Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[thailandchilli]

AleG: So you just assume that the two articles refer to the same people; assumptions are not facts.

Who stated a fact here, where did I imply facts, I take it you are offended by assumptions

Edited December 13, 2014 by thailandchilli

[boomerangutang]

Motive is the elephant in the room for me. I find it very difficult to credit that two people with no apparent history of violence would together take it into their heads to suddenly commit horrific murder and rape on the spur of the moment. One person - possibly. But two? A mutual murder lust overcomes them simultaneously, and in a matter of minutes at most they agree to commit a capital crime? Drunk or not, unless both these two have some history of violence, I'm afraid I simply can't envisage it. And then when they've finished, they re-position the corpse in the most humiliating position possible? Why?

It simply doesn't add up.

They are from a country that is has a great deal of violence, including rape that largely goes unprosecuted. We have no idea what violence they may or may not have done in the past. Was there anyone on the island who has a history of rape and murder?

Are their unsolved murders in KT? Are there unsolved rapes in KT? I can tell you the answer to that and it blows your argument out of the water.

I am not aware of any unsolved murders on Koh Tao, wasn't the last murder there like a decade or more ago when a local shot another local? Please tell us what unsolved murders there are.

No unsolved rapes or murders on Ko Tao, and turtles don't have shells.

As for the relative safety of Burma vs Thailand: I was referring to day to day life I've observed in towns in Shan State and, to a lesser degree, central Burma. I wasn't commenting on things like ethnic cleansing, which I know is a serious problem in parts of Burma. It would be like judging Thailand by the street riots which take place there every 3 years.

Earlier, you made a sweeping statement which inferred the Burmese were somehow more prone to violent crime than Thais. I don't agree with that by a long shot. And I'm basing that more on personal experiences of being in Burma and Thailand (34 years visiting, 16 years in residence), than on reports issued from NYC.

[thailandchilli]

Are their unsolved murders in KT? Are there unsolved rapes in KT? I can tell you the answer to that and it blows your argument out of the water.

I am not aware of any unsolved murders on Koh Tao, wasn't the last murder there like a decade or more ago when a local shot another local? Please tell us what unsolved murders there are.

I'm not here to humour you, I asked a question, you want the answer you find it

I did answer, you as I am not aware of any but YOU specifically said, "I can tell you the answer to that and it blows your argument out of the water."

Yes I can but as my last post stated I am not here to humour you, hey look I can also put words in bold and underline

Again I asked a question. You can ignore or find the answer yourself

[thailandchilli]

As does Thailand does it not?

[boomerangutang]

As a side note - Burma does require males 18 and over to serve a minimum 2 years in the military

Many countries have similar requirements. So, your point is....?

[thailandchilli]

"Various sock puppet accounts appear on online message boards such as Thaivisa.com attempting to derail commentary on the incident and the character assassination of the only witness begins."

I wonder who this guy is referring to?

http://mikeestravels.com/2014/09/25/the-dark-side-of-thailands-island-paradise/

Edited December 13, 2014 by thailandchilli

[AleG]

AleG: So you just assume that the two articles refer to the same people; assumptions are not facts.

Who stated a fact here, where did I imply facts, I take it you are offended by assumptions

Who stated a fact?

"The matching of the DNA samples of the defendants did not match at first but, then after a second go at it.. they did."

Then you butted in in the rebuttal of that "fact".

[thailandchilli]

AleG: So you just assume that the two articles refer to the same people; assumptions are not facts.

Who stated a fact here, where did I imply facts, I take it you are offended by assumptions

Who stated a fact?

"The matching of the DNA samples of the defendants did not match at first but, then after a second go at it.. they did."

Then you butted in in the rebuttal of that "fact".

That was me? my user name is Thailandchilli, can you read? The post your referring is by DennisF

[Fat Haggis]

As does Thailand does it not?

It does but it also runs a lottery type of systems too my brother in law was a lucky number and didn't have to do his national service he stayed in his normal work place.

[jdinasia]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

If you admit it is flawed and we all admit it is flawed, then the families will have be told it is flawed.

Yes, I am sure that the families know that it is flawed, yet they both are supporting a trial.

They both said that the case against the defendants is strong. I agree that doesn't mean that the defendants are guilty, it means that there should be a trial.

Edited December 13, 2014 by jdinasia

[Willy Eckerslike]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

If you admit it is flawed and we all admit it is flawed, then the families will have be told it is flawed.

Yes, I am sure that the families know that it is flawed, yet they both are supporting a trial.

They both said that the case against the defendants is strong. I agree that doesn't mean that the defendants are guilty, it means that there should be a trial.

Appears to be strong................. not is..................................................why can't you write the truth? .............

[jdinasia]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

If you admit it is flawed and we all admit it is flawed, then the families will have be told it is flawed.

Yes, I am sure that the families know that it is flawed, yet they both are supporting a trial.

They both said that the case against the defendants is strong. I agree that doesn't mean that the defendants are guilty, it means that there should be a trial.

Appears to be strong................. not is..................................................why can't you write the truth? .............

As I wasn't quoting...

Here is a quote ""We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

The other family said appears to be powerful and convincing.

[JohnThailandJohn]

As a side note - Burma does require males 18 and over to serve a minimum 2 years in the military

Many countries have similar requirements. So, your point is....?

Point was very clear - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/781951-family-of-brits-murdered-in-thailand-say-evidence-convincing/page-48#entry8796954

further reading on their military and their ongoing and widespread practice of what is termed as their License to rape:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS582US582&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=burma+army+rape

Edited December 13, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Willy Eckerslike]

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

If you admit it is flawed and we all admit it is flawed, then the families will have be told it is flawed.

Yes, I am sure that the families know that it is flawed, yet they both are supporting a trial.

They both said that the case against the defendants is strong. I agree that doesn't mean that the defendants are guilty, it means that there should be a trial.

Appears to be strong................. not is..................................................why can't you write the truth? .............

As I wasn't quoting...

Here is a quote ""We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

The other family said appears to be powerful and convincing.

Yes you weren't quoting you wrote and I quote

"They both said that the case against the defendants is strong"

They did not...........................you told an untruth..................Why?

[jdinasia]

No, I paraphrased. Be as pedantic as you wish. The statements were not ambiguous.

[JohnThailandJohn]

As does Thailand does it not?

It does but it also runs a lottery type of systems too my brother in law was a lucky number and didn't have to do his national service he stayed in his normal work place.

One also is not known globally for widespread use of rape with impunity as a weaon and control tool

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS582US582&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=burma+rape

[JohnThailandJohn]

Have they been questioned? Of course they saw the running man

Are their unsolved murders in KT? Are there unsolved rapes in KT? I can tell you the answer to that and it blows your argument out of the water.

I am not aware of any unsolved murders on Koh Tao, wasn't the last murder there like a decade or more ago when a local shot another local? Please tell us what unsolved murders there are.

I'm not here to humour you, I asked a question, you want the answer you find it

[Willy Eckerslike]

No, I paraphrased. Be as pedantic as you wish. The statements were not ambiguous.

Call it what you want but using the family's to tell your lies is sick.....................EDIT, and very very disrespectful.............

Edited December 13, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[DM07]

Motive is the elephant in the room for me. I find it very difficult to credit that two people with no apparent history of violence would together take it into their heads to suddenly commit horrific murder and rape on the spur of the moment. One person - possibly. But two? A mutual murder lust overcomes them simultaneously, and in a matter of minutes at most they agree to commit a capital crime? Drunk or not, unless both these two have some history of violence, I'm afraid I simply can't envisage it. And then when they've finished, they re-position the corpse in the most humiliating position possible? Why?

It simply doesn't add up.

They are from a country that is has a great deal of violence, including rape that largely goes unprosecuted. We have no idea what violence they may or may not have done in the past. Was there anyone on the island who has a history of rape and murder?

Now THAT is a question, one should really try to answer...isn;t it?!

digging....own grave...

[thailandchilli]

As does Thailand does it not?

It does but it also runs a lottery type of systems too my brother in law was a lucky number and didn't have to do his national service he stayed in his normal work place.

One also is not known globally for widespread use of rape with impunity as a weaon and control tool

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS582US582&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=burma+rape

You really should take a step back, digging a hole for yourself here with your raciest views

[JohnThailandJohn]

No, I paraphrased. Be as pedantic as you wish. The statements were not ambiguous.

Dislike.jpg

Call it what you want but using the family's to tell your lies is sick.....................EDIT, and very very disrespectful.............

It is like you are purposely trying to disconnect from reality of facts and focusing on non-issues and blowing them up in your head to mean something to distract from reality. There was no lie nor was there a misquote nor use of the family to spread a lie.

[JohnThailandJohn]

As does Thailand does it not?

It does but it also runs a lottery type of systems too my brother in law was a lucky number and didn't have to do his national service he stayed in his normal work place.

One also is not known globally for widespread use of rape with impunity as a weaon and control tool

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS582US582&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=burma+rape

You really should take a step back, digging a hole for yourself here with your raciest views

Clear you don't understand what a race is nor the meaning of racism but it serves well to distract your own mind?

Edited December 13, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Willy Eckerslike]

No, I paraphrased. Be as pedantic as you wish. The statements were not ambiguous.

Dislike.jpg

Call it what you want but using the family's to tell your lies is sick.....................EDIT, and very very disrespectful.............

It is like you are purposely trying to disconnect from reality of facts and focusing on non-issues and blowing them up in your head to mean something to distract from reality. There was no lie nor was there a misquote nor use of the family to spread a lie.

You left out the Quote in question,

jdinasia wrote whilst referring to the family's, quote,

"They both said that the case against the defendants is strong".................................that quote is an untruth and Libelous

Edited December 13, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[maxme]

Why?

Why do you give a crap about what other people think? The case has nothing to do with you , and doesnt effect you....... Unless you have vested interests and "friends" who are the focus of unwanted attention. Most people want justice to be seen and a fair trial, but you ?

You are on some kind of moral crusade and my gut instinct tells me your a lot closer to this case and Koh Tao people of influence. Doesn't bother me if you were the owner of the AC bar or Nomsod himself, but the thing is most people don't get that wound up about something that they have zero connection to.

You and the other musketeers are just too " convenient " and orchestrated too, taking it in turns to post, and dismissing everyone and anyone who doesn't agree with your logic and POV.

Instead if getting pissed off with the constant theories and speculation how about simply respecting that other opinions that are not in line with yours?

I think your full of it, but I respect your opinions

Didnt you post earlier About going into battle when discussing stuff here? Errrrr it's not a war sunshine, it's an Internet forum where people discuss And debate, and if these posters wind you up so much, why don't you simply stop responding?

You can't that's why, you just can't ignore what's being said, you can't take a step back and ignore the CTs you just cant help trying to belittle them, that's not the actions of a person who has no connections to the Island or the people there.

These are the actions of someone very much with an agenda.

Well, I must inform you that your gut instinct is way off the mark, if you are using the same gut instinct in deciding who are the "real" murderers you should reconsider and instead of using your gut use your brain.

I already explained why I give a crap, do try and pay attention to what you answer to instead of closing your eyes and just going with what your "gut instinct" tells you.

Now, once more, because you guys seem very slow in the uptake: I do not have any connection with Koh Tao, the headman or anyone living there. Got it?

Weren't you part of Suthep's cheerleading squad?

[maxme]

As does Thailand does it not?

It does but it also runs a lottery type of systems too my brother in law was a lucky number and didn't have to do his national service he stayed in his normal work place.

One also is not known globally for widespread use of rape with impunity as a weaon and control tool

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS582US582&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=burma+rape

You really should take a step back, digging a hole for yourself here with your raciest views

Clear you don't understand what a race is nor the meaning of racism but it serves well to distract your own mind?

No I concur, it was quite racist so I advise you to retract that statement.

Not only are you way off the mark but now you seem pretty desperate as you resort to bigoted and vile remarks to slander a whole nation. And Thais can hardly claim the moral high-ground when it comes to abuse and rape

Edited December 13, 2014 by maxme

[retsdon]

As a side note - Burma does require males 18 and over to serve a minimum 2 years in the military

Many countries have similar requirements. So, your point is....?

Point was very clear - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/7819hh51-family-of-brits-murdered-in-thailand-say-evidence-convincing/page-48#entry8796954

further reading on their military and their ongoing and widespread practice of what is termed as their License to rape:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS582US582&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=burma+army+rape

I'm confused. Are you asserting that the two Burmese suspects are ex-military who were deployed in Kachin State. In any event, it's not the Burmese army or government which is on trial, it is two individuals. So unless you can provide links to their personal crime files, you're just wasting your time. Everything else is irrelevant. You might as well suggest that in any crime in say, New York, the prime suspects should immediately be anyone from Columbia or Venezuela because fhey are high-crime countries (which Burma isn't anyway within civil society) Utterly absurd.

[jdinasia]

Maxme, a nationality is not a race, and rape / violence against women is fairly common in Myanmar.

It doesn't mean that such commonality has any bearing on the case in question, but it is factual.

[maxme]

Maxme, a nationality is not a race, and rape / violence against women is fairly common in Myanmar.

It doesn't mean that such commonality has any bearing on the case in question, but it is factual.

So is it in Thailand but because the law is, commonly known, not enforced here there aren't enough women that report it, in fear of retaliation and be shunned off. So that statement was a cheap ploy to deal with the real criticism.

And we can talk separately about what the definition of racism is as you and I have totally different opinion about that.

Edited December 13, 2014 by maxme

[JohnThailandJohn]

As a side note - Burma does require males 18 and over to serve a minimum 2 years in the military

Many countries have similar requirements. So, your point is....?

Point was very clear - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/7819hh51-family-of-brits-murdered-in-thailand-say-evidence-convincing/page-48#entry8796954

further reading on their military and their ongoing and widespread practice of what is termed as their License to rape:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS582US582&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=burma+army+rape

I'm confused. Are you asserting that the two Burmese suspects are ex-military who were deployed in Kachin State. In any event, it's not the Burmese army or government which is on trial, it is two individuals. So unless you can provide links to their personal crime files, you're just wasting your time. Everything else is irrelevant. You might as well suggest that in any crime in say, New York, the prime suspects should immediately be anyone from Columbia or Venezuela because fhey are high-crime countries (which Burma isn't anyway within civil society) Utterly absurd.

Nope, never asserted such a thing -- the point was very clearly pointed out above where is says:

Point was very clear - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/7819hh51-family-of-brits-murdered-in-thailand-say-evidence-convincing/page-48#entry8796954

And to be clear nobody none of us know what their criminal background is or what crimes they might have committed in their home country and were not charged or caught. But we do know they came from a very brutal country and makes Thailand's corruption and justice system look like it is light years ahead.

It certainly is possible their poor families lived in a great village that was immune to all the horrible things that have gone on it that country but was just simply pointing out some facts that can either be considered or not.

Edited December 13, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[jdinasia]

Maxme, a nationality is not a race, and rape / violence against women is fairly common in Myanmar.

It doesn't mean that such commonality has any bearing on the case in question, but it is factual.

So is it in Thailand but because the law is, commonly known, not enforced here there aren't enough women that report it, in fear of retaliation and be shunned off. So that statement was a cheap ploy to deal with the real criticism.

Thailand actually keeps and publishes crime statistics.

The truth is we don't know the background of the defendants yet. That background would be admissible in court in Thailand.