What Are His Chances?

[sipi]

I am starting to realize how naive, and lucky I am; or maybe the old "gut feeling" kicked in.

I married my partner on the spot, put everything in both names, and let her know she is better of if I am dead (accidentally).

That was 9 years ago, and I am still here.

All good........

[IAMHERE]

sadly, if her name are on the deeds and the logbook....its HER house and HER car.....and now he's wasting money on lawyers. I hope the judge sees fit to force to give something back, out of a sense of simple fair play, but to the letter of the law, ID suggest there's no chance, no hope and no money :-(...........

This may well be true, however she broke the law by using hismoney to buy the house, right? I thought even married couple can't buy a house in her name unless she can prove how she got that much money to purchase a house.

[denby45]

Not a single person who has responded to this thread so far knows what they are talking about.

There's just a lot of misinformation and ignorance amongst the ex-patriate community about how it works.

After following the TV forums for a few weeks now it does seem to be the case that thankfully whilst there are a few extremely knowledgeable members posting, the vast majority seem to be made up of armchair detectives, wannabee lawyers, bigots, xenophobes, sexists, racists and grumpy old men.

If these people are all actually living in Thailand as ex-pats, I'm beginning to undertsand why so many Thais tend to inwardly regard foreigners with contempt - even if most are far too polite to outwardly show it.

And you contribution to the discussion is..............?

Den

[Gentmartin]

sadly, if her name are on the deeds and the logbook....its HER house and HER car.....and now he's wasting money on lawyers. I hope the judge sees fit to force to give something back, out of a sense of simple fair play, but to the letter of the law, ID suggest there's no chance, no hope and no money :-(...........

This may well be true, however she broke the law by using hismoney to buy the house, right? I thought even married couple can't buy a house in her name unless she can prove how she got that much money to purchase a house.

Well, Ive read that here also but my experience from buying a small condo with my wife (in her name) was that no one asked her or us where the money was coming from. I simply transferred it to her account then paid them, No problem. She does work and isnt reliant on me for support but no one ever asked about that,

[Gentmartin]

Not a single person who has responded to this thread so far knows what they are talking about.

There's just a lot of misinformation and ignorance amongst the ex-patriate community about how it works.

After following the TV forums for a few weeks now it does seem to be the case that thankfully whilst there are a few extremely knowledgeable members posting, the vast majority seem to be made up of armchair detectives, wannabee lawyers, bigots, xenophobes, sexists, racists and grumpy old men.

If these people are all actually living in Thailand as ex-pats, I'm beginning to undertsand why so many Thais tend to inwardly regard foreigners with contempt - even if most are far too polite to outwardly show it.

And you contribution to the discussion is..............?

Den

in answer to your question..........

judgemental self-righteousness ..........

[Gecko123]

Not a single person who responded to this thread knows what they are talking about.

The fact is that under Thai law if either party to the relationship can prove that the assets used to purchase the property during the relationship were owned by that party prior to the relationship, the courts will rule that the property belongs to that party. This is irrespective of whether the parties were married, living together as boyfriend/girlfriend.

I have been through a similar property dispute here in Thailand. Thailand's courts are as reputable as those in Western countries.

A bit hard saying no one on here knows what they are talking about. And no where did anyone say they were not reputable

However, as you point out, ' the fact is that under Thai law if either party to the relationship can prove that the assets used to purchase the property during the relationship were owned by that party prior to the relationship, the courts will rule that the property belongs to that party '

Can you explain how this can be proved, and if it can be proved, upheld IF (and the posters are assuming this) the car and house particularly are in her name. Id suggest if they were in his name, he'd simply have thrown her out of the house (or had the police do it) and jusr driven off in his car.

Well done to you for fighting and winning, you are most definitely in the minority in such cases as so many other I'm sure would testify.

Dear Gentmartin:

Each case would depend on the circumstances. In my case I used bank records which showed that the payments for the property were made from an individual bank account in my name, and all of the deposits into that Thai account could be traced back to an off-shore account in my name and that those assets were in that account pre-dating my marriage to my Thai spouse.

Several posters said that the courts would automatically side with the Thai national against the foreigner. My comments regarding the reputableness of the Thai judiciary were aimed at those suggesting that the courts here have an automatic bias against foreigners.

[catman20]

I see lots of comments on this post ( interesting ) i have to say why are there so many stupid farangs !!!!!!

why would you put your house and car in your g/f's name its not necessary relationship change over time and finances, when will these fool learn.

have zero sympathy for him

[catman20]

why would you put your car and house in your g/f's name its not necessary, relationships change over time and finances why are there so many fools here in Thailand ?

I have zero sympathy for him

[catman20]

zero sympathy for him

[catman20]

I see lots of comments on this post ( interesting ) i have to say why are there so many stupid farangs here in thailand !!!!!!

why would you put your house and car in your g/f's name its not necessary relationship change over time and finances, when will these fools learn.

have zero sympathy for him

[RustBucket]

sadly, if her name are on the deeds and the logbook....its HER house and HER car.....and now he's wasting money on lawyers. I hope the judge sees fit to force to give something back, out of a sense of simple fair play, but to the letter of the law, ID suggest there's no chance, no hope and no money :-(...........

This also is not true.

Irrespective of whose name the property is registered in, if another party can prove that the property was purchased with assets belonging to them, then the courts will rule that the property belongs to that person.

Consider for example, an epileptic who can not get a driver's license which was a pre-requisite for purchase of a car. The eplieptic gives money to a third party to purchase the car for them, and the third party registers the car in the third party's name.

Of course once the courts see proof that it was really the epileptic who paid for the car, the courts will rule that the car belongs to the epilepetic, not the third party in whose name the vehicle is registered.

All sensible logical stuff but you are stepping on the toes of the anti-thais !!

Out of interest, how do you define 'anti-Thai'?

I mean, obviously you are an apologist, and a bit more politically correct than most. But do you realise how the average Thai sees YOU?

Any comments for Thais who see farang as meal tickets, crime targets, clueless, buffalo, or just see them as walking ATM machines with no feelings. There for the taking so to speak.

I think you may be a bit surprised just how many think this way. It may leave you red faced.

People who know the score on how to live here relatively safely and not be taken for a complete mug are not anti-Thai... far from it, they are just streetwise and smarter than yourself.

[arrowsdawdle]

Well its 2pm so hes either out celebrating or too embarrassed to admit defeat on fbook?

He does have one recourse, though, if the trial fails....cut a deal offering a nice percentage for getting all or most of it back to the nearest Nigerian he can find.

[Gringogazzer]

On the little information the OP has everyone has to speculate as to the details. But going on how many stories go.

He's not married, no 50% rule. Only what he can prove is outright his.

But if he bought the land it would be in her name & no court in Thailand can award him that land, it's hers.

The house, dubious, but I doubt he has a lease agreement with her for the land the house sits on. Can ask him to leave at any point.

Car in her name, gift, it's hers.

Big ticket items wrapped up I doubt there will be pics of him breaking open bottles of champagne in the middle of the road with his big screen TV & bed.

No law protects a fool & his money.

But all speculation on details.

[BritManToo]

On the little information the OP has everyone has to speculate as to the details. But going on how many stories go.

He's not married, no 50% rule. Only what he can prove is outright his.

But if he bought the land it would be in her name & no court in Thailand can award him that land, it's hers.

The house, dubious, but I doubt he has a lease agreement with her for the land the house sits on. Can ask him to leave at any point.

Car in her name, gift, it's hers.

Big ticket items wrapped up I doubt there will be pics of him breaking open bottles of champagne in the middle of the road with his big screen TV & bed.

No law protects a fool & his money.

But all speculation on details.

As I said previously, a pal of mine has a court order for his gf to sell the house and return 50% of the money he put in.

Not married, gf., house and land all in her name.

A minimum monthly payment has been set, she can pay more if she sells.

Effectively, she pays him rent until the money is returned.

Judge said he was generous only asking for 50%.

Problem on this forum, too many losers, the losers give up without a fight.

Edited December 4, 2014 by BritManToo

[Shadychris]

Not a single person who has responded to this thread so far knows what they are talking about.

There's just a lot of misinformation and ignorance amongst the ex-patriate community about how it works.

After following the TV forums for a few weeks now it does seem to be the case that thankfully whilst there are a few extremely knowledgeable members posting, the vast majority seem to be made up of armchair detectives, wannabee lawyers, bigots, xenophobes, sexists, racists and grumpy old men.

If these people are all actually living in Thailand as ex-pats, I'm beginning to undertsand why so many Thais tend to inwardly regard foreigners with contempt - even if most are far too polite to outwardly show it.

And you contribution to the discussion is..............?

Den

My contribution to the 'discussion' on the topic at hand as started by the OP is zero - becuase I am not a 'qualified' expert in the Thai legal system. Nor do I even have 'personal' experience of such a situation, and by that I dont mean my mate's mate's brother in law went through something like that and I heard about it fourth hand while drunk in the bar.

As my post indicated there are some very knowledgeable people who might comment, but as I do not consider myself knowledgeable in this area I choose not to offer some ill-informed opinion on the matter. Hopefully by merely endorsing Geckos post I will not align myself as one of the types I describe in the second group, and possibly help raise awareness that the picture often painted about many aspects of Thai life on this forum is often far removed from the reality. So maybe that IS actually a worthwhile contribution ;-)

[Gringogazzer]

On the little information the OP has everyone has to speculate as to the details. But going on how many stories go.

He's not married, no 50% rule. Only what he can prove is outright his.

But if he bought the land it would be in her name & no court in Thailand can award him that land, it's hers.

The house, dubious, but I doubt he has a lease agreement with her for the land the house sits on. Can ask him to leave at any point.

Car in her name, gift, it's hers.

Big ticket items wrapped up I doubt there will be pics of him breaking open bottles of champagne in the middle of the road with his big screen TV & bed.

No law protects a fool & his money.

But all speculation on details.

As I said previously, a pal of mine has a court order for his gf to sell the house and return 50% of the money he put in.

Not married, gf., house and land all in her name.

A minimum monthly payment has been set, she can pay more if she sells.

Effectively, she pays him rent until the money is returned.

Judge said he was generous only asking for 50%.

Problem on this forum, too many losers, the losers give up without a fight.

I've not walked this road before & that's the first time I've heard of an outcome like that. Always pretty much as I stated.

I'm happy to be corrected & hope it bodes well for the future.

[n210mp]

I am starting to realize how naive, and lucky I am; or maybe the old "gut feeling" kicked in.

I married my partner on the spot, put everything in both names, and let her know she is better of if I am dead (accidentally).

That was 9 years ago, and I am still here.

All good........

Its nice to hear from a person with balls and also that there are others like me who also put 100% into the relationship.

Yes I agree with him that there is a lot of luck in getting the right lady but maybe if she wasn't the right lady he wouldn't have had that gut feeling

When I look at the quality of some of the DHs who are married to lovely Thai ladies in my area I am amazed that these ladies put up with their husbands antics but then again on this forum we only hear one side of the story when the Thai lady comes to her senses and gets rid of their spouse, dont we?

And yes before the dissenters rip my opinion to bits I accept that there are gold diggers and ExPat fools , the combnation feed one and leads the other into poverty and bitterness

[crazygreg44]

I am starting to realize how naive, and lucky I am; or maybe the old "gut feeling" kicked in.

I married my partner on the spot, put everything in both names, and let her know she is better of if I am dead (accidentally).

That was 9 years ago, and I am still here.

All good........

Its nice to hear from a person with balls and also that there are others like me who also put 100% into the relationship.

Yes I agree with him that there is a lot of luck in getting the right lady but maybe if she wasn't the right lady he wouldn't have had that gut feeling

When I look at the quality of some of the DHs who are married to lovely Thai ladies in my area I am amazed that these ladies put up with their husbands antics but then again on this forum we only hear one side of the story when the Thai lady comes to her senses and gets rid of their spouse, dont we?

And yes before the dissenters rip my opinion to bits I accept that there are gold diggers and ExPat fools , the combnation feed one and leads the other into poverty and bitterness

can't more than agree.

It's not only luck in geting the right partner, it involves to visit upcountry, get known to her relatives and look through her family status, see how many brothers and sisters she has, and nail down with her a mutual contract that excludes suppiort for sick water buffaloes, before you commit yourself to a thai woman. Just play your thing in the open. And it will come back in the open.

only when your guts tell you that this can't be the right thing, then it's time to trust your gut feelings.

your doubts need to be scaled down to zero. Tell you, even that is VERY complicated. Who has a crystal ball ?

But to enter a relationship that starts on distrust, that's a bad thing playing cricket with your mind every other day. Do you really ask for this ?

Thhat's why I would ask everybody to play the game though, seek what she is about and explain that your comitment is going to last.

NO WOMAN IN THIS WORLD IS GOING TO SPEND HER MOST PRECIOUS TIME ( when she is still beautiful) WITH A LOOSER UTTERING PROMISES ONLY

keep that in mind. understand HER side

[arrowsdawdle]

A good attorney in a court away from where she has local influence may be able to show that she did not have the money to buy the property and that she acted as a proxy buyer for him which is illegal. And with a proper motion could possibly cause the court to order all the property to be liquidated for a cash settlement, especially if he offers to pay the court a nice sum from the settlement that would otherwise go to her, to set aside any punishment of her for acting as a proxy in the purchase. This is a noble thing to do, puts cash in the hands of the court, and solves all the other problems.

[crazygreg44]

A good attorney in a court away from where she has local influence may be able to show that she did not have the money to buy the property and that she acted as a proxy buyer for him which is illegal. And with a proper motion could possibly cause the court to order all the property to be liquidated for a cash settlement, especially if he offers to pay the court a nice sum from the settlement that would otherwise go to her, to set aside any punishment of her for acting as a proxy in the purchase. This is a noble thing to do, puts cash in the hands of the court, and solves all the other problems.

so to speak, you are openly promoting to offer the court members a bribe for deciding in your favour.

Admin, please delete this post

Aint' no way to conduct business here

Edited December 4, 2014 by crazygreg44

[ggt]

I think you need to watch your back if you are trying to recover joint assets with a Thai GF...some farangs lose more than a few assets...they lose their axx...

[benalibina]

A good attorney in a court away from where she has local influence may be able to show that she did not have the money to buy the property and that she acted as a proxy buyer for him which is illegal. And with a proper motion could possibly cause the court to order all the property to be liquidated for a cash settlement, especially if he offers to pay the court a nice sum from the settlement that would otherwise go to her, to set aside any punishment of her for acting as a proxy in the purchase. This is a noble thing to do, puts cash in the hands of the court, and solves all the other problems.

so to speak, you are openly promoting to offer the court members a bribe for deciding in your favour.

Admin, please delete this post

Aint' no way to conduct business here

Sorry.....you must be utterly naive by making that comment. Its how things are done here....more often than not.

Money rules.....justice and morality come way after that......unfortunately IMO.

I know of a a couple of guys who are dealing with the Thai judicial system, lawyers and courts, money and thai helping thais rules.

Eventhough Gecko and BMT state positive results, it for sure is NOT that a foreigner is treated equal as a Thai.

[Gecko123]

On the little information the OP has everyone has to speculate as to the details. But going on how many stories go.

He's not married, no 50% rule. Only what he can prove is outright his.

But if he bought the land it would be in her name & no court in Thailand can award him that land, it's hers.

The house, dubious, but I doubt he has a lease agreement with her for the land the house sits on. Can ask him to leave at any point.

Car in her name, gift, it's hers.

Big ticket items wrapped up I doubt there will be pics of him breaking open bottles of champagne in the middle of the road with his big screen TV & bed.

No law protects a fool & his money.

But all speculation on details.

Thai law states that in the event of divorce everything "obtained" during the marriage is to be split 50/50. BUT "obtained" does not mean "purchased."

"Obtained" means acquired in the sense of "obtained through the fruits of labor or effort." It definitely does not automatically mean everything you purchased during your marriage.

For example, let's say you have 100,000 in the bank before you get married. After marriage, you use that 100,000 to purchase property (land included). In the event of divorce, under Thai law, the purchased property is your individual property - - not marital property which needs to be divided 50/50. That property belongs 100% to you.

However, let's say you owned a business prior to marriage. Under Thai law, all of the income for that business which was received during the marriage would be considered marital property. The same is true if you own financial assets which generate interest income and capital gains. The financial assets are considered your personal property, but the interest income and capital gains received during the marriage would be considered marital property and would be subject to a 50/50 division in the event of divorce. The only way someone can protect themselves from this would be to enter into a pre-nuptial agreement before the marriage.

Regarding land purchased in violation of Thailand's land law, the current law (based on a Thailand Supreme court decision) states that a foreigner who purchases land in violation of land law does not forfeit his interest in that real property. Because land law provides a mechanism for correcting a violation of land law violation (forced sale by the Land office), the foreigner's interests in the land can be protected. Under former Thai law, the courts previously ruled that because a foreigner's interest in land violated land law and was therefore illegal, those illegal interests were unenforceable under the law. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A person who lied to the land office about whose assets were used to purchase the land might be subject to prosecution for lying to the government official, but that doesn't mean that they automatically forfeit their rights to the land.

To understand Thai marital property law, you have to understand that there are actually two definitions. One definition defines what is "marital property" and the second definition defines what is "individual property". You have to understand BOTH definitions to understand how Thai marital property law works. You need to read carefully how "individual property" is defined. This is the key to understanding how the law works.

Many people (including a shocking number of Thai lawyers) only read the first definition of what constitutes marital property. They see the word "obtains" and erroneously assume that "obtains" means anything purchased during the marriage. This is completely incorrect, and you can see this for yourself by reading the definition of individual property in the marital property section of the Thai civil code.

Think about it. If "obtained" meant everything "purchased" during the marriage, this would encourage people to marry, quickly purchase property and then divorce in order to reap a windfall by being able to immediately able to claim a 50% financial interest of everything purchased. This would be totally destabilizing to families (especially children) and would be terribly damaging to society.

Thai marital property law provides no such incentive for people to marry in order to obtain this type of financial windfall, and in my opinion is quite equitable and fair to both parties.

[CapeThai]

I am married to a Thai and have been for 3 years now.

I made sure I lived here for 2 years before marrying her, just to make sure I knew all about her, and even though I have the money in my UK bank, I have never brought more than a few hundred thousand baht here at any one time. I have my own Thai bank account and the money is in there. She has an ATM card, but if she were to dump me and systematically attempt to empty the account, i would have the card cancelled and the most she could get is 20K.

I have also bought the house on a 30 year mortgage even though I can buy it outright, I feel safer on a mortgage, as well as the car I have got it over 7 year loan...

So if she dumped me, she is welcome to the house and car and all the future payments that go along with it.

Those who buy houses and cars outright are playing a dangerous game.

I totally trust my wife, but nobody knows what is in the future.

Very Wise move mate, I'm planning on implicating similar financial structure next year.

Rather safe than sorry & broke...... +++++ You know she's with you for you only as she's already aware there is nothing really to walk away with..

[CapeThai]

A good attorney in a court away from where she has local influence may be able to show that she did not have the money to buy the property and that she acted as a proxy buyer for him which is illegal. And with a proper motion could possibly cause the court to order all the property to be liquidated for a cash settlement, especially if he offers to pay the court a nice sum from the settlement that would otherwise go to her, to set aside any punishment of her for acting as a proxy in the purchase. This is a noble thing to do, puts cash in the hands of the court, and solves all the other problems.

so to speak, you are openly promoting to offer the court members a bribe for deciding in your favour.

Admin, please delete this post

Aint' no way to conduct business here

Sorry.....you must be utterly naive by making that comment. Its how things are done here....more often than not.

Money rules.....justice and morality come way after that......unfortunately IMO.

I know of a a couple of guys who are dealing with the Thai judicial system, lawyers and courts, money and thai helping thais rules.

Eventhough Gecko and BMT state positive results, it for sure is NOT that a foreigner is treated equal as a Thai.

Hey ting tong greg44, why requesting Admin to delete the mans post ? He's just saying it like it is buddy.... nothing wrong with this.

If Admin was Thai he would most probably also ask you what's in it for him........get my drift ???

[damo]

I have heard before of farang married to Thai's having to declare in writing to the land office that they have no interest in the property. Has anyone else? how would that sit? in this situation if he was married?

[Braddockrd]

I am married to a Thai and have been for 3 years now.

I made sure I lived here for 2 years before marrying her, just to make sure I knew all about her, and even though I have the money in my UK bank, I have never brought more than a few hundred thousand baht here at any one time. I have my own Thai bank account and the money is in there. She has an ATM card, but if she were to dump me and systematically attempt to empty the account, i would have the card cancelled and the most she could get is 20K.

I have also bought the house on a 30 year mortgage even though I can buy it outright, I feel safer on a mortgage, as well as the car I have got it over 7 year loan...

So if she dumped me, she is welcome to the house and car and all the future payments that go along with it.

Those who buy houses and cars outright are playing a dangerous game.

I totally trust my wife, but nobody knows what is in the future.

Here is a wise man. One of the few

[Braddockrd]

On the little information the OP has everyone has to speculate as to the details. But going on how many stories go.

He's not married, no 50% rule. Only what he can prove is outright his.

But if he bought the land it would be in her name & no court in Thailand can award him that land, it's hers.

The house, dubious, but I doubt he has a lease agreement with her for the land the house sits on. Can ask him to leave at any point.

Car in her name, gift, it's hers.

Big ticket items wrapped up I doubt there will be pics of him breaking open bottles of champagne in the middle of the road with his big screen TV & bed.

No law protects a fool & his money.

But all speculation on details.

Thai law states that in the event of divorce everything "obtained" during the marriage is to be split 50/50. BUT "obtained" does not mean "purchased."

"Obtained" means acquired in the sense of "obtained through the fruits of labor or effort." It definitely does not automatically mean everything you purchased during your marriage.

For example, let's say you have 100,000 in the bank before you get married. After marriage, you use that 100,000 to purchase property (land included). In the event of divorce, under Thai law, the purchased property is your individual property - - not marital property which needs to be divided 50/50. That property belongs 100% to you.

However, let's say you owned a business prior to marriage. Under Thai law, all of the income for that business which was received during the marriage would be considered marital property. The same is true if you own financial assets which generate interest income and capital gains. The financial assets are considered your personal property, but the interest income and capital gains received during the marriage would be considered marital property and would be subject to a 50/50 division in the event of divorce. The only way someone can protect themselves from this would be to enter into a pre-nuptial agreement before the marriage.

Regarding land purchased in violation of Thailand's land law, the current law (based on a Thailand Supreme court decision) states that a foreigner who purchases land in violation of land law does not forfeit his interest in that real property. Because land law provides a mechanism for correcting a violation of land law violation (forced sale by the Land office), the foreigner's interests in the land can be protected. Under former Thai law, the courts previously ruled that because a foreigner's interest in land violated land law and was therefore illegal, those illegal interests were unenforceable under the law. THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE. A person who lied to the land office about whose assets were used to purchase the land might be subject to prosecution for lying to the government official, but that doesn't mean that they automatically forfeit their rights to the land.

To understand Thai marital property law, you have to understand that there are actually two definitions. One definition defines what is "marital property" and the second definition defines what is "individual property". You have to understand BOTH definitions to understand how Thai marital property law works. You need to read carefully how "individual property" is defined. This is the key to understanding how the law works.

Many people (including a shocking number of Thai lawyers) only read the first definition of what constitutes marital property. They see the word "obtains" and erroneously assume that "obtains" means anything purchased during the marriage. This is completely incorrect, and you can see this for yourself by reading the definition of individual property in the marital property section of the Thai civil code.

Think about it. If "obtained" meant everything "purchased" during the marriage, this would encourage people to marry, quickly purchase property and then divorce in order to reap a windfall by being able to immediately able to claim a 50% financial interest of everything purchased. This would be totally destabilizing to families (especially children) and would be terribly damaging to society.

Thai marital property law provides no such incentive for people to marry in order to obtain this type of financial windfall, and in my opinion is quite equitable and fair to both parties.

You are completely off topic dude. This guy ain't married!

[Braddockrd]

I think you need to watch your back if you are trying to recover joint assets with a Thai GF...some farangs lose more than a few assets...they lose their axx...

You betcha. Especially when you are dealing with prostitutes and the scum that sorround them, as I am sure most of these folks are

[MAJIC]

So what do you think his chances are?--RustBucket

.

Probably has 2 chances ...Fat & Slim.....................................

A snowballs chance in hell!