Just When I Got My Ducked Lined Up....

[tuffy]

I have spent the last few months trying to get a 1 year "O" visa.

Recently I obtained a 3 month "O" from Singapore. Now as time is running out on this visa I am prepared ( or thought I was) to apply for the 1 year extension.

My latest pitfall seems to be the US embassy (go figure).

I am told that I need to get our Wedding Certificate from the US certified by the US embassy. No problem I think until I ask the embassy and they say they don't do that and I need to send it to the States for authentication.

Has anyone run into this?

This may end up pushing me past the 21 days remaining on my 3 month visa.

That leads me to my second question..... does my visa need to be valid for 21days or more to apply for the 1 year extension?

Last question.... how many blank pages do I need to have in my passport to get a visa? I are running low on empty pages in that as well now. Is there anyway to renew or add pages while still in LOS?

I am slowly learning to love this place....if I could just fit in the hoops I am trying to jump through I would have it made!

Thanks for your input,

Scott

Edited August 8, 2006 by tuffy

[lopburi3]

The Embassy can not authenticate documents and there is a specific procedure outlined on Department of State website. The Embassy should be able to notarize your word that you are married if immigration will accept that. It is Immigration that has told you it must be "certified" by your Embassy? The normal method of certification in Thailand is to sign a photo copy.

There is no restriction to when you can apply - last day or permitted to stay would work.

You will need at least several to allow for short extension prior to final approval. The US Embassy can add pages while you wait free of charge.

[tuffy]

This is from the US Embassy in Thailnad web page. Unbelievably complicated....especially step 5....

Step 2: Contact the State Authentication Office

Authentication procedures vary from state to state. We strongly encourage patrons to contact their respective state’s authentication office for more information. Refer to the National Association of Secretaries of State website to locate the state specific Authentication Authorities at: http://www.nass.org Home page > NPA Section Tab > State Websites Tab > choose a state to get the state Notary Public website.

Step 3: Have Document Notarized, If Necessary

Depending on the state’s authentication requirements, many documents may need to be notarized by a Notary Public. Most Secretary of State Offices include a statewide list of notaries on their websites.

http://www.firstgov.gov Home Page > A-Z Agency Index > S > State Agencies by Topic > State Government Home Pages.

* In some cases, the Clerk of Court is required to certify that the Notary’s term has not expired, in the county where the Notary Public is commissioned.

Step 4: Obtain Signature and Seal from State Secretary of State

The document must then be signed and sealed by the Secretary of State in the state where the Notary is located, certifying to the Notary’s current status. For contact information, visit the State Department’s List of State Authentication Authorities at: http://www.state.gov home page > About State Department tab > Bureaus & Offices > Alphabetical List under Bureaus & Offices > Authentication Division > Authentication Requirements > Secretaries of State (Authentication Offices)

Step 5: Obtain U.S. Department of State Authentication

Forward all documents to the U.S. Department of State at the following address:

Department of State Documents Authentication Office

518 23rd ST. N.W., SA-1, Columbia Plaza

Washington, D.C. 20520

TEL: (202) 647-5002 or 1-800-688-9889, FAX: (202) 663-3636

The Department of State Documents Authentication Office charges a fee of $6.00.

Step 6. Obtain Embassy/Consulate Authentication

Once the documents have been authenticated by the U.S. Department of State, bring the documents to the foreign embassy in the United States of the country requesting the documents where they will do the final authentication.

[vinny]

See also Authentication of Documents for Use Abroad, Authentication of Vital Records, Academic, Commercial or Other Credentials in the U.S. (6 steps given above), Notarial Services and Adding Passport Pages.

Edited August 8, 2006 by vinny

[Maestro]

I am told that I need to get our Wedding Certificate from the US certified by the US embassy. No problem I think until I ask the embassy and they say they don't do that and I need to send it to the States for authentication.

Could it be that Immigration did not ask for your “Wedding Certificate from the US certified by the US embassy”, but for a certified translation of your US marriage certificate?

If the latter case were true, would it not simply mean to get your marriage certificate translated into Thai and then have the translator’s signature (not the document itself) authenticated by the US embassy? This would be something that is routinely handled by the translation services in the vicinity of the embassy.

---------------

Maestro

[tuffy]

I am told that I need to get our Wedding Certificate from the US certified by the US embassy. No problem I think until I ask the embassy and they say they don't do that and I need to send it to the States for authentication.

Could it be that Immigration did not ask for your “Wedding Certificate from the US certified by the US embassy”, but for a certified translation of your US marriage certificate?

If the latter case were true, would it not simply mean to get your marriage certificate translated into Thai and then have the translator’s signature (not the document itself) authenticated by the US embassy? This would be something that is routinely handled by the translation services in the vicinity of the embassy.

---------------

Maestro

At present I am using the service of a lawyer who said I needed to bring my US marriage certificate to the US embassy to have it certified. I am on my way to immigration right now to verify this.

[Maestro]

At present I am using the service of a lawyer who said I needed to bring my US marriage certificate to the US embassy to have it certified. I am on my way to immigration right now to verify this.

I forgot to mention that for a few Baht more, the translation service will also get the embassy official's signature authenticated by Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, as this might also be required by Immigration.

Some lawyers have a habit of doing things the most complicated way when simpler ways also exist. I hope that Immigration will agree to accept a certified translation. Good luck!

---------------

Maestro

[taxout]

As above, the US embassy will not directly certify a US wedding or birth certificate or the like.

However, they may notarize YOUR certification that it is a true copy of your birth or wedding certificate and the resulting nicely-stamped document may satisfy the Thai authorities.

If not, then the document has to be "legalised," which means a chain of official signatures, each certifying the preceding signature, with the chain ending at the Thai Embassy in the US.

It's complicated, but there are of course services out there which will do it for a fee.

Here's one off Google. I have no idea of their reliability:

www.uslegalization.com/nonpartp/thailand

(There's a much simpler procedure using an apostille to replace the chain of legalisations, but Thailand isn't party to the treaty establishing the apostille.)

Edited August 8, 2006 by taxout

[Maestro]

If not, then the document has to be "legalised," which means a chain of official signatures, each certifying the preceding signature, with the chain ending at the Thai Embassy in the US.

Why the Thai embassy in the US?

For a US person in Thailand, I believe the procedure is that the US consulate authenticates the person’s signature, then the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs authenticates the signature of the US consular official. This series of official authentication of signatures is commonly known as “legalization”.

Now, if the process is carried out outside Thailand, then it does indeed end with the authentication by the Thai consulate.

---------------

Maestro

[taxout]

The procedure in Thailand you describe doesn't actually legalise the underlying US document but only authenticates the signature of the US individual given before a US consul in Thailand.

If the document itself needs to be legalised, then the first signature in the chain is the signature of the US official issuing the document and this can only be legalised in the US, with the final step being authentication by the Thai Embassy.

When the document is legalised in the US, then the chain of signatures shows official verification of the document itself.

When a US person simply has his own signed certification of the document authenticated in Thailand, there's no official verification of the document, only verification of his signature.

It's up to the Thai officials demanding the document to decide which form of authentication they will accept.

[tuffy]

If not, then the document has to be "legalised," which means a chain of official signatures, each certifying the preceding signature, with the chain ending at the Thai Embassy in the US.

Why the Thai embassy in the US?

For a US person in Thailand, I believe the procedure is that the US consulate authenticates the person’s signature, then the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs authenticates the signature of the US consular official. This series of official authentication of signatures is commonly known as “legalization”.

Now, if the process is carried out outside Thailand, then it does indeed end with the authentication by the Thai consulate.

---------------

Maestro

Thanks for the help guys.

I am going to try this form of "legalization" and at this point I think I will promote myself to my own lawyer as I am tired of explaining the law to mine. I have heard it said if you are your own lawyer you have a fool for a client, I can live with that.

Option 1) Get the document authenticated from the US embassy..... then what division of Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs will I need to go to? I assume I would need it translated first?

Am I on the right track with this office?

Legalization Division

Department of Consular Affairs

Ministry of Foreign Affairs

3rd Floor, 123 Chaeng Wattana Road

Tung Song Hong, Laksi District, Bangkok

Tel:(02) 575-1057-8, Fax:(02) 575-1054

Option 2 I could fill out an affidavit at the US embassy, have it translated, take it to the above office. Then go to a local Ampur and register as married.

2 questions here...

Is there a draw back to registering as married under Thai law as far as land ownership or anything other situation goes for my wife.

Is there a long wait to receive this affidavit or another part of the marriage process. Apparently my Lawyer told my wife that there may be a delay of up to a month......any idea on this?

In your opinion what will be the least painful way of wading through this last mud hole?

[peterjackson]

Hey

The most painless way out of your problem, may be to contact the forum sponsors SunbeltAsia.

They always seem to know the answers and get the job done.

Kind regards

Peter

[Maestro]

The procedure in Thailand you describe doesn't actually legalise the underlying US document but only authenticates the signature of the US individual given before a US consul in Thailand.

If the document itself needs to be legalised, then the first signature in the chain is the signature of the US official issuing the document and this can only be legalised in the US, with the final step being authentication by the Thai Embassy.

You are right, taxout. This is exactly why I said that the question was whether Immigration wanted the document “certified” or whether they only want a certified translation. There is a clear difference between the two, the former being much more complicated, costly and time-consuming for tuffy to obtain. It is certainly worth tuffy’s while to seek clarification from Immigration exactly which of the two they really want.

For all we know, if tuffy arrives at Immigration with a certified (legalised) original marriage certificate in English language, Immigration may say that they want a certified (legalised) Thai translation. In may other threads I have read that whenever a required document was available only in a foreign language, Immigration wanted a certified translation, legalised up to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, whereby it was the signature of the translator that needed to authenticated (legalised)

---------------

Maestro

Edited August 8, 2006 by maestro

[Maestro]

The search function of ThaiVisa is hopeless, but googling I got the attached result. Unfortunately, however, clicking on the link of the first result, which looked promising, merely brings me to the forum index. I was interested in finding out what that stamp of the US embassy on the marriage certificate was.

Does anybody have better luck with this type of search, either on ThaiVisa or on google.com?

---------------

Maestro

marriage_certificate_certified.pdf

[vinny]

Try searching with "US marriage certificate"

[naka]

Can you not get a visa based or retirement ... less hassle ... ?

Naka.

[thaihome]

Option 2 I could fill out an affidavit at the US embassy, have it translated, take it to the above office. Then go to a local Ampur and register as married.

2 questions here...

Is there a draw back to registering as married under Thai law as far as land ownership or anything other situation goes for my wife.

Is there a long wait to receive this affidavit or another part of the marriage process. Apparently my Lawyer told my wife that there may be a delay of up to a month......any idea on this?

In your opinion what will be the least painful way of wading through this last mud hole?

First thing you need to do is fire your lawyer, he is just making your life complicated. Getting married in Thailand can be done in 3 days or even one (with a little tea money). Does not affect your wife's land owning rights (if your lawyer said this, you need to shoot him as well). Your problem is the affidavit you sign at Embassy is your sworn statement you are into married. Problem is you are.

I think you need to take your US marriage license and get a certified Thai translation and ask them to take to Foreign Ministry and get it legalized.

If you are over 50, I strongly suggest you go for the retirement visa extension. This seems much less complicated, though you do have to show a larger bank balance. Take the money you save from the lawyer.

TH

[tuffy]

Option 2 I could fill out an affidavit at the US embassy, have it translated, take it to the above office. Then go to a local Ampur and register as married.

2 questions here...

Is there a draw back to registering as married under Thai law as far as land ownership or anything other situation goes for my wife.

Is there a long wait to receive this affidavit or another part of the marriage process. Apparently my Lawyer told my wife that there may be a delay of up to a month......any idea on this?

In your opinion what will be the least painful way of wading through this last mud hole?

First thing you need to do is fire your lawyer, he is just making your life complicated. Getting married in Thailand can be done in 3 days or even one (with a little tea money). Does not affect your wife's land owning rights (if your lawyer said this, you need to shoot him as well). Your problem is the affidavit you sign at Embassy is your sworn statement you are into married. Problem is you are.

I think you need to take your US marriage license and get a certified Thai translation and ask them to take to Foreign Ministry and get it legalized.If you are over 50, I strongly suggest you go for the retirement visa extension. This seems much less complicated, though you do have to show a larger bank balance. Take the money you save from the lawyer.

TH

I am not over 50 so the retirement visa is not an option. I have a feeling if i do as you suggest I will have all I need to apply and get the extension. I am unfamiliar with this process but what i understand is the translator will translate the document AND get it legalized by the foreign Ministry? I assume that any/all translators found near the embassy will do?

I am not in BKK and would like to take care of this in the same day if possible, when I do go. Any tips or suggestions on this process?

[thaihome]

Option 2 I could fill out an affidavit at the US embassy, have it translated, take it to the above office. Then go to a local Ampur and register as married.

2 questions here...

Is there a draw back to registering as married under Thai law as far as land ownership or anything other situation goes for my wife.

Is there a long wait to receive this affidavit or another part of the marriage process. Apparently my Lawyer told my wife that there may be a delay of up to a month......any idea on this?

In your opinion what will be the least painful way of wading through this last mud hole?

First thing you need to do is fire your lawyer, he is just making your life complicated. Getting married in Thailand can be done in 3 days or even one (with a little tea money). Does not affect your wife's land owning rights (if your lawyer said this, you need to shoot him as well). Your problem is the affidavit you sign at Embassy is your sworn statement you are into married. Problem is you are.

I think you need to take your US marriage license and get a certified Thai translation and ask them to take to Foreign Ministry and get it legalized.If you are over 50, I strongly suggest you go for the retirement visa extension. This seems much less complicated, though you do have to show a larger bank balance. Take the money you save from the lawyer.

TH

I am not over 50 so the retirement visa is not an option. I have a feeling if i do as you suggest I will have all I need to apply and get the extension. I am unfamiliar with this process but what i understand is the translator will translate the document AND get it legalized by the foreign Ministry? I assume that any/all translators found near the embassy will do?

I am not in BKK and would like to take care of this in the same day if possible, when I do go. Any tips or suggestions on this process?

Since you are not over 50 and apparently not eligible for work related extension, I assume you can show the 400K in Thai bank received from overseas? I understand that immigration can be somewhat suspicious of some one under 50, with no job in Thailand applying for what is technically a "Supporting Thai wife" visa extension with no visible means of support. I have heard stories here where this can go on for some time while they verify your eligibility, this includes home visits and neighbor interviews.

TH

[Maestro]

Since you are not over 50 and apparently not eligible for work related extension, I assume you can show the 400K in Thai bank received from overseas? I understand that immigration can be somewhat suspicious of some one under 50, with no job in Thailand applying for what is technically a "Supporting Thai wife" visa extension with no visible means of support. I have heard stories here where this can go on for some time while they verify your eligibility, this includes home visits and neighbor interviews.

What was the question again? Ah, yes, here it is:

I am told that I need to get our Wedding Certificate from the US certified by the US embassy. No problem I think until I ask the embassy and they say they don't do that and I need to send it to the States for authentication.

Has anyone run into this?

Just to bring this thread back on topic before somebody comes and tells the original poster where to get a good haircut in Bangkok.

---------------

Maestro

[tuffy]

Since you are not over 50 and apparently not eligible for work related extension, I assume you can show the 400K in Thai bank received from overseas? I understand that immigration can be somewhat suspicious of some one under 50, with no job in Thailand applying for what is technically a "Supporting Thai wife" visa extension with no visible means of support. I have heard stories here where this can go on for some time while they verify your eligibility, this includes home visits and neighbor interviews.

What was the question again? Ah, yes, here it is:

I am told that I need to get our Wedding Certificate from the US certified by the US embassy. No problem I think until I ask the embassy and they say they don't do that and I need to send it to the States for authentication.

Has anyone run into this?

Just to bring this thread back on topic before somebody comes and tells the original poster where to get a good haircut in Bangkok.

---------------

Maestro

What I would like to come away from this thread knowing is whether i can get by with a notarized/translated/authenticated US wedding cert. or not. I am going to Bkk soon with this assumption and maybe get the process rolling to get a Thai wedding cert. as a backup plan.

[lopburi3]

Why not try giving them a telephone call at 0-2213-2556 during normal office hours. Believe most posters have been married here so do not have personal experience to share.

[Sulaphat]

My wife and I were married in the US. When I applied for Thai residency based upon marriage to a Thai national I had the US embassy certify, among other things, a photocopy of our US marriage certificate. Our lawyer took care of translating the marriage certificate and all other documents and I am not sure whether any of the translations went to the MoFA for certification. I don't think so. I definitely did not go through the process of getting things vetted or certified by any officials in the US. Things may have changed in the intervening years, so I would suggest you get in touch with a lawyer who is current on immigration procedures. Sunbelt would probably know the answer.