Surge of reported police harassment suggests campaign targeting tourists, expats

[granuaile]

A lot of people in this forum think Thailand is their personal playground, a place to party, do drugs, get laid, walk down the street with a beer in each hand

"walk down the street with a beer in each hand"?

So you deny seeing things others are seeing and yet you're seeing things others are not seeing... utterly bizarre postings from you in this topic.

Utterly ridiculous post noted

[newcomer71]

I hope you are not talking about me, because I strongly agree law have to be enforced. But living here for more than 10 years made me learn that that's a rare case, sadly.

Welcome any crackdown and law enforcement for ANY kind of crime! Security is all we want I think.

But exploiting and condemnation of every bribe or extortion episode is our duty!

No, not talking about you or even necessarily any particular person, but I think a lot of this thread and the so-called reports (most of which I don't believe are credible) of police abuses of stop and search is motivated by several factors - 1) people who are involved in illegal activities trying to make it into an issue to tie the hands of police, 2) a certain mentality that perceives Thailand with a racist and colonialist mentality and "how dare they interfere with my fun", 3) a desire to discredit the current government (which I think is the predominant motivation here), and 4) the group that always shows up here to condemn Thailand ("Suicide, yeah right?" "Thai people hate farang" etc). Anyway my experience here in Thailand has been a positive one. Maybe that is because Thailand interjected itself into my life long before I ever had a chance to visit the country. My undergrad years I majored in Asian studies, but none of the courses touched on Thailand, but in life, after graduate school, Thailand and I became very intertwined. I have noted that there is an element in many online forums that see Thailand in a light tinted by racism and colonialism ("It's ours, how dare they make us obey the law") not beyond comparison to a document I read in the National Archives of Malaysia where the British wanted to charge the Sultana for a license to have a radio! Thailand is not a colony, not a sex playground. It is a great and proud country that welcomes those who respect it, and those who do not respect it the question arises why are they here? I am here because it is home...

I'm here because is my home as well, and of course whoever likes to bash on Thailand and Thais on every occasion is just a sad individual. Until here we agree.

You are even free to not believe in reports (besides some of them are grossly exaggerated, I concede that), but can't tell EVERY report is fake. I had first hand reports and I strongly believe my friend and my 2 colleagues.

One of my 2 colleagues was even on first trip to Thailand and felt really threatened and make demand to our HQ to NOT come back to Bangkok ever again. You can imagine the consequences of people being harassed and talking about their experience when they will be back at their home country...

And believe me, not one of the person I know have been harassed is a druggie, a parvenu, a fan of the sex-o-meter places. So it's good to make a distinction of cases where police try to do their job, and cases where people try to extort money.

We had lots of bad examples in the past and that does not play in favor of the RTP.

Now, me and you live in Thailand and know that it can happen, but sure SHOULD NOT happen. And if no one do much, I feel anyway it;s my duty to report what happens here, and suggest to avoid that area. Said that, I love Thailand and this is the place where I will live the rest of my life.

Wishing it to be a better place, does not mean to hate it, at opposite.

Peace.

[John1thru10]

I hope you are not talking about me, because I strongly agree law have to be enforced. But living here for more than 10 years made me learn that that's a rare case, sadly.

Welcome any crackdown and law enforcement for ANY kind of crime! Security is all we want I think.

But exploiting and condemnation of every bribe or extortion episode is our duty!

No, not talking about you or even necessarily any particular person, but I think a lot of this thread and the so-called reports (most of which I don't believe are credible) of police abuses of stop and search is motivated by several factors - 1) people who are involved in illegal activities trying to make it into an issue to tie the hands of police, 2) a certain mentality that perceives Thailand with a racist and colonialist mentality and "how dare they interfere with my fun", 3) a desire to discredit the current government (which I think is the predominant motivation here), and 4) the group that always shows up here to condemn Thailand ("Suicide, yeah right?" "Thai people hate farang" etc). Anyway my experience here in Thailand has been a positive one. Maybe that is because Thailand interjected itself into my life long before I ever had a chance to visit the country. My undergrad years I majored in Asian studies, but none of the courses touched on Thailand, but in life, after graduate school, Thailand and I became very intertwined. I have noted that there is an element in many online forums that see Thailand in a light tinted by racism and colonialism ("It's ours, how dare they make us obey the law") not beyond comparison to a document I read in the National Archives of Malaysia where the British wanted to charge the Sultana for a license to have a radio! Thailand is not a colony, not a sex playground. It is a great and proud country that welcomes those who respect it, and those who do not respect it the question arises why are they here? I am here because it is home...

Of course it's not 'substantiated', it's street intimidation and bribery. Other than whole facebook pages having been created to hold the accounts, several blogs, several threads and news articles overseas, what could be more substantiated about it? Scores of detailed videos of every word exchanged? Not possible. People with enough experience here know these things happen, and not always to 'people who think of Bangkok as their personal playground'...blah blah judgemental blah blah.

If you're so utterly convinced it's not real, then let it go. This isn't a debate on Huffingtonpost about something, it's a thread for people who want to avoid being shaken down during wild political times. It's not your 'personal' city, either.

[granuaile]

I'm here because is my home as well, and of course whoever likes to bash on Thailand and Thais on every occasion is just a sad individual. Until here we agree.

You are even free to not believe in reports (besides some of them are grossly exaggerated, I concede that), but can't tell EVERY report is fake. I had first hand reports and I strongly believe my friend and my 2 colleagues.

One of my 2 colleagues was even on first trip to Thailand and felt really threatened and make demand to our HQ to NOT come back to Bangkok ever again. You can imagine the consequences of people being harassed and talking about their experience when they will be back at their home country...

And believe me, not one of the person I know have been harassed is a druggie, a parvenu, a fan of the sex-o-meter places. So it's good to make a distinction of cases where police try to do their job, and cases where people try to extort money.

We had lots of bad examples in the past and that does not play in favor of the RTP.

Now, me and you live in Thailand and know that it can happen, but sure SHOULD NOT happen. And if no one do much, I feel anyway it;s my duty to report what happens here, and suggest to avoid that area. Said that, I love Thailand and this is the place where I will live the rest of my life.

Wishing it to be a better place, does not mean to hate it, at opposite.

Peace.

I don't discount your account, or even that of being forced to drink 4 liters of water (though not sure possible), and I am not saying justifiable in any situation... Just saying this thread is exaggerating what is, and mostly is motivated by those who wish to harm the current government, which i admit I support....

[granuaile]

John1thru10 so uncredible

[granuaile]

Of course it's not 'substantiated', it's street intimidation and bribery. Other than whole facebook pages having been created to hold the accounts, several blogs, several threads and news articles overseas, what could be more substantiated about it? Scores of detailed videos of every word exchanged? Not possible. People with enough experience here know these things happen, and not always to 'people who think of Bangkok as their personal playground'...blah blah judgemental blah blah.

If you're so utterly convinced it's not real, then let it go. This isn't a debate on Huffingtonpost about something, it's a thread for people who want to avoid being shaken down during wild political times. It's not your 'personal' city, either.

Interesting u mention that, Arianna Huffington once posted in a poll I started and everyone started bashing her ... Mob mentality is quite interesting...

[jspill]

The first urine testing was a middle aged married Indian couple, no? The one that made the news. Hardly the stereotypical evil white male grannyuile is envisaging.

[granuaile]

If you're so utterly convinced it's not real, then let it go. This isn't a debate on Huffingtonpost about something, it's a thread for people who want to avoid being shaken down during wild political times. It's not your 'personal' city, either.

What you mean is:

"Please don't contradict those of us against PM Prayuth and the road Thailand is on and who will grab any opportunity to bash Thailand and its institutions" Who knows? Maybe the poster who suggested I was a Thai spy was right?

[granuaile]

The first urine testing was a middle aged married Indian couple, no? The one that made the news. Hardly the stereotypical evil white male grannyuile is envisaging.

Provide a link please

[granuaile]

Peace.

Peace

[granuaile]

C'mon guys. Ugly, fat, old, ginger and fascist. What's not to like?

Proudly ginger and fat (in that order)

[granuaile]

C'mon guys. Ugly, fat, old, ginger and fascist. What's not to like?

Proudly ginger and fat (in that order)

But I dispute ugly and fascist...

[jspill]

Yesterday were reports of 70 year old Indian couples being scammed by these mafia-in-brown.

Can't recall for sure if I read it in a news link, I'll try to find.

[granuaile]

Yesterday were reports of 70 year old Indian couples being scammed by these mafia-in-brown.

Can't recall for sure if I read it in a news link, I'll try to find.

Please do... I only saw mentioned here as an allegation, not fact...

[jspill]

Yesterday were reports of 70 year old Indian couples being scammed by these mafia-in-brown.

Can't recall for sure if I read it in a news link, I'll try to find.

Please do... I only saw mentioned here as an allegation, not fact...

Well it still wouldn't be fact if it was in the news would it, it would just be a news report of a report they deemed credible to report.

Roadside drug tests are usually going to be unsubstantiated reports unless the whole thing is filmed, hence this current debate over whether we're sensationalising this, or you're playing it down, or both.

[granuaile]

Interesting you mention that, because Huffington Post just did a feature on me 3 months ago, and they (their world section this time) along with the NY Times last week asked for interviews about my living in Bangkok (as an artist), and I was debating with myself whether I should make these recent events the subject of those interviews. I think people deserve to hear about it, outside.

Of course, you'll provide us with the links...

[Gumballl]

Thats not all folks - Reports on DSBKK today say they are stopping tourists coming in at the Airport for having too many cigarettes, which seems plausible since there is a limit.

But wait!

They waited until the tourists walked outside the airport before they pounced, searched bags, found 3 packs of cigarettes, then fined them 10,000 baht!

But why outside the airport? Surely the Xray and customs officials inside the airport is the usual place for this?

Oh right - the 10,000 baht fine was Corruption tea money

I don't smoke, and I detest those that do. So, sorry, no sympathy here.

[jspill]

I was thinking of Reese Walker in the article in OP http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/12/04/surge-reported-police-harassment-suggests-campaign-targeting-tourists-expats

He wrote into a newspaper that can't be linked on thaivisa. Reporting a roadside urine testing of himself and fiancee.

White engaged couple, not a married Indian couple, misremembered.

[granuaile]

Interesting you mention that, because Huffington Post just did a feature on me 3 months ago, and they (their world section this time) along with the NY Times last week asked for interviews about my living in Bangkok (as an artist), and I was debating with myself whether I should make these recent events the subject of those interviews. I think people deserve to hear about it, outside.

Of course, you'll provide us with the links...

I guess in your mind it must be another unsubstantiated false report, huh? You're very tiresome lady, because you argue just to be obstinate and for attention. I've tried blocking you. I'll have to try that again, because you're offensive.

So where is ur link? Evidence? Substantiation....? I don't care if u block me, wish u could... I don't argue for attention! I argue because I believe...

[Chicog]

Thats not all folks - Reports on DSBKK today say they are stopping tourists coming in at the Airport for having too many cigarettes, which seems plausible since there is a limit.

But wait!

They waited until the tourists walked outside the airport before they pounced, searched bags, found 3 packs of cigarettes, then fined them 10,000 baht!

But why outside the airport? Surely the Xray and customs officials inside the airport is the usual place for this?

Oh right - the 10,000 baht fine was Corruption tea money

I don't smoke, and I detest those that do. So, sorry, no sympathy here.

Speaking as someone who was a bit naughty one year, they spotted me in the lift going over to Don Muang domestic, after I'd been outside. There was no-one around and I did offer to "settle it", but they'd have none of it.

Of course with inflation and stuff, they would probably be more amenable to negotiate these days.

[John1thru10]

there is no law in any country that you have to carry your passport,

there is a law that you have to indentify yourselve, so you can use your ID card or Driver License, International Driver License

for foreigner living here Thai Driver license is enough because all data are on the DL,

only if you are supected to comitted a crime or your ID is not correct they can force you for passport.

even Thai bank accept DL for indentification, they give me a new VisaCard in Koh Samui even my branch is in Chiang Mai,

i had only DL with me and bankbook,

dont scare too much when meet police,

You must have a vast knowledge of the laws of every country! Kudos to you for knowing it all.

Btw, should we worship you, or is it ok to laugh at you?

As a point of fact, Gumball, the head of immigration said (I think it was just about one month ago) that no visitor to Bangkok needs to carry their actual passport with them, when walking around. He said a copy is sufficient.

Now - not to say I 'know everything' - but I am pointing out to you a statement issued by the head of immigration last month. You can look it up here, if you need to, as it was quite the issue for a week or so. is that factual enough for you?

Edited December 7, 2014 by John1thru10

[granuaile]

there is no law in any country that you have to carry your passport,

there is a law that you have to indentify yourselve, so you can use your ID card or Driver License, International Driver License

for foreigner living here Thai Driver license is enough because all data are on the DL,

only if you are supected to comitted a crime or your ID is not correct they can force you for passport.

even Thai bank accept DL for indentification, they give me a new VisaCard in Koh Samui even my branch is in Chiang Mai,

i had only DL with me and bankbook,

dont scare too much when meet police,

You must have a vast knowledge of the laws of every country! Kudos to you for knowing it all.

Btw, should we worship you, or is it ok to laugh at you?

As a point of fact, Gumball, the head of immigration said (I think it was just about one month ago) that no visitor to Bangkok needs to carry their actual passport with them, when walking around. He said a copy is sufficient.

Now - not to say I 'know everything' - but I am pointing out to you a statement issued by the head of immigration last month? is that factual enough for you?

So try it I carry mine, in a zip-lock baggie ever since it got wet (and survived OMG)....

Edited December 7, 2014 by granuaile

[John1thru10]

You're hopeless, lady. People like you are the reason I left America, actually.

So you can't stand gutsy ladies?

I like gutsy ladies. You're just being a weird troll, though. Shouting meaningless propaganda and making fun of people for a serious topic which apparently you aren't able to grasp.

Edited December 7, 2014 by John1thru10

[granuaile]

Granuaile, I don't know if you're deliberately trying to derail a serious thread on a serious subject, but you're doing a pretty good job of it.

I'm trying to lay out the facts ...

which amount to baseless allegations...

[DaffyDuck]

They just don't want tourist anymore !

Everyday another attempt to stop tourists from choosing Thailand as a travel destination.....

Here we go again - doom & gloom posse in full swing.

[John1thru10]

I can recall a time in NYC when officers raped a man in their station bathroom with a plunger causing severe internal damage, for starters.

Then there a man who they shot (I can't remember exactly...almost) 30 times, for reaching for his wallet, and was both unarmed and the wrong person.

There are so many more cases it would be impossible to list.

Just this last month, a unarmed young man was gunned down and left laying on the street for hours, in Fergusson.

A 12 year old was shot and killed for pointing a toy gun on a playground last month.

A young man was shot and killed in a Walmart the other day, for picking up a bb gun in the store.

To say there are no abuses of power the US is truly an uneducated statement to make. In fact, the US is exploding in protests about it at this very moment. It's international news.

I will agree with you on this...

we are not in the US...

but if we were you would find that it's extremely rare for an officer to shake you down or accept a bribe. probably because they are very well paid. also, the incidents in the us usually occur during a crime or battle situation, or by mistake, not just random harassement.

this thread is about police corruption on sukhumvit where many expats live. the police here are very low paid and feel it is normal to ask for bribes. there was also a report earlier that they touched a man's penis and made him urinate. i can see this happening in thailand but would think it would be very very rare in the us.

Agree with you, that's it's a very important thread and should stay on topic. Sorry for talking about the US, I just didn't like this guy saying that people deserve police brutality when it happens in the US, as he did. I don't like it when people say that foreigners do here, either.

And I think your take is probably very right; the military closed the massage parlors, and so Thong Lor precinct is pissed, and will target the foreigners then, as a way to make up for it, and make a statement to the military. It's horrible to see innocent people get caught between those two foreign agencies that way, and so far away from home where they can't defend themselves.

Edited December 7, 2014 by John1thru10

[DaffyDuck]

You're hopeless, lady. People like you are the reason I left America, actually.

So you can't stand gutsy ladies?

Oh great, and then she typically turns around into a sexist argument - "oh noes, I am being victimized by this guy for being a woman" -- or something.

He said "people like you" not "women like you" so you're completely off.

Expecting back-pedaling, passive-aggressive denialism next...

[Dumu Ali]

alcoholics VS drug addicts? I was enjoying this thread then it seems to taken over as an alcoholics VS drug addicts match and me and my babe wandering why people can't just get high on making love because it is natural and healthy high Good Night guys and why not each to his own, a good fart keeps most troublemakers away

[metisdead]

A flame post and a reply have been removed. Off topic political rant removed as well.

[CharlieH]

A quantity of off topic, flame posts removed.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.