Labour Government’s Bold Claim to “honesty with voters” Has Unraveled Quickly

[webfact]

Prosecutors set to arraign Myanmar men for Koh Tao killings
Suwannee Banditsak
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- PUBLIC PROSECUTORS are preparing to arraign two Myanmar suspects today on charges related to the murder of two British tourists on Koh Tao in September.

"Evidence presented by investigators is solid," Tawatchai Seangchaew said yesterday in his capacity as head of the Office of State Attorney Region 8.

He said police had backed their investigation report with witness statements, circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence.

Tawatchai said speculation on social media about the suspects being scapegoats may have stemmed from the fact people did not have access to complete information and full sets of evidence.

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

Koh Tao, a usually idyllic island near Samui and Pha-ngan, was the scene of brutal crimes in mid-September. The killings of Britons David Miller and Hannah Witheridge made headlines both locally and internationally.

A few weeks later, Thai police arrested two Myanmar suspects and charged them with the murders. But Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun later |complained that they were forced into confessing to the crimes they had not committed.

Their parents have been seeking help from various organisations, including the Myanmar embassy, as they are adamant that their sons are innocent.

In the face of public suspicion that the pair may be scapegoats, Thai police arranged a DNA test for the son of an influential local before the media. Test results cleared the young man named on social media as the real suspect.

Tawatchai said yesterday parents of the victims would be notified of the latest move by Thai officials. "They can become co-plaintiffs if they want," he said.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Prosecutors-set-to-arraign-Myanmar-men-for-Koh-Tao-30248974.html


-- The Nation 2014-12-02

[MaxLee]

"Under the law, some items of evidence can't be disclosed publicly," he said.

something like money paid in advance by certain influential people,....

[siampolee]

Unbelievable this case is flawed beyond belief and the world is wise to that fact as well are a large number of Thai's too.

Indeed we see yet again the true face of a xenophobic self gratifying police farce force and the society it serves their only god being Mammon.

The comment below is arrogant, condescending, sanctimonious and pompous and yet again shows all just what the police farce force here are worth.

It may well be that that invitation could backfire in this case as there is far more publicity and truth seeking in the U.K. concerning this matter than there will or ever could be here in Thailand

Tawatchai said yesterday parents of the victims would be notified of the latest move by Thai officials. "They can become co-plaintiffs if they want," he said.

Edited December 2, 2014 by metisdead
Hyperbolic image removed.

[KhunMoo]

Welcome to Thailand...



I know the public, does not have all the evidence available, as stated in the article - but just from following this case, in the media. It seems really hard to prove, beyond all doubt, that they did it.

[NongKhaiKid]

The BIB said the case they first presented was ' perfect ' but having been told to produce more evidence or clarify some points on more than one occasion the prosecutors now say the case is ' solid ' so maybe they can actually start a trial and let's see what this perfect, solid case is made of unless of course the two accused have' decided ' or been ' persuaded ' to plead guilty.

The prosecutor felt it necessary to say that under the law some items of law can't be disclosed publicly, what a pity this legal requirement meant nothing to the BIB who from the outset never stopped talking. Surely someone from the prosecutors office should have told them to shut up if that's possible.

In some jurisdictions the non-stop comments from the police could jeopardize the prosecutions case but TIT.

[Somtamnication]

They have no choice but to prosecute. Huge loss of face if charges are withdrawn. Can't wait for the not guilty verdict!

[z42]

Luckily this case has got too big for the case not to go to trial. But because of the high profile nature of the case and all of the investigative flaws and torture allegations not yet contested I very much doubt these boys will be found guilty.
The trial just seems like a means of 'going through the motions' to appease the parents. The final sentences from the article seems to imply this. It's pretty certain that there is insufficient evidence to convict but the RTP can say "we tried but were continually hampered in our efforts by internet conspiracy theorists" and conveniently put the case as "unsolvable".

It is almost inconceivable that the judge will convict. The outrage internationally from press alone is something the junta won't risk. The scrutiny they're under so far has shown huge cracks start to appear in many different areas. They certainly wouldn't welcome any negative backlash. I might be completely wrong but I just can't see the Burmese chaps going down with the 'evidence' as is

[Commerce]

"He said police had backed their investigation report with witness statements, circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence."

We were told for a long time there were no witnesses..... magic, all of a sudden?

Circumstancial evidence? In a murder investigation?

We all know the forensics are not worth any tissue they are scribbled on.

I sure hope their defence lawyer has not been bought, and tears this case to pieces.

[bruceybonus]

Luckily this case has got too big for the case not to go to trial. But because of the high profile nature of the case and all of the investigative flaws and torture allegations not yet contested I very much doubt these boys will be found guilty.

The trial just seems like a means of 'going through the motions' to appease the parents. The final sentences from the article seems to imply this. It's pretty certain that there is insufficient evidence to convict but the RTP can say "we tried but were continually hampered in our efforts by internet conspiracy theorists" and conveniently put the case as "unsolvable".

It is almost inconceivable that the judge will convict. The outrage internationally from press alone is something the junta won't risk. The scrutiny they're under so far has shown huge cracks start to appear in many different areas. They certainly wouldn't welcome any negative backlash. I might be completely wrong but I just can't see the Burmese chaps going down with the 'evidence' as is

I really believe the Junta don't give a shit about international outrage. They live in a nice little bubble, which is impregnable (in their eyes). Economic consequences are nowhere near as bad as losing face.

[siampolee]

z42 Your post is indeed an interesting one and hopefully nearer to the truth than the prosecutions case. However the one major point that will be of influence in this case is the fact that face will be lost. Those involved will try every way they can to avoid being identified for what they are .

However we can but live in hope as can those accused (unjustly in many peoples views) regarding the outcome of this flawed case with a not guilty verdict..

[Briggsy]

When this goes to trial, I expect

1) The trial will be very drawn out.

This gives longer for the case to fade from the public's mind. It also gives the police, prosecutor and court the time to closely monitor any events happening in the UK, or less likely, Burma or NHRC and adjust their actions accordingly to cover their backs.

2) Heavy control of reporting and close management of 'the message' by the judge and any press office.

3) Nothing in the way of an adversarial trial that Western posters would be familiar with.

Cross-examination of witnesses by barristers, lawyers, etc. is almost unheard of in Thai courts. Proceedings are much more tightly controlled and dominated by the judge.

[jdinasia]

"He said police had backed their investigation report with witness statements, circumstantial evidence and forensic evidence."

We were told for a long time there were no witnesses..... magic, all of a sudden?

Circumstancial evidence? In a murder investigation?

We all know the forensics are not worth any tissue they are scribbled on.

I sure hope their defence lawyer has not been bought, and tears this case to pieces.

Witnesses, circumstantial evidence, DNA, etc will likely be enough to convict.

[siampolee]

jdinasia post # 12

Witnesses, circumstantial evidence, DNA, etc will likely be enough to convict.

The Oracle has spoken.

One is led to wonder why an ongoing campaign is being conducted with the intention to divert people away from the truth by some posters, might those posters have knowledge or even a vested interest in those really involved in the matter and the subsequent outcome of the case?

[BSJ]

I am not saying they didn't do it, what I am saying is the police screwed up this case so much we may never know the truth.

[brucec64]

When this goes to trial, I expect

1) The trial will be very drawn out.

This gives longer for the case to fade from the public's mind. It also gives the police, prosecutor and court the time to closely monitor any events happening in the UK, or less likely, Burma or NHRC and adjust their actions accordingly to cover their backs.

2) Heavy control of reporting and close management of 'the message' by the judge and any press office.

3) Nothing in the way of an adversarial trial that Western posters would be familiar with.

Cross-examination of witnesses by barristers, lawyers, etc. is almost unheard of in Thai courts. Proceedings are much more tightly controlled and dominated by the judge.

All witnesses in Thai proceedings are subject to examination, cross examination, and re examination. This is done by the plaintiff and defence lawyers, but the judge may also ask questions during the proceedings.

[siampolee]

BSJ post # 14

I am not saying they didn't do it, what I am saying is the police screwed up this case so much we may never know the truth.

There in a nutshell is the answer.

Or perhaps it should read.

I am not saying they didn't do it, what I am saying is the police screwed so much money out of the real murderers and rapists we will never know the truth of the matter..

[Dogmatix]

The judge will convict for rape on police DNA evidence and for murder on he on circumstantial evidence, since the tape puts them in the location and provides the motive for the murders. Since the police have the monopoly on forensics in Thailand, the courts have to accept their forensic evidence. The explanation of what actually happened will be the same concocted nonsense we have already seen but that will be glossed over in deference to the police DNA evidence. The 2B might have better chances by the time the case gets to the Supreme Court, if they live that long,, once there are different police and hopefully a new government in power.

No way the victims' parents will join in this macabre pantomime as co-plaintiffs. The suggestion merely serves to taunt them with the certainty that justice for their murdered loved ones is the lowest priority here. If the victims had been children of prominent Thai politicians, business people or military, it would have been an entirely different matter. But as it is, foreign tourists are replaceable. There are, after all, 26 million of them annually and, as the tourism minister pointed out in her recent presentation to the Harvard Business School of Thailand Society, arrivals from the UK have actually picked up since the Koh Tao murders. So they must be doing something right.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Dogmatix

[slipperx]

When this goes to trial, I expect

1) The trial will be very drawn out.

This gives longer for the case to fade from the public's mind. It also gives the police, prosecutor and court the time to closely monitor any events happening in the UK, or less likely, Burma or NHRC and adjust their actions accordingly to cover their backs.

2) Heavy control of reporting and close management of 'the message' by the judge and any press office.

3) Nothing in the way of an adversarial trial that Western posters would be familiar with.

Cross-examination of witnesses by barristers, lawyers, etc. is almost unheard of in Thai courts. Proceedings are much more tightly controlled and dominated by the judge.

I am no defender of what passes for a justice system here but:

All cases are drawn out because the Procedure Code is hopeless. Adjournments the norm because it is a delaying tactic and there are no costs to it - in the West the adjourning party will usually pay the other sides cost of an adjournment but here one side can adjourn for no cost and little reason. Also the whole trial management is a joke when compared to more efficient systems.

It is usual for the press to limit reporting during a trial to avoid prejudice to either side. The fact cases take years here rather blunts the media story because people want breaking news not an outcome of something started 5 years ago.

Witnesses are examined, cross examined and re-examined just as in the West if the judge allows the witnesses into evidence. Perversion of justice can and does occur where witnesses are refused as that evidence is very hard to introduce at appeal or Dika appeal stage. That is why a judge can be bribed at the first stage and the effect last through the appeal stages. Retrials are also very difficult where a miscarriage of justice has occurred because the judiciary do not like to admit any fault in their judges or processes in normal Thsi fashion.

[ChrisY1]

It's now December.....3 months almost since the events took place..........

The Thai public have forgotten about this case......it will be kept as low key as is possible....I would expect the case to be concluded quickly

[Commerce]

BSJ post # 14

I am not saying they didn't do it, what I am saying is the police screwed up this case so much we may never know the truth.

There in a nutshell is the answer.

Or perhaps it should read.

I am not saying they didn't do it, what I am saying is the police screwed so much money out of the real murderers and rapists we will never know the truth of the matter..

Someone's on form this morning!

[jdinasia]

jdinasia post # 12

Witnesses, circumstantial evidence, DNA, etc will likely be enough to convict.

The Oracle has spoken.

One is led to wonder why an ongoing campaign is being conducted with the intention to divert people away from the truth by some posters, might those posters have knowledge or even a vested interest in those really involved in the matter and the subsequent outcome of the case?

http://www.tncourts.gov/press/2012/10/12/supreme-court-reinstates-murder-conviction-says-circumstantial-evidence-sufficient

No vested interest on my part, how about on yours?

[smedly]

so the police are saying that if the parents become co-plaintiffs that they can find enough evidence and witnesses to convict them too even though they were in a different country at the time - sounds about right

[z42]

Luckily this case has got too big for the case not to go to trial. But because of the high profile nature of the case and all of the investigative flaws and torture allegations not yet contested I very much doubt these boys will be found guilty.

The trial just seems like a means of 'going through the motions' to appease the parents. The final sentences from the article seems to imply this. It's pretty certain that there is insufficient evidence to convict but the RTP can say "we tried but were continually hampered in our efforts by internet conspiracy theorists" and conveniently put the case as "unsolvable".

It is almost inconceivable that the judge will convict. The outrage internationally from press alone is something the junta won't risk. The scrutiny they're under so far has shown huge cracks start to appear in many different areas. They certainly wouldn't welcome any negative backlash. I might be completely wrong but I just can't see the Burmese chaps going down with the 'evidence' as is

I really believe the Junta don't give a shit about international outrage. They live in a nice little bubble, which is impregnable (in their eyes). Economic consequences are nowhere near as bad as losing face.

That was precisely my point, face won't be lost if the trial actually happens. But like you say these people running the show right now are disengaged massively from reality, so obviously anything is possible. I also think that for now they do give a shit about international relations and do need some accountability. They don't want their legacy to include pissing off other countries because Thailand won't be under junta rule forever

[greenchair]

Sad sad #

[The stuttering parrot]

Interesting thousands of posts of rumours ifs buts and maybes it amazes me that anyone who dares says something like jdinasia that circumstantial witnesses and DNA will most likely convict then suddenly he is queried whether he has a vested interest.

The very same people who conclude that these guys are innocent are first to cast the guilt stones at anyone with a different veiw.

And a bit of thai bashing for good measure.

The trial will go ahead and yet I haven't seen one headline about the British police observations in this case.

So either their happy with the investigation or just had a nice junket.

[Thaddeus]

Let's play a little game.

Spot who has done a decent days work to live?

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The BIB said the case they first presented was ' perfect ' but having been told to produce more evidence or clarify some points on more than one occasion the prosecutors now say the case is ' solid ' so maybe they can actually start a trial and let's see what this perfect, solid case is made of unless of course the two accused have' decided ' or been ' persuaded ' to plead guilty.

The prosecutor felt it necessary to say that under the law some items of law can't be disclosed publicly, what a pity this legal requirement meant nothing to the BIB who from the outset never stopped talking. Surely someone from the prosecutors office should have told them to shut up if that's possible.

In some jurisdictions the non-stop comments from the police could jeopardize the prosecutions case but TIT.

A senior officer did say on a media stop that the DNA didn't belong to an Asian , if I was the defence I would be hammering the credibility of the RTP and has the evidence been tampered with

[Chris Lawrence]

In America they have riots over these sought of things, injustice of minorities?

Well they had to get off the fence and send this one to trial. Unfortunately the Thai judicial system has its own inherent problems. So outcome will be a conviction with right of appeal?

Loss of face is greater than the truth.

Good luck to the Burma lads.

[Manbing]

Having taught magistrates in Thailand, I think it worth mentioning that Thai justice does not work on the 'innocent until proven guilty' concept.

Magistrates I have spoken to use the 'no smoke without fire' principle.

Meaning if the police bring it to court, then the party must be guilty, or why did they bother in the first place.

Thai QED.

[Khun Paul]

The outcome of this case will be mired in the myths that is Thai justice, so many before have not been solved conclusively and i seriously doubt with the incompetent RTP that this one will be any different.

What saddens me is the seemingly lack of tact and forethought by Thai Authorities, although we have come to exopect nothing else the parents of these two are going to be sent paperwork asking them if they wish to pursue a civil case, what utter rubbish and so hurtful. But then Thaiauthorities are not known for tact or even logical thinking.

I feel for the parents who I think probably know that the two burmese offenders are scapegoats or at least innocent and their own crime was to be in a country that is as uncaring as it is racist.