Koh Tao murder trial date brought forward by 2 months

[wilcopops]

Who brought it forward and WHY???

Is this just more behind the scenes by in meting? Who benefits from having the trial date changed? Are the authorities trying to railroad the trial?

[phuketandsee]

From Andy Hall:

Just finished a very intense 4 hours strategy meeting/discussions with Koh Tao case lead lawyer and senior advisor to LCT Koh Tao case legal team Nakhon Chompuchat in Bangkok.

Nakhon is also my lawyer in Natural Fruit cases and my personal hero for his hard work and commitment to human rights issues in Thailand

Nakhon explained to me in detail how Koh Tao case preliminary court hearing brought forward from Feb 25th 2015 to Dec 26th 2014 has the most serious and concerning implications for his preparation of the defense case against the charges laid against the defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo. He explained (see picture one) Samui court now demanded 10 sets of documents/evidence from both defense/prosecution to be submitted at same time by 18th Dec 2014 (in 7 days time), 7 days prior to the hearing on 26th Dec 2014.

These 10 required documents/evidence the defense must urgently assemble are:

(1) List of how many witnesses/evidence will be brought for consideration of court;
(2) Explanation of how each of witnesses/evidence brought for consideration of court relats to particular charge or case issue;
(3) List of witnesses who will be called to give testimony of same issues;
(4) List of witnesses or evidence/information that request other side to accept;
(5) List of forensic science witnesses or evidence such as results of verification or experts that will be brought for consideration of the court and in relation to which specific case issues must be stated clearly;
(6) List of issues that require viewing of the scene or transferring to another court
(7) List of order of bringing to court the witnesses for testimony
(8) List of any child or youth witnesses below the age of 18 or any witnesses requiring translation during testimony
(9) List of witnesses that the court has to issue the summons to appear at the court on date of testimony
(10) Statement of the number of days the two parties to the case need to use for witness/evidence testimony

Nakhon must lead the defense lawyers team now to prepare defense arguments and witnesses without EVER SEEING prosecution witness list/arguments. In essence, the defense team only has the complaint prosecuted at the court, a 6 page bland document stating what Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo are charged of, and the Thai autopsy or victim medical report but nothing else of substance.

Nakhon explained to me how Samui court stated Koh Tao case preliminary hearing brought forward to 26th Dec 2014 (in 15 days time) from 25 Feb 2015 to ensure swift justice/effective case management for all sides. Following court discussions, Nakhon reported that reason for sudden date change in afternoon was concern defendants would otherwise remain jailed for long time without trial so must speed up case hearings.

Nakhon expressed deep concern how Koh Tao prosecutor (Koh Samui prosecutors office) prosecuted the case against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo on 4th Dec without submitting any witness/evidence lists, even though the prosecutor stated that their preparation was all completed and hence must have all lists complete already. This makes he and his lawyers defense team's preparation very difficult as the defense have no idea what the evidence against the defendants is but have to submit within 7 days a final and complete list of all their evidence/witnesses.

Finally, the prosecution in Koh Tao case frequently reported to media that the reason for prior delay prosecuting the accused was that the victims family had not replied to join the prosecution. However, now the judge/court ordered yesterday (picture two) the prosecution to continue without the victims families response. The court heard the David Miller's family is expected to respond relating to the opportunity to join the prosecution and claim damages by Fri 12th Dec but there has been no response from the family of Hannah Witheridge.

Shameful.

[wilcopops]

Who brought it forward and WHY???

Is this just more behind the scenes meddling? Who benefits from having the trial date changed? Are the authorities trying to railroad the trial?

Edited December 10, 2014 by wilcopops

[Chris Lawrence]

All aboard? Sounds as though someone is getting railroaded?

Wonder how the defence feels having this time frame to prepare?

[Tanlic]

There was never any chance that this trial was going to wait until after the Inquest in the UK before getting started. Too risky.

Geez some people talk so much trash on here.

Before or after what's the difference.

If by some remote chance the UK report said the guys were innocent and they had already been found guilty then you'd know what an uproar was.

Do you think for one minute the Thais don't already know what the UK inquest result will be?

Stop knocking Thailand and go tell the UK to get their finger out their backside bunch or bureaucratic buffoons

[maidee]

ah yes, high season, need conviction quickly, or they might lose more $$$

doesn't matter if guilty or not, they will hang

[taony]

Andy Hall: some tweets from the RTP in London.

Tweet 1) Senior official meeting in London all agreed Koh Tao case transparent successful investigation

Tweet 2) Family victims Koh Tao case confident in Police investigation as professional/correct

So everybody agrees the case was transparent & successfully investigated + the family victims are confident this investigation was professional & correct. I wonder what the definition of professional is in Thai. Do they mean uploading crime scene pictures to Facebook as professional? And what about transparency? Do they mean the pancake vendor who claimed the bottle of wine was the second murder weapon was an officially appointed translator? And what about correct? Do they mean people all walking over a crime scene with no forensic DNA expert present is correct?

I tell you what, it is the prefect case!

Apparently the families are buying it, so I guess CSILA can cancel his ballistic dummies experiment. It all seems like a done deal before the defense has even seen the evidence. I fear it is game over for the B2 as some predicted on day one they were arrested.

In a few hours the British side will put out a few tweets that they said no such things and these RTP tweets will get deleted.

[monk213]

DM07 you know too much! Seriously, my sense of humour is all I have to keep me sain. I have posted for months on these murders and really I want closure, I want it erased from my mind. Those graphic photos haunt me. R.I.P Hannah. R.I.P David you are angels in heaven now. I'm still going back to Koh Tao the murder or murderers want stop me. I love the island too. Heal Koh Tao. Heal people of Koh Tao. Amen

Let the <deleted> place sink into the ocean more like it, the locals showed themselves for what they really are when they led the police in circles. Bunch of cowards holding ceremonies at temples while at the same time not giving the police a crumb to help the investigations.

<deleted> the lot of em', I will never step foot on that island again in my life and if some more foreigners had a bit of respect for fellow tourists and ex-pats they would do the exact same thing until the Thai government got the message - we're not here to get ripped off, assaulted, raped or murdered.

Bringing the case forward by two months is an utter disgrace and thee is no justification for it at all.

Amen to that

[z42]

From what Andy Hall mentioned on his twitter feed the reason the trial date is to be bought forward is so that the accused men don't spend any more time incarcerated while the trial process is in motion.

This begs 2 major questions for me however.

1, why is the possibility of bail completely off the table here & why must they be locked up indefinitely?

2, why would the accused men object to spending an extra month or 2 in jail if it is conducive to their lawyers having ample time to defend them and exhonerate them, freeing them from a jail cell for the next 50 years.

It certainly looks like there are other motives and forces at play here, looks like it is "a fair trial" in name only. Sick and wrong.

[Norvid]

The prosecutors gathered the evidence for many month "happily" supplying it in a very controversial manners and public releases. The defense has been not furnish with these 600 pages. How the defense could be prepared? It looks like they are rushing to kill those youngsters asap and this is a disgrace of the Thai justice system itself. It looks to me like Holly Inquisition and not democratic process.

[Fat Haggis]

Dec 26th is still Xmas, disrespectful for the foreign witnesses to make them live and travel on Xmas day to be in present.

It sounds like to hope/wish that they wont show up.

There is no Christmas (not Xmas, that is disrespectful to believers) in Thailand, it has no effect on Thai procedures, neither should

it.

Which foreign witnesses did you have in mind anyway, there weren't any were there?

Christmas decorations going up in many houses in my village and surrounding ones too.

The 3 Christmases I've been here rhere have always been decorations going up so your not quite correct in what you've stated here!!

[lookin around]

Boxing day all UK Government officials hungover, they could be shot and burned before January the 1st, how convenient, ( the falangs won't notice then cos it's Xmas ), let's hope it's a fair trial, but judging by how it's all turned out so far !!!!.........

[DM07]

From Andy Hall:

Just finished a very intense 4 hours strategy meeting/discussions with Koh Tao case lead lawyer and senior advisor to LCT Koh Tao case legal team Nakhon Chompuchat in Bangkok.

Nakhon is also my lawyer in Natural Fruit cases and my personal hero for his hard work and commitment to human rights issues in Thailand

Nakhon explained to me in detail how Koh Tao case preliminary court hearing brought forward from Feb 25th 2015 to Dec 26th 2014 has the most serious and concerning implications for his preparation of the defense case against the charges laid against the defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo. He explained (see picture one) Samui court now demanded 10 sets of documents/evidence from both defense/prosecution to be submitted at same time by 18th Dec 2014 (in 7 days time), 7 days prior to the hearing on 26th Dec 2014.

These 10 required documents/evidence the defense must urgently assemble are:

(1) List of how many witnesses/evidence will be brought for consideration of court;

(2) Explanation of how each of witnesses/evidence brought for consideration of court relats to particular charge or case issue;

(3) List of witnesses who will be called to give testimony of same issues;

(4) List of witnesses or evidence/information that request other side to accept;

(5) List of forensic science witnesses or evidence such as results of verification or experts that will be brought for consideration of the court and in relation to which specific case issues must be stated clearly;

(6) List of issues that require viewing of the scene or transferring to another court

(7) List of order of bringing to court the witnesses for testimony

(8) List of any child or youth witnesses below the age of 18 or any witnesses requiring translation during testimony

(9) List of witnesses that the court has to issue the summons to appear at the court on date of testimony

(10) Statement of the number of days the two parties to the case need to use for witness/evidence testimony

Nakhon must lead the defense lawyers team now to prepare defense arguments and witnesses without EVER SEEING prosecution witness list/arguments. In essence, the defense team only has the complaint prosecuted at the court, a 6 page bland document stating what Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo are charged of, and the Thai autopsy or victim medical report but nothing else of substance.

Nakhon explained to me how Samui court stated Koh Tao case preliminary hearing brought forward to 26th Dec 2014 (in 15 days time) from 25 Feb 2015 to ensure swift justice/effective case management for all sides. Following court discussions, Nakhon reported that reason for sudden date change in afternoon was concern defendants would otherwise remain jailed for long time without trial so must speed up case hearings.

Nakhon expressed deep concern how Koh Tao prosecutor (Koh Samui prosecutors office) prosecuted the case against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo on 4th Dec without submitting any witness/evidence lists, even though the prosecutor stated that their preparation was all completed and hence must have all lists complete already. This makes he and his lawyers defense team's preparation very difficult as the defense have no idea what the evidence against the defendants is but have to submit within 7 days a final and complete list of all their evidence/witnesses.

Finally, the prosecution in Koh Tao case frequently reported to media that the reason for prior delay prosecuting the accused was that the victims family had not replied to join the prosecution. However, now the judge/court ordered yesterday (picture two) the prosecution to continue without the victims families response. The court heard the David Miller's family is expected to respond relating to the opportunity to join the prosecution and claim damages by Fri 12th Dec but there has been no response from the family of Hannah Witheridge.

Shameful.

[Norvid]

I try to make a comment, but was rejected.

To me this whole process stinks. It looks like Holly Inquisition and not a democratic process. To gather prosecutor's 600 pages took months in a very controversial manners. The defense has only two weeks to read and prepare defense. This is not a joke, it is travesty of Thai justice system. Things like that were in Stalinist time all over Easter block countries and after 1944 Hitler's assassination attempt by Count Staufenberg where accused was already guilty as charged. Where is democracy? Where are civil rights? The accused are not guilty until proven otherwise.

[yellowboat]

What are the legal grounds for moving up the trial ?

[HeijoshinCool]

DM07 you know too much! Seriously, my sense of humour is all I have to keep me sain. I have posted for months on these murders and really I want closure, I want it erased from my mind. Those graphic photos haunt me. R.I.P Hannah. R.I.P David you are angels in heaven now. I'm still going back to Koh Tao the murder or murderers want stop me. I love the island too. Heal Koh Tao. Heal people of Koh Tao. Amen

.

Very difficult for a wound to heal when it's so badly infected with bacteria.

[newcomer71]

From Andy Hall:

Just finished a very intense 4 hours strategy meeting/discussions with Koh Tao case lead lawyer and senior advisor to LCT Koh Tao case legal team Nakhon Chompuchat in Bangkok.

Nakhon is also my lawyer in Natural Fruit cases and my personal hero for his hard work and commitment to human rights issues in Thailand

Nakhon explained to me in detail how Koh Tao case preliminary court hearing brought forward from Feb 25th 2015 to Dec 26th 2014 has the most serious and concerning implications for his preparation of the defense case against the charges laid against the defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo. He explained (see picture one) Samui court now demanded 10 sets of documents/evidence from both defense/prosecution to be submitted at same time by 18th Dec 2014 (in 7 days time), 7 days prior to the hearing on 26th Dec 2014.

These 10 required documents/evidence the defense must urgently assemble are:

(1) List of how many witnesses/evidence will be brought for consideration of court;

(2) Explanation of how each of witnesses/evidence brought for consideration of court relats to particular charge or case issue;

(3) List of witnesses who will be called to give testimony of same issues;

(4) List of witnesses or evidence/information that request other side to accept;

(5) List of forensic science witnesses or evidence such as results of verification or experts that will be brought for consideration of the court and in relation to which specific case issues must be stated clearly;

(6) List of issues that require viewing of the scene or transferring to another court

(7) List of order of bringing to court the witnesses for testimony

(8) List of any child or youth witnesses below the age of 18 or any witnesses requiring translation during testimony

(9) List of witnesses that the court has to issue the summons to appear at the court on date of testimony

(10) Statement of the number of days the two parties to the case need to use for witness/evidence testimony

Nakhon must lead the defense lawyers team now to prepare defense arguments and witnesses without EVER SEEING prosecution witness list/arguments. In essence, the defense team only has the complaint prosecuted at the court, a 6 page bland document stating what Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo are charged of, and the Thai autopsy or victim medical report but nothing else of substance.

Nakhon explained to me how Samui court stated Koh Tao case preliminary hearing brought forward to 26th Dec 2014 (in 15 days time) from 25 Feb 2015 to ensure swift justice/effective case management for all sides. Following court discussions, Nakhon reported that reason for sudden date change in afternoon was concern defendants would otherwise remain jailed for long time without trial so must speed up case hearings.

Nakhon expressed deep concern how Koh Tao prosecutor (Koh Samui prosecutors office) prosecuted the case against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo on 4th Dec without submitting any witness/evidence lists, even though the prosecutor stated that their preparation was all completed and hence must have all lists complete already. This makes he and his lawyers defense team's preparation very difficult as the defense have no idea what the evidence against the defendants is but have to submit within 7 days a final and complete list of all their evidence/witnesses.

Finally, the prosecution in Koh Tao case frequently reported to media that the reason for prior delay prosecuting the accused was that the victims family had not replied to join the prosecution. However, now the judge/court ordered yesterday (picture two) the prosecution to continue without the victims families response. The court heard the David Miller's family is expected to respond relating to the opportunity to join the prosecution and claim damages by Fri 12th Dec but there has been no response from the family of Hannah Witheridge.

Shameful.

This kind of court procedure is shocking!

If something like that would happen in any developed country it would be a major scandal.

[yellowboat]

Good, the quicker this is put to bed the better for everyone. Happy New Year Koh Tao. See you soon for another great diving holiday on yoir beautiful coral reefs and sun kissed beaches. Amen.

Most of us are concerned about justice and could not give a TOSS about your frivolous holiday plans and opinion in general.

[HeijoshinCool]

From Andy Hall:

Just finished a very intense 4 hours strategy meeting/discussions with Koh Tao case lead lawyer and senior advisor to LCT Koh Tao case legal team Nakhon Chompuchat in Bangkok.

Nakhon is also my lawyer in Natural Fruit cases and my personal hero for his hard work and commitment to human rights issues in Thailand

Nakhon explained to me in detail how Koh Tao case preliminary court hearing brought forward from Feb 25th 2015 to Dec 26th 2014 has the most serious and concerning implications for his preparation of the defense case against the charges laid against the defendants Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo. He explained (see picture one) Samui court now demanded 10 sets of documents/evidence from both defense/prosecution to be submitted at same time by 18th Dec 2014 (in 7 days time), 7 days prior to the hearing on 26th Dec 2014.

These 10 required documents/evidence the defense must urgently assemble are:

(1) List of how many witnesses/evidence will be brought for consideration of court;

(2) Explanation of how each of witnesses/evidence brought for consideration of court relats to particular charge or case issue;

(3) List of witnesses who will be called to give testimony of same issues;

(4) List of witnesses or evidence/information that request other side to accept;

(5) List of forensic science witnesses or evidence such as results of verification or experts that will be brought for consideration of the court and in relation to which specific case issues must be stated clearly;

(6) List of issues that require viewing of the scene or transferring to another court

(7) List of order of bringing to court the witnesses for testimony

(8) List of any child or youth witnesses below the age of 18 or any witnesses requiring translation during testimony

(9) List of witnesses that the court has to issue the summons to appear at the court on date of testimony

(10) Statement of the number of days the two parties to the case need to use for witness/evidence testimony

Nakhon must lead the defense lawyers team now to prepare defense arguments and witnesses without EVER SEEING prosecution witness list/arguments. In essence, the defense team only has the complaint prosecuted at the court, a 6 page bland document stating what Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo are charged of, and the Thai autopsy or victim medical report but nothing else of substance.

Nakhon explained to me how Samui court stated Koh Tao case preliminary hearing brought forward to 26th Dec 2014 (in 15 days time) from 25 Feb 2015 to ensure swift justice/effective case management for all sides. Following court discussions, Nakhon reported that reason for sudden date change in afternoon was concern defendants would otherwise remain jailed for long time without trial so must speed up case hearings.

Nakhon expressed deep concern how Koh Tao prosecutor (Koh Samui prosecutors office) prosecuted the case against Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo on 4th Dec without submitting any witness/evidence lists, even though the prosecutor stated that their preparation was all completed and hence must have all lists complete already. This makes he and his lawyers defense team's preparation very difficult as the defense have no idea what the evidence against the defendants is but have to submit within 7 days a final and complete list of all their evidence/witnesses.

Finally, the prosecution in Koh Tao case frequently reported to media that the reason for prior delay prosecuting the accused was that the victims family had not replied to join the prosecution. However, now the judge/court ordered yesterday (picture two) the prosecution to continue without the victims families response. The court heard the David Miller's family is expected to respond relating to the opportunity to join the prosecution and claim damages by Fri 12th Dec but there has been no response from the family of Hannah Witheridge.

Shameful.

.

More transparency here; a transparent move to deny the defendants a fair trial.

The victims are often referred to as "backpackers." The accused are typically called "immigrants."

But what they really are, is what most posters here are:

Foreigners.

The possibility of ever having to submit myself, as victim or accused, to the whims of those who administer Thailand's version of justice, brings to mind Dante's famous words: "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."

[wilcopops]

There was never any chance that this trial was going to wait until after the Inquest in the UK before getting started. Too risky.

Geez some people talk so much trash on here.

Before or after what's the difference.

If by some remote chance the UK report said the guys were innocent and they had already been found guilty then you'd know what an uproar was.

Do you think for one minute the Thais don't already know what the UK inquest result will be?

Stop knocking Thailand and go tell the UK to get their finger out their backside bunch or bureaucratic buffoons

I take it you haven't been following this case?

[jdinasia]

Boxing day all UK Government officials hungover, they could be shot and burned before January the 1st, how convenient, ( the falangs won't notice then cos it's Xmas ), let's hope it's a fair trial, but judging by how it's all turned out so far !!!!.........

No. They couldn't "be shot and burned before January the 1st "; that is just a fantasy held by the conspiracy theorists.

[phil2407]

No suprise!! They bring forward original plea court case by 3 hours - and defendants not there - now bring forward court case by 2 months after prosecution wasted months collecting "evidence" and give defence lawyers just a few weeks to read everything - and try and defend 2 possibly innocent guys - what a joke!!!! And just before the UK report is released in Jan - I sense major stitch up

[transam]

UK Authorities.......

"Would you be so kind as to bring your report forward before the Christmas break."

Thank you.............

[siampolee]

Just a thought.

But one wonders whether some of the, ''hang em high brigade foreigners'' here might have advised their ''friends'' in the police farce force that pushing for a Christmasing trial period would indeed be a wise time to proceed with this case as most foreigners will be preoccupied with Christmas and New Year celebrations.

Hence public opinon would be focused on said festivities as opposed to this flawed case and as a result injustice could be done.

Edited December 10, 2014 by siampolee

[mihalis]

All you who, keep going on with these comments, they aren't guilty, been framed, and so on.. Put your money where your mouth is, and support their legal battle.. As far as the family is concerned, they are happy, with who has been charged, im sure the British investigators, have informed them of certain things.. Really, words do nothing, $$$$$$$$ will help..........

[Docno]

Completely insensitive to the victims' families. They will likely want to attend the trial (assuming such is permitted) and suddenly everything changes and they have to plan for a trip around the world within 2 weeks. Just lovely.

[siampolee]

mihalis post # 85.

All you who, keep going on with these comments, they aren't guilty, been framed, and so on.. Put your money where your mouth is, and support their legal battle.. As far as the family is concerned, they are happy, with who has been charged, im sure the British investigators, have informed them of certain things.. Really, words do nothing, $$$$$$$$ will help.........

.

Well how much are you contributing to the fund?

And as an aside how do you know that some of us may well have funded the defence lawyers?

[thailauren]

Something stinks. I remember a wealthy person ran over a policemen in his farrari and they failed to prosecute until it was too late...... but then again i could be wrong.

You are wrong. One charge was dropped due to the expiration of the statute of limitations, the charge relating to the officers death remains.

Ok so a charge was dropped because the RTP was taken care of or maybe they could not find witnesses on a busy Bangkok street in time to testify. And the charge relating to the death may never see the light of day. Even though its been over a year now. Such is the way of justice in the LOS

[siampolee]

Docno post # 86.

Completely insensitive to the victims' families. They will likely want to attend the trial (assuming such is permitted) and suddenly everything changes and they have to plan for a trip around the world within 2 weeks. Just lovely.

Perhaps there is concern that those comments released by the police from the parents might not actually correspond with the comments of the parents .Thus any comments that might be made by the parents if they were to be here might prove that the truth of those earlier comments was manipulated

Poetic licence taken perchance with those comments, not an unusual fact here is it?

Edited December 10, 2014 by siampolee

[WhizBang]

... and the railroading continues.

What an utter disgrace Thailand has become.