Israel PM Benjamin Netanyahu seeks early general election

[Ulysses G.]

"If the Palestinians had not declared war on Israel in the first place, they would not have to worry about the Oslo Accords".

Please, check your facts before printing such ludicrous statements. The Palestinians have never declared war, Hamas has.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict started with Hamas, then?

How regrettable that once again we see someone who cannot read what is written but wants to read what they would like to think is written.

That is exactly what YOU said. Morch got it absolutely right.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

May the best mensch win. This is a decision for the Israelis.

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Not a single one among them. And that includes the women.

A nice thought but unrealistic at best. I note the New York Jewish lobby is gearing up with donation drives etc. for Netanyahu and anyone who is right of centre. Safe to say they contribute more than anyone to maintaining an opposition to any Palestinian peace deal.

Not even sure how "unrealistic at best" even relates to my post. Perhaps you were attempting a reply to Jingthing?

Since the elections were just announced, I doubt that you actually noticed and immediate gearing up. Both sides of the

Israeli political map often accuse each other of being sponsored and influenced by foreign donors and interest groups.

Sort of what one here from many a political system...

But of course, if you have something concrete to back these assertions, it would make an interesting read.

[Jingthing]

May the best mensch win. This is a decision for the Israelis.

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Not a single one among them. And that includes the women.

Hey that's politics in most countries. Great leaders are rare.

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[Saradoc1972]

Ooops... technical malfunction here.

I'll send the reply I meant to send below. Original text is lost, grrr.

Sorry.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Saradoc1972

[Saradoc1972]

Sure, Palestinians deserve a state but Arabs and Muslims ALREADY have MANY MANY states.

That is the basic mistake from the end of colonial times after WW2, when a good couple of countries in the Middle East were arbitrarily created, mostly by the British, with no regard for ethnicalities and differences among Muslims.

Not all Arabs are Muslims, not all Muslims are Arabs, there is more than a good two dozens of different streams within Islam.

Best known example are Shiites and Sunnis (some squabble about who is the successor of the Prophet I'll probably never get into my head), Allevites and Salafists probably couldn't be more different, the first denying all Islam interference with secular matters, the second wanting Sharia in everyday life to full extent as it was 1400 years ago.

...m'kay? If it's the other way round, it doesn't really matter.

The basic mistake back in the 1940ies (and back then nobody knew any better) was drawing those borders with no regards for those ethnic and religious differences. If you look up the map, you'll see a lot of rather straight lines, like on a drawing board.

That just doesn't work, just ask a Kurd. At least with people relying very much on a tribal system. I don't want to sound racist or anything, but "Irak isn't Norway", which is some adage I read on the news some 10 years ago when the US where warned their supposed implementation of democracy "down there" and just drawing out was unlikely to work. As it then turned out to be unworkable with a lot of modern weaponry ending in the hands of zealotes now known as the "IS" or taken by them from weaker "tribes" and a "failed state" Irak.

So, if you want to help the Palestines, even if it is only to put a lid on all the bad things happening "down there", they will need a state of their own, the question is: Where???

[up-country_sinclair]

demonization of Israel is always about Jews by definition.

Whose definition would that be? Those living in perpetual victimhood?

I don't care about anyone's religion. Whether it be Jewish, Catholic, Buddhist or Scientologist.

But the immoral and illegal actions committed by Israel warrant demonization--at the very least.

Back on topic, this upcoming election is a chance for the citizens of Israel to cast their votes for leaders who actually believe in peace. They can demonstrate that they know that the Netanyahu government is an impediment to peace and thousands are dead due to his malevolence. This is their chance to publicly reject his malicious government before the eyes of the world.

If they don't, well quite frankly, then they'll have to suffer the consequences.

[Ulysses G.]

If they don't, well quite frankly, then they'll have to suffer the consequences.

If the past is any guide, the Palestinians will aways suffer the consequences of their own violent actions a lot more than Israelis ever will. They never seem to learn.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Wat dee]

" Face it folks, if Israel wasn't about JEWS, you wouldn't be seeing that. Denials are pointless".

Please, don't tell those who may disagree with you what to think or say - arrogance personified. The state of Palastine has as much right to exist as that of Israel, something that really gets under Netanyahu's and his supporters skin. However, it's all academic if the reports of Hamas having perfected (with North Korea's help) a briefcase bomb are correct, lookout Israel your days are numbered. Seems I hit a nerve!

Sounds like you are cheerleading for Hamas then and the end of Israel.

Sure, Palestinians deserve a state but Arabs and Muslims ALREADY have MANY MANY states.

The obsessiveness of so many to suggest Israel doesn't deserve the ONE is clearly because Israel is the JEW of nations.

Again, denial is pointless.

Anyone with the most basic common sense can see it.

I doubt that many Danes would move to Sweden just to make room for other more "deserving" people.

[Saradoc1972]

If they don't, well quite frankly, then they'll have to suffer the consequences.

If the past is any guide, the Palestinians will aways suffer the consequences of their own violent actions a lot more than Israelis ever will. They never seem to learn.

Exactly.

Just with the Palestineans, as with Muslims most everywhere else, there doesn't appear to be a "they".

I'm quite positive most Palestinians are not supporting any of this useless violence. It's just that some Muslims from an otherwise innocuous community seem to be prone to a sort of violence unthinkable to anyone from a Jewish-Christian background over whatever presently hurt their feelings as such. And those people hold the rest of that community more or less as gunpoint, there is no effective state system to protect anyone rejecting the idea of storing rockets in a hospital, even if it's only because they know what is going to happen when Israel decides it's not going to stand for it. Anyone trying to do so would just be gutted, it's mob rule out there.

So it appears, Israel has decided it can only look at peoples' foreheads, put them into some sort of fenced-in "reservations" called West-Jordan and Gaza, and while some actions might be somewhat drastic or unhelpful, you can't really blame them.

[Wat dee]

You don't have to mention the word Jews. Obsessive demonization of Israel is always about Jews by definition. Look at the flag, mate. Do you know any OTHER nation with the STAR OF DAVID on it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCBINSWCiAE

"This institution is part of the "people" who enslave the whole planet"

Hint -- he's not talking about Southern Baptists.

Thank You for uploading the video. It seems future American leaders can see throw the bias media.

There's still hope

[dexterm]

That is just plain silly - why am I not surprised? Hamas are the biggest bar to peace in the whole process, on either side.

I have got a sneaky feeling that the 500,000 rabid Zionist colonists in the West Bank may have something to do with obstructing the peace process.

Hardly a day goes by without gangs of Israeli terrorist thugs attacking Palestinians and their property.

"Over the period from January 2012 to June 2013, Israeli police registered 788 cases of suspected price tag assaults in which 276 arrests were conducted, leading to 154 indictments"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

Beware carpal tunnel syndrome as you scroll down the long long list of vandalism, arson and assaults.

I wonder if the authorities will demolish the homes of the terrorists' relatives and deport them back to Israel, or better still to the country which is on their other passport.(Over a million Israeli Jews maintain a second passport.. and the rest could obtain one via their parents' and grandparents'original nationality...such confidence in the future, eh)

Edited December 4, 2014 by dexterm

[dexterm]

I think Netanyahu will probably win and the country will move further to the right. The Palestinians aren't worried. It will just be another own goal for Israel causing more EU countries to see through the racist state, leading hopefully to sanctions from Israel's biggest trading partner. It may actually embarrass US too. The younger people there are beginning to see the truth about Israel's repressive 47 year old occupation of another people.

But it isn't a foregone conclusion. Haaretz has an interesting article

15 reasons why Netanyahu could lose the next Israeli elections

A major upset will shock everyone but is perfectly predictable with the benefit of hindsight.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/1.629673

Edited December 4, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

Hardly a day goes by without gangs of Israeli terrorist thugs attacking Palestinians and their property.

What malarkey, but consider the source. Mostly tires slashed, graffiti, spray-painting slogans and scratching cars with keys. This is nothing like the actions of Hamas. There is also evidence that some of the "price tag" (a "price" paid for Palestinian violence against Jews) attacks are staged by Palestinian activists who then blame Israelis.

However, on a number of occasions suspected "price tag" incidents have been proven false or staged by Arab and left-wing activists, who purposely damage Arab-owned property in an attempt to blame nearby Jewish communities.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/176599

Edited December 4, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

demonization of Israel is always about Jews by definition.

Whose definition would that be? Those living in perpetual victimhood?

I don't care about anyone's religion. Whether it be Jewish, Catholic, Buddhist or Scientologist.

But the immoral and illegal actions committed by Israel warrant demonization--at the very least.

Back on topic, this upcoming election is a chance for the citizens of Israel to cast their votes for leaders who actually believe in peace. They can demonstrate that they know that the Netanyahu government is an impediment to peace and thousands are dead due to his malevolence. This is their chance to publicly reject his malicious government before the eyes of the world.

If they don't, well quite frankly, then they'll have to suffer the consequences.

Well, might not be demonization, call it an unexplained obsession with Israel's sins while exhibiting less interest in other

instances of injustice worldwide.

Back on topic - the reasons leading to the current crisis and elections have more causes than just the lack of peace process

with the Palestinians. As in most countries voters are often more worried about the economy, social gaps, certain freedoms.

While many of the current issues can be said to stem (in a direct or roundabout way) from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and

many can be attributed to Netanyahu leadership (or lack of it) - these elections are not exactly a referendum on peace.

Regardless of the outcome, it can be said right away that there will not be an overwhelming majority to either right wing or

left wing parties. In addition, putting together a coalition usually involves some shady dealings and odd alliances (see the

current government for reference). So the identity of the Prime Minister is not always a good indication of general public

opinion, or at least not as straightforward as depicted in your post.

As posted earlier, and in other topics - even if Netanyahu is replaced by a center/left wing candidate, that is not guarantee

that things will become much better as far as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict goes.

The issue with the suffering you allude to is that most Israeli seriously doubt that things will radically change anytime soon,

even if there's a government in place which will go along with negotiations and give the Palestinians what they wish. This,

perhaps, is the major obstacle (applies also to the Palestinian side) - lack of faith in the possibility of change.

[Morch]

That is just plain silly - why am I not surprised? Hamas are the biggest bar to peace in the whole process, on either side.

I have got a sneaky feeling that the 500,000 rabid Zionist colonists in the West Bank may have something to do with obstructing the peace process.

Hardly a day goes by without gangs of Israeli terrorist thugs attacking Palestinians and their property.

"Over the period from January 2012 to June 2013, Israeli police registered 788 cases of suspected price tag assaults in which 276 arrests were conducted, leading to 154 indictments"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

Beware carpal tunnel syndrome as you scroll down the long long list of vandalism, arson and assaults.

I wonder if the authorities will demolish the homes of the terrorists' relatives and deport them back to Israel, or better still to the country which is on their other passport.(Over a million Israeli Jews maintain a second passport.. and the rest could obtain one via their parents' and grandparents'original nationality...such confidence in the future, eh)

And I wonder how this got much to do (except in a roundabout way) with the topic at hand...

But as you yourself said, things do not happen in a vaccum, and not are they one sided as you usually attempt to present.

Long lists of attacks, figures and assorted details are available for actions taken by both sides.

http://www.btselem.org/israeli_civilians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

Or just the latest...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israeli-police-palestinian-stabs-west-bank-27334358

[dexterm]

That is just plain silly - why am I not surprised? Hamas are the biggest bar to peace in the whole process, on either side.

I have got a sneaky feeling that the 500,000 rabid Zionist colonists in the West Bank may have something to do with obstructing the peace process.

Hardly a day goes by without gangs of Israeli terrorist thugs attacking Palestinians and their property.

"Over the period from January 2012 to June 2013, Israeli police registered 788 cases of suspected price tag assaults in which 276 arrests were conducted, leading to 154 indictments"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

Beware carpal tunnel syndrome as you scroll down the long long list of vandalism, arson and assaults.

I wonder if the authorities will demolish the homes of the terrorists' relatives and deport them back to Israel, or better still to the country which is on their other passport.(Over a million Israeli Jews maintain a second passport.. and the rest could obtain one via their parents' and grandparents'original nationality...such confidence in the future, eh)

And I wonder how this got much to do (except in a roundabout way) with the topic at hand...

But as you yourself said, things do not happen in a vaccum, and not are they one sided as you usually attempt to present.

Long lists of attacks, figures and assorted details are available for actions taken by both sides.

http://www.btselem.org/israeli_civilians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

Or just the latest...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israeli-police-palestinian-stabs-west-bank-27334358

Because in any discussion the usual Israeli apologist suspects always drag out Hamas as the main stumbling block to peace. Even though Hamas has offered an indefinite truce and will tolerate but not recognize Israel within the 1967 borders. They would be sidelined ultimately as the majority enjoy the benefits of peace and prosperity after a just agreement.

I mention the fanatical violent Israeli West Bank colonists as worse. They have no intention of recognizing or tolerating any Palestinian state.

And at the moment the parties that support this view seem to have Netanyahu's ear, and hope to form a coalition government with him.

If Israel had not allowed this massive influx of colonists into the West Bank, illegal under the Geneva Convention, then perhaps we would have had peace years ago, and the incidents you mention would not have happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement_timeline

Edited December 4, 2014 by dexterm

[Wat dee]

Somehow I find any forum member advocating the use of a nuclear suitcase device on Israel (or any other country for that matter) somewhat disturbing.

Hopefully I misunderstood his intent when he said this...

"However, it's all academic if the reports of Hamas having perfected (with North Korea's help) a briefcase bomb are correct, lookout Israel your days are numbered."

Your footer is very apt and appropriate.

Couple of confirmed suitcases would balance the negotiations for peace.

[Morch]

That is just plain silly - why am I not surprised? Hamas are the biggest bar to peace in the whole process, on either side.

I have got a sneaky feeling that the 500,000 rabid Zionist colonists in the West Bank may have something to do with obstructing the peace process.

Hardly a day goes by without gangs of Israeli terrorist thugs attacking Palestinians and their property.

"Over the period from January 2012 to June 2013, Israeli police registered 788 cases of suspected price tag assaults in which 276 arrests were conducted, leading to 154 indictments"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_price_tag_attacks

Beware carpal tunnel syndrome as you scroll down the long long list of vandalism, arson and assaults.

I wonder if the authorities will demolish the homes of the terrorists' relatives and deport them back to Israel, or better still to the country which is on their other passport.(Over a million Israeli Jews maintain a second passport.. and the rest could obtain one via their parents' and grandparents'original nationality...such confidence in the future, eh)

And I wonder how this got much to do (except in a roundabout way) with the topic at hand...

But as you yourself said, things do not happen in a vaccum, and not are they one sided as you usually attempt to present.

Long lists of attacks, figures and assorted details are available for actions taken by both sides.

http://www.btselem.org/israeli_civilians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

Or just the latest...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israeli-police-palestinian-stabs-west-bank-27334358

Because in any discussion the usual Israeli apologist suspects always drag out Hamas as the main stumbling block to peace. Even though Hamas has offered an indefinite truce and will tolerate but not recognize Israel within the 1967 borders. They would be sidelined ultimately as the majority enjoy the benefits of peace and prosperity after a just agreement.

I mention the fanatical violent Israeli West Bank colonists as worse. They have no intention of recognizing or tolerating any Palestinian state.

And at the moment the parties that support this view seem to have Netanyahu's ear, and hope to form a coalition government with him.

If Israel had not allowed this massive influx of colonists into the West Bank, illegal under the Geneva Convention, then perhaps we would have had peace years ago, and the incidents you mention would not have happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement_timeline

And again, this is a topic about the upcoming Israeli election, and my question stands - how is this directly relevant?

Re-hashing nonsense about how Hamas is reasonable, willing to negotiate, and wishing to cut a deal - well, even if

you don't accept that your claims have been countered repeatedly, links provided shown to be out of context, old or

irrelevant - just look at what Hamas is saying these days and compare it with your ideal view of said group.

That the Hamas would be sidelined if and when the majority of Palestinians enjoy the benefits of peace and proseperity

is one of the bogus statements often made in these topics. For starters, the Hamas is one of the sides that needs to both

accept a peace deal and uphold it. Obstacle one. The Hamas is well aware that the armed struggle is its raison d'etre so

not very likely to let go that easy. Obstacle two. The benefits of peace and prosperity will take a long while to be felt by

the majority of Palestinians, until then every setback could be used to rekindle the flames. Obstacle three.

Sometimes optimism can slip into wishful thinking. This is one such example.

The difference between the Hamas and the West Bank settlers is that when push comes to shove, there is still a possibility

that the settlers will be shoved by their own government. This has happened in the past, despite the scale being very much

different. Who is going to shove the Hamas?

Back to the election issue - it is far from certain that a shaky center/left wing coalition, even if it comes about, could muster

enough public support to make any radical moves. They could have, in some constellations, and with some dodgy dealings

a narrow majority, but this will not necessarily reflect public opinion (many center voters are not so much pro-peace, as they

are concerned with economy and social issues).

[dexterm]

Yes, I agree ..it will take time to build trust..and there will still be hot heads around on both sides after a peace agreement. I hope that the shoving of Hamas would come from the majority vote of Palestinians in a referendum manifestly saying we accept a peace agreement.

Perhaps as the economy worsens due to increased isolation and possible EU sanctions, it might focus the minds of the center voters a little more on the peace process.

[Morch]

Yes, I agree ..it will take time to build trust..and there will still be hot heads around on both sides after a peace agreement. I hope that the shoving of Hamas would come from the majority vote of Palestinians in a referendum manifestly saying we accept a peace agreement.

Perhaps as the economy worsens due to increased isolation and possible EU sanctions, it might focus the minds of the center voters a little more on the peace process.

Considering that the Palestinians cannot even get their promised elections sorted, wouldn't place much hope on them having a referendum on anything remotely as monumental as a peace accord. Wouldn't know that such a referendum, if carried out, would necessarily provide the answer hoped for, or even if so, that the majority would be overwhelming. Hamas got very little incentive to let go of the armed struggle, and I am pretty sure they know how to put a spoke in this wheel.

If the economy suffers badly it could have implications on the chances for peace, yes. But this is usually somewhat slow paced relative to other developments, and sometimes not seen as being directly connected to events (at least by some of the public).

Many on the Israeli public view he ousted finance minister, Lapid, as responsible for current economic conditions in Israel (or at least as responsible as Netanyahu) - throwing blame around on that front bound to be a major part of this campaign.

[Jingthing]

I am not familiar with Lapid but my first impression of him is that he lacks political charisma appeal? True or not? I can see that Netanyahu believe it or not has a kind of charisma going on but maybe lost in translation.

[Ulysses G.]

Netanyahu has plenty of charisma. I've been a fan since long before he was important politically, when he used to appear on American TV as a spokesman. However, I know little to nothing about inside Israel politics.

[Morch]

I am not familiar with Lapid but my first impression of him is that he lacks political charisma appeal? True or not? I can see that Netanyahu believe it or not has a kind of charisma going on but maybe lost in translation.

Apart from being a columnist and a talk show host, Lapid got zero credentials. Not even a high-school diploma.

But looks, an anti-orthodox Jewish platform, promises to improve life for the middle class, and a political vacuum were

enough to score big time. Doesn't reflect so much on Lapid, as on the sorry state of Israeli politics and leadership.

Like all politicians, looks wear off when in office, improving the economy proved troublesome, getting at the orthodox Jews

was only partially successful and as time went by he quickly lost whatever charm he had.

Israel gets one of them supermarket center parties once in a while, usually as a reaction to stalemate between traditional

left and right wing parties, and as an expression of public being fed up with politicians' antics. Historically, the life-time of

these parties is rather limited. Probably got to do with not having a clear ideological platform, and being more ad-hoc in

nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yair_Lapid

[JDGRUEN]

Netanyahu has plenty of charisma. I've been a fan since long before he was important politically, when he used to appear on American TV as a spokesman. However, I know little to nothing about inside Israel politics.

Netanyahu - has that old fashion 'Grit' but is also blessed with calm demeanor ... a combination not often found in a politician and a National Leader... And in English -- an extremely deft communicator... no teleprompters needed.

And we in America have obama -- How embarrassing ...