Koh Tao - Witnesses 'scared to testify' over Brit tourist murders: Thai lawyer

[lildragon]

I eagerly await the report of the British police. I just hope that it comes out before these lads are fast tracked to their deaths.

If the UK police support that these lads did it then I'll swallow humble pie. But this stinks to high heaven. Of course witnesses are intimidated they know the consequences if they spoke up. So much for the generalissimo's fight on corruption! This farce is happening on his watch with his blessing!

Their would be soooo much egg on his face If the Uk police said there are inconsistenties in the investigation. It would be amazing. AND there'd be justice for Hannah and David And these two boys.

Edited December 5, 2014 by lildragon

[gbswales]

Of course they're scared testifying against the corrupt inbred scum animals. This country is rotten to the core.

What do you expect?

Also I imagine that the potential witnesses are either illegal migrants themselves or people who knowingly employ cheap migrant labour.

I just cannot understand what is holding up the UK police report - it seems that the police have simply looked for two non Thais who are in a poor position to defend themselves.

In my view it is not sufficient to prove their case to a Thai court - they need to prove it to the UK authorities and the parents of the victims as well

[boomerangutang]

Thailand's Justice system is invested in fairness to the extent that it complies with Article 14 of the 1996 'International covenant on civil and political rights' as first referenced here by da Bleacher Bum.

If someone wants to make a case otherwise that might be grounds for appeal after the scapegoats are slam dunk convicted and railroaded by the kangaroo court for a crime everybody knows was committed by someone else but everybody who knows won't come forward with any evidence to back up what they know whether they have any such evidence or not.

Thailand's officials can sign documents in Geneva or Brussels until they're blue in the face (from drinking Johnny Walker Blue Label perhaps?) ....but it won't have much affect on realities on the ground.

And where is the Scotland Yard report on this investigation ?

It has been very quiet in its findings ??

Is it not due sometime this month?

Early Jan, supposedly. However, it would be decent of them to release at least some findings earlier, as it might set the Thai court proceedings on course towards justice, rather than (the Brits) continuing to withhold evidence - which enables Thai officialdom to do what it wants, namely: railroad the B2 towards a guilty verdict.

[mcm991]

Thailand's Justice system is invested in fairness to the extent that it complies with Article 14 of the 1996 'International covenant on civil and political rights' as first referenced here by da Bleacher Bum.

If someone wants to make a case otherwise that might be grounds for appeal after the scapegoats are slam dunk convicted and railroaded by the kangaroo court for a crime everybody knows was committed by someone else but everybody who knows won't come forward with any evidence to back up what they know whether they have any such evidence or not.

In theory correct. However in pratice ... not so much.

Most people I know can relate numerous examples of how the justice system has failed through either personal or anecdotal experience. The common theme being - the more money you have - the better your chances of getting a favourable result. Apparently just as valid in civil, criminal or appeal courts.

[JLCrab]

To the 2 posts above: But as people have repeatedly been reminding me -- This one's different.

Edited December 5, 2014 by JLCrab

[arrowsdawdle]

only chance they have if innocent is serious action from UK police/government if they have any consummate evidence to blow it wide open beyond doubt & beyond cover-ups & lies !!

I would like a report from UK regardless of what it supports as it the only way any faith can be bought to this perfect mess ...

Only good thing is Thailand will loose Billions of baht from all the corruption & stupidity that been brought to peoples attention through media, tourists are dwindling, business investors are more cautious & many moving.

Firm I work with are closing shop this year & moving offices to Singapore, quite simply don't want the inconsistent hassle of Thainess any longer. Constant protest/coups that are a farce for the elite factions, mixed with awful policing, messy immigration & incompetent banking have made the decision easy. A quote from my CEO "only 2 things we will miss is 7/11 & our dental clinic" .

Maybe there is another chance, if the Burmese interrogator that helped the BIB can be given immunity and a better life outside LOS to open up with what he knows.

[aripengu]

Witnesses are most probably illegal migrant workers themselves, trapped in a very small island controlled by mafias.

[JLCrab]

Witnesses are most probably illegal migrant workers themselves, trapped in a very small island controlled by mafias.

Witnesses? Witnesses to what? EYEwitnesses? Why has the blogosphere which has no compunction about speculation not speculated as to what evidence witnesses Thai, Burmese, or farang might have of an exculpatory nature that they are afraid to bring forward? Why have none of these witnesses sent anonymous emails to Andy Hall that without revealing their identities but give a least some indication of what evidence they might possess?

[Dogmatix]

"We have many disadvantages... we still have not seen the prosecutors' evidence, we just have to fight as best as we can," he added.

Just about sums it all up, doesn't it?

In a fair system the defence is supplied with a copy of all evidence at least 30 days prior. Anything alleged that the defence has not been made aware of can be dismissed. This allows for a level playing field and doesn't stack the case in favour of one side.

In the Thai system the accused is expected to enter a plea without his defence lawyers being allowed to see the prosecutor's evidence, usually amidst heavy threats from the prosecutor about how much heavier the penalty will be if they refuse to plead guilty. However, financial arrangements can sometimes be made to make the evidence available, particularly in the case of influential defendants. The principles of the plea stage are no different from those of the police 'safe' house and countless innocent people are intimidated into pleading guilty to crimes they didn't commit.

The Post ran a series on Thailand's medieval justice system explaining all this a few years ago.

[AleG]

The lawyer is playing you all like a fiddle.

[cbluck58]

A complete fit up - LOS police should hang their heads in shame , but they will be too busy spending all the money that changed hands.

[mcm991]

To the 2 posts above: But as people have repeatedly been reminding me -- This one's different.

It is different in that it has a high international profile.

It remains to be seen if that makes any difference.

[Robby nz]

The whole defense will depend on how much money is available and I would suspect the police and prosecutor are betting on the money running out quickly.

It would seem the defense has not and is not going to be given the police evidence so will have to wait till a trial to hear it.

The only way they can hear that evidence is to plead not guilty, with a guilty plea no evidence need be presented.

The defense needs to do the best they can, then should a guilty verdict be handed down, appeal.

They will then have all the evidence the police have presented and can go about pulling it to bits.

The police have covered their ass in this by bringing charges of illegal entry and other immigration charges so at the very least they can hold the Burmese on these charges even if they are found not guilty on the more serious charges.

However that raises the question of why they haven't gone after all the others working illegally on the island and those employing them.

[orange31]

Wonder how much money has changed hands to get all the ducks in a row??

Thailand may have improved its corruption-ranking, but as long as you can pay to get away with murder, the country still remains in the cave-age!!

It stinks!!

20 million to the bib

My guess ... 100 million

[rondii]

so many holes in case, let's make a list to remind ourselves...... 1)..DNA match was completed too quickly.... anybody want to add more?

Funny how urban myths and statements on TV end up as 'facts'.

I work in Molecular Biology, an extraction, DNA amplification, and the analysis and comparison can be completed in a few hours. How long you then take to report it is up to you, the result is ready in half a day.

[kiwikeith]

IMO, this lawyer is starting to sound as though he won't be causing too much dust........probably more than a little scared.....but I think he's a brave guy taking this on, but the system here will get him if he starts to get too cocky!!

Disclosure, no case would make court in western countrys without it! Is there no law or requirement for disclosure in this country?

As for the wittness's if they are illegal migrants they should now be in diplomatic protective custody to testify , that would be far safer for them.To remain in Thailand without this and say nothing they become fish bate.

They could then be sent home by and under protection of their embassy, if I was a wittness without embassy protection I would be gone already.

Then no one has mentioned who is employing these illegal migrants who are rife all over Thailand, probably employed by the same gangsters that run the island yet nothing said about laying charges against them.

As for the Brittish police and David Cameron they are only interested in political motives, with all due respect to all Britts the NewZealand government did nothing about the Chiang Mai poisenings even after an undercover news team posing as tourists went to the Hotel and took samples and had them anylised in NZ and the results proved the room had been sprayed with a cheap deadly toxin that killed.

The perpertators walked.

Then in Fergusson USA cops can shoot people dead without fear of prosecution same has happened in NZ.

The world is rotten not just Thai police , however this is one of the most blatant and damming crimes to become a farce in front of the whole world and unless 99% of the people in this world following this case are stupid then Thailands tourist industry and reputation is now suffering as we wont forget.

My prediction is another murder coming soon on KOH TAO, by the same bulletproof mob and I will never ever go there as will any other tourist who has half a brain

[GTI68]

The lawyer is playing you all like a fiddle.

And you're playing the skin flute no doubt.

[catweazle]

I have said it often and say it again: The silence over this coming from Hannah's and David's parents make me sick! They are the only ones who could turn this case around and make sure that the real murderers are being put to justice.

[A1Str8]

I wish i was a witness. I would testify without a second thought.

[Briggsy]

I have said it often and say it again: The silence over this coming from Hannah's and David's parents make me sick! They are the only ones who could turn this case around and make sure that the real murderers are being put to justice.

I have no idea why you have made this insensitive and ridiculously naive and stupid statement.

1. The family are polite, law-abiding people dealing with a grieving process.

2. They will have been advised by the UK govt, UK police, etc. to make no public statements.

3. Thailand has a very strong record of ignoring and becoming stubborn in the face of foreign pressure. What would any statement from the family do here?

4. Later on, after the trial and the inquest, you may hear more from them.

See Kirsty Jones case for comparison.

[Rooo]

Post removed.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[CockneyGit]

Wonder how much money has changed hands to get all the ducks in a row??

Thailand may have improved its corruption-ranking, but as long as you can pay to get away with murder, the country still remains in the cave-age!!

It stinks!!

20 million to the bib

x 10.

[mercman24]

well they must be guilty, as the good PM congratulated the police on doing a good job and said they are due a bonus, w.t.f. if this wasn't so sad it would be laughable, but 2 guys lives are on the line, so much for the spouting off, "we will end corruption" well here is a good idea, start here,

[Beetlejuice]

I would guess it`s because many of the witnesses are staying illegally in Thailand, maybe working without permits and into a multitude of illegal activities, which is why they prefer to keep out of the limelight and have low profiles.

Also those who were not close or associated with the tragic victims will probably be reluctant to become involved as is mostly the case when serious crimes are committed. That means the police are really on their own as for providing evidence. From my experience of farangs here in Thailand and their anti social attitudes, perhaps because they are into activities they prefer to keep behind the scenes or simply just don`t care, it comes as no surprise that they will not come forward and become involved within this investigation.

No corruption involved, it is how I have described above.

[sitti]

I hope David Cameron realises how little Thailand's government cares about what he has to say or his crime investigators.

You think any politician actually care about this case other than just a lip service for their popularity.

[maidee]

so who emploid them ? no jail time for those culprits ?

what about the xxxx baht per month bribe all the illegals have to pay to the police ?

why not give witness protection to the so called witness ?

[ABCer]

I have one only question:

Who are the witnesses for defence afraid of?

If they are also illegal immigrants - why in the interests of Justice are they not offered protection?

Or are their fears going deeper, much deeper?

Edited December 5, 2014 by ABCer

[Lancashireman]

The lawyer is playing you all like a fiddle.

I tend to agree with this statement. The defence lawyers are not obliged to say anything to anyone outside the scope of this case; that includes every single one of 'we' TV contributors.

Moreover, the findings from any and all other parties, including the British authorities, are confidential for a whole raft of reasons. The inquest (not a court case) in UK is separate to any ongoing case here.

[kiwikeith]

I have said it often and say it again: The silence over this coming from Hannah's and David's parents make me sick! They are the only ones who could turn this case around and make sure that the real murderers are being put to justice.

I have no idea why you have made this insensitive and ridiculously naive and stupid statement.

1. The family are polite, law-abiding people dealing with a grieving process.

2. They will have been advised by the UK govt, UK police, etc. to make no public statements.

3. Thailand has a very strong record of ignoring and becoming stubborn in the face of foreign pressure. What would any statement from the family do here?

4. Later on, after the trial and the inquest, you may hear more from them.

See Kirsty Jones case for comparison.

Lest we forget!

Do posters remember the Kiwi who had a gym in pattaya who was shot dead on his motorbike close to beach road 2.

His GF had taken money that was supposed to be used to set up a new Gym from his bank.'

The Thai police let her go after questioning.

Then his parents came to the LOS demanding answers with international media coverage, it turned out the GF of a few years had a thai boyfiiend all along and he and his mate shot the Kiwi man dead.

Nothing would have hapened had not the parents pushed and they did a gutsy and good job.

They were grieving as well and I hope the parents of Hannah and David can muster the courage above the terrible grief they are suffering to do the same as the NZ parents did.

I think that the poster who mentioned they should do this is 100% correct and I hope for the 2b boys they do it.

Otherwise there will be 2 more innocent dead boys and maybe a few wittnesses on the conscience of those who care.

Edited December 5, 2014 by kiwikeith

[spidermike007]

Of course any real witnesses would not testify. "Nomsod the Terrible" would take care of them in a heartbeat. And he would do it for fun. Anytime you allow piglet, gangland families like his to establish, and wield the kind of power and wealth they have, it is a dangerous thing for the nation, and it puts them above the law. The laws of the land, the police, the army, and the ministries. They are above it all. Nobody will touch them. And they know it. So, how is it possible to hold a fair trial, when you cannot get a witness to testify? Sounds a bit like New York in the 1920's, and 30's. Nomsod is a wanna be Lucky Luciano, or Arnold Rothstein. The army made a historic mistake by not arresting him. They revealed alot about their intentions with that one single mistake.