Man faces deportation as UK wife's salary too low

[Pieter1964]

I think if they are not born in the UK, married to someone born in UK or their parents were not born in the UK then they should send them all home. I guess if that doesn't sort out the issue of every man and his dog moving to the UK from other parts of the EU, then as a last resort the UK could adopt Thailand's laws on immigration, that would certainly sort out the freeloaders. Too many people claiming rights and UK citizenship and ripping an already struggling system off, because one of their great ancestors was British… woopty f$%king doo daaa.

I think there is even a better option,

For example, if not born in london, not have parents from london, or the wife is not from london, then all people should be kicked out of london also.

But, as this is the thai visa, forum, the same counts for thailand or any city in thailand.

For me it feels very strange that all the farang here wants to be in thailand and not want any laws that makes them leave or what ever.

But when they talk about their home country, then they want all the laws so all foreign people can be kicked out at the spot.

Talking about biased minds.

Or do you all think you are some higher human being that has more value then the rest of the world.

If so, then you better get worried about the next war, because most the wars started over this issue.

Some human thinks that he is more then the other human.

But, what the heck, most of you not think that. Most of you here know that.

[super22k]

Well said DaveAustin. You are a great man.

[a99az]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Good job, well done the UK Gov. for once alt=thumbsup.gif>

Well done? And yet 200,000+ Europeans with absolutely no connection with the UK are allowed to come into the country and get benefits right off the bat; sending welfare home to kids in their home countries no less! While I understand the above is out of the UK's control -- being one of the tenets of being in the EU -- it smacks of major irony that a BRITISH SUBJECT is not allowed to keep their spouse there. This 18,600 (or 22k with kid) is simply an arbitrary figure dreamt up by that 'delightful' lady Theresa May to make it tough for British people to get their other half in. The spouse visa already stipulates 'no recourse to public funds' for crying out loud. These people are not bludgers; the wife is earning, just not enough to satisfy this figure. If I headed back and also couldn't find the right pay, it also means splitting up my family. It's a disgrace for Brits (and also that SA is a Commonwealth country) and extremely frustrating to see all the Euros piling in and bypassing the entire process.

The only way for this family to circumvent is to go and live in another EU country for a while -- with her getting a job (whatever the money) and setting up home there. They then come back into the UK and, legally, UK border control can do nothing to stop them. He will then be granted an EU right to stay as her husband (bypassing all steps and fees up to permanent leave to remain) and will get full rights as a Brit and EU citizen. This is known as the Surinder Singh method that many have resorted to using. Although the UK gov is tightening up on it, stipulating that you have to have your 'centre of life' in this other EU country before returning, they really can do nothing about it as the UK signed up to the EU and all its foibles. This above scenario is so for every other EU country.

It pains me to see the tens of thousands getting in from eastern European countries (including criminals) and something needs to be done to stop the rot and immediate recourse to public funds, but spare a thought for actual born and bred BRITISH people not being allowed to keep their spouse.

one of the best posts i've ever seen on TV alt=thumbsup.gif>

I second that. And as I have gone down the Surinder Sing route my self I can say that it's very true you don't have to pay a penny for the visa or permits and now happy in the UK with all rights for me, my wife, and children as it should be with no bull.hit. In four more years my wife will get a permanent UK residents card.

[Thai at Heart]

It is absolutely farcical because as someone pointed out up top, and EU migrant is absolutely entitled but this poor gentleman is not.

UKIP is going to hurt the main parties and they deserve to be hurt because the situation has become completely farcial and the only answer is to leave the EU and manage our own border.

We no longer have to right to decide who comes to the UK on the basis of who we would want to come here because we have granted a blanket entitlement to 300mn who are basically entitled to come and stay anytime they like.

Meanwhile, expats who have been in a position to have stupidly married a non EU citizen have their wives treated like beggars whilst any European be they rich poor able or incapable is free to stay.

By the way my wife's settlemwnt visa was granted today after her being away from rhr kids for 3 months.

I seethe every time some poor polish girl makes my coffee in costa on minimum while we have millions unemployed.

The situation is so wrong it beggars belief.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[soalbundy]

I think this is disgusting,his wife is British,his child is British,he has been living in Britain without causing problems,what about the 'Right to have a family life''. A foreign rapist wasn't allowed to be deported after he was proved guilty of his crime because he had a ''fiance''.

They could let him live there without allowing him social security,which he hasn't applied for anyway.

Edited December 13, 2014 by soalbundy

[7by7]

The article in the OP does not appear to be telling the whole story. In fact, it makes very little sense at all!

For example

But under rules introduced in 2012, British citizens who want to bring a foreign spouse to the UK must earn £18,600 a year and a further £3,800 - a total of £22,400 - if the couple have a child.

The extra income requirement for any children only applies if the children are not British citizens.

In this case the mother is British so, unless she is British by descent and the child was born outside the UK or a qualifying territory, the child is also British.

In which case the minimum income required will be £18,600 p.a. She earns over this and so appears to meet the income requirement.

The only conclusion I can make, without any evidence with which to back it up, is that the application and appeal were judged on her earnings at the time of the application in 2013, not her earnings in 2014, and that those earnings must have been below the threshold.

The article also says

They moved to the UK in January 2013 with Mr Engel on a holiday visa, living first in Yorkshire and then in Cornwall.

Visit visas cannot be converted to settlement in the UK. Mr Engel should have returned to South Africa and applied for settlement there.

It appears he overstayed his visit visa and then attempted to use the ECHR to overcome this illegal overstaying; a strategy which was bound to fail.

I do not know why the article, nor any other which I have read, has not mentioned this, nor why it only quotes the comments of the appeal judge on Mrs Engel's income. Had he nothing to say on this important aspect?

It seems that we are not being told the whole story.

Having said all that, this financial requirement has been discussed many times in they Visas to other countries forum and I am on record there as saying that the threshold is too high. I feel that the level should be the same as the Income support level for a British family of the same size. For a couple that is currently £113.70 p.w. (£5912.40 p.a.) plus housing costs. The government expect a British family to be able to live on that; why do they demand a family where one partner is not British to have a much higher income?

Indeed, in 2012 I gave evidence to the Parliamentary inquiry into new family migration rules to that effect; as did other members here. That inquiry came to the same conclusion.

Unfortunately, the government decided to ignore their recommendations.

Edit:

It is a shame that some posters have used this families plight as an excuse to have a go at EEA migrants and the EEA regulations; showing as they do so that they have very little, if any, understanding of those regulations, for example the fact that EEA migrants are not entitled to any public funds immediately they arrive, and ignoring the fact that hundreds of thousands of British people use those same regulations to live and work in other EEA countries.

Edited December 13, 2014 by 7by7

[carter1882]

Racism always seemed just beneath the surface in Great Britain but is rearing its ugly head ever more in recent years. When i was a child it was towards people of a different skin colour. These days it is ever more rampant towards Eastern Europeans. In the sixties these people were affectionately remembered as people who had stood shoulder to shoulder in Britain's time of need as soldiers and especially airmen in our greatest hours. This is now conveniently forgotten by the latest brigade of Mosleyites who blame their own laziness and prejudices by taking it out on tax paying immigrants who do jobs they turn down. It was just the same in the sixties with the black community who kept the transport going by taking lower paid but vital jobs. The fact is that Eastern Europeans contribute to the economy of the UK enormously and it is lazy British heritage people who are skimming off the benefits and using their racial prejudice as a smokescreen. The rise of an idiotic group of no hopers called UKIP is further proof of this. Of course only a handful of their candidates will prevail in next years general elections but the split vote will see a change in goverment and a need for the main parties to pander to the racists so they can maintain their power base. In many ways a rather unpleasant society of institutionalised racism and classism. It always amuses me to see it compared favourably to Thailand by the TVTBs who have rose tinted specs at best and, at worst, are inherently racist.

[soalbundy]

Racism always seemed just beneath the surface in Great Britain but is rearing its ugly head ever more in recent years. When i was a child it was towards people of a different skin colour. These days it is ever more rampant towards Eastern Europeans. In the sixties these people were affectionately remembered as people who had stood shoulder to shoulder in Britain's time of need as soldiers and especially airmen in our greatest hours. This is now conveniently forgotten by the latest brigade of Mosleyites who blame their own laziness and prejudices by taking it out on tax paying immigrants who do jobs they turn down. It was just the same in the sixties with the black community who kept the transport going by taking lower paid but vital jobs. The fact is that Eastern Europeans contribute to the economy of the UK enormously and it is lazy British heritage people who are skimming off the benefits and using their racial prejudice as a smokescreen. The rise of an idiotic group of no hopers called UKIP is further proof of this. Of course only a handful of their candidates will prevail in next years general elections but the split vote will see a change in goverment and a need for the main parties to pander to the racists so they can maintain their power base. In many ways a rather unpleasant society of institutionalised racism and classism. It always amuses me to see it compared favourably to Thailand by the TVTBs who have rose tinted specs at best and, at worst, are inherently racist.

I thought i was racist until i read this article, it's disgraceful,he has a British wife and a British child and lives there,he ought to get British citizenship by rights, what harm has he done,his wife supports him and the child and he is looking for work, has he applied for the dole? apparently not.

[7by7]

So she earns 19k through her business and needs 23k. What about his income? If they are married or living as a couple doesn't his income count in the equation? There doesn't seem to be any mention of his financial circumstances other than his being a yacht engineer.

One of the ridiculous aspects of this requirement is that the foreign spouses income, or potential income once in the UK, is not taken into account at the initial visa stage.

This mainly, but not always, hits couples where the British sponsor is the wife and the foreign applicant the husband; especially when there are children as well.

The foreign spouses income, if any, can be used to meet this requirement for the Further Leave to Remain application (30 months after moving to the UK) and the Indefinite Leave to Remain stage (30 months after FLR).

For the requirement in full, and the ways of meeting it, see Annex FM Section FM 1.7: Financial Requirement.

Edited December 13, 2014 by 7by7

[7by7]

Readers of this topic may also be interested in this one: The financial (minimum income) requirement for partner visas for UK.

Though it's probably better to confine comments on this individual case to this topic.

[Mudcrab]

I think if they are not born in the UK, married to someone born in UK or their parents were not born in the UK then they should send them all home. I guess if that doesn't sort out the issue of every man and his dog moving to the UK from other parts of the EU, then as a last resort the UK could adopt Thailand's laws on immigration, that would certainly sort out the freeloaders. Too many people claiming rights and UK citizenship and ripping an already struggling system off, because one of their great ancestors was British… woopty f$%king doo daaa.

This should also apply to all UK expats in Spain, Italy and France. Deport the lot of them. It would improve the immigration figures (Spain alone has over a million UK expats) but would probably increase the murder rate as they are such whinging moaning minnies.

It would also send Farage into apoplexy and probably make him explode (no bad thing).

But, of course, none of the rules apply if you happen to be a Russian billionaire wanting to avoid tax and not be prepared to contribute in any way to their country of residence, although happy to use all the facilities..

not be prepared to contribute in any way to their country of residence, although happy to use all the facilities..

Quite a few UK citizens seem to do it in Thailand quite happily.

[osiboy]

I think if they are not born in the UK, married to someone born in UK or their parents were not born in the UK then they should send them all home. I guess if that doesn't sort out the issue of every man and his dog moving to the UK from other parts of the EU, then as a last resort the UK could adopt Thailand's laws on immigration, that would certainly sort out the freeloaders. Too many people claiming rights and UK citizenship and ripping an already struggling system off, because one of their great ancestors was British… woopty f$%king doo daaa.

I had to jump through hoops to get my ''Thai Partner'' a UK VISITORS VISA.....

We are now here for ''Christmas and New Year'' and the amount of TV Programmes that are on , about the above subject is a nightly thing..

They do seem to be cracking down, but too late, thats for sure....

For years they have been handing out ''British Citizenship'' to any Tom Dick or Harry...

I am Britsh born and bred , had grandfathers , uncles and cousins killed in the name of politics{wars} , my Thai wife came here on a visitor last year and the only thing i regret is letting her go home , if i had known then what i know now i would have burned her passport { as illegal immigrants cant be deported without a passport} ,...... i applied for a 30 month / 3 yrs visa and was denied because i was left with £8000 to live on , this however was AFTER all bills , so according to the UKBA/GOVT , £8000 is not enough to feed 2 ppl for the year {my only outlay/expenditure} , yes folks , according to the Gov;t i need more than £670 pm to keep my 55 kilo wife and myself in food alone , she has a job caring for my elderly parents waiting for her which means i can not work full time anymore , my son also stays with me 2 weeks pm and these circumstances are keeping us apart as i cannot leave my parents to fend for themselves and my wife will not get a visitors visa as the UKBA believe my wife would work as a carer which would allow me to go back to work in construction , the system stinks and is unfair to those working on a minimum wage , they are not allowed to love a foriegner , unless they are willing to go live in a foriegn country with all its language and cultural differences not to mention that for myself i would be lucky if i would ever see my elderly sick parents ever again , but its those on a minimum wage whom i feel even more sorry for , they are not given equality by any means , my advise is to smuggle or use fake documents to get your spouse into the country , as far as immigration is concerned CRIME PAYS , on tv last week i watched an illegal immigrant get caught , asked a few questions and was then given 6 yrs leave to remain ,.... no home, no job, no money ,...... HOW FAIR IS THAT ? we in the meantime have to jump through hoops to get a spouse here thru the legal channels , i met all the criterea demanded of me , eg , earned 19.6k and have any of 7 rental properties where we could live , LETS HAVE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD , and use a bit of common , thats all i ask !,........... i believe as there is now no way to see eachother this must be in breach of my human rights but just dont know how to go about it,....................YET . So , if i were you or had my time over again i would go to koasan rd and get a fake passport ,....what have you got to loose ? , i feel atm that my marraige has little chance of surviving now and all i want is to be able to live with my wife , i dont see what sense the " no recourse to govt funds is in the legislation for , if they are not entitled to it dont pay it, simple really !

Edited December 13, 2014 by osiboy

[Mudcrab]

I'm the first to admit I know nothing about the UK rules and regulations with respect to spouses, visas, etc. but reading some of the comments here and the amounts of income required to satisfy the regulations.....it seems to me to be talking about poverty level incomes. 19,000 quid or 23,000 quid or whatever.

How can anyone expect to be welcomed when they can't meet even these most meagre incomes?

I could be wrong...often am... but can people really live on this sort of income in the UK?

[mango66]

Good job, well done the UK Gov. for once

Well done? And yet 200,000+ Europeans with absolutely no connection with the UK are allowed to come into the country and get benefits right off the bat; sending welfare home to kids in their home countries no less! While I understand the above is out of the UK's control -- being one of the tenets of being in the EU -- it smacks of major irony that a BRITISH SUBJECT is not allowed to keep their spouse there. This 18,600 (or 22k with kid) is simply an arbitrary figure dreamt up by that 'delightful' lady Theresa May to make it tough for British people to get their other half in. The spouse visa already stipulates 'no recourse to public funds' for crying out loud. These people are not bludgers; the wife is earning, just not enough to satisfy this figure. If I headed back and also couldn't find the right pay, it also means splitting up my family. It's a disgrace for Brits (and also that SA is a Commonwealth country) and extremely frustrating to see all the Euros piling in and bypassing the entire process.

The only way for this family to circumvent is to go and live in another EU country for a while -- with her getting a job (whatever the money) and setting up home there. They then come back into the UK and, legally, UK border control can do nothing to stop them. He will then be granted an EU right to stay as her husband (bypassing all steps and fees up to permanent leave to remain) and will get full rights as a Brit and EU citizen. This is known as the Surinder Singh method that many have resorted to using. Although the UK gov is tightening up on it, stipulating that you have to have your 'centre of life' in this other EU country before returning, they really can do nothing about it as the UK signed up to the EU and all its foibles. This above scenario is so for every other EU country.

It pains me to see the tens of thousands getting in from eastern European countries (including criminals) and something needs to be done to stop the rot and immediate recourse to public funds, but spare a thought for actual born and bred BRITISH people not being allowed to keep their spouse.

I pledge also all Brits shout be send back to UK !!

Brits no ONES TO GO OUT all over the globe,

but dont want accept any one tuch their territory !

Same rights for all, send them back also !!

[oldsailor35]

Good job, well done the UK Gov. for once

Well done? And yet 200,000+ Europeans with absolutely no connection with the UK are allowed to come into the country and get benefits right off the bat; sending welfare home to kids in their home countries no less! While I understand the above is out of the UK's control -- being one of the tenets of being in the EU -- it smacks of major irony that a BRITISH SUBJECT is not allowed to keep their spouse there. This 18,600 (or 22k with kid) is simply an arbitrary figure dreamt up by that 'delightful' lady Theresa May to make it tough for British people to get their other half in. The spouse visa already stipulates 'no recourse to public funds' for crying out loud. These people are not bludgers; the wife is earning, just not enough to satisfy this figure. If I headed back and also couldn't find the right pay, it also means splitting up my family. It's a disgrace for Brits (and also that SA is a Commonwealth country) and extremely frustrating to see all the Euros piling in and bypassing the entire process.

The only way for this family to circumvent is to go and live in another EU country for a while -- with her getting a job (whatever the money) and setting up home there. They then come back into the UK and, legally, UK border control can do nothing to stop them. He will then be granted an EU right to stay as her husband (bypassing all steps and fees up to permanent leave to remain) and will get full rights as a Brit and EU citizen. This is known as the Surinder Singh method that many have resorted to using. Although the UK gov is tightening up on it, stipulating that you have to have your 'centre of life' in this other EU country before returning, they really can do nothing about it as the UK signed up to the EU and all its foibles. This above scenario is so for every other EU country.

It pains me to see the tens of thousands getting in from eastern European countries (including criminals) and something needs to be done to stop the rot and immediate recourse to public funds, but spare a thought for actual born and bred BRITISH people not being allowed to keep their spouse.

Born and bred from many generations of British means nothing anymore. These Europeans appear to get whatever they want, however myself, a person who served in the British armed forces but chose to live in another country cannot even get my pension indexed. I get what it was worth back in 1973 and no more.

[casualbiker]

I'm the first to admit I know nothing about the UK rules and regulations with respect to spouses, visas, etc. but reading some of the comments here and the amounts of income required to satisfy the regulations.....it seems to me to be talking about poverty level incomes. 19,000 quid or 23,000 quid or whatever.

How can anyone expect to be welcomed when they can't meet even these most meagre incomes?

I could be wrong...often am... but can people really live on this sort of income in the UK?

What country are you from? Poverty level!! It's not a huge amount but it's hardly poverty!

[soalbundy]

I think if they are not born in the UK, married to someone born in UK or their parents were not born in the UK then they should send them all home. I guess if that doesn't sort out the issue of every man and his dog moving to the UK from other parts of the EU, then as a last resort the UK could adopt Thailand's laws on immigration, that would certainly sort out the freeloaders. Too many people claiming rights and UK citizenship and ripping an already struggling system off, because one of their great ancestors was British… woopty f$%king doo daaa.

This should also apply to all UK expats in Spain, Italy and France. Deport the lot of them. It would improve the immigration figures (Spain alone has over a million UK expats) but would probably increase the murder rate as they are such whinging moaning minnies.

It would also send Farage into apoplexy and probably make him explode (no bad thing).

But, of course, none of the rules apply if you happen to be a Russian billionaire wanting to avoid tax and not be prepared to contribute in any way to their country of residence, although happy to use all the facilities..

not be prepared to contribute in any way to their country of residence, although happy to use all the facilities..

Quite a few UK citizens seem to do it in Thailand quite happily.

What facilities can i use here in Thailand that i don't have to pay for,usually over the top.

[7by7]

Osiboy, I can't remember if you have posted about this before and if so, what advice you received.

However, one aspect strikes me as odd.

i applied for a 30 month / 3 yrs visa and was denied because i was left with £8000 to live on , this however was AFTER all bills.......

i met all the criterea demanded of me , eg , earned 19.6k.....

Firstly, I am not sure what you mean by a "30 month/3yrs visa." The initial settlement visa is valid for 33 months and after living in the UK for 30 months the person can apply to extend it for a further 30 months (FLR) after which they can apply for ILR. Wheredoes the 3 years come in?

But leaving that aside; one of the, to me, ridiculous aspects of this financial requirement is that it is based on gross income; not net.

So someone could have a gross income of £18,600 and debt repayments and other commitments of £15,000, before housing and other living costs, and meet the requirement.

Someone else with an income of £18,599 and absolutely no commitments other than their living costs, not even a mortgage or rent, would fail to meet it.

You say that your income before any outgoings was £19,600. This meets the criteria; provided it came from an acceptable source or combination of sources, see the link in my previous.

So, based purely on what you have said, I cannot see why she was refused a settlement visa.

If you want further advice on this, I suggest that you start a topic in the Visas to other countries forum and post the refusal notice in full so we can see the ECOs reasoning for this refusal.

However, if you do so, first remove all names, addresses and other identifying information; this is an open forum and you don't want your personal details available for the whole internet to see!

[casualbiker]

Latest figures from converter for £19,000

[casualbiker]

Figures for £23,000

[Mudcrab]

I think if they are not born in the UK, married to someone born in UK or their parents were not born in the UK then they should send them all home. I guess if that doesn't sort out the issue of every man and his dog moving to the UK from other parts of the EU, then as a last resort the UK could adopt Thailand's laws on immigration, that would certainly sort out the freeloaders. Too many people claiming rights and UK citizenship and ripping an already struggling system off, because one of their great ancestors was British… woopty f$%king doo daaa.

This should also apply to all UK expats in Spain, Italy and France. Deport the lot of them. It would improve the immigration figures (Spain alone has over a million UK expats) but would probably increase the murder rate as they are such whinging moaning minnies.

It would also send Farage into apoplexy and probably make him explode (no bad thing).

But, of course, none of the rules apply if you happen to be a Russian billionaire wanting to avoid tax and not be prepared to contribute in any way to their country of residence, although happy to use all the facilities..

not be prepared to contribute in any way to their country of residence, although happy to use all the facilities..

Quite a few UK citizens seem to do it in Thailand quite happily.

What facilities can i use here in Thailand that i don't have to pay for,usually over the top.

Keep your wallet in your pocket for a week. Then keep a diary of what you do hour by hour. Then you will know.

You don't walk on the roads, go to a park, beach, shopping centre etc?

I think after a week you will be surprised what you do for no contribution.

[soalbundy]

I'm the first to admit I know nothing about the UK rules and regulations with respect to spouses, visas, etc. but reading some of the comments here and the amounts of income required to satisfy the regulations.....it seems to me to be talking about poverty level incomes. 19,000 quid or 23,000 quid or whatever.

How can anyone expect to be welcomed when they can't meet even these most meagre incomes?

I could be wrong...often am... but can people really live on this sort of income in the UK?

20,000 pounds is around 30,000 Dollars, the average wage for a woman in the USA is 37,000 Dollars, not a lot of difference and considering the British woman's health care is virtually free it means in real terms she is earning more than the American lady.

[7by7]

I'm the first to admit I know nothing about the UK rules and regulations with respect to spouses, visas, etc. but reading some of the comments here and the amounts of income required to satisfy the regulations.....it seems to me to be talking about poverty level incomes. 19,000 quid or 23,000 quid or whatever.

How can anyone expect to be welcomed when they can't meet even these most meagre incomes?

I could be wrong...often am... but can people really live on this sort of income in the UK?

The government's own figures show that 43% of the population earn below £18,600 p.a.; although the average income, around £23,000, is higher. But that average takes into account everyone; from footballers earning £25,000 per week or more to cleaners on minimum wage.

The parliamentary inquiry I linked to earlier included a case of a nurse who lived an worked in Birmingham whose income was below the threshold; so she could not bring her husband to the UK. Had she lived and worked in London she would have received a London allowance, which would have just put her over the minimum figure and so she would have met the requirement. Despite the fact that the London allowance for NHS workers does not cover the higher cost of living there.

As I said previously, the government expects a British couple on Income support to live on just £5912.4 p.a, £113.70 p.w., after their housing costs.

Out of that they have to pay for everything; electricity, food, clothes, everything.

[Mudcrab]

I'm the first to admit I know nothing about the UK rules and regulations with respect to spouses, visas, etc. but reading some of the comments here and the amounts of income required to satisfy the regulations.....it seems to me to be talking about poverty level incomes. 19,000 quid or 23,000 quid or whatever.

How can anyone expect to be welcomed when they can't meet even these most meagre incomes?

I could be wrong...often am... but can people really live on this sort of income in the UK?

What country are you from? Poverty level!! It's not a huge amount but it's hardly poverty!

From Oz. As said I'm often wrong but I think I would struggle on 375 quid a week.

Especially with a young child.

Happy to be educated on the cost of living in a far off land.

Rent? Food? Running a car?

Minimum wage in Oz is 16 dollars an hour - 640 a week. Which I guess is close to the 375 quid.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Mudcrab

[soalbundy]

Mudcrab,that was just silly,by your account any foreigner anywhere in the world entering a foreign country should pay a premium before entering a country for walking on the pavements etc. Doesn't the road tax that i pay go into the upkeep of the roads,doesn't the VAT that i pay go into government coffers,not to mention the large amount of land tax that i pay for the wife's farmland,don't the school fee's i pay for my son go to the upkeep of the school,the university fees i pay for my step daughter not go towards the future of this country,doesn't the tea money and visa fees i pay not go towards the upkeep of the immigration officials,and and and and

[casualbiker]

I'm the first to admit I know nothing about the UK rules and regulations with respect to spouses, visas, etc. but reading some of the comments here and the amounts of income required to satisfy the regulations.....it seems to me to be talking about poverty level incomes. 19,000 quid or 23,000 quid or whatever.

How can anyone expect to be welcomed when they can't meet even these most meagre incomes?

I could be wrong...often am... but can people really live on this sort of income in the UK?

What country are you from? Poverty level!! It's not a huge amount but it's hardly poverty!

From Oz. As said I'm often wrong but I think I would struggle on 375 quid a week.

Especially with a young child.

Happy to be educated on the cost of living in a far off land.

Rent? Food? Running a car?

Minimum wage in Oz is 16 dollars an hour - 640 a week. Which I guess is close to the 375 quid.

" The ABS says the average individual wage in Australia in November 2013 was $57,980 before tax"

That's approx £29,000.

Note average so there must be some on less.

[Mudcrab]

I'm the first to admit I know nothing about the UK rules and regulations with respect to spouses, visas, etc. but reading some of the comments here and the amounts of income required to satisfy the regulations.....it seems to me to be talking about poverty level incomes. 19,000 quid or 23,000 quid or whatever.

How can anyone expect to be welcomed when they can't meet even these most meagre incomes?

I could be wrong...often am... but can people really live on this sort of income in the UK?

The government's own figures show that 43% of the population earn below £18,600 p.a.; although the average income, around £23,000, is higher. But that average takes into account everyone; from footballers earning £25,000 per week or more to cleaners on minimum wage.

The parliamentary inquiry I linked to earlier included a case of a nurse who lived an worked in Birmingham whose income was below the threshold; so she could not bring her husband to the UK. Had she lived and worked in London she would have received a London allowance, which would have just put her over the minimum figure and so she would have met the requirement. Despite the fact that the London allowance for NHS workers does not cover the higher cost of living there.

As I said previously, the government expects a British couple on Income support to live on just £5912.4 p.a, £113.70 p.w., after their housing costs.

Out of that they have to pay for everything; electricity, food, clothes, everything.

In Oz I think the dole is about $930 per fortnight for a married couple - $465 a week or 243 quid a week.

Don't know what other benefits there might be with respect to housing assistance etc but I know I would be struggling.

A very cheap house would cost at least $250 a week, electricity is around 28 cents a kwh....say 15p a kwh. petrol is around $1.40 a litre...probably cheaper than the UK though. A carton of beer 30 x 375 cans low alcohol $50. Bread varies, can be $3.00 a loaf. Milk is $1 a litre.

getting side tracked from the original post I admit but it is good to hear what things cost in other countries.

Too often I have heard how expensive Thailand is becoming compared to "back home".

Hasn't become too expensive yet in my experience even with the strong baht/AUD rate at present.

We had a few Yankee (and they were Yankees...not Northerners) blokes working for us a couple fo years ago ..they commented that Oz was 30% more expensive to live generally.

113.70 quid a week would be a real struggle.

[Mudcrab]

Mudcrab,that was just silly,by your account any foreigner anywhere in the world entering a foreign country should pay a premium before entering a country for walking on the pavements etc. Doesn't the road tax that i pay go into the upkeep of the roads,doesn't the VAT that i pay go into government coffers,not to mention the large amount of land tax that i pay for the wife's farmland,don't the school fee's i pay for my son go to the upkeep of the school,the university fees i pay for my step daughter not go towards the future of this country,doesn't the tea money and visa fees i pay not go towards the upkeep of the immigration officials,and and and and

Not at all.

I didn't say anything about a premium being paid to enter a country.

I understand that each and every time we use a service we pay some form of tax be it fees, VAT or whatever. We do this wherever we go.

But I think if you add up what you "use" and what you "pay" there will be a deficit in your favour.

Countries don't provide services on income tax or VAT alone.There are a multitude of taxes, fees and charges paid by someone else that allow the country to provide whatever services they provide.

If we get down to basics:

There is a hospital with 100 beds

!00 Thais are sick and require urgent treatment

A "rich" farang comes along and pays for treatment, maybe not urgent or life threatening, but he/she has the cash.

One Thai dies due to lack of treatment.

Does the pay per service "rule" still make you feel good?

[Mudcrab]

I'm the first to admit I know nothing about the UK rules and regulations with respect to spouses, visas, etc. but reading some of the comments here and the amounts of income required to satisfy the regulations.....it seems to me to be talking about poverty level incomes. 19,000 quid or 23,000 quid or whatever.

How can anyone expect to be welcomed when they can't meet even these most meagre incomes?

I could be wrong...often am... but can people really live on this sort of income in the UK?

What country are you from? Poverty level!! It's not a huge amount but it's hardly poverty!

From Oz. As said I'm often wrong but I think I would struggle on 375 quid a week.

Especially with a young child.

Happy to be educated on the cost of living in a far off land.

Rent? Food? Running a car?

Minimum wage in Oz is 16 dollars an hour - 640 a week. Which I guess is close to the 375 quid.

" The ABS says the average individual wage in Australia in November 2013 was $57,980 before tax"

That's approx £29,000.

Note average so there must be some on less.

Minimum wage in Oz is 16 dollars an hour - 640 a week. Which I guess is close to the 375 quid.

[Thai at Heart]

The article in the OP does not appear to be telling the whole story. In fact, it makes very little sense at all!

For example

But under rules introduced in 2012, British citizens who want to bring a foreign spouse to the UK must earn £18,600 a year and a further £3,800 - a total of £22,400 - if the couple have a child.

The extra income requirement for any children only applies if the children are not British citizens.

In this case the mother is British so, unless she is British by descent and the child was born outside the UK or a qualifying territory, the child is also British.

In which case the minimum income required will be £18,600 p.a. She earns over this and so appears to meet the income requirement.

The only conclusion I can make, without any evidence with which to back it up, is that the application and appeal were judged on her earnings at the time of the application in 2013, not her earnings in 2014, and that those earnings must have been below the threshold.

The article also says

They moved to the UK in January 2013 with Mr Engel on a holiday visa, living first in Yorkshire and then in Cornwall.

Visit visas cannot be converted to settlement in the UK. Mr Engel should have returned to South Africa and applied for settlement there.

It appears he overstayed his visit visa and then attempted to use the ECHR to overcome this illegal overstaying; a strategy which was bound to fail.

I do not know why the article, nor any other which I have read, has not mentioned this, nor why it only quotes the comments of the appeal judge on Mrs Engel's income. Had he nothing to say on this important aspect?

It seems that we are not being told the whole story.

Having said all that, this financial requirement has been discussed many times in they Visas to other countries forum and I am on record there as saying that the threshold is too high. I feel that the level should be the same as the Income support level for a British family of the same size. For a couple that is currently £113.70 p.w. (£5912.40 p.a.) plus housing costs. The government expect a British family to be able to live on that; why do they demand a family where one partner is not British to have a much higher income?

Indeed, in 2012 I gave evidence to the Parliamentary inquiry into new family migration rules to that effect; as did other members here. That inquiry came to the same conclusion.

Unfortunately, the government decided to ignore their recommendations.

Edit:

It is a shame that some posters have used this families plight as an excuse to have a go at EEA migrants and the EEA regulations; showing as they do so that they have very little, if any, understanding of those regulations, for example the fact that EEA migrants are not entitled to any public funds immediately they arrive, and ignoring the fact that hundreds of thousands of British people use those same regulations to live and work in other EEA countries.

The issue is the selective application of the rights of a person married to a British citizen.

A European spouse is protected under British law whereas as foreign spouse is not where the issue should be that they are a spouse irrespective of where they come from.

My missus has been separated from her British kids while we have made a now successful application. I have taken not one cent from the country but had to secure employment above the level. I exceed this by severl times.

However if I were unemployed but married to a feckless european, the law would protect my spouse. This is basically immoral and as a law exceedingly unfair and descriminiatory to British subjects.