From post #628 above: I also see it primarily as an attempt to get some of the young farang who may have witnessed things - to speak up on record. Conversely, the reason some have not spoken up on the record is they may have not witnessed things.

There are Fiji islanders who also have not witnessed things re; the crime at Ko Tao. So what's your point?

"First off, the question wasn't addressed to me,"

You know you just show yourself to be incapable of understanding things with posts like this, here it goes again and I'm going to explain things slowly to you:

When you posted your question, you included a quote. Your question referred to the wording of that quote. That quote wasn't from me.

Again you're wrong, and frankly I don't care. I've moved on. The case has moved on. Your needle-stuck-on-the-LP thinking is boring, bordering on OCD. Don't worry though, the Headman's people who you're so frantic on shielding aren't ever going to be put behind bars. The RTP, hand in hand with the Headman and his riches, have made double sure of that. Rest easy, bud.

The case HAS moved on, and yes your fixation on people who are not suspects is bordering on OCD

"...people who are not suspects..." Who are the same people who were THE prime suspects in the first weeks of the investigation, when it was lead by the first head cop. The moment the 2nd head cop came down from Bkk, those prime suspects magically ceased to be suspects. Amazing Thailand! Reality check: Those former prime suspects may not have continued to be suspects for the Thai authorities, but for all reasonable people (non RTP-echoers) following this case, they are still suspects. You can scrape the thorns off a rose bush, but it's still a rose bush.

From post #628 above: I also see it primarily as an attempt to get some of the young farang who may have witnessed things - to speak up on record. Conversely, the reason some have not spoken up on the record is they may have not witnessed things.

There are Fiji islanders who also have not witnessed things re; the crime at Ko Tao. So what's your point?

If they didn't witness anything why should they have come forward.

From post #628 above: I also see it primarily as an attempt to get some of the young farang who may have witnessed things - to speak up on record. Conversely, the reason some have not spoken up on the record is they may have not witnessed things.

There are Fiji islanders who also have not witnessed things re; the crime at Ko Tao. So what's your point?

If they didn't witness anything why should they have come forward.

Its safe to assume there are witness's that would be of benefit to the defense, its also safe to assume they are too scared to speak out.

From post #628 above: I also see it primarily as an attempt to get some of the young farang who may have witnessed things - to speak up on record. Conversely, the reason some have not spoken up on the record is they may have not witnessed things.

There are Fiji islanders who also have not witnessed things re; the crime at Ko Tao. So what's your point?

If they didn't witness anything why should they have come forward.

Its safe to assume there are witness's that would be of benefit to the defense, its also safe to assume they are too scared to speak out.

Actually that isn't a safe assumption at all. It is certainly safe to assume that the conspiracy theorists believe this, as do some others. The defense may be able to take advantage of this argument.

"First off, the question wasn't addressed to me,"

You know you just show yourself to be incapable of understanding things with posts like this, here it goes again and I'm going to explain things slowly to you:

When you posted your question, you included a quote. Your question referred to the wording of that quote. That quote wasn't from me.

Again you're wrong, and frankly I don't care. I've moved on. The case has moved on. Your needle-stuck-on-the-LP thinking is boring, bordering on OCD. Don't worry though, the Headman's people who you're so frantic on shielding aren't ever going to be put behind bars. The RTP, hand in hand with the Headman and his riches, have made double sure of that. Rest easy, bud.

The case HAS moved on, and yes your fixation on people who are not suspects is bordering on OCD

"...people who are not suspects..." Who are the same people who were THE prime suspects in the first weeks of the investigation, when it was lead by the first head cop. The moment the 2nd head cop came down from Bkk, those prime suspects magically ceased to be suspects. Amazing Thailand! Reality check: Those former prime suspects may not have continued to be suspects for the Thai authorities, but for all reasonable people (non RTP-echoers) following this case, they are still suspects. You can scrape the thorns off a rose bush, but it's still a rose bush.

There were others who were "THE prime suspects" before the ones you have fixated upon. Gen. Panya's promotion was announced beforehand, and before he left for Bangkok he personally announced the pending arrest of the suspects. (just a day before the arrests).

Absolutely not safe for you as this may actually help the defense in getting a fair trial.

But I tend to take heed at reports from those who have incredible respect internationally for their work in the upholding of Human rights for the Burmese, even when they are helping the defense in this case as much as they can, but if you have a different opinion of the one below then that is your choice and very predictable.

“It’s really challenging getting witnesses for them because everyone’s so scared,” Hall said. He said that Thais living on Koh Tao are especially scared to speak out, because they have names and addresses that can be easily tracked. This is their home, they can’t leave the way migrant workers or Western expats can. People are scared that their businesses will be closed or their lives will be threatened, even that they could be killed, Hall said.

Absolutely not safe for you as this may actually help the defense in getting a fair trial.

But I tend to take heed at reports from those who have incredible respect internationally for their work in the upholding of Human rights for the Burmese, even when they are helping the defense in this case as much as they can, but if you have a different opinion of the one below then that is your choice and very predictable.

“It’s really challenging getting witnesses for them because everyone’s so scared,” Hall said. He said that Thais living on Koh Tao are especially scared to speak out, because they have names and addresses that can be easily tracked. This is their home, they can’t leave the way migrant workers or Western expats can. People are scared that their businesses will be closed or their lives will be threatened, even that they could be killed, Hall said.

It's a safe assumption that the sock puppets are still very active in trying to deflect the truth.

Absolutely not safe for you as this may actually help the defense in getting a fair trial.

But I tend to take heed at reports from those who have incredible respect internationally for their work in the upholding of Human rights for the Burmese, even when they are helping the defense in this case as much as they can, but if you have a different opinion of the one below then that is your choice and very predictable.

“It’s really challenging getting witnesses for them because everyone’s so scared,” Hall said. He said that Thais living on Koh Tao are especially scared to speak out, because they have names and addresses that can be easily tracked. This is their home, they can’t leave the way migrant workers or Western expats can. People are scared that their businesses will be closed or their lives will be threatened, even that they could be killed, Hall said.

Andy Hall is a well respected advocate for Burmese migrant workers.

"First off, the question wasn't addressed to me,"

You know you just show yourself to be incapable of understanding things with posts like this, here it goes again and I'm going to explain things slowly to you:

When you posted your question, you included a quote. Your question referred to the wording of that quote. That quote wasn't from me.

Again you're wrong, and frankly I don't care. I've moved on. The case has moved on. Your needle-stuck-on-the-LP thinking is boring, bordering on OCD. Don't worry though, the Headman's people who you're so frantic on shielding aren't ever going to be put behind bars. The RTP, hand in hand with the Headman and his riches, have made double sure of that. Rest easy, bud.

The case HAS moved on, and yes your fixation on people who are not suspects is bordering on OCD

What do you call posters replying to and debating every new post that pops up on this thread? Clinically sane?

From post #628 above: I also see it primarily as an attempt to get some of the young farang who may have witnessed things - to speak up on record. Conversely, the reason some have not spoken up on the record is they may have not witnessed things.

There are Fiji islanders who also have not witnessed things re; the crime at Ko Tao. So what's your point?

If they didn't witness anything why should they have come forward.

Are trying to make an argument out of thin air? I posted "some of the young farang who may have witnessed things - to speak up on record." How can you argue with that? Oh, I get it, I should not have written 'may have...' is that it?

There were others who were "THE prime suspects" before the ones you have fixated upon. Gen. Panya's promotion was announced beforehand, and before he left for Bangkok he personally announced the pending arrest of the suspects. (just a day before the arrests).

Everyone without an agenda to ape the cops knows "people who were THE prime suspects in the first weeks of the investigation," refers to Mon and Nomsod (lest you forget, the guy who avoided coming in for a week despite being wanted by police, and who also refused to submit for a DNA test until an orchestrated press meeting, weeks later).

Admittedly, there were brief mentions, by cops, of a couple of farang (A jealous gay lover of David's?), and Burmese migrants in general, but that lasted as long as a Thai driver waits to let pedestrians cross a busy street.

not too long now before we will hear the prosecution's evidence

not too long now before we will hear the prosecution's evidence

Not too long before the court gets the evidence. Then the evidentiary hearing on the 26th.

I am not sure what gets revealed to the public and when.

Its safe to assume there are witness's that would be of benefit to the defense, its also safe to assume they are too scared to speak out.

Actually that isn't a safe assumption at all. It is certainly safe to assume that the conspiracy theorists believe this, as do some others. The defense may be able to take advantage of this argument.

Of course both those assumptions by TC are reasonable. jdinasia is in the minority who doesn't want any witnesses to come forward, unless they would implicate the Burmese. Farang witnesses particularly, because they're not as cowed by the sorts of social imperatives that Thai witnesses would be. Thais know police wield power, as do powerful families on little islands - particularly if their most precious concerns (money and family) might be threatened. Arranging to have someone killed is not unusual in Thailand. It used to cost about Bt.5,000 and a bottle of Johnny Walker. The price is probably higher now with inflation. I made a list (I could post here, if asked) of nearly 20 young Thais who were killed by contract-killers for standing up for their individual environmental concerns. At least half of those murders were in Thailand's southern isthmus, and took place in just the first decade of the century. If a Thai VIP can easily kill someone for interfering with his business plans, he could do the same to someone who threatens his family or income. Needless to say, none of those youngsters' killers were ever even indicted. It's too easy for Thai cops to just figure, "Too bad. This is Thailand. Bad things can happen if you step over the line."

Its safe to assume there are witness's that would be of benefit to the defense, its also safe to assume they are too scared to speak out.

Actually that isn't a safe assumption at all. It is certainly safe to assume that the conspiracy theorists believe this, as do some others. The defense may be able to take advantage of this argument.

Of course both those assumptions by TC are reasonable. jdinasia is in the minority who doesn't want any witnesses to come forward, unless they would implicate the Burmese. Farang witnesses particularly, because they're not as cowed by the sorts of social imperatives that Thai witnesses would be. Thais know police wield power, as do powerful families on little islands - particularly if their most precious concerns (money and family) might be threatened. Arranging to have someone killed is not unusual in Thailand. It used to cost about Bt.5,000 and a bottle of Johnny Walker. The price is probably higher now with inflation. I made a list (I could post here, if asked) of nearly 20 young Thais who were killed by contract-killers for standing up for their individual environmental concerns. At least half of those murders were in Thailand's southern isthmus, and took place in just the first decade of the century. If a Thai VIP can easily kill someone for interfering with his business plans, he could do the same to someone who threatens his family or income. Needless to say, none of those youngsters' killers were ever even indicted. It's too easy for Thai cops to just figure, "Too bad. This is Thailand. Bad things can happen if you step over the line."

Yet again you presume to speak for me, and yet again you get it totally wrong.

BoristheBlade, on 16 Dec 2014 - 03:14, said:

The RTP have said the Burmese raped because they became aroused when they witnessed the British couple been intimate on the beach.

Insulting lies, Hanna and David were never an item, indeed all the evidence shown by the RTP ie cctv and released photo in the AC bar show quite the opposite. At no time were David and Hanna shown to be together.

The truth is David was walking near his accommodation and heard Hanna in distress, because he was a conscientious gentleman he went to her aid and was brutally murdered.

What I don't understand is why were there no bloodstains on David's t-shirt and shorts? There is nothing apparent in the photos of these items. It's very odd IMHO.

Possibly because for some reason he did not have them on when he was murdered. And maybe he was dragged into the sea to wash off any blood that was on him from the murderer.

Its safe to assume there are witness's that would be of benefit to the defense, its also safe to assume they are too scared to speak out.

Actually that isn't a safe assumption at all. It is certainly safe to assume that the conspiracy theorists believe this, as do some others. The defense may be able to take advantage of this argument.

Of course both those assumptions by TC are reasonable. jdinasia is in the minority who doesn't want any witnesses to come forward, unless they would implicate the Burmese. Farang witnesses particularly, because they're not as cowed by the sorts of social imperatives that Thai witnesses would be. Thais know police wield power, as do powerful families on little islands - particularly if their most precious concerns (money and family) might be threatened. Arranging to have someone killed is not unusual in Thailand. It used to cost about Bt.5,000 and a bottle of Johnny Walker. The price is probably higher now with inflation. I made a list (I could post here, if asked) of nearly 20 young Thais who were killed by contract-killers for standing up for their individual environmental concerns. At least half of those murders were in Thailand's southern isthmus, and took place in just the first decade of the century. If a Thai VIP can easily kill someone for interfering with his business plans, he could do the same to someone who threatens his family or income. Needless to say, none of those youngsters' killers were ever even indicted. It's too easy for Thai cops to just figure, "Too bad. This is Thailand. Bad things can happen if you step over the line."

Yet again you presume to speak for me, and yet again you get it totally wrong.

can you counter anything I stated with articulation, other than saying 'it's wrong' or 'it's a conspiracy theory' ? Didn't think so.

So there may be persons in Myanmar or UK or elsewhere who have some credible evidence that would tend to exculpate the 2 Burmese charged with these crimes who have not come forward because there were scared or intimidated or some other reason while on the KT island. Another possible reason that no such persons have come forward is that there are no such persons.

Its safe to assume there are witness's that would be of benefit to the defense, its also safe to assume they are too scared to speak out.

Actually that isn't a safe assumption at all. It is certainly safe to assume that the conspiracy theorists believe this, as do some others. The defense may be able to take advantage of this argument.

Of course both those assumptions by TC are reasonable. jdinasia is in the minority who doesn't want any witnesses to come forward, unless they would implicate the Burmese. Farang witnesses particularly, because they're not as cowed by the sorts of social imperatives that Thai witnesses would be. Thais know police wield power, as do powerful families on little islands - particularly if their most precious concerns (money and family) might be threatened. Arranging to have someone killed is not unusual in Thailand. It used to cost about Bt.5,000 and a bottle of Johnny Walker. The price is probably higher now with inflation. I made a list (I could post here, if asked) of nearly 20 young Thais who were killed by contract-killers for standing up for their individual environmental concerns. At least half of those murders were in Thailand's southern isthmus, and took place in just the first decade of the century. If a Thai VIP can easily kill someone for interfering with his business plans, he could do the same to someone who threatens his family or income. Needless to say, none of those youngsters' killers were ever even indicted. It's too easy for Thai cops to just figure, "Too bad. This is Thailand. Bad things can happen if you step over the line."

Yet again you presume to speak for me, and yet again you get it totally wrong.

can you counter anything I stated with articulation, other than saying 'it's wrong' or 'it's a conspiracy theory' ? Didn't think so.

When you presume to speak for me, no. It's wrong is always accurate and succinct.

So there may be persons in Myanmar or UK or elsewhere who have some credible evidence that would tend to exculpate the 2 Burmese charged with these crimes who have not come forward because there were scared or intimidated or some other reason while on the KT island. Another possible reason that no such persons have come forward is that there are no such persons.

We can rule out sub judice as a reason for no public statement from people in the UK, since the UK government released a statement from the families.

So there may be persons in Myanmar or UK or elsewhere who have some credible evidence that would tend to exculpate the 2 Burmese charged with these crimes who have not come forward because there were scared or intimidated or some other reason while on the KT island. Another possible reason that no such persons have come forward is that there are no such persons.

On the balance of probability, it is less likely that there are no such persons, especially among the locals. As I have stated before, the likelihood of only 4 people being at the crime scene is remote given the island's reputation for all-night partying fuelled by alcohol and accessibility of drugs. It's really a matter of reasoning what is the more likely scenario - no witnesses, or one or more.

So there may be persons in Myanmar or UK or elsewhere who have some credible evidence that would tend to exculpate the 2 Burmese charged with these crimes who have not come forward because there were scared or intimidated or some other reason while on the KT island. Another possible reason that no such persons have come forward is that there are no such persons.

On the balance of probability, it is less likely that there are no such persons, especially among the locals. As I have stated before, the likelihood of only 4 people being at the crime scene is remote given the island's reputation for all-night partying fuelled by alcohol and accessibility of drugs. It's really a matter of reasoning what is the more likely scenario - no witnesses, or one or more.

You could also say given the probability there were such witnesses at least one or more especially when now off the island would have come forward or at maybe contacted the defense anonymously with the substance of such evidence yet it seems none so have.

Here's some witnesses

So there may be persons in Myanmar or UK or elsewhere who have some credible evidence that would tend to exculpate the 2 Burmese charged with these crimes who have not come forward because there were scared or intimidated or some other reason while on the KT island. Another possible reason that no such persons have come forward is that there are no such persons.

On the balance of probability, it is less likely that there are no such persons, especially among the locals. As I have stated before, the likelihood of only 4 people being at the crime scene is remote given the island's reputation for all-night partying fuelled by alcohol and accessibility of drugs. It's really a matter of reasoning what is the more likely scenario - no witnesses, or one or more.

But the island doesn't have that reputation. Koh Tao is far more a driver's island than the party island of Koh Phangan. Divers get up and head out in the mornings to get in the water.

Here's some witnesses

Great -- they must be on the B2 defense team's witness list.

So there may be persons in Myanmar or UK or elsewhere who have some credible evidence that would tend to exculpate the 2 Burmese charged with these crimes who have not come forward because there were scared or intimidated or some other reason while on the KT island. Another possible reason that no such persons have come forward is that there are no such persons.

On the balance of probability, it is less likely that there are no such persons, especially among the locals. As I have stated before, the likelihood of only 4 people being at the crime scene is remote given the island's reputation for all-night partying fuelled by alcohol and accessibility of drugs. It's really a matter of reasoning what is the more likely scenario - no witnesses, or one or more.

But the island doesn't have that reputation. Koh Tao is far more a driver's island than the party island of Koh Phangan. Divers get up and head out in the mornings to get in the water.

Its certainly not another Phangnan but it is certainly also a party Island, this photo was from 2 nights ago

Oh? I don't see anything on that picture that says Koh Tao, or a source link. That could be anywhere.

Correction. The shirts say Koh Tao.

So with the clue you have now of "Koh Tao Bar Crawl" put that in google search

Here's some witnesses

That big guy in the photo and the girl - I think this was the couple (holding hands and looking like he might have been pulling the woman as she was a few steps back from him) in the photo the police put out at the beginning of the investigation wrongfully claiming it was Hannah and David. And the police have also stated that they had images on CCTV of a woman running but that they couldn't say whether it was a witness or Hannah herself. And also they said at the beginning of the investigation that they thought a female might have been involved in the murders. Thanks t&c for the reminder of this couple. Someone knows who they are.

So there may be persons in Myanmar or UK or elsewhere who have some credible evidence that would tend to exculpate the 2 Burmese charged with these crimes who have not come forward because there were scared or intimidated or some other reason while on the KT island. Another possible reason that no such persons have come forward is that there are no such persons.

On the balance of probability, it is less likely that there are no such persons, especially among the locals. As I have stated before, the likelihood of only 4 people being at the crime scene is remote given the island's reputation for all-night partying fuelled by alcohol and accessibility of drugs. It's really a matter of reasoning what is the more likely scenario - no witnesses, or one or more.

But the island doesn't have that reputation. Koh Tao is far more a driver's island than the party island of Koh Phangan. Divers get up and head out in the mornings to get in the water.

Its certainly not another Phangnan but it is certainly also a party Island, this photo was from 2 nights ago

Gross.