Report on CIA details 'brutal' post-9/11 interrogations

[soalbundy]

the person being tortured would say anything to make them stop.

Including telling the truth. Interrogators have questioning techniques that separate the truth from lies.

How would you discern what was the truth and what was lies ? During the communist uprisings in Burma the British interrogated and got valuable information from the insurgents. During the Vietnam war the Americans remembered this and asked for advice from the British for their interrogations of the Vietcong, their advice was ignored because it involved speaking with the insurgents in a civilized manner over tea and cakes and making sure that their dependents received food and health care as long as the insurgent was in prison, the Americans couldn't believe that you could get information this way despite having had the proof that this worked.

[VegasVic]

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No surprise here. The Bush-Cheney administration was lawless. Why hide your torture techniques and try to cover up any investigation into them? Al Qaeda publicizes its beheadings on youtube. No reason for secrecy, unless what was being done violated US laws. International law is irrelevant in the US as the US wisely does not allow the Euros to have jurisdistic supremacy through its weak-kneed international agencies like the UN and ICC.

You are proving just how clueless you are my friend, none of this was done in the U.S.

[F430murci]

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If it smells like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist, looks like a terrorist, torture it as a terrorist. You can always say your sorry later. If one life was saved by doing this I am all for it. Screw the Democratic liberals.

Good thinking! Let's see, if I chop off one of these hydra heads, two more sprout up in its place. I know, let's chop off MORE hydra heads at a faster rate, that will solve the problem!

Something is working. US feels all warm fuzzy this holiday season with no concerns of planes being jacked or buses being blown up.

[dexterm]

Non-violent good cop psychological techniques DON'T produce better results with hardened terrorists. That is why the CIA used enhanced interrogation on them.

Wrong, UG!

The use of enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of acquiring intelligence

The report says other detainees who were not subjected to the techniques or else were questioned before they were subjected to them “provided significant accurate intelligence”. It also says multiple CIA detainees that did undergo the techniques fabricated information, which resulting in faulty intelligence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-torture-report-11-ways-in-which-the-cia-was-worse-than-it-ever-admitted-9913528.html

"There is almost no scientific evidence to back up the U.S. intelligence community's use of controversial interrogation techniques in the fight against terrorism, and experts believe some painful and coercive approaches could hinder the ability to get good information, according to a new report from an intelligence advisory group.|

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/15/AR2007011501204.html

"Experts advising the Bush administration on new interrogation rules warn that harsh techniques used since 2001 terrorist attacks are outmoded, amateurish and unreliable"

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9801E0D91430F933A05756C0A9619C8B63

[VegasVic]

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If it smells like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist, looks like a terrorist, torture it as a terrorist. You can always say your sorry later. If one life was saved by doing this I am all for it. Screw the Democratic liberals.

Apparently not even one life was saved.

Au contraire. Thousands of lives were saved and Bin Ladin was caught because of this program. NO current or former CIA officials were interviewed by the Senate Intelligence Committee for their report - NONE. It is a partisan sham.

The former directors argue that the CIA interrogation program “saved thousands of lives” by helping lead to the capture of top al Qaeda operatives and disrupting their plotting.

"A powerful example of the interrogation program’s importance is the information obtained from Abu Zubaydah, a senior al Qaeda operative, and from Khalid Sheik Muhammed, known as KSM, the 9/11 mastermind,” the former directors write. "We are convinced that both would not have talked absent the interrogation program.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cia-directors-interrogation-program-saved-thousands-lives/story?id=27470215

It is nice too see that someone here on thaivisa actually knows what is going on

[soalbundy]

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If it smells like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist, looks like a terrorist, torture it as a terrorist. You can always say your sorry later. If one life was saved by doing this I am all for it. Screw the Democratic liberals.

Good thinking! Let's see, if I chop off one of these hydra heads, two more sprout up in its place. I know, let's chop off MORE hydra heads at a faster rate, that will solve the problem!

Something is working. US feels all warm fuzzy this holiday season with no concerns of planes being jacked or buses being blown up.

So no more terrorist threats then, your words may come back to haunt you, it isn't even Christmas yet.

[VegasVic]

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Note to terrorists and would be terrorists.. no body promise you a rose garden, you knew

very well what are the risks associated with those terrorist actives, we see you on Al-Jazeera

looking so smug and macho walking around with the ninja outfits and tone of emmo and guns,

now take it like the piece of crap that you're,

just say thanks to your Allah the Israelis didn't interrogate you...

Or the Jordanians, the Saudiis, the Egyptians ect. ect. ect. the list is almost endless

[soalbundy]

I applaud the CIA for finally treating these murderers as they treat the world's citizens.

Even if many of those being tortured and degraded are innocent.

[Baghdad]

Until today there no real evidence who was actually behind the attack on. 9/11

[Ulysses G.]

Non-violent good cop psychological techniques DON'T produce better results with hardened terrorists. That is why the CIA used enhanced interrogation on them.

The use of enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of acquiring intelligence

Nonsense!

Q) You’re not going to recall all the details, but you’re saying that there was most certainly useful and even actionable intelligence produced after the enhanced interrogation techniques were employed?

A) Absolutely.

Q) No question?

A) No question. And it’s not just me saying it. Subsequent investigations by the CIA inspector general and other independent bodies confirmed that there was valuable, actionable intelligence derived first from Abu Zubaydah and later by other high-value detainees that were subjected to the enhanced techniques. I don’t think there’s any dispute about that.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/iraq-war-on-terror/the-interrogator/john-rizzo-cias-enhanced-interrogation-necessary-and-effective/

[VegasVic]

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Non-violent good cop psychological techniques DON'T produce better results with hardened terrorists. That is why the CIA used enhanced interrogation on them.

Wrong, UG!

The use of enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of acquiring intelligence

The report says other detainees who were not subjected to the techniques or else were questioned before they were subjected to them “provided significant accurate intelligence”. It also says multiple CIA detainees that did undergo the techniques fabricated information, which resulting in faulty intelligence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-torture-report-11-ways-in-which-the-cia-was-worse-than-it-ever-admitted-9913528.html

"There is almost no scientific evidence to back up the U.S. intelligence community's use of controversial interrogation techniques in the fight against terrorism, and experts believe some painful and coercive approaches could hinder the ability to get good information, according to a new report from an intelligence advisory group.|

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/15/AR2007011501204.html

"Experts advising the Bush administration on new interrogation rules warn that harsh techniques used since 2001 terrorist attacks are outmoded, amateurish and unreliable"

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9801E0D91430F933A05756C0A9619C8B63

The report says...the report says...the report says... you are quite a tool there Dex This report was a purely partisan political stunt to try and take the heat off the Dems and Obama after the crushing defeat at the polls in November then then the Presidents criminal act on immigration, it's called misdirection my friend, anybody who has ever been a magician knows this ploy Now run along Dex and go watch MSNBC like a good little left wing nut case

[Ulysses G.]

Exactly. The "report" is a partisan hoax. NO ONE in the CIA - past or present - was even interviewed.

[soalbundy]

Exactly. The "report" is a partisan hoax. NO ONE in the CIA - past or present - was even interviewed.

They obviously didn't want to be,considering the possible consequences of a ''wrong'' answer

[mania]

Maybe Americans need to ask more questions about their government's interference in other countries' affairs

+1

This.......

I know most accept the simple party line such as this....

Jealousy breeds resentment. Resentment breeds hate. Hate breeds terrorism.

All starts with jealousy so unless the US became pathetic like many of the countries that target us,

there will always be losers from those countries targeting us.

But even OBL's manifesto spelled out their reason & jealousy was not it.

I am in no way saying terrorist acts are acceptable

But I am saying it is equally unacceptable from any country/side

Instead it is always a "they" started it argument & it is not easy

for folks at our level of available truth to discern the truth

as we are given only bits of what is allowed to be given information wise.

But a simplistic claim like ...they hate us because their jealous is rather...simplistic

Edited December 10, 2014 by mania

[bobbin]

The moral dilemma is how to treat your enemies. If you lower yourself to adopt their tactics, you have removed the difference between you.

Interesting to note that UG is always present in these topics, defending all and every action of the US Government.

He loves America so much, yet refuses to live there......

[zaphod reborn]

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No surprise here. The Bush-Cheney administration was lawless. Why hide your torture techniques and try to cover up any investigation into them? Al Qaeda publicizes its beheadings on youtube. No reason for secrecy, unless what was being done violated US laws. International law is irrelevant in the US as the US wisely does not allow the Euros to have jurisdistic supremacy through its weak-kneed international agencies like the UN and ICC.

You are proving just how clueless you are my friend, none of this was done in the U.S.

Wrong there. Most of it was done within US jurisdiction. Those bases are under US jurisdiction per recent US Supreme Court rulings. Bushie's crack legal team thought they weren't, and they lost every jurisdictional battle they fought in the US Supreme Court.

Edited December 10, 2014 by zaphod reborn

[VegasVic]

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Note to terrorists and would be terrorists.. no body promise you a rose garden, you knew
very well what are the risks associated with those terrorist actives, we see you on Al-Jazeera
looking so smug and macho walking around with the ninja outfits and tone of emmo and guns,
now take it like the piece of crap that you're,
just say thanks to your Allah the Israelis didn't interrogate you...

Your post reflects badly on you and maybe attitudes like yours are the reason USA is targeted in the first place.

Jealousy breeds resentment. Resentment breeds hate. Hate breeds terrorism.

All starts with jealousy so unless the US became pathetic like many of the countries that target us, there will always be losers from those countries targeting us.

I remember Dubya chanting a similar mantra after 911..."America was targeted for attack because we're the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world."

The terrorists didn't give a hoot about the American way of life. They attacked because USA was sticking its nose into their way of life.

Geez Dex you really drink that koolaid by the gallon don't you Let me remind you of a few facts there young man (I say young man not to be condescending but due to the fact that any educated grownup would not spew forth the nonsense you seem to post) it was Saddam who invaded Kuwait and had eyes on the entire Arabian peninsula, it was the House of Saud who invited the U.S. into their country, it was not the U.S. sticking its nose in their way of life. Poor little usaama got mad because the House of Saud did not invite him and his cave dwellers into the Kingdom to fight off Saddam Now go back and watch some more MSNBC so you can spew forth some more lies here, we do so like exposing you left wing nuts for the dupes that you always prove yourselves to be

[VegasVic]

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No surprise here. The Bush-Cheney administration was lawless. Why hide your torture techniques and try to cover up any investigation into them? Al Qaeda publicizes its beheadings on youtube. No reason for secrecy, unless what was being done violated US laws. International law is irrelevant in the US as the US wisely does not allow the Euros to have jurisdistic supremacy through its weak-kneed international agencies like the UN and ICC.

You are proving just how clueless you are my friend, none of this was done in the U.S.

Wrong there. Most of it was done within US jurisdiction. Those bases are under US jurisdiction per recent US Supreme Court rulings.

Wrong again, NONE of this was done on U.S. soil or where the U.S. Justice Department would have any jurisdiction. Back to the drawing board for you Zap

[dexterm]

Non-violent good cop psychological techniques DON'T produce better results with hardened terrorists. That is why the CIA used enhanced interrogation on them.

The use of enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of acquiring intelligence

Nonsense!

Q) You’re not going to recall all the details, but you’re saying that there was most certainly useful and even actionable intelligence produced after the enhanced interrogation techniques were employed?

A) Absolutely.

Q) No question?

A) No question. And it’s not just me saying it. Subsequent investigations by the CIA inspector general and other independent bodies confirmed that there was valuable, actionable intelligence derived first from Abu Zubaydah and later by other high-value detainees that were subjected to the enhanced techniques. I don’t think there’s any dispute about that.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/iraq-war-on-terror/the-interrogator/john-rizzo-cias-enhanced-interrogation-necessary-and-effective/

Well, he would say that would't he?...and the CIA Inspector General agreed with him...surprise surprise.

John Rizzo, the lawyer at the CIA for 34 years who gave advise to Dubya and Rumsfeld that torture was legal, would obviously try to cover himself. The $40m Senate report has more veracity.

This is what they did to Abu Zubaydah after he had already been in isolation for 47 days:

"He was squeezed into tiny boxes for 300 hours and waterboarded no fewer than 80 times. Emails seen by investigators showed some of those involved asked to be transferred, so disturbed were they by what they witnessed. The waterboarding left Abu Zubaydah “completely unresponsive, with bubbles rising through his open, full mouth”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cia-torture-report-shows-the-cia-tortured-suspects-at-secret-overseas-sites-for-years-achieved-nothing-from-it-and-lied-about-it-9913901.html

so much for the "beacon of freedom and democracy"

Edited December 10, 2014 by dexterm

[theoldgit]

Highly offensive flame removed.

Edit: And some other posts, less offensive but still inflammatory.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Scott

[VegasVic]

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Exactly. The "report" is a partisan hoax. NO ONE in the CIA - past or present - was even interviewed.

U.G., Once again the left wing nuts here do not want to hear the truth, they just want to regurgitate the lies they hear on MSNBC or NPR or the Obama administration disinformation dept. Anyone who takes even one minute to look at this objectively knows that this is a pure partisan attack that was put forward as a misdirection ploy after the absolute beating the Dems took at the polls last month and the abysmal job that the Obama administration is doing The American public is fed up with this Obamcare mess now that they finally realize that they have been lied to time and again by Obama and his lackeys, thank God In less than 4 weeks the new Congress will be seated and this spring the Supreme court will hear the Obamacare subsidy and state exchange case, when the Supreme court rules it will be the begining of the end for Obamacare. RIP

[F430murci]

Maybe Americans need to ask more questions about their government's interference in other countries' affairs

+1

This.......

I know most accept the simple party line such as this....

Jealousy breeds resentment. Resentment breeds hate. Hate breeds terrorism.

All starts with jealousy so unless the US became pathetic like many of the countries that target us,

there will always be losers from those countries targeting us.

But even OBL's manifesto spelled out their reason & jealousy was not it.

I am in no way saying terrorist acts are acceptable

But I am saying it is equally unacceptable from any country/side

Instead it is always a "they" started it argument & it is not easy

for folks at our level of available truth to discern the truth

as we are given only bits of what is allowed to be given information wise.

But a simplistic claim like ...they hate us because their jealous is rather...simplistic

The resent our way of life and want to cause fear and disruption to our way of life. Perhaps not all, but most of this terrorist stuff is jealousy or envy at its core.

[soalbundy]

Maybe Americans need to ask more questions about their government's interference in other countries' affairs

+1

This.......

I know most accept the simple party line such as this....

Jealousy breeds resentment. Resentment breeds hate. Hate breeds terrorism.

All starts with jealousy so unless the US became pathetic like many of the countries that target us,

there will always be losers from those countries targeting us.

But even OBL's manifesto spelled out their reason & jealousy was not it.

I am in no way saying terrorist acts are acceptable

But I am saying it is equally unacceptable from any country/side

Instead it is always a "they" started it argument & it is not easy

for folks at our level of available truth to discern the truth

as we are given only bits of what is allowed to be given information wise.

But a simplistic claim like ...they hate us because their jealous is rather...simplistic

The resent our way of life and want to cause fear and disruption to our way of life. Perhaps not all, but most of this terrorist stuff is jealousy or envy at its core.

you left school at what age ?

[F430murci]

If it smells like a terrorist, acts like a terrorist, looks like a terrorist, torture it as a terrorist. You can always say your sorry later. If one life was saved by doing this I am all for it. Screw the Democratic liberals.

You can expect US citizens to receive the same treatment in future. Now fully sanctioned by America itself.

If a US citizen was in Russia blowing up buses or train stations, Russians have just as much right as anyone to do whatever it takes to extract information to discovery cells or other plans to do harm to civilians.

Now I do not agree with ISIS torturing and beheading Americans captured while trying to do charity work or help those suffering. Soldiers targeting militants also should not be tortured for doing their jobs. Now if soldiers are intentionally targeting innocent civilians, I have no sympathy for them.

[Scott]

An inflammatory, off-topic troll post has been removed. Continue and suspensions will be given. Please re-read the OP and post accordingly.

[pmarlin]

It was a tough time for the US. The country was responding to an attack on it's soil. Yes, there was a period when the gloves came off. Many government's around the globe looked the other way during this time.

and many helped. Which was a good thing. it saved lives and punished those who took lives.

[Scott]

This maybe of some interest to readers:

Competing claims of torture effectiveness

The Senate Intelligence Committee's report on the CIA program that included torturing al-Qaida detainees provides eight "primary" examples in which the CIA said it obtained good intelligence as a result of what it called "enhanced interrogation techniques," and the Senate panel's conclusions that the information was available elsewhere and without resorting to brutal interrogations.

A look at those examples of the CIA's claims and the Senate's counterclaims, according to the Senate report:

JOSE PADILLA

THE CIA SAID U.S. citizen Jose Padilla was implicated in the so-called Dirty Bomb/Tall Buildings plotting.

More here: http://news.yahoo.com/competing-claims-torture-effectiveness-180825288--politics.html

[Ulysses G.]

I believe JOSE PADILLA. I don't believe a partisan report that did not even interview ANYONE in the CIA - past or present.

[pitrevie]

If someone attached a pair of electrodes to my testicles I would confess to raping my own mother.

[klikster]

An interesting article for those with an open mind; http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/09/senate-committee-cia-torture-does-not-work

"The report finds that CIA detainees subjected to what were then called “enhanced interrogation techniques” either produced no intelligence, or they “fabricated information, resulting in faulty intelligence”. It says that the CIA’s own interrogators “assessed that the most effective method for acquiring intelligence from detainees, including from detainees the CIA considered to be the most ‘high-value’, was to confront the detainees with information already acquired by the intelligence community”.

“This is an authoritative conclusion,” said Philippe Sands, a law professor at University College, London and the author of Torture Team, an account of how torture came to be used increasingly on al-Qaida suspects in the wake of 9/11. “The Senate intelligence commission has been looking into this for several years. I know that they went into it with an open mind. Those who were engaged in the analysis followed the evidence. What it confirmed is what I was always told by US military psychologists, that torture produces information, but it does not produce reliable information.”"

More 'food for thought' http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/cia-reports-shocking-passages/

I guess I grew up thinking that we were supposed to show more character than them.