Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[berybert]

I agree with JTJ lets wait for the case to start and then questions will be answered.

Q 1 How can 2 people be attacked with the same weapon yet have such different injuries?

Q2 How can only one lot of dna be on that weapon ?

Case closed.

[uty6543]

par·a·phrase

express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.

Nowhere in the definition does it say you change the words to mean what suits your agenda.

What you are doing is called distorting the facts. It appears you find it easy to be obtuse completely uninformed or are you simply being dishonest.

Anyone being honest who have read the family statements will agree ... they are confident the two people in custody are being rightfully charged ... this is what is in question. Sorry if these facts don't support a conspiracy theory but rather support their statements which I paraphrased on this particular subject of their statement.

You are just continuing to find ways to distract from reality

The reality is you still don't understand (or are you being obtuse maybe) that you have changed what the families actually said because you assume that it is not what they meant. Paraphrasing does not allow the meaning of the original statement to be changed into what suits your warped agenda. If you were being honest you would realise that the parents statement can be interpreted many ways and yours is unlikely to be correct.

[CharlieH]

Myanmar men plead not guilty to murder of British tourists

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/782501-myanmar-men-plead-not-guilty-to-murder-of-british-tourists-on-koh-tao/

[JohnThailandJohn]

The OP is a statement from the 2 families.

There is no U.K. Investigators report attached to it.

Did somebody say it included a UK Investigators report or statement or is somebody just pretending this was said?

The partial statement in question was " based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators."

Edited December 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[fritzzz25]

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

"Two British families have already been devastated by the Koh Tao killings. The Thai authorities must now ensure two Burmese families don’t needlessly experience similar anguish"

Exactly.

Good work Time magazine.

[JohnThailandJohn]

par·a·phrase

express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.

Nowhere in the definition does it say you change the words to mean what suits your agenda.

What you are doing is called distorting the facts. It appears you find it easy to be obtuse completely uninformed or are you simply being dishonest.

Anyone being honest who have read the family statements will agree ... they are confident the two people in custody are being rightfully charged ... this is what is in question. Sorry if these facts don't support a conspiracy theory but rather support their statements which I paraphrased on this particular subject of their statement.

You are just continuing to find ways to distract from reality

The reality is you still don't understand (or are you being obtuse maybe) that you have changed what the families actually said because you assume that it is not what they meant. Paraphrasing does not allow the meaning of the original statement to be changed into what suits your warped agenda. If you were being honest you would realise that the parents statement can be interpreted many ways and yours is unlikely to be correct.

Actually it is what they made clear as even reported (paraphrased) by the BBC ...

Thai murder victim families voice 'relief' at court charges

The families of two Britons murdered in Thailand say they feel "relief" that the case is coming to court and are "confident" about the investigation.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-30359459

No person being honest with themselves regarding the statements could see any other meaning to their words.

Clearly they think the two charged should stand trial not because they want two innocent people to stand trial but because they think they are the right people to stand trial. Please please stop with this nonsense distraction.

Edited December 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[berybert]

The OP is a statement from the 2 families.

There is no U.K. Investigators report attached to it.

Did somebody say it included a UK Investigators report or statement or is somebody just pretending this was said?

The partial statement in question was " based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators."

No one said it included the UK Investigators report. Someone has said the UK Investigators think the RTP are doing a good job.

My question was where does this information come from. It is called putting words into peoples mouths.

The U.K. Investigators report is due in early January. Then you, like the rest of us will find out what it says.

I would suggest you wait until then before trying to guess what might be in it.

[DaveE13]

i see RTP chief will be meeting Cameron and Keith Bristow, Driector of the British National Crime Unit, this week when he visits london. Im sure all the Brits reports will be discussed

[Willy Eckerslike]

par·a·phrase

express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.

Nowhere in the definition does it say you change the words to mean what suits your agenda.

What you are doing is called distorting the facts. It appears you find it easy to be obtuse completely uninformed or are you simply being dishonest.

Anyone being honest who have read the family statements will agree ... they are confident the two people in custody are being rightfully charged ... this is what is in question. Sorry if these facts don't support a conspiracy theory but rather support their statements which I paraphrased on this particular subject of their statement.

You are just continuing to find ways to distract from reality

[jdinasia]

On the topic at hand I am sure they (the family) are aware of some investigative flaws but don't have the full picture and benefit of residential experience to be fully aware of the underhand methods deployed by certain elements of the police force here. The stories of graft / dishonesty and large scale mismanagement of criminal proceedings have been widely documented for many years.

I guess everyone should have been calling for the family to read Thaivisa instead of demanding UK Police get involved and how great and trusted UK police can be since it now seems you think kurmudgeons here are better informed than UK Investigators who briefed the families after coming here and seeing the evidence, working with Thai police, examining the case and looking for hints of cover ups ... or is it how some people have now suggested that UK Authorities are now in on the cover-up too or just plain incompetent and no match for the smarter Thai police who pulled the wool over their eyes?

So you think the UK police would accuse the BiB of "wrong doing"........

Gawd 'elp us..........

I guess says a lot about the UK Police force they are satisfied in duping the victim's families and seeing two innocent people possibly put to death all because they are scared of Thai police. Wonder why everyone didn't think of this when pretending they were going to be the savior in this case and uncover the vast conspiracy to protect the son of a tiny island headsman whose dna didn't match and who was in Bangkok at the time of the murder. I am not from the UK but if you say the police there are scum bags to this level, sorry if I question that.

Edit: Weren't you also one of the ones calling for the UK Investigators to get involved?

You are twisting words mon ami. Please don't do that eh.

Thankfully the UK police did come, but I am sure their "thoughts" were not blabbed to anyone except their superiors. Thats how a first world police force works.

Please explain the UK police meeting with the families and discussing the case.

[berybert]

Well an open question.

No ambiguity regarding the question.

Have the Thai police been morally and ethically and professional and left no reason or any doubt for the investigation to be considered flawed in the investigation of this horrific murder of two young British tourists on Koh Tao?

A simple yes or no will suffice as an answer

Thai Police have made mistakes as most do in most investigations throughout the world but nothing that would counter the belief they have the right people in custody. The suspects semen was found in the victims and based on the family statements who who were briefed by UK Investigators who examined the case, evidence and police conduct, it would seem there is even more evidence out there against the two suspects not made public yet and the family is confident in the investigation and believe there is strong and convincing evidence against the two men in custody.

The biggest mistake police made in this case is saying things they should not have said and saying things way to early before all the facts are in but they have done nothing I am aware of that would indicate they don't have the right people in custody for this crime. And based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators.

Sorry, not going to play your game of demanding how a question must be answered .... especially when you refused to answer my question worded identical to your original one re: UK Police.

3 Lines from the bottom of your post. The U.K. Investigators agree the RPT have the right people in custody.

They have not said that 100%

[JohnThailandJohn]

The OP is a statement from the 2 families.

There is no U.K. Investigators report attached to it.

Did somebody say it included a UK Investigators report or statement or is somebody just pretending this was said?

The partial statement in question was " based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators."

No one said it included the UK Investigators report. Someone has said the UK Investigators think the RTP are doing a good job.

My question was where does this information come from. It is called putting words into peoples mouths.

The U.K. Investigators report is due in early January. Then you, like the rest of us will find out what it says.

I would suggest you wait until then before trying to guess what might be in it.

Someone here stated that? Did I try to guess what it said? Never even mentioned their report or speculated what was in it ... common sense and logic would dictate we have some insight into their thoughts based on the Family statements which came after speaking with them ... but I guess it is possible but extremely implausible both family members made statements oppostite to the UK investigators view and evidence they shared with them.

[Krenjai]

The Two Men Charged With the Thai Backpacker Murders Face a Dubious Trial

The two Burmese migrant workers accused of killing a pair of British backpackers on an idyllic Thai beach appearedin court to be formality indicted Thursday. But there are growing fears that any trial will be a sh

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

From the article link

"However, they spent only two hours on Koh Tao after arriving by helicopter and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team. Their findings have still not been released."

Well well well, this looks like an incredible amount of time invested by Sherlock Holmes & Co. to look, cheerio mates!

[jdinasia]

The OP is a statement from the 2 families.

There is no U.K. Investigators report attached to it.

Did somebody say it included a UK Investigators report or statement or is somebody just pretending this was said?

The partial statement in question was " based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators."

No one said it included the UK Investigators report. Someone has said the UK Investigators think the RTP are doing a good job.

My question was where does this information come from. It is called putting words into peoples mouths.

The U.K. Investigators report is due in early January. Then you, like the rest of us will find out what it says.

I would suggest you wait until then before trying to guess what might be in it.

No.

The coroner's inquest is due in January.

[Fat Haggis]

JD is there corruption within the RTP a simple yes no response is suffice ?

Is there corruption in the UK police?

Did I ask about the UK police? I asked you a direct question about the RTP and you failed to answer but chose instead to deflect the question.

That speaks volumes about your stances and support of the RTP. Up to you.

No it doesn't. Had you asked about the case in question it would have been relevant. As asked it was deflection from the current case.

No it's not deflecting from the topic it's very relevant to the topic.

It is totally deflecting from the topic. You didn't ask "is there police corruption in this case?"

Instead you asked a general question regarding the police in Thailand.

Your question isn't valid and would be rejected in any court.

A simple question as to whether there is corruption within the RTP isn't valid? And would be rejected in any court you say?

Apart from the fact it's not being asked in a court it's a direct question to you which you have great difficulty in answering.

The answer is YES there is, but you simply cannot bring yourself round to admit this.

It is therefore not beyond any reasonable thought that there is a possibility that such corruption has been taking place throughout this investigation right from the get go.

As to your deflection towards the UK police, I will answer it in as simple a form as I posed the original question.

YES

Do I need to elaborate on the answer? Not really as that wasn't the question.

Both you and JTJ are known for your staunch support of the RTP even Stevie wonder can see that, and that's up to you. But to bump your gums about others who have been less complimentary is just the Ying to your Yang.

But there is no moral high horse here. But opinions like <deleted> are there to be read and digested.

You are constantly going on about respecting the families wishes, but you're the bloke with the bucket of gasoline at the fire, not the water !! ?

[longstebe]

UK detectives travelled to Thailand last month to “observe and review” the murder case of our precious Daughter Hannah, and also that of David Miller. We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit.

"Observe and review".

[Mooner]

Do the B2 know the evidence against them? Would the defence know the evidence? Maybe someone here with a knowledge of law could enlighten me.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The Two Men Charged With the Thai Backpacker Murders Face a Dubious Trial

The two Burmese migrant workers accused of killing a pair of British backpackers on an idyllic Thai beach appearedin court to be formality indicted Thursday. But there are growing fears that any trial will be a sh

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

From the article link

"However, they spent only two hours on Koh Tao after arriving by helicopter and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team. Their findings have still not been released."

Well well well, this looks like an incredible amount of time invested by Sherlock Holmes & Co. to look, cheerio mates!

But as reported earlier on and repeated by many of the Then Pro UK Investigators on other threads, other UK investigators arrived days earlier secretly.

[berybert]

The OP is a statement from the 2 families.

There is no U.K. Investigators report attached to it.

Did somebody say it included a UK Investigators report or statement or is somebody just pretending this was said?

The partial statement in question was " based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators."

No one said it included the UK Investigators report. Someone has said the UK Investigators think the RTP are doing a good job.

My question was where does this information come from. It is called putting words into peoples mouths.

The U.K. Investigators report is due in early January. Then you, like the rest of us will find out what it says.

I would suggest you wait until then before trying to guess what might be in it.

No.

The coroner's inquest is due in January.

And the U.K. Investigators case is due when ?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Do the B2 know the evidence against them? Would the defence know the evidence? Maybe someone here with a knowledge of law could enlighten me.

No discover laws in Thailand to the extent of the US. So neither do the defense or prosecutors have to share all their evidence before trial. Defense will get witness list and basic list of evidence to be presented -- the details and rest will come out during the trial. Much of trials in Thailand are handled by filings and not oral arguments. There will be a number of judges judging the case and not a public jury.

[fritzzz25]

Do the B2 know the evidence against them? Would the defence know the evidence? Maybe someone here with a knowledge of law could enlighten me.

According to the Time magazine article:

Allegations of torture aside, observers have been appalled by procedural irregularities. Tourists were allowed to wander through the crime scene, the suspects were forced into a reconstruction that may prejudice their chances of a fair hearing, and there was a lack of a forensic experts to collect evidence. Foreign nationals were also immediately blamed for the crime because, a police spokesman claimed, “Thais wouldn’t do this.”

“The prosecution has said that this is an important case and must be dealt with quickly,” says Andy Hall, a Thailand-based migrant labor expert aiding the defense. “There’s a real fear that justice will not be served.”

Under Thai law, the 900-page police report, upon which the prosecutors will base their case, will not be disclosed to the defense team until the trial commences. Instead, the defense lawyers will be given a summary containing a list of names and addresses of witnesses as well as a cursory inventory of evidence.

According to Felicity Gerry QC, a prominent British defense lawyer specializing in high-profile sexual-assault cases, “Not to have any access until the day of trial can’t possibly be fair.”

Also, using a pancake vendor as a translator for the biggest publicised crime this country has ever seen........ Larry, Moe, and Curly could have done this act better.....

Edited December 8, 2014 by fritzzz25

[StealthEnergiser]

Do the B2 know the evidence against them? Would the defence know the evidence? Maybe someone here with a knowledge of law could enlighten me.

No discover laws in Thailand to the extent of the US. So neither do the defense or prosecutors have to share all their evidence before trial. Defense will get witness list and basic list of evidence to be presented -- the details and rest will come out during the trial. Much of trials in Thailand are handled by filings and not oral arguments. There will be a number of judges judging the case and not a public jury.

These B2 have pleaded not guilty time for you to stop accusing them .

[berybert]

I must admit I don't understand why so any people have taken an anti U.K. police stance. They have yet to say anything public about what has gone on.

Time will tell.

[JLCrab]

Court date to consider evidence 25th Feb 2015.

The UK inquest will be over by then and the results publicly available.

https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

Hopefully those witness's in Koh Tao that Andy Hall referred to will be brave enough to speak up by then

Conversation amongst prospective Koh Tao witnesses (if any):

You go first.

No, after you.

You witnessed more than I did; you go first.

But I have a better job/shop/tourist venue so I have more to lose. You go first.

(Both) Maybe someone else will go first. Let's wait and see.

etc.

[DaveE13]

see what happens this week when RTP chief visits london for meeting on human trafficking. he is meeting Keith Bristow and Cameron.

Edited December 8, 2014 by DaveE13

[Krenjai]

The Two Men Charged With the Thai Backpacker Murders Face a Dubious Trial

The two Burmese migrant workers accused of killing a pair of British backpackers on an idyllic Thai beach appearedin court to be formality indicted Thursday. But there are growing fears that any trial will be a sh

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

From the article link

"However, they spent only two hours on Koh Tao after arriving by helicopter and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team. Their findings have still not been released."

Well well well, this looks like an incredible amount of time invested by Sherlock Holmes & Co. to look, cheerio mates!

But as reported earlier on and repeated by many of the Then Pro UK Investigators on other threads, other UK investigators arrived days earlier secretly.

007?

[Willy Eckerslike]

Do the B2 know the evidence against them? Would the defence know the evidence? Maybe someone here with a knowledge of law could enlighten me.

No discover laws in Thailand to the extent of the US. So neither do the defense or prosecutors have to share all their evidence before trial. Defense will get witness list and basic list of evidence to be presented -- the details and rest will come out during the trial. Much of trials in Thailand are handled by filings and not oral arguments. There will be a number of judges judging the case and not a public jury.

Agreed, the trial has now started and the B2 have pleaded innocent to all charges so there will be a full trial and all will be revealed

[JohnThailandJohn]

Do the B2 know the evidence against them? Would the defence know the evidence? Maybe someone here with a knowledge of law could enlighten me.

No discover laws in Thailand to the extent of the US. So neither do the defense or prosecutors have to share all their evidence before trial. Defense will get witness list and basic list of evidence to be presented -- the details and rest will come out during the trial. Much of trials in Thailand are handled by filings and not oral arguments. There will be a number of judges judging the case and not a public jury.

These B2 have pleaded not guilty time for you to stop accusing them .

By definition they are "the accused" and I simply believe they are the right people to be arrested and stand trial for this horrible crime. I also think they are likely guilty (why they were arrested and standing trial) but look forward to a trial but have a feeling they are going to end up changing their plea to guilty once the evidence starts rolling out and realize all the social media conspiracy folks can't help them especially now that the parents have come out with statements and further UK information to follow ... doubt there will be many except for tabloid style news sources continuing to promote baseless cover-up theories in the near future.

[Krenjai]

So..........

Scotland Yard spent only two hours on Koh Tao and did not meet with either the accused or their legal team.....Wow!! Great job Sherlock, then again what else could you have done? You were only there to observe the powerful and convincing evidence of the RTP. No wonder the family statement says the evidence APPEARS to be powerful and convincing.

I say it one more time, I will never believe in a million years the B2 are guilty unless I have seen independently (non-thai) verified DNA (if that is/was still possible). Nothing can change my mind, and definitively not a million posts from JD praising the RTP.

This case stinks too high heaven! So Sherlock, to end all this show the world your DNA findings! Just say you did independently verify the DNA from the repatriated bodies against fresh B2 samples and you will publish the result in due time. The fact that you didn't even meet them says it all.........you did not check the DNA, you accepted the RTP results. The B2 deserve better and so do their families!

[catsanddogs]

The Two Men Charged With the Thai Backpacker Murders Face a Dubious Trial

The two Burmese migrant workers accused of killing a pair of British backpackers on an idyllic Thai beach appearedin court to be formality indicted Thursday. But there are growing fears that any trial will be a sh

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

Scotland Yard only spent 2 hours in Koh Tao? The forces might have well just texted each other then.