Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[loonodingle]

I am scared to pursue this now after the french ie. I think we must stop. People are dying.

Don't stop - pursuing the real criminals in this case. It's not just about justice for the victims. It's not just about the victims' families aiming to find closure. It's about trying to put some very dangerous punks on Ko Tao away for a long time. Even if we don't personally know the next victims, if we care about youngsters in general, it's incumbent for us to continue to try and unravel what happened at that crime and afterwards. I interact with hundreds of farang backpackers each year. They're all fine folks. Any one of them could have been (or may be in the future) victims of crazed Thai killers. If there's anything I can do to preclude that, I will.

https://db.tt/aVj3mx30

Gotta laugh ? right then back to the job at hand. A timeline of all suspects⏳?

But let me just tell each and every one of you right now.☝

If anything happens to me "ever" IT IS NOT A SUICIDE. ?

?

The way you was talking it wouldn't surprise me if you gave up life and swung in a forest when you visit Kho Tao next time.

[JLCrab]

I am scared to pursue this now after the french ie. I think we must stop. People are dying.

Don't stop - pursuing the real criminals in this case. It's not just about justice for the victims. It's not just about the victims' families aiming to find closure. It's about trying to put some very dangerous punks on Ko Tao away for a long time. Even if we don't personally know the next victims, if we care about youngsters in general, it's incumbent for us to continue to try and unravel what happened at that crime and afterwards. I interact with hundreds of farang backpackers each year. They're all fine folks. Any one of them could have been (or may be in the future) victims of crazed Thai killers. If there's anything I can do to preclude that, I will.

https://db.tt/aVj3mx30

Ok, I get it. You think I equate myself with Superman. What's the alternative? Just go along with ordinary thinking (of most Thais, in particular) ....and resign myself to 'sh't's gonna happen. Authorities are corrupt. Small island mafia tough guys are going to do what they want and get away with it,....' Not quite. Btw, I don't relate to Superman, tho I read all his comics when a kid in the US. I prefer Zap Comic books (...and the author, Art Crumb, is one of the oddest fellows I've had the pleasure to meet).

What's the alternative? Just including an element of doubt in your pronouncements that things might not be 100% the way that you are seeing them. Me? I am not sure who is responsible for these crimes: The accused, the one/s who everyone knows did it, or some other party that has so far totally escaped any attention.

[JLCrab]

I am scared to pursue this now after the french ie. I think we must stop. People are dying.

Don't stop - pursuing the real criminals in this case. It's not just about justice for the victims. It's not just about the victims' families aiming to find closure. It's about trying to put some very dangerous punks on Ko Tao away for a long time. Even if we don't personally know the next victims, if we care about youngsters in general, it's incumbent for us to continue to try and unravel what happened at that crime and afterwards. I interact with hundreds of farang backpackers each year. They're all fine folks. Any one of them could have been (or may be in the future) victims of crazed Thai killers. If there's anything I can do to preclude that, I will.

https://db.tt/aVj3mx30

i would advise not clicking any link like this as it is possibly an IP tracker. Most probably.

just a link to my Public Dropbox where I edited down the superman intro -- I'll do it this way from now on:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6412030/1950's%20Superman%20Series%20-%20Intro%20-%20trimmed.mp4

Edited January 4, 2015 by JLCrab

[greenchair]

I am scared to pursue this now after the french ie. I think we must stop. People are dying.Don't stop - pursuing the real criminals in this case. It's not just about justice for the victims. It's not just about the victims' families aiming to find closure. It's about trying to put some very dangerous punks on Ko Tao away for a long time. Even if we don't personally know the next victims, if we care about youngsters in general, it's incumbent for us to continue to try and unravel what happened at that crime and afterwards. I interact with hundreds of farang backpackers each year. They're all fine folks. Any one of them could have been (or may be in the future) victims of crazed Thai killers. If there's anything I can do to preclude that, I will.

https://db.tt/aVj3mx30Gotta laugh ? right then back to the job at hand. A timeline of all suspects⏳?

But let me just tell each and every one of you right now.☝

If anything happens to me "ever" IT IS NOT A SUICIDE. ?

?

The way you was talking it wouldn't surprise me if you gave up life and swung in a forest when you visit Kho Tao next time.

Sicko? never know, might be yourself mysteriously falling off a balcony with no bruises next time you visit Koh Tao. ?

Edited January 4, 2015 by greenchair

[boomerangutang]

Come on guys, let's try and stay focused.

[boomerangutang]

I really think some of these postings are having an effect on how things are unfolding - in the press, and even in legal areas of this case.

Also, I think Balo should be dropped from being in the so-called 'Gang of 4' as he's showing signs of being open-minded, borderline reasonable. There's another poster who can be lumped in the Gang of 4, in place of Balo, but I can't recall the name he/she uses on T.Visa. ....so we can keep the moniker.

I thought of them, just now, because my opening sentence in this post, they would surely disagree with. Granted, it may sound presumptuous, that any of the things we post herein would matter to the press corps or the hallowed halls of justice - yet we're putting out some interesting ideas - in pursuit of the truth and justice. Thai officialdom are putting out interesting ideas also, but not in pursuit of the same ideals.

Edited January 4, 2015 by boomerangutang

[greenchair]

Come on guys, let's try and stay focused.

Right. Focus.

Recap of suspects.

Mon

Cop

Stingray man

Sean

NS

Muang

B2

Foreigner with thai

Frenchman

People who have knowledge.

Chris Ware

Chris cooper /copper

Sven

Frenchman

Foreigner with thai

[Eirene]

JLCRAB:

What's the alternative? Just including an element of doubt in your pronouncements that things might not be 100% the way that you are seeing them. Me? I am not sure who is responsible for these crimes: The accused, the one/s who everyone knows did it, or some other party that has so far totally escaped any attention.

I choose door number three.

Edit: To add quoted poster name.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Eirene

[boomerangutang]

Come on guys, let's try and stay focused.

Right. Focus.

Recap of suspects.

Mon, Cop, Stingray man, Sean, NS, Muang, B2, Foreigner with thai, Frenchman, People who have knowledge.

Chris Ware

Chris cooper /copper

Sven

Frenchman

Foreigner with thai

I think we should differentiate between the following categories:

Official Suspects: The two Burmese young men (I can't recall their names)

Those Who Should Be Suspects: Mon, Nomsod, Mon's cop friend, Stingray man,

Probable Key Witnesses: Sean, B2 and all 'those who should be suspects.'

Possible witnesses and/or Those Who May Have Useful Info:

Muang (the 3rd Burmese), Foreigner with Thai g.f.,

Frenchman who tragically died recently (did he give any certified testimony prior?)

Chris Ware, Chris Cooper, Sven, Employees at AC Bar, Partyers on beach that night,

locals or visitors lodging nearby, taxi driver(s), speedboat operator(s),

people who do laundry service on island, barbers, CCTV techies,

vendors who sell weapons (particularly small blades, worn on finger or in the hand)

drug dealers, revelers at AC bar after midnight on Monday morning, passers-by

[JLCrab]

So you've yet to figure out how someone who should-be-a-suspect got off the island if he didn't take the first flight from Samui or maybe take a boat ride to Chumpon and then a taxi when the simple Ockham-type possible explanation to that is that he wasn't on the island.

[boomerangutang]

So you've yet to figure out how someone who should-be-a-suspect got off the island if he didn't take the first flight from Samui or maybe take a boat ride to Chumpon and then a taxi when the simple Ockham-type possible explanation to that is that he wasn't on the island.

Every account of 'the island being cordoned off' right after the crime, has shown that exiting the island was easy. I suspect Nomsod was on the island and a major perp in the crime. And yes, it would be significant if there were proof of how he got off the island and up to Bangkok. As for him being in Bkk by 9-something on Monday morning, that's only hinging on questionable CCTV footage which was likely tampered with. He might have arrived later than that, from KT.

If he was indeed in Bkk during the time of the murder, then there should be stronger evidence. His g.f. claims they're always together (and she was looking for him Sunday night), yet she claims she couldn't find him that evening or night. Have there been any other of his friends who can claim honestly that he was there Sunday night? .....or employees of the apartment, or nearby restaurants, or.....?

As for Mon claiming he was shown in the KT 'running man' Video. I still find that a bit hard to believe he claimed that. Did he really say that? If so, it could be explained as him covering for his nephew (I think it was the nephew who went apeshit and bludgeoned Hanna's head). I also think, as many other observers do, that the KT video shows Nomsod, not Mon. However, Thai cops initially thought it was Mon (tho now they don't want to talk about the KT video, because it doesn't implicate the B2). Mon and Nomsod have similar thin body types and similar bushy haircuts. However, Nomsod has a more youthful (and skinnier) body than Mon, ....which fits more closely with the 'running man' video.

[boomerangutang]

Dear JLCrab, I don't think Ockham's or Occam's Razor (which is how it's most often spelled) really applies to the KT crime. Occam's Razor is most often applied to scientific endeavors. The KT crime has many considerations. OJ's crime wasn't simple either, and O.R. woudn't have appled there either. I think we can leave old Ockham out of it, but it's up to you. On 2nd thought, ok, maybe certain details may fit with the scrutiny of O.R. But it's a 'razor' not a fixed or foolproof way of gauging proof - particularly not as applied to a complicated crime scene.

[greenchair]

So you've yet to figure out how someone who should-be-a-suspect got off the island if he didn't take the first flight from Samui or maybe take a boat ride to Chumpon and then a taxi when the simple Ockham-type possible explanation to that is that he wasn't on the island.

Every account of 'the island being cordoned off' right after the crime, has shown that exiting the island was easy. I suspect Nomsod was on the island and a major perp in the crime. And yes, it would be significant if there were proof of how he got off the island and up to Bangkok. As for him being in Bkk by 9-something on Monday morning, that's only hinging on questionable CCTV footage which was likely tampered with. He might have arrived later than that, from KT.

If he was indeed in Bkk during the time of the murder, then there should be stronger evidence. His g.f. claims they're always together (and she was looking for him Sunday night), yet she claims she couldn't find him that evening or night. Have there been any other of his friends who can claim honestly that he was there Sunday night? .....or employees of the apartment, or nearby restaurants, or.....?

As for Mon claiming he was shown in the KT 'running man' Video. I still find that a bit hard to believe he claimed that. Did he really say that? If so, it could be explained as him covering for his nephew (I think it was the nephew who went apeshit and bludgeoned Hanna's head). I also think, as many other observers do, that the KT video shows Nomsod, not Mon. However, Thai cops initially thought it was Mon (tho now they don't want to talk about the KT video, because it doesn't implicate the B2). Mon and Nomsod have similar thin body types and similar bushy haircuts. However, Nomsod has a more youthful (and skinnier) body than Mon, ....which fits more closely with the 'running man' video.

I am not good at finding a articles and don't have time anyway. The first article before focus on NS. Said the police have released mon after having a chat and clearing things up however as mon was the man in the video he was still under investigation. 24th Sep.

It also said still looking for 2 sons of village head who had left the island.

A couple of days later (not sure )when. The cops explained why mon was in the video .he was sleeping, one of his staff woke him up and told him of the murders.he quickly ran down the beach to inspect the scene .he was in such a hurry he forgot to put his shirt on.

I remember I commented that I didn't believe him. One day I will flick through and find my comment. It is not on the family thread. Nor looking for witness. It was I think but not sure. Before the b2 were arrested. I have found. 24th Sep though.it says it was Mon.

[BritTim]

Every account of 'the island being cordoned off' right after the crime, has shown that exiting the island was easy. I suspect Nomsod was on the island and a major perp in the crime. And yes, it would be significant if there were proof of how he got off the island and up to Bangkok. As for him being in Bkk by 9-something on Monday morning, that's only hinging on questionable CCTV footage which was likely tampered with. He might have arrived later than that, from KT.

If he was indeed in Bkk during the time of the murder, then there should be stronger evidence. His g.f. claims they're always together (and she was looking for him Sunday night), yet she claims she couldn't find him that evening or night. Have there been any other of his friends who can claim honestly that he was there Sunday night? .....or employees of the apartment, or nearby restaurants, or.....?

As for Mon claiming he was shown in the KT 'running man' Video. I still find that a bit hard to believe he claimed that. Did he really say that? If so, it could be explained as him covering for his nephew (I think it was the nephew who went apeshit and bludgeoned Hanna's head). I also think, as many other observers do, that the KT video shows Nomsod, not Mon. However, Thai cops initially thought it was Mon (tho now they don't want to talk about the KT video, because it doesn't implicate the B2). Mon and Nomsod have similar thin body types and similar bushy haircuts. However, Nomsod has a more youthful (and skinnier) body than Mon, ....which fits more closely with the 'running man' video.

His g.f. claims they're always together (and she was looking for him Sunday night), yet she claims she couldn't find him that evening or night.

I have seen that claim a few times, but cannot find a reliable source. Can you provide one? It would be significant as, according to the produced CCTV footage, Nomsod was in his room all night, and she definitely would have been able to locate him there (unless, perhaps, he was in a drug-induced coma or something).

[JLCrab]

Dear JLCrab, I don't think Ockham's or Occam's Razor (which is how it's most often spelled) really applies to the KT crime. Occam's Razor is most often applied to scientific endeavors. The KT crime has many considerations. OJ's crime wasn't simple either, and O.R. woudn't have appled there either. I think we can leave old Ockham out of it, but it's up to you. On 2nd thought, ok, maybe certain details may fit with the scrutiny of O.R. But it's a 'razor' not a fixed or foolproof way of gauging proof - particularly not as applied to a complicated crime scene.

I wasn't the one who first brought in William of Ockham -- the net is that you are still grasping at theories as to how someone got off the island when one possible explanation why you can't explain how he got off the island is that he wasn't on the island.

[Mooner]

Dear JLCrab, I don't think Ockham's or Occam's Razor (which is how it's most often spelled) really applies to the KT crime. Occam's Razor is most often applied to scientific endeavors. The KT crime has many considerations. OJ's crime wasn't simple either, and O.R. woudn't have appled there either. I think we can leave old Ockham out of it, but it's up to you. On 2nd thought, ok, maybe certain details may fit with the scrutiny of O.R. But it's a 'razor' not a fixed or foolproof way of gauging proof - particularly not as applied to a complicated crime scene.

I wasn't the one who first brought in William of Ockham -- the net is that you are still grasping at theories as to how someone got off the island when one possible explanation why you can't explain how he got off the island is that he wasn't on the island.

This was covered months ago. Speedboat speeds, distances to the airport as well as time flights from Samui and Chumphon have already been put forward to show it was possible.

No evidence to back up the claims obviously as Airport flight details are not public information.

[loonodingle]

For all this chat has anybody done anything at all. Contacted police or MP or anything?

[JLCrab]

Dear JLCrab, I don't think Ockham's or Occam's Razor (which is how it's most often spelled) really applies to the KT crime. Occam's Razor is most often applied to scientific endeavors. The KT crime has many considerations. OJ's crime wasn't simple either, and O.R. woudn't have appled there either. I think we can leave old Ockham out of it, but it's up to you. On 2nd thought, ok, maybe certain details may fit with the scrutiny of O.R. But it's a 'razor' not a fixed or foolproof way of gauging proof - particularly not as applied to a complicated crime scene.

I wasn't the one who first brought in William of Ockham -- the net is that you are still grasping at theories as to how someone got off the island when one possible explanation why you can't explain how he got off the island is that he wasn't on the island.

This was covered months ago. Speedboat speeds, distances to the airport as well as time flights from Samui and Chumphon have already been put forward to show it was possible.

No evidence to back up the claims obviously as Airport flight details are not public information.

Sure it's possible -- so is the spreading around of 100 million baht or so of hush money but there's been no credible sightings of either.

[greenchair]

For all this chat has anybody done anything at all. Contacted police or MP or anything?

I have made a donation to the defense team and intend to make another on pay day.

I sent an email to England to ask about David inquest.

I post everyday to help keep this in the news for the b2 to get support from people more financially able than myself. In my holiday I intend to go visit them. ?what have you done ?

[JLCrab]

For all this chat has anybody done anything at all. Contacted police or MP or anything?

I have made a donation to the defense team and intend to make another on pay day.

I sent an email to England to ask about David inquest.

I post everyday to help keep this in the news for the b2 to get support from people more financially able than myself. In my holiday I intend to go visit them. ?what have you done ?

I think you should be writing to the big UK tabloids asking that they they put up a substantial standing offer for rights to the exclusive story of anyone -- Thai, Burmese, farang, whomever -- who can provide credible substantive evidence to bust this thing wide open.

[loonodingle]

For all this chat has anybody done anything at all. Contacted police or MP or anything?

I have made a donation to the defense team and intend to make another on pay day.

I sent an email to England to ask about David inquest.

I post everyday to help keep this in the news for the b2 to get support from people more financially able than myself. In my holiday I intend to go visit them. ?what have you done ?

I think you should be writing to the big UK tabloids asking that they they put up a substantial standing offer for rights to the exclusive story of anyone -- Thai, Burmese, farang, whomever -- who can provide credible substantive evidence to bust this thing wide open.

So one person has listed something of substance and one person advises him what else to do. But offers nothing himself.

For the 2500 plus comments that's it?

Any more coming forward...

[boomerangutang]

Dear JLCrab, I don't think Ockham's or Occam's Razor (which is how it's most often spelled) really applies to the KT crime. Occam's Razor is most often applied to scientific endeavors. The KT crime has many considerations. OJ's crime wasn't simple either, and O.R. woudn't have appled there either. I think we can leave old Ockham out of it, but it's up to you. On 2nd thought, ok, maybe certain details may fit with the scrutiny of O.R. But it's a 'razor' not a fixed or foolproof way of gauging proof - particularly not as applied to a complicated crime scene.

I wasn't the one who first brought in William of Ockham -- the net is that you are still grasping at theories as to how someone got off the island when one possible explanation why you can't explain how he got off the island is that he wasn't on the island.

This was covered months ago. Speedboat speeds, distances to the airport as well as time flights from Samui and Chumphon have already been put forward to show it was possible.

No evidence to back up the claims obviously as Airport flight details are not public information.

Sure it's possible -- so is the spreading around of 100 million baht or so of hush money but there's been no credible sightings of either.

'hush money' by definition, is money which is 'hushed.' There are bunches of ways to do such things, and it doesn't always involve money. It can involve land deeds, valuable autos, jewelry, artwork, buddha statues, talismans, and other valuables, and/or promises to get a child placed in a good college, etc. .... many ways. ...including shuttling funds to a numbered account. I spoke with a Thai woman who was a VP at a University. She told me one common way to transfer money (for Thais) is to put an unmarked envelope full of cash, in a nice book, with just a little bit showing - and pass it over to the person, saying something like, "here's a little something for your daughter (or son/wife,dog,whatever)."

[boomerangutang]

Dear JLCrab, I don't think Ockham's or Occam's Razor (which is how it's most often spelled) really applies to the KT crime. Occam's Razor is most often applied to scientific endeavors. The KT crime has many considerations. OJ's crime wasn't simple either, and O.R. woudn't have appled there either. I think we can leave old Ockham out of it, but it's up to you. On 2nd thought, ok, maybe certain details may fit with the scrutiny of O.R. But it's a 'razor' not a fixed or foolproof way of gauging proof - particularly not as applied to a complicated crime scene.

I wasn't the one who first brought in William of Ockham -- the net is that you are still grasping at theories as to how someone got off the island when one possible explanation why you can't explain how he got off the island is that he wasn't on the island.

It's not impossible he was off the island. Most of us think he was on the island, so that's the premise we're dealing with. It's called a discussion of an investigation. Try adding something useful to the discussion.

[BritTim]

I think you should be writing to the big UK tabloids asking that they they put up a substantial standing offer for rights to the exclusive story of anyone -- Thai, Burmese, farang, whomever -- who can provide credible substantive evidence to bust this thing wide open.

I like the idea, but there is one nasty issue. Anyone claiming to be an eye witness that can be shown to be receiving financial inducements for his testimony is going to have his credibility seriously questioned. After all, how would we feel about a prosecution witness who is receiving a reward for testifying?

[loonodingle]

So ONLY Greenchair.......... has done something other than talk about it what they should do.

[Luang]

For all this chat has anybody done anything at all. Contacted police or MP or anything?

I have made a donation to the defense team and intend to make another on pay day.

I sent an email to England to ask about David inquest.

I post everyday to help keep this in the news for the b2 to get support from people more financially able than myself. In my holiday I intend to go visit them. ?what have you done ?

I think you should be writing to the big UK tabloids asking that they they put up a substantial standing offer for rights to the exclusive story of anyone -- Thai, Burmese, farang, whomever -- who can provide credible substantive evidence to bust this thing wide open.

So one person has listed something of substance and one person advises him what else to do. But offers nothing himself.

For the 2500 plus comments that's it?

Any more coming forward...

I think contacting Kent, Cameron , Hugo Swain via twitter is one way to keep up the anti

Edited January 4, 2015 by Luang

[greenchair]

For all this chat has anybody done anything at all. Contacted police or MP or anything?

I have made a donation to the defense team and intend to make another on pay day.

I sent an email to England to ask about David inquest.

I post everyday to help keep this in the news for the b2 to get support from people more financially able than myself. In my holiday I intend to go visit them. ?what have you done ?

I think you should be writing to the big UK tabloids asking that they they put up a substantial standing offer for rights to the exclusive story of anyone -- Thai, Burmese, farang, whomever -- who can provide credible substantive evidence to bust this thing wide open.

What on earth are you talking about now ?another novel. As they pay me fairly for my hard earned contributions to this site I shall leave the book deal to the moderators and ya self. I have my feet firmly on the ground thank you very much??

[Luang]

I think you should be writing to the big UK tabloids asking that they they put up a substantial standing offer for rights to the exclusive story of anyone -- Thai, Burmese, farang, whomever -- who can provide credible substantive evidence to bust this thing wide open.

I like the idea, but there is one nasty issue. Anyone claiming to be an eye witness that can be shown to be receiving financial inducements for his testimony is going to have his credibility seriously questioned. After all, how would we feel about a prosecution witness who is receiving a reward for testifying?

He's taking the proverbial you do realise?

[thailandchilli]

So ONLY Greenchair.......... has done something other than talk about it what they should do.

Steady on. These threads have been running for weeks and lots of very important contributions have been made by many posters infact some such as Hannahs phone incident have actually been acted upon by the RTP.

Nobody here needs to say on the forum whether they have made any contributions to the B2 defense fund or not, its up to them, anything else that people do is not done for personal gain and so no need to shout about it. I am sure if there's anything that can be realistically done by anyone then they are already doing it as best they can.

[greenchair]

So ONLY Greenchair.......... has done something other than talk about it what they should do.

Well that's not true. Dozens of people have spent dozens of hours finding information. Posting pictures. Helping less literate posters like myself. Even the ????have kept this going with their annoying baits. It does upset me when some insinuate that this site is a waste of time and csi also. I do believe the posting on these sites has put pressure on the rtp,prosecution, brit cops. But most of all the b2 would have been tried and convicted long ago if not for our constant complaining. Now they may or may not be guilty. But should have the right to present their innocence fairly. So post away people. We all are making a difference.