.

Perhaps she is avenging a very legitimate murder of someone she loved and truly cared for? Perhaps she was out of her mind with misery and sorry, fueled by the completely understandable, pure hatred of oppressors who daily spit on her and her children, deny medical coverage, throw rocks and feces and bags of urine through her broken windows, slay her livestock, vandalize her possessions and place graffiti all around her neighborhood to remind her of the utterly sick and twisted character that a lot of Israeli Jew settlers hold for her people. Perhaps a lot of things that (to all intentions stated herein) you all would not seem to understand or even have one iota of compassion.

Now I know I make you all mad enough to wish I were banned, but can you take your anger and increase it exponentially a thousandfold, and give the woman a little understanding? How do you think she feels... I mean really?

Nah! I didn't think so. But I digress yet again...

The point I have been making is that we need to go further than ignorant speculation and those things our leaders and people have indoctrinated us with and be brave enough to ask why she may have done this. That is where you left off. You had for a brief instance a good thing going, and then dropped that really good thing in the street of tears. Or, you had me fooled, and I am merely interpreting a kind of goodness in your heart. Which is it?

[arjunadawn]

"A police spokeswoman said the Palestinian woman who carried out the attack was shot."

Getting shot is pretty much all these terrorists accomplish with their attacks. They get a lot more of their own people killed than those they hate.

This is a central strategy by Hamas, particularly. "We love death like Israeli's love life." ("We desire death more than you desire life").

A cursory visit to internet archives reveals this mentality a core component of Palestinian strategy. How it is executed is far more insidious than the actual act. This is multi-generational training that has children inculcated in youth to seek death as a slave of Al Lah, as the strategy of the "ruling class" in the local arab population necessarily reflects the will of Al Lah. It escapes me how the international community defends a culture that can inculcate such horror into their populace, into society, and finally into the international community. After defending the sorry plight of Palestinians (and it is) this will later be the fruit they offer the future. It can only be so.

[cup-O-coffee]

"A police spokeswoman said the Palestinian woman who carried out the attack was shot."

Getting shot is pretty much all these terrorists accomplish with their attacks. They get a lot more of their own people killed than those they hate.

This is a central strategy by Hamas, particularly. "We love death like Israeli's love life." ("We desire death more than you desire life").

A cursory visit to internet archives reveals this mentality a core component of Palestinian strategy. How it is executed is far more insidious than the actual act. This is multi-generational training that has children inculcated in youth to seek death as a slave of Al Lah, as the strategy of the "ruling class" in the local arab population necessarily reflects the will of Al Lah. It escapes me how the international community defends a culture that can inculcate such horror into their populace, into society, and finally into the international community. After defending the sorry plight of Palestinians (and it is) this will later be the fruit they offer the future. It can only be so.

Good point, except for several obstructions along the way...

What are you doing now and offering now, and what have you done and offered before... as an alternative? What have you offered and given as an alternative? No no no, not what have you said and are saying, but what are you doing now and offering, and what have you done before and offered?

So whilst you are thinking up an answer to those legitimate queries, I will submit that perhaps this way of life for them is not something they would have chosen had they not been handed your interpretation of a Jewish solution, yes? Is that possible or not?

And in support of this, I would like to pint out that Google has many many quotes of Israeli Jew leaders, politicians, rabbis, and the lot, who have (on public record) stated far worse things, and at the moment cannot refute merely by the behavior in the current situation.

And moreover, it is indeed highly possible, and quite easy to make someone your enemy, if for nothing more to use their reaction as a means to fuel your own sickness. It is actually very easy to do, and more easy to maintain as the grudges stack up in extremely (EXTREMELY) uneven tallies.

I did not bother to view the videos. I already know that when someone has their backs to the wall, and there are no other options, and no one is listening because no one can hear them over the cries of the "victims", and the only alternatives lead to slavery and being stamped out of existence (I believe one of Israels Prime Ministers said something like that), then I know that it should come as no surprise that people will eventually resort to this kind of noble (in an odd manner) thinking.

What these people are really saying... to me... is this: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country."

Nathan Hale (June 6, 1755 – September 22, 1776) was a soldier for the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. He volunteered for an intelligence-gathering mission in New York City but was captured by the British and executed. He is probably best remembered for his purported last words before being hanged: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." Hale has long been considered an American hero and, in 1985, he was officially designated the state hero of Connecticut.

And you might want to consider that these "terrorists" aren't attacking Holland or Wales, or Paraguay or even Chile. They are attacking the attackers. That gives me some indication that they aren't as "inculcated" as you would like me to believe, in order to keep your "fear-mongering" alive and well.

That tells me that they are... human. Just like you and just like me.

Edited December 2, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[Ulysses G.]

What these people are really saying... to me... is this: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country."

Nathan Hale

What a load of crap. Nathan Hale was not committing suicide and he was not attacking innocent civilians. He was a soldier who was captured and executed while on a mission reporting on enemy troop movements.

[arjunadawn]

"A police spokeswoman said the Palestinian woman who carried out the attack was shot."

Getting shot is pretty much all these terrorists accomplish with their attacks. They get a lot more of their own people killed than those they hate.

This is a central strategy by Hamas, particularly. "We love death like Israeli's love life." ("We desire death more than you desire life").

A cursory visit to internet archives reveals this mentality a core component of Palestinian strategy. How it is executed is far more insidious than the actual act. This is multi-generational training that has children inculcated in youth to seek death as a slave of Al Lah, as the strategy of the "ruling class" in the local arab population necessarily reflects the will of Al Lah. It escapes me how the international community defends a culture that can inculcate such horror into their populace, into society, and finally into the international community. After defending the sorry plight of Palestinians (and it is) this will later be the fruit they offer the future. It can only be so.

Good point, except for several obstructions along the way...

What are you doing now and offering now, and what have you done and offered before... as an alternative? What have you offered and given as an alternative? No no no, not what have you said and are saying, but what are you doing now and offering, and what have you done before and offered?

So whilst you are thinking up an answer to those legitimate queries, I will submit that perhaps this way of life for them is not something they would have chosen had they not been handed your interpretation of a Jewish solution, yes? Is that possible or not?

And in support of this, I would like to pint out that Google has many many quotes of Israeli Jew leaders, politicians, rabbis, and the lot, who have (on public record) stated far worse things, and at the moment cannot refute merely by the behavior in the current situation.

And moreover, it is indeed highly possible, and quite easy to make someone your enemy, if for nothing more to use their reaction as a means to fuel your own sickness. It is actually very easy to do, and more easy to maintain as the grudges stack up in extremely (EXTREMELY) uneven tallies.

I did not bother to view the videos. I already know that when someone has their backs to the wall, and there are no other options, and no one is listening because no one can hear them over the cries of the "victims", and the only alternatives lead to slavery and being stamped out of existence (I believe one of Israels Prime Ministers said something like that), then I know that it should come as no surprise that people will eventually resort to this kind of noble (in an odd manner) thinking.

What these people are really saying... to me... is this: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country."

Nathan Hale (June 6, 1755 – September 22, 1776) was a soldier for the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. He volunteered for an intelligence-gathering mission in New York City but was captured by the British and executed. He is probably best remembered for his purported last words before being hanged: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." Hale has long been considered an American hero and, in 1985, he was officially designated the state hero of Connecticut.

And you might want to consider that these "terrorists" aren't attacking Holland or Wales, or Paraguay or even Chile. They are attacking the attackers. That gives me some indication that they aren't as "inculcated" as you would like me to believe, in order to keep your "fear-mongering" alive and well.

That tells me that they are... human. Just like you and just like me.

It is a curious presumption you have, that one needs to actively be involved in acting out his opinion in some manner in order for it to be a valid point of view. If this were true there would be no need for forums to discuss things because for the most part the world lives vicariously through others and notes on forums how these observations affect them, and their take on it. Having said this, having spent the majority of my adult life amongst arabs and muslims working at this very level, addressing these very issues of religious terrorism and separatism, I have a very keen perspective on the topic I speak of. My opinions may be disputed but not my wherewithal to make them. Should you and I chat PM, you might agree.

I only choose to comment on the issue of the Palestinians because my strength lies here. I do not doubt at all that Israelis, Israeli radicals, or others, pose variously similar concerns. The fact remains, Israeli future security is predicated upon managing the arab populations around them and NOT war. Israel does not possess as an underlying moral imperative the duty to kill muslims, whether they hate them or not. This is the core pablum from which radical muslims entice the youth to war and death, Al Lah. You will rarely find a martyr declaring "Viva Palestine" or other such things. It will always be "Al Lah Akbar" etc. Why? Because this has little to do with land and State. The underlying issue is religion, the the "people of the book" being required to be oppressed and killed (Koran)!

I am traveling. Please allow me to give your post thought.

[Ulysses G.]

Attacking the woman's character with ad hominems now, eh? How do you know that woman has been brain washed and indoctrinated by some twisted imam of a just Hamas recruiter?

He was giving her the benefit of the doubt. She could just be a hateful, bigoted murderer with no Jihadist ideology.

[gamini]

"A police spokeswoman said the Palestinian woman who carried out the attack was shot."

Getting shot is pretty much all these terrorists accomplish with their attacks. They get a lot more of their own people killed than those they hate.

who would not hate people who forcefully occupy your country? I am sure. the French hated the German occupiers. These incidents would bever happen if Israel abided by the United Nations order to relinquish the territory they seized.

[cup-O-coffee]

What these people are really saying... to me... is this: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country."

Nathan Hale

What a load of crap. Nathan Hale was not committing suicide and he was not attacking innocent civilians. He was a soldier who was captured and executed while on a mission reporting on enemy troop movements.

Excuse me, UG, but I would rather stick to Palestinians doing what any ordinary man would do (such as Nathan Hale did) and, in their views, defend their country in the face of impossible odds.

Times are different, UG. Tear away the technology and science, and at the heart you will find human beings fighting for causes that they apparently feel quite strongly about. You've got to admit that much.

I don't expect any time soon that the Israelis will see lines of Palestinians marching to a drum and piccolo beat slowly towards the Great Wall of Israel. Things have changed, and hence, so have tactics. Tactics change as the enemy changes and so forth.

But the main point here (back to the OP) is that I feel that a woman was driven to desperation and madness by the incalculably inhuman treatment of either herself, the people she loved/s or both. The indignities can only go so far, so to speak, UG.

And to be technical and factual about it, UG, I would submit that stealing someone's land, degrading everything beloved to them and continually putting the heel to their necks, and then shooting them when they crack, would constitute provoking and attacking and then shooting an innocent civilian.

Times have changed, UG, but kick a man in his testicles in any period of history and everyone knows it is the history writers (a.k.a. media) will write his epitaph.

Do you think she could simply have been fed up and provoked, UG. Or do you think the things you actually say are true?

[Ulysses G.]

Do you think she could simply have been fed up and provoked

I think that she is a hateful, want-to-be murderer who targets innocent civilians. I could care less how she tries to justify it.

[Morch]

It begs the question : why was the Jewish colonist and occupier trespassing in the first place? The woman was exercising her right of self defense. Perhaps she should have asked him nicely to leave....as the Palestinians of Bilin near Ramallah did on Friday.And for their peaceful protest they got tear gassed and hit with rubber bullets.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=743367

It does not beg any question, really.

There is not much argument, outside of Israel, that the Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal (or actually, that most

are - the specific location would be a bit trickier if one wanted to get pedantic). That said, the woman in question was not, at

the time, under attack nor facing any immediate threat. I understand the need to defend and justify any act of violence done

by the side one supports, but do keep it real.

Asking the Israeli settlers to leave would probably do no good, of course. Then again, it does not seem like these sort of

attacks really achieve much, other than cementing the situation and even making it worse. The lack of a wide spread and

sustained passive resistance can be noted though.

The demonstrations near Bil'in are a regular occurrence. To claim that they are peaceful would be stretching the truth and

then some (not that the IDF response/treatment is). Even the link you posted contains photos of demonstrators seemingly

not that peaceful.

[Ulysses G.]

"A police spokeswoman said the Palestinian woman who carried out the attack was shot."

Getting shot is pretty much all these terrorists accomplish with their attacks. They get a lot more of their own people killed than those they hate.

These incidents would bever happen if Israel abided by the United Nations order to relinquish the territory they seized.

These incidents would have never happened if the Palestinians had accepted the UN solution in the first place and not declared war on Israel. The Palestinians lost that one and they have been losing ever since, due to their own pigheadedness. Actions have consequences.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

It begs the question : why was the Jewish colonist and occupier trespassing in the first place? The woman was exercising her right of self defense. Perhaps she should have asked him nicely to leave....as the Palestinians of Bilin near Ramallah did on Friday.And for their peaceful protest they got tear gassed and hit with rubber bullets.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=743367

JT recently asked about how things would be if Palestinians protested peacefully.

There's your answer, JT....they get shot at and tear-gassed.

I noticed that the bullets weren't rubber bullets, but rubber-coated steel bullets. Why bother with the rubber coat?

Yet again, making a general assumption based on not much.

The demonstrations in Bil'in are not always peaceful, doesn't seem (even from the link provided) that this one was as well.

There is active wide spread and sustained passive resistance effort among the Palestinians - which is a shame.

Rubber bullets is often used as a general term, when the actual bullets are rubber coated metal. This is not unique to Israel.

[cup-O-coffee]

"A police spokeswoman said the Palestinian woman who carried out the attack was shot."

Getting shot is pretty much all these terrorists accomplish with their attacks. They get a lot more of their own people killed than those they hate.

This is a central strategy by Hamas, particularly. "We love death like Israeli's love life." ("We desire death more than you desire life").

A cursory visit to internet archives reveals this mentality a core component of Palestinian strategy. How it is executed is far more insidious than the actual act. This is multi-generational training that has children inculcated in youth to seek death as a slave of Al Lah, as the strategy of the "ruling class" in the local arab population necessarily reflects the will of Al Lah. It escapes me how the international community defends a culture that can inculcate such horror into their populace, into society, and finally into the international community. After defending the sorry plight of Palestinians (and it is) this will later be the fruit they offer the future. It can only be so.

Good point, except for several obstructions along the way...

What are you doing now and offering now, and what have you done and offered before... as an alternative? What have you offered and given as an alternative? No no no, not what have you said and are saying, but what are you doing now and offering, and what have you done before and offered?

So whilst you are thinking up an answer to those legitimate queries, I will submit that perhaps this way of life for them is not something they would have chosen had they not been handed your interpretation of a Jewish solution, yes? Is that possible or not?

And in support of this, I would like to pint out that Google has many many quotes of Israeli Jew leaders, politicians, rabbis, and the lot, who have (on public record) stated far worse things, and at the moment cannot refute merely by the behavior in the current situation.

And moreover, it is indeed highly possible, and quite easy to make someone your enemy, if for nothing more to use their reaction as a means to fuel your own sickness. It is actually very easy to do, and more easy to maintain as the grudges stack up in extremely (EXTREMELY) uneven tallies.

I did not bother to view the videos. I already know that when someone has their backs to the wall, and there are no other options, and no one is listening because no one can hear them over the cries of the "victims", and the only alternatives lead to slavery and being stamped out of existence (I believe one of Israels Prime Ministers said something like that), then I know that it should come as no surprise that people will eventually resort to this kind of noble (in an odd manner) thinking.

What these people are really saying... to me... is this: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country."

Nathan Hale (June 6, 1755 – September 22, 1776) was a soldier for the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. He volunteered for an intelligence-gathering mission in New York City but was captured by the British and executed. He is probably best remembered for his purported last words before being hanged: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." Hale has long been considered an American hero and, in 1985, he was officially designated the state hero of Connecticut.

And you might want to consider that these "terrorists" aren't attacking Holland or Wales, or Paraguay or even Chile. They are attacking the attackers. That gives me some indication that they aren't as "inculcated" as you would like me to believe, in order to keep your "fear-mongering" alive and well.

That tells me that they are... human. Just like you and just like me.

It is a curious presumption you have, that one needs to actively be involved in acting out his opinion in some manner in order for it to be a valid point of view. If this were true there would be no need for forums to discuss things because for the most part the world lives vicariously through others and notes on forums how these observations affect them, and their take on it. Having said this, having spent the majority of my adult life amongst arabs and muslims working at this very level, addressing these very issues of religious terrorism and separatism, I have a very keen perspective on the topic I speak of. My opinions may be disputed but not my wherewithal to make them. Should you and I chat PM, you might agree.

I only choose to comment on the issue of the Palestinians because my strength lies here. I do not doubt at all that Israelis, Israeli radicals, or others, pose variously similar concerns. The fact remains, Israeli future security is predicated upon managing the arab populations around them and NOT war. Israel does not possess as an underlying moral imperative the duty to kill muslims, whether they hate them or not. This is the core pablum from which radical muslims entice the youth to war and death, Al Lah. You will rarely find a martyr declaring "Viva Palestine" or other such things. It will always be "Al Lah Akbar" etc. Why? Because this has little to do with land and State. The underlying issue is religion, the the "people of the book" being required to be oppressed and killed (Koran)!

I am traveling. Please allow me to give your post thought.

My strength lies plain and simple in knowing the simplistic forms of what is right and wrong; fair and unfair; intentional and unintentional, lies and honesty, deceitful and honorable, cunning and transparent, one-sided and an even playing field, etc. People and locations are incidental to this. These things I stated are inherent in all of us, and if we search within our hearts (if we have hearts) we don't need to go places and experience cultures and get caught up in the politics and flattering of it all. Those who do are simply more apt to feel the temptations to concede to the pressures of the almighty and powerful, or simply decide to stay in the comfort of their home and express on forums these simple truths. There is no shame in either.

When I speak like this, face to face, with people of many races and beliefs, and I have cause to respectfully disagree with something about their culture or religion or behaviors, I have only once, ever in my existence, ever experienced narcissistic outrage and vitriol by one people, and one people only: that would be Jews. Most of them concealed the fact that they are Jews until it came time to explode in that narcissistic outrage and vitriol, s if they expected to cow me into a state of fear and guilt. Moreover, I wanted to slap their teeth down their throat, or walk away. I am being honest here.

I have never been accused of being a racist except when this issue comes up and the "victims" are attending my words, or within ear-shot, or reading.

My list of peoples include the same as yours, yet perhaps not on any scale regarding importance in this world, or their station in life, but one never knows who one is talking to at the time, yes?

Another point: What difference does it make what people shout if you are not there to hear them shout it, or they are not angry enough at you to hunt you down and shout it at you?

I have never had that happen to me, clearly, but I find it interesting that some people seem to attract trouble no matter where they go and all throughout history. I always thought that was unfair, until I got in their sights and became the subject of their narcissistic outrage and vitriol.

Now if you can post something here to change my experiences and what I said, then more power to you. I am of an open mind for that. Thus far, I would never willingly volunteer any support for this crew as long as they hold the views that people like that woman are lower than a dog, as the implications would strongly suggest.

I enjoy your candor and grace.

[cup-O-coffee]

Do you think she could simply have been fed up and provoked

I think that she is a hateful, want-to-be murderer who targets innocent civilians. I could care less how she tries to justify it.

Thank you for being honest this once. Fair enough.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm pretty much always honest on here and my historical information is factual. I don't understand why someone would expose themselves as a liar, but many of the Israel-haters have done that repeatedly and posted fictional information which is easily disproved.

Accuracy is the twin brother of honesty; inaccuracy, of dishonesty.
-Nathaniel Hawthorne

Edited December 2, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

These incidents don't happen in a vacuum.

Perhaps she had had a previous encounter with one of the Israeli gun guards who terrorize Palestinians on a daily basis or a sadistic IDF soldier humiliating her at checkpoint that she needs to cross to move around in her own land..

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/11/israel-gun-guards-terrorise-east-jerusalem-2014112661245358505.html

Or perhaps she was upset with Jewish thugs who burn down mosques and schools.

Here's today's latest arson attack by the "price tag" gangs of Jewish settler thugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

Arab-Israeli school in Jerusalem 'set on fire' and walls sprayed with racist graffiti

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/arabisraeli-school-in-jerusalem-set-on-fire-with-walls-sprayed-with-racist-graffiti-9893941.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/max-rayne-hand-in-hand-school-arsonists-attack-jerusalem-school-where-jews-and-muslims-learn-side-by-side-9894475.html

Of course it did not happen in a vacuum.

She served time in an Israeli prison a few years back (3 months, according to local media).

But then again, if her attack did not happen in a vacuum, so was her being shot. Can't have it both ways.

It would seem that for some, this claim of "you need to see it in context", "things don't happen in a vacuum" holds true

when convenient. If memory serves, similar claims were raised to justify the recent attack on the elderly worshipers in

the synagogue, but was were rejected as outrageous and morally bankrupt when raised by the opposing side discussing

the shooting of the Palestinian boy in the Gaza border.

Supplying a few one-sided links do not necessarily make a valid point.

[arjunadawn]

This is a central strategy by Hamas, particularly. "We love death like Israeli's love life." ("We desire death more than you desire life").

A cursory visit to internet archives reveals this mentality a core component of Palestinian strategy. How it is executed is far more insidious than the actual act. This is multi-generational training that has children inculcated in youth to seek death as a slave of Al Lah, as the strategy of the "ruling class" in the local arab population necessarily reflects the will of Al Lah. It escapes me how the international community defends a culture that can inculcate such horror into their populace, into society, and finally into the international community. After defending the sorry plight of Palestinians (and it is) this will later be the fruit they offer the future. It can only be so.

Good point, except for several obstructions along the way...

What are you doing now and offering now, and what have you done and offered before... as an alternative? What have you offered and given as an alternative? No no no, not what have you said and are saying, but what are you doing now and offering, and what have you done before and offered?

So whilst you are thinking up an answer to those legitimate queries, I will submit that perhaps this way of life for them is not something they would have chosen had they not been handed your interpretation of a Jewish solution, yes? Is that possible or not?

And in support of this, I would like to pint out that Google has many many quotes of Israeli Jew leaders, politicians, rabbis, and the lot, who have (on public record) stated far worse things, and at the moment cannot refute merely by the behavior in the current situation.

And moreover, it is indeed highly possible, and quite easy to make someone your enemy, if for nothing more to use their reaction as a means to fuel your own sickness. It is actually very easy to do, and more easy to maintain as the grudges stack up in extremely (EXTREMELY) uneven tallies.

I did not bother to view the videos. I already know that when someone has their backs to the wall, and there are no other options, and no one is listening because no one can hear them over the cries of the "victims", and the only alternatives lead to slavery and being stamped out of existence (I believe one of Israels Prime Ministers said something like that), then I know that it should come as no surprise that people will eventually resort to this kind of noble (in an odd manner) thinking.

What these people are really saying... to me... is this: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country."

Nathan Hale (June 6, 1755 – September 22, 1776) was a soldier for the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. He volunteered for an intelligence-gathering mission in New York City but was captured by the British and executed. He is probably best remembered for his purported last words before being hanged: "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." Hale has long been considered an American hero and, in 1985, he was officially designated the state hero of Connecticut.

And you might want to consider that these "terrorists" aren't attacking Holland or Wales, or Paraguay or even Chile. They are attacking the attackers. That gives me some indication that they aren't as "inculcated" as you would like me to believe, in order to keep your "fear-mongering" alive and well.

That tells me that they are... human. Just like you and just like me.

It is a curious presumption you have, that one needs to actively be involved in acting out his opinion in some manner in order for it to be a valid point of view. If this were true there would be no need for forums to discuss things because for the most part the world lives vicariously through others and notes on forums how these observations affect them, and their take on it. Having said this, having spent the majority of my adult life amongst arabs and muslims working at this very level, addressing these very issues of religious terrorism and separatism, I have a very keen perspective on the topic I speak of. My opinions may be disputed but not my wherewithal to make them. Should you and I chat PM, you might agree.

I only choose to comment on the issue of the Palestinians because my strength lies here. I do not doubt at all that Israelis, Israeli radicals, or others, pose variously similar concerns. The fact remains, Israeli future security is predicated upon managing the arab populations around them and NOT war. Israel does not possess as an underlying moral imperative the duty to kill muslims, whether they hate them or not. This is the core pablum from which radical muslims entice the youth to war and death, Al Lah. You will rarely find a martyr declaring "Viva Palestine" or other such things. It will always be "Al Lah Akbar" etc. Why? Because this has little to do with land and State. The underlying issue is religion, the the "people of the book" being required to be oppressed and killed (Koran)!

I am traveling. Please allow me to give your post thought.

My strength lies plain and simple in knowing the simplistic forms of what is right and wrong; fair and unfair; intentional and unintentional, lies and honesty, deceitful and honorable, cunning and transparent, one-sided and an even playing field, etc. People and locations are incidental to this. These things I stated are inherent in all of us, and if we search within our hearts (if we have hearts) we don't need to go places and experience cultures and get caught up in the politics and flattering of it all. Those who do are simply more apt to feel the temptations to concede to the pressures of the almighty and powerful, or simply decide to stay in the comfort of their home and express on forums these simple truths. There is no shame in either.

When I speak like this, face to face, with people of many races and beliefs, and I have cause to respectfully disagree with something about their culture or religion or behaviors, I have only once, ever in my existence, ever experienced narcissistic outrage and vitriol by one people, and one people only: that would be Jews. Most of them concealed the fact that they are Jews until it came time to explode in that narcissistic outrage and vitriol, s if they expected to cow me into a state of fear and guilt. Moreover, I wanted to slap their teeth down their throat, or walk away. I am being honest here.

I have never been accused of being a racist except when this issue comes up and the "victims" are attending my words, or within ear-shot, or reading.

My list of peoples include the same as yours, yet perhaps not on any scale regarding importance in this world, or their station in life, but one never knows who one is talking to at the time, yes?

Another point: What difference does it make what people shout if you are not there to hear them shout it, or they are not angry enough at you to hunt you down and shout it at you?

I have never had that happen to me, clearly, but I find it interesting that some people seem to attract trouble no matter where they go and all throughout history. I always thought that was unfair, until I got in their sights and became the subject of their narcissistic outrage and vitriol.

Now if you can post something here to change my experiences and what I said, then more power to you. I am of an open mind for that. Thus far, I would never willingly volunteer any support for this crew as long as they hold the views that people like that woman are lower than a dog, as the implications would strongly suggest.

I enjoy your candor and grace.

I would never seek to change the mind of a man who can actually articulate how his views came to pass; they are necessarily valid, even if different from my own. You cite this too, in your personal experiences that only one party has responded in a negative way to you and that influences your perspective. I get it. I also spent many years in NY and I have also seen this very same type of response from the very same people. In many ways, Tel Aviv and Brooklyn differ little. I have known many good men who's views were totally different than mine. It was these men who shaped my convictions as I had to really understand and grasp the material for which I could mouth of view. We always laughed, slapped each other's back, and looked forward to our next get together.

I also have my opinions shaped by my experiences. I conclude that there are dirtbags on both sides but only one has the prerogative of State Voice and national power. That will always make the other side an underdog. My position is less that Israel is right, or that the local arabs are wrong- overall- but I insist the nature of the in-traction is religious and not nationalistic. It is a bit challenging too, to write on open forums about such views and steer clear of inappropriate suggestions or language but I do because I remain detached, though clearly opinionated. I believe this is wholly a religious issue for the local arabs with the nationalist sentiment a secondary horse to ride the religion to the enemy.

I believe with my fullest that were Palestine to become a State fully, before water works, public works, school systems, roads, etc., work would begin on a military buildup, dangerous treaties, and preparation for further war once equal to Israel's power. I have zero doubt about this. However, an intelligent solution evades me. I dont know. Thank you.

[chuckd]

I stopped reading your nonsensical post after coming across this glorious question.

"Is that a Jew thing?"

That was all I needed to see.

Attacking the woman's character with ad hominems now, eh? How do you know that woman has been brain washed and indoctrinated by some twisted imam of a just Hamas recruiter? I would like to know how you know that. Are you clairvoyant also? Is that a Jew thing? I am jealous.

<bs snip>

[Jingthing]

I stopped reading your nonsensical post after coming across this glorious question.

"Is that a Jew thing?"

That was all I needed to see.

Attacking the woman's character with ad hominems now, eh? How do you know that woman has been brain washed and indoctrinated by some twisted imam of a just Hamas recruiter? I would like to know how you know that. Are you clairvoyant also? Is that a Jew thing? I am jealous.

Exactly. Why people are bothering spending energy replying to such posts is beyond me.

The IGNORE feature is a beautiful thing.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited December 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[Morch]

I read the Reuters report. There is simply not enough information to know why she was shot. A Palestinian organization said she was shot - but a hospital did say her wound was serious. So - not even 100% verification that she was shot and not wounded in some other way... perhaps even wrestling for the knife. As Palestinian organizations will say anything to create a small morsel of anti-Israel propaganda.

There is no way from the posted report in the OP to know what happened in the moments of the actual apprehension. Did she continue lashing out with the knife? ... Did she approach an IDF soldier swinging the knife?... Or, was she just shot? Was she injured in some other way?

It would seem those who automatically damn the IDF must be assuming that the woman - stabbed someone for her own good and justifiable reasons... then dropped the knife and surrendered and was shot... or some extreme scenario. But there is no proof of that in the report.

Or that the stabber was just standing there after her act of violence with or without the knife and a IDF soldier just swung a rifle around and shot her. Total conjecture. It is not known at this time.

NONE of that is in the report. Neither is that perhaps she continue attacking people or lunging at them with the knife - did she? We don't know.

Making calloused comments against the IDF from this report is par for the course for the Jew Haters (reincarnates of people of the mid 1930's) ... To Israel haters - It does not matter what complications were in play or not in play - the IDF is guilty - no proof needed - they exist and that is enough.

Those who have become brainwashed to automatically defend Arabs who live in the area as victims and the IDF as the unprovoked aggressor will believe and say anything - regardless of actual proof. This is an amazing replay of the mentality of those people screaming and chanting in Ferguson, MO. Guilty --- no extenuating circumstances exist you know.

There are other media sources covering the story, not really that hard to find more details.

Apparently she got near the guy, stabbed him quick and moved away (not that clear if looking for another target or as

disengagement). He cried out, soldiers on the scene shot and wounded her, and she was later transferred to hospital

in Jerusalem. She had another knife ready and hidden on her person.

There are even video clips of the scene minutes after the attack...

[cup-O-coffee]

I stopped reading your nonsensical post after coming across this glorious question.

"Is that a Jew thing?"

That was all I needed to see.

Attacking the woman's character with ad hominems now, eh? How do you know that woman has been brain washed and indoctrinated by some twisted imam of a just Hamas recruiter? I would like to know how you know that. Are you clairvoyant also? Is that a Jew thing? I am jealous.

<bs snip>

To respond would be... what?

[thaibeachlovers]

Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands^[1][2][3][4] of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict. As of July 2014 the attacks have killed 28 people,^[5] and injured more than 1900 people, but their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace.^[6] Medical studies in Sderot, the Israeli city closest to the Gaza Strip, have documented a post-traumatic stress disorder incidence among young children of almost 50%, as well as high rates of depression and miscarriage

Wikipedia

I guess there is a point to the rocket attacks then. If they can't win a head to head battle, make Israelis life a living hell till they negotiate in good faith.

[cup-O-coffee]

I stopped reading your nonsensical post after coming across this glorious question.

"Is that a Jew thing?"

That was all I needed to see.

Attacking the woman's character with ad hominems now, eh? How do you know that woman has been brain washed and indoctrinated by some twisted imam of a just Hamas recruiter? I would like to know how you know that. Are you clairvoyant also? Is that a Jew thing? I am jealous.

Exactly. Why people are bothering spending energy replying to such posts is beyond me.

The IGNORE feature is a beautiful thing.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I wish Palestine had a huge "Ignore" button.