Why is it people cannot debate in a rational and cool headed manner without the childish name calling? You loose all credibility with the name calling as it shows your reacting on emotion rather than thought or logic ... not to mention it shows a very childish mentality.

Looks like Justice Denied in Asia is hijacking again.

We should have a dislike button on these threads anyone who gets to 500 takes a holiday and it's not hard to guess who would go first and second.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Clearly a call for a trial. Even with your change of emphasis it is powerful and convincing.

The other family clearly asks for an end to the speculation. They also stated that the UK police briefed them on evidence not available to the general public.

Yes, most of us live here, most of us know how the police are, most of us know how corrupt some government officials are. There is a huge credible issue with the police forces that most foreigners that never lived in Thailand simply do not know about.

I doubt the family read the 1,000 pages the prosecutor submitted. Too make any kind of definite statement.They just been briefed on the finding that had been translated.

If this guys are brave enough to face the possibility of a death penalty, then I think they deserve a fair trial. At least give them that last request.

The govt has done nothing accept allow people to cast doubt about the sincerity of wanting to give these two a fair trial. Every move by them have been to throw the defense team in to disarray and ill prepared.

IMHO even the Myanmar government is willing to post bail for these guys. That speaks volume. I guess the Myanmar govt is involved in the conspiracy as well?

This it's about justice.

We should have a dislike button on these threads anyone who gets to 500 takes a holiday and it's not hard to guess who would go first and second.

Because dissenting opinions are not acceptable to the anti-free speech group?

I don't blame the defendants for trying to wring sympathy out of people wherever they can. However, there really is nothing ASSK can do. This is just media hype.

So what do you reckon about the prosecution not showing the witness list, but the defence having to? Do you think that is fair and reasonable? Do you think that is how the law operates? If you do, I hope we never cross paths, because you are as corrupt as the day is long. Sue me.

A number of flames have been removed, everyone is entitled to a view, if you don't agree with that view there is no need for personal insults, please try and remain civil.

We should have a dislike button on these threads anyone who gets to 500 takes a holiday and it's not hard to guess who would go first and second.

Because dissenting opinions are not acceptable to the anti-free speech group?

BTW...Your avatar is an awesome use of irony. Hats off to you.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Clearly a call for a trial. Even with your change of emphasis it is powerful and convincing.

The other family clearly asks for an end to the speculation. They also stated that the UK police briefed them on evidence not available to the general public.

Appears to be powerful and convincing..............................NOT.............it is powerful and convincing..................... please do not change the wording to suit your own agenda.................unless of course you have seen the full reports?

We should have a dislike button on these threads anyone who gets to 500 takes a holiday and it's not hard to guess who would go first and second.

Because dissenting opinions are not acceptable to the anti-free speech group?

I believe you need to think before you write, you come out with some poor answer, more drivel... but keep going

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Lets not confuse their views on human rights with their view on the guilt of these suspects. Same, just because the police threatened or abused them into confessing, doesn't mean they are innocent, it just means in Thailand and most lessor developed nations accused or convicted are generally not treated to the same standard we like to see in our home countries.

Bottom line, based on the family statements, they both seem like very good hearted and rational people who clearly have more insight and info into this case than any of and their motives for wanting to see the right people convicted should be above question.

I agree with your last sentence..........they do want to see the right people convicted.........As do we all.................the question remains are the right people on trial????

EDIT added............. As do we all

Why is it people cannot debate in a rational and cool headed manner without the childish name calling? You loose all credibility with the name calling as it shows your reacting on emotion rather than thought or logic ... not to mention it shows a very childish mentality.

Because you are not debating you are often outright lying or at the very least changing what has been written into what you want it to be. And telling other posters they have a childish mentality is not going to make you any friends. Its time you got a

Letter, good idea, but better to wait until the trial starts , time to have a look at the evidences and witnesses to come forward.

IMHO, it is a fake letter forced out of them when in captivity.

You are- like most of your posts- not funny!

At all!

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Lets not confuse their views on human rights with their view on the guilt of these suspects. Same, just because the police threatened or abused them into confessing, doesn't mean they are innocent, it just means in Thailand and most lessor developed nations accused or convicted are generally not treated to the same standard we like to see in our home countries.

Bottom line, based on the family statements, they both seem like very good hearted and rational people who clearly have more insight and info into this case than any of and their motives for wanting to see the right people convicted should be above question.

I agree with your last sentence..........they do want to see the right people convicted.........As do we all.................the question remains are the right people on trial????

EDIT added............. As do we all

Read the families' statement. Both families indicate a trial is in order. They have been briefed by the UK police about the case.

Letter, good idea, but better to wait until the trial starts , time to have a look at the evidences and witnesses to come forward.

If the evidence is "powerful and convincing" it is probably best to appeal to outsiders before the trial starts.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Lets not confuse their views on human rights with their view on the guilt of these suspects. Same, just because the police threatened or abused them into confessing, doesn't mean they are innocent, it just means in Thailand and most lessor developed nations accused or convicted are generally not treated to the same standard we like to see in our home countries.

Bottom line, based on the family statements, they both seem like very good hearted and rational people who clearly have more insight and info into this case than any of and their motives for wanting to see the right people convicted should be above question.

I somewhat disagree with your first paragraph, we have to draw some synergies between them allegedly being abused and them being prosecuted as guilty, such behavior gives a lot of credence as to how far authorities may go in prosecuting individuals for alternative motives. The alleged abuse could have well forced their initial confessions, and such confessions, although later retracted, will presumably play into the hands of the prosecutor.

Welcome to Thaivisa, please be warned that due to recent increases in the level of recreational outrage in the environment, requests to limit gossip and use credible sources are bound to be met with extreme hostility.

And you AleG and JDIA and JTJ, and the other thai apologists,

that just run your diarreha mouth's should take heed in your

own word's!

Thank you for proving me right.

A FAIR trial is in order

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family
The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.
“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Lets not confuse their views on human rights with their view on the guilt of these suspects. Same, just because the police threatened or abused them into confessing, doesn't mean they are innocent, it just means in Thailand and most lessor developed nations accused or convicted are generally not treated to the same standard we like to see in our home countries.

Bottom line, based on the family statements, they both seem like very good hearted and rational people who clearly have more insight and info into this case than any of and their motives for wanting to see the right people convicted should be above question.

I agree with your last sentence..........they do want to see the right people convicted.........As do we all.................the question remains are the right people on trial????

EDIT added............. As do we all

Read the families' statement. Both families indicate a trial is in order. They have been briefed by the UK police about the case.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Lets not confuse their views on human rights with their view on the guilt of these suspects. Same, just because the police threatened or abused them into confessing, doesn't mean they are innocent, it just means in Thailand and most lessor developed nations accused or convicted are generally not treated to the same standard we like to see in our home countries.

Bottom line, based on the family statements, they both seem like very good hearted and rational people who clearly have more insight and info into this case than any of and their motives for wanting to see the right people convicted should be above question.

Sorry...I hope I have your permission to alter the font in your original post and...WHAAAAAAAAAT???

Letter, good idea, but better to wait until the trial starts , time to have a look at the evidences and witnesses to come forward.

If the evidence is "powerful and convincing" it is probably best to appeal to outsiders before the trial starts.

Deliberately misquoting again to suit your own warped agenda the quote should have been "appears powerful and convincing" leaving that one word out makes a big difference. The reason for appealing to outsiders IMO is to keep the case in the news in the hope of getting a fair trial because if the get a fair trial they will be acquitted.

meanwhile another party at the AC Bar last night and another farang beaten up there by three Thais and hospitalised off the island this morning- a first hand eye witness account!!

I thought this was about a letter being written by the two defendants, not about a fight in the AC Bar.

But pray tell, did you witness the incident, as your posts suggests? If not then it is only hearsay and your post contains misinformation. If you witnessed it, then you should elaborate more in order to highlight that what you have stated is a factual account.

Peter Walker

The Guardian, Wednesday 10 December 2014 20.30 GMT

http://www.theguardi...der-uk-tourists

“The British government opposes the death penalty in all circumstances, yet it appears that their actions in this case could be contributing to death sentences for Burmese migrants after an extremely unfair trial. The UK should adhere to their policy on the death penalty and should urge the Thai authorities to conduct a fair and open trial that does not result in the executions of potentially innocent individuals.”[/t-color]

Andy Hall, a British activist who works with Burmese migrants in Thailand and has been assisting the defence team, said the lack of access to the prosecution case made the task of compiling the defence “almost impossible”.[/t-color]

Email [/t-color] to request they make all evidence available to the defence team in order to provide fairness to the suspects.

Why is it people cannot debate in a rational and cool headed manner without the childish name calling? You loose all credibility with the name calling as it shows your reacting on emotion rather than thought or logic ... not to mention it shows a very childish mentality.

Because you are not debating you are often outright lying or at the very least changing what has been written into what you want it to be. And telling other posters they have a childish mentality is not going to make you any friends. Its time you got a

I see you cut out the relevant posts where members were displaying childish mentality by name calling.

I am not surprised.

johnthailandjohn's Post 121 posted at 12:33 is a post on it's own with no quotes so I didn't cut out any post's. Why I am not surprised that you've got that wrong. I'll make it easy for because so many of your posts are wrong. again.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

meanwhile another party at the AC Bar last night and another farang beaten up there by three Thais and hospitalised off the island this morning- a first hand eye witness account!!

Please share more details on this

I dont know the cause but three guys in AC bar took out one farang last night because something was said. The man was taken off the island by boat this morning. I heard this from someone on the island who was at the bar last night. The same source said there was also trouble there on Saturday night

Your initial post, if we accept your response here, was a total fraud and based on hearsay. Total misinformation. So you hear this from someone on the island. Please detail you source, as what you initially indicated was "A first hand eye witness account" which suggests you were the witness.

You have made some posters upset and they have written derogatory posts, and others, who have common sense, have asked you to provide more information. To do so is to their credit, not like some who show their outrage without thinking or seeing any evidence.

It may or may not have happened but at least post factually in the first instance. And now, we have the same source telling you about a second incident. Instead of stirring the pot, you should firstly, stick to the original post, not go off on a tangent, which has nothing to do with what was initially discussed. You sir are just another misinformation poster, and in doing so often enough you end up believing the garbage you post and treat it as the truth. Which, in my opinion, is most unlikely after having read your two posts here.

Post commenting on moderation removed and responses to it.

I suggest that the defence subpoena every local adult on that island to attend and give a witness statement. Give that list to the prosecutor and judge with a smile...

Posts removed and responses.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

I want to see justice for the two Brits murdered, this has been a controversial case from the start with incompetent fools doing the initial investigations...

And not giving full disclosure to the defence team, setting the date to a date that the news will be saturated by events of ten years ago sill makes me think these guys are being set up.

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.