UK pensions-life certificate

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah well in begining fine but now the way I have been treated I am very disappointed  with regards  to life forms not being received at my Thai address sent by snail mail, no contact from them which they had access to,  they just cut me off and left the ball in my court. 

 

It should be possible to do these online..... perhaps in the future.....

 

 

On one occasion they accepted a life certificate by email - pending receipt of a hard copy in the post.

 

I think you were just unlucky.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

................ and I see nothing wrong in that.

 

 

 

There are very few cases where the beneficiary has genuinely suffered through no fault of their own.

 

 

Private pension companies seek life certificates on a regular basis - I see no reason why the DWP shouldn't do the same.

I don't have a problem with that either providing that there is a reasonable time to return them by, say 3 months, and that there is an acknowledgement (by email or whatever) that they have received the returned life certificate.

 

The postal system from Thailand to the UK is fairly good but from the UK to Thailand it is abysmal as they choose the cheapest method.

[billd766]

18 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah well in begining fine but now the way I have been treated I am very disappointed  with regards  to life forms not being received at my Thai address sent by snail mail, no contact from them which they had access to,  they just cut me off and left the ball in my court. 

The same thing happened to my mate.

[CRUNCHER]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

Unusual - based on many stories I have heard about contact with the IPC. I know of 3 people who's pension payment were immediately restored.

 

I have personally found them helpful on a couple of "what if" enquiries.

 

Always polite/helpful - even if soalbundy may be right about the BS factor ????

If you know 3 people whose pensions were stopped, how many more are there that you do not know about?

 

"..immediately restored." is fine, but they should not have been stopped in the first place. GG DWP are clearly in a mess and need to get their act together. They should stop suspending payments until they can.

Edited December 30, 2018 by CRUNCHER

[Jip99]

17 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

If you know 3 people whose pensions were stopped, how many more are there that you do not know about?

 

"..immediately restored." is fine, but they should not have been stopped in the first place. GG DWP are clearly in a mess and need to get their act together. They should stop suspending payments until they can.

 

All 3 that I know were stopped for justifiable reasons......... 2 of them were using UK addresses and post did not get forwarded. With the other, the post was never received.

 

The system works - IPC write to the address on file, certification comes back within 16 weeks box gets ticked, life goes on.

 

IPC write to the address on file, certification DOESN'T come back within 16 weeks, pension gets stopped.

 

I see nothing wrong in any of that.

 

My point is that in this day and age the process can accomplished electronically.  Send the letters out by email and accept scanned copies of the life cert back.

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah well in begining fine but now the way I have been treated I am very disappointed  with regards  to life forms not being received at my Thai address sent by snail mail, no contact from them which they had access to,  they just cut me off and left the ball in my court. 

Once they realize you are still alive they don't send the money immediately, you have to wait until the next payment is due, very flexible. We must realize that as a working person you are merely a source of income for the government, as a pensioner you are a disturbance on the wrong side of the ledger, as an expat pensioner you are beneath contempt, without power.

[Kwasaki]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

The same thing happened to my mate.

They said they sent me three forms, one August, one November & another in December, I have only received the November one.

 

I feel I should send them a copy of my returned " life form " & postal receipt every week for the next year and ring them from time to time asking if they have received them.

[Kwasaki]

13 hours ago, Jip99 said:

The system works - IPC write to the address on file, certification comes back within 16 weeks box gets ticked, life goes on.

 

IPC write to the address on file, certification DOESN'T come back within 16 weeks, pension gets stopped.

 

I see nothing wrong in any of that.

OK right I didn't see anything wrong until it affected me.

 

They say they send life forms out at random by ordinary post so how do you know if you do not receive it.?

I didn't receive the August life form so they sent another in November but stopped my pension without trying to contact me.

 

After receiving the November 2nd life form they had sent I sent the life form back recorded post but that stops at Bkk airport after that how do I know they have received it,  the only way you know is they stop your pension, and you think that is a good system.

 

They had my email for contact and my telephone number which was put on the previous life form,  why didn't they use them.

 

I've sent 3 emails which they say they reply to within 10 days, I've had no reply up to now 3 weeks since the last one.

 

As said before I have no problem with my private pensions.

 

 

[JoePai]

18 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

OK right I didn't see anything wrong until it affected me.

 

They say they send life forms out at random by ordinary post so how do you know if you do not receive it.?

I didn't receive the August life form so they sent another in November but stopped my pension without trying to contact me.

 

After receiving the November 2nd life form they had sent I sent the life form back recorded post but that stops at Bkk airport after that how do I know they have received it,  the only way you know is they stop your pension, and you think that is a good system.

 

They had my email for contact and my telephone number which was put on the previous life form,  why didn't they use them.

 

I've sent 3 emails which they say they reply to within 10 days, I've had no reply up to now 3 weeks since the last one.

 

As said before I have no problem with my private pensions.

 

 

Why email - just phone them direct as I have found them to be very helpful

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, JoePai said:

Why email - just phone them direct as I have found them to be very helpful

IF you have had read previous posts you would of known I have telephoned them twice when pension was stopped, they said although they have verified my  ID ( 8 questions ) on the phone, if they don't receive a witnessed life form they will stop my pension again, yes very helpful nice people indeed. 

[OJAS]

On 12/30/2018 at 7:09 PM, billd766 said:

The postal system from Thailand to the UK is fairly good but from the UK to Thailand it is abysmal as they choose the cheapest method.

Indeed. For instance, my latest life certificate form took 17 days to arrive from the UK (via some circuitous route in Belgium or Germany if I recall the postage details on the IPC envelope correctly). Yet the witnessed version only took 8 days to arrive back with IPC. And I had sent this using Thailand Post's standard airmail service with no tracking!

 

On 12/30/2018 at 6:55 PM, Jip99 said:

It should be possible to do these online..... perhaps in the future.....

IMHO it would be nice if IPC couid at least set the ball rolling by emailing us life certificate forms for witnessing in future. Presumably data protection/security considerations would preclude these from being tailor-made with our names and NI numbers, but I'm sure that we would be more than capable of filling in these missing details ourselves!

 

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Indeed. For instance, my latest life certificate form took 17 days to arrive from the UK (via some circuitous route in Belgium or Germany if I recall the postage details on the IPC envelope correctly). Yet the witnessed version only took 8 days to arrive back with IPC. And I had sent this using Thailand Post's standard airmail service with no tracking!

 

IMHO it would be nice if IPC couid at least set the ball rolling by emailing us life certificate forms for witnessing in future. Presumably data protection/security considerations would preclude these from being tailor-made with our names and NI numbers, but I'm sure that we would be more than capable of filling in these missing details ourselves!

 

something that I suggested to them many years ago to no avail. As for post I find it strange that a letter from Germany takes 4 days to get to the post office in my market town 17 km away and from this post office to my house it takes 10 days.

[OJAS]

18 hours ago, soalbundy said:

something that I suggested to them many years ago to no avail.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that IPC consider all those over a certain age to be luddites!

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that IPC consider all those over a certain age to be Luddites! 

The way I've been treated of late I could easily understand how I could become one. 

[SantiSuk]

On 1/2/2019 at 3:14 PM, OJAS said:

Indeed. For instance, my latest life certificate form took 17 days to arrive from the UK (via some circuitous route in Belgium or Germany if I recall the postage details on the IPC envelope correctly). Yet the witnessed version only took 8 days to arrive back with IPC. And I had sent this using Thailand Post's standard airmail service with no tracking!

 

IMHO it would be nice if IPC couid at least set the ball rolling by emailing us life certificate forms for witnessing in future. Presumably data protection/security considerations would preclude these from being tailor-made with our names and NI numbers, but I'm sure that we would be more than capable of filling in these missing details ourselves!

 

I would recommend anyone sending a life certificate to use Thai Post's track & trace (non-EMS) version. It costs only about 110 baht and gives you the certainty of knowing roughly when it arrived, and a few days later you get to find out exactly when it had arrived and who signed for it in the UK. Could be useful if there is any argument about whether your certificate arrived on a timely basis or not.

 

In my experience of using this particular service many times I find that posting from a local village post office in Sisaket Isaan, which is 85km from Ubon Ratchathani airport:

 

1. The letter shows up as having been dispatched in the UK to the sendee address about 5 working days after it was posted in my particular boondock

2. You can usually rely on the date shown online as 'dispatched' being the date when it was accepted by the recipient. Occasionally it is (later) shown as received the day after

3. Confirmation online of the date when the letter was accepted and details of the recipient signing usually shows about 4-5 days after the date of receipt. Why it takes this long to record the receipt in the online track & trace system, don't ask me - my local helpful postmaster couldn't answer that one either.

4. If you can't wait for confirmation of receipt but find that it has been dispatched in the UK to the recipient, you can try phoning up Thai Post, or go to the originating post office and ask them to phone up.
 

This service is good value generally for sending to the UK (and probably other 1st world countries). I use it all the time for important communications with financial service providers and especially when certification is involved. It is way cheaper than anything track & traced that can be achieved when sending from the UK to Thailand.

 

Be careful though that you donn't end up paying for the EMS track & trace or you'll be charged something more like 1,000 baht! Ask the price before they finalise a transaction and don't accept it if it's not 110 baht ish for a regular letter post of only a few pages. [The much more expensive version is poor value IMO - gives you little more and maybe only a day faster than the cheap version]

Edited January 3, 2019 by SantiSuk

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, SantiSuk said:

Be careful though that you donn't end up paying for the EMS track & trace or you'll be charged something more like 1,000 baht!

Ask the price before they finalise a transaction and don't accept it if it's not 110 baht ish for a regular letter post of only a few pages. [The much more expensive version is poor value IMO - gives you little more and maybe only a day faster than the cheap version]

I used this type of post " I say not EMS just medium " you get a receipt cost 85 bht and totaled up to 145 bht, didn't know you could track it, I thought the track ended at Bkk airport.

[SantiSuk]

15 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I used this type of post " I say not EMS just medium " you get a receipt cost 85 bht and totaled up to 145 bht, didn't know you could track it, I thought the track ended at Bkk airport.

That's what my post office told me when I first went in to see why there had been no record of a delivery a few days after I thought it should have arrived. However they said they would phone up and find out and they were told the date by O when it was received. A day or two later the receipt showed up on line. That cycle of:

. very detailed record of what happened up until dispatch from Swampy

. always a record of when it was received in the UK

. usually (always) a contemporary record of when the document was dispatched to the customer

. wait a few days then the receipt shows up online (always so far for me)
 

The on-line record of my life cert is attached. It cost 110 baht to send

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, SantiSuk said:

wait a few days then the receipt shows up online (always so far for me)
 

The on-line record of my life cert is attached. It cost 110 baht to send

Thanks I will go post office with receipt and see if they have received it at IPC but I was waiting because Xmas & New Year hols time so bound to be some delays. 

[evadgib]

19 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I used this type of post " I say not EMS just medium " you get a receipt cost 85 bht and totaled up to 145 bht, didn't know you could track it, I thought the track ended at Bkk airport.

I assisted someone recently and sent a follow-up email to DWP including the track-and-trace details from his receipt. The email contained enough info for;

a) DWP to know it was genuine &

b  ) Confirm PoL cert was heading in their direction.

GDPR prevents them replying but the above should hopefully result in payments resuming fairly shortly.

[Kwasaki]

On 1/4/2019 at 6:35 PM, evadgib said:

I assisted someone recently and sent a follow-up email to DWP including the track-and-trace details from his receipt. The email contained enough info for;

a) DWP to know it was genuine &

b  ) Confirm PoL cert was heading in their direction.

GDPR prevents them replying but the above should hopefully result in payments resuming fairly shortly.

Thanks I have sent the Life Form by the method mentioned and have the receipt, I was not aware it could be trace up to being received.

  

I have emailed them before and got an answer in 19 days when they say 10 still whatever IPC do reply to emails.

I am up to date with payments now but will still phone them to confirm they have received my Life Form.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Kwasaki

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I am up to date with payments now but will still phone them to confirm they have received my Life Form.

Not necessary if you can trace it to their mail room. Just keep a screenshot on file.

[cleopatra2]

With the changes to Thai immigration supporting documentation a person using the income method and pension as supporting evidence will need to ensure any life certificate does not result in suspension of their pension.

 

 

A suspension of pension could have disastrous consequences on the immigration status , due to not having the full 12 monthly pension deposit into Bank or meet the average requirements when applying for extension.

[Kwasaki]

On 1/6/2019 at 3:20 PM, evadgib said:

Not necessary if you can trace it to their mail room. Just keep a screenshot on file.

I asked IPC by email to confirm back to me by email when they receive my " life form cert " back which they have done so today.

 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

With the changes to Thai immigration supporting documentation a person using the income method and pension as supporting evidence will need to ensure any life certificate does not result in suspension of their pension.

 

 

A suspension of pension could have disastrous consequences on the immigration status , due to not having the full 12 monthly pension deposit into Bank or meet the average requirements when applying for extension.

I don't think so because when you contact them they resume it, all be it being paid later.

[cleopatra2]

58 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I don't think so because when you contact them they resume it, all be it being paid later.

Maybe the case for the DWP but not for private pensions. I am aware of one persons  pension was delayed by 3 months due to failure of completion of security review/ life form. They would only re instate after reviewing the details of the completed form , this took 3 weeks from them receiving the form back .

 

The new requirements  are , money transfer every month for the previous 12 months

Edited January 8, 2019 by cleopatra2

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

Maybe the case for the DWP but not for private pensions. I am aware of one persons  pension was delayed by 3 months due to failure of completion of security review/ life form. They would only re instate after reviewing the details of the completed form , this took 3 weeks from them receiving the form back .

 

The new requirements  are , money transfer every month for the previous 12 months

With tongue in cheek I have no contact and no problem with my 2 private pensions but they will not pay money abroad only into my UK bank 

Maybe they use an option that IPC should adopt. 

My main concern still is the way IPC just send out at random proof life forms and if they do not notify you they have done that and if it is not received by you as was in my case you only know when your pension is not paid into your Thai bank .

Edited January 8, 2019 by Kwasaki

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

With tongue in cheek I have no contact and no problem with my 2 private pensions but they will not pay money abroad only into my UK bank 

Maybe they use an option that IPC should adopt. 

My main concern still is the way IPC just send out at random proof life forms and if they do not notify you they have done that and if it is not received by you as was in my case you only know when your pension is not paid into your Thai bank .

I agree with you and I believe that it should be a 2 way process. IPC can still pick people at random but they should notify them by perhaps sms or email (which they don't do at present) and be prepared to accept a scanned form in the same way that they accept a hard copy now. They should also notify the person that the form has been received (which they don't do at present).

 

[Kwasaki]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

They should also notify the person that the form has been received (which they don't do at present).

Maybe you miss my #563 .

When I sent the life form back by Thai post recorded mail ( which I call Medium post ) I emailed IPC on there contact web site asking them to emailed me when they received it, which they did. ????

[evadgib]

18 hours ago, billd766 said:

I agree with you and I believe that it should be a 2 way process. IPC can still pick people at random but they should notify them by perhaps sms or email (which they don't do at present) and be prepared to accept a scanned form in the same way that they accept a hard copy now. They should also notify the person that the form has been received (which they don't do at present).

 

Proof of Life (PoL) verification via watsapp must surely be in the pipeline for the not too distant future and IMO its high time HMG embraced technology for elections too. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by evadgib

[theoldgit]

18 hours ago, billd766 said:

I agree with you and I believe that it should be a 2 way process. IPC can still pick people at random but they should notify them by perhaps sms or email (which they don't do at present) and be prepared to accept a scanned form in the same way that they accept a hard copy now. They should also notify the person that the form has been received (which they don't do at present).

Which is what happens with my postal vote registration.

My previous local authority advise me by email that I need to renew, I have to return by mail, they acknowlege by email that they've received it and then I get a letter a week or so later confirming I'm ok for another year.

I've always found the ladies in their call centre very helpful, and I really surprised they don't do this as a matter of course.