USA Income Tax preparer in Thailand

[Royrex]

Time for the yearly question, I did a search, the lastest info was dated 2011 and earlier. I did the Embassy services search already, but very little info there. I've sent an email to the guy in chang mai as that info was for 2011. last year I tried several programs offered by IRS.GOV but all ended with having to make a payment to software maker ( some kicked me out as soon as I did expat status)

Thanks for any help you can give

[lopburi3]

TaxAct is free for basic on-line report/file and only costs about $13 for advanced storage/entry of previous data and has been fine for me for almost 20 years now. I started paying in about the 3rd year as felt the software was worth the small amount asked. I am not a business owner so simple but believe others who are more complex have not had issues.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

The U.S. Embassy lists two tax preparers, without endorsement.

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/taxinfo1.pdf

Mac

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The U.S. Embassy lists two tax preparers, without endorsement.

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/taxinfo1.pdf

Mac

The principal of the second preparer listed there is TVF member Lanny:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/user/461-lanny/

He was previously active here in posting on tax and other issues, but doesn't appear to have posted recently.

In the U.S., I always paid a tax preparer to do my returns because a) I felt I didn't have the knowledge or expertise to do them myself and b] there were plenty of available preparers to use.

Here, for Americans, there's pretty much a very short list of tax preparers. And over the years, the online and software-based tax preparation tools have improved dramatically.

These days, I use TurboTax Online and pay a total of about $50 per year for one of their advanced versions because I have brokerage holdings, etc etc. vs paying 10,000 baht or 15,000 baht or more for a preparer.

One of the very nice features about TurboTax (and a few other services) is the ability to automatically import all your financial data from a wide variety of brokerages and other financial institutions. That makes getting all the data in the right places vastly easier. And if I ever get stuck, TurboTax actually has a live phone support component in addition to their informational forums, which are quite helpful/useful as well.

Everyone has their own individual tax situation, some simpler, some more complicated. So there's no one size fits all answer.

[Royrex]

i e-mailed lanny, he replied he's retried now. I think that embassy list is very outdated, Also not received a answer from the guy in Chang mai, who has UStaxpayer.com (or something like that), I also find taxact didn't know about a W7 form, a non-us person (spouse) getting a tien number to be declared a depentant on taxes

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

i e-mailed lanny, he replied he's retried now. I think that embassy list is very outdated, Also not received a answer from the guy in Chang mai, who has UStaxpayer.com (or something like that), I also find taxact didn't know about a W7 form, a non-us person (spouse) getting a tien number to be declared a depentant on taxes

I'm certainly not a tax preparer, but I did read this on the IRS website:

to claim someone as a dependent, that person must be a U.S. citizen, U.S. resident alien, U.S. national or resident of Canada or Mexico for some part of the year.

Your spouse is never considered your dependent. On a joint return, you may claim one exemption for yourself and one for your spouse. If you’re filing a separate return, you may claim the exemption for your spouse only if they had no gross income, are not filing a joint return, and were not the dependent of another taxpayer.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Six-Important-Facts-about-Dependents-and-Exemptions-1

[lopburi3]

Believe your mean ITIN (individual taxpayer identification number) which is needed to file joint returns with spouse that does not have a social security number. This is independent of the tax man and used to be done separately but it is now down at the same time as filing tax return. You might have to file such first return by mail to process the extra form - as my wife obtain ITIN (believe it was simply called TIN at the time) many years ago can not provide current information. But tax returns are not really that much of an issue - when you had to manually do the math down to cents many moons ago (before pocket calculators) might understand the desire to put of onus on someone else - but today it should not take more than a few minutes once you get the information together.

Am sure a few minutes with Google would provide full ITIN information.

[CaptHaddock]

I can understand if the OP does not want to do his own taxes with TurboTax, but why would it be necessary to see the accountant face-to-face? There must be thousands of US accountants doing business over the internet to whom he could send his documents and then have whatever discussions are necessary via Skype. That way, he can look for an accountant in a relatively low cost-of-living area of the US and expect a somewhat lower fee for the tax preparation than from a big city preparer.

[Royrex]

thanks for the responses, dependent is the wrong word, as lopburi3 said, itin is what i need to do for new wife here in Thailand, The capt gave an idea i never thought of, sounds so simple, something i will look into. maybe that tax guy who does them for all those illegal immagrants

[NancyL]

It would be a good idea to do the research and get an ITIN for your new Thai wife now. I spent 10 minutes with Google and have a pretty good understanding of how to do it. Something about completing a W-7 form and reading the instructions about where to send it and with what substantiating documents. If you were able to figure out the documents needed to get a Thai visa or get married in Thailand, then you should be able to figure out how to get an ITIN for your wife.

Aside from the obvious benefit of having the ITIN for her now in filing your joint income tax return, it will be helpful for her after your passing if she able to claim widow's benefits from a U.S. gov't agency. They'll want to know her ITIN number and it will just delay her getting the benefits if she has to secure an ITIN after your passing.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re Nancy's comment here above, I think I asked this question before elsewhere here...and never got an answer.

If you're filing a joint U.S. tax return for a Thai wife who's working in Thailand, how do you report/document her Thai income on your U.S. tax return? She doesn't get an W2 or anything like that, just a monthly salary statement. What exact info would you be giving the IRS on her (or him for a Thai husband), and how would you be reporting it?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

thanks for the responses, dependent is the wrong word, as lopburi3 said, itin is what i need to do for new wife here in Thailand, The capt gave an idea i never thought of, sounds so simple, something i will look into. maybe that tax guy who does them for all those illegal immagrants

I think that remote approach is do-able...but I decided to end up doing the returns myself via TurboTax instead after a few years of indecision.

When I left the USA a fair number of years back, I was at that time paying my U.S. tax preparer guy, who was a true professional, close to $400 a year for my state and federal returns, including documentation for a house mortgage, and a few other complications. But nothing extraordinary. And I'm sure, the prices haven't gone down since then.

If someone does go the remote approach, though, better make sure that preparer is aware of various of the tax issues that do operate differently for expats, such as--

--the exemption from ObamaCare as long as you're out of the country for at least 11 months of the year.

--treatment of foreign-earned income.

--knowledge of your former state's state tax policies regarding (non-resident) expats.

--FATCA and FBAR compliance

--and, the different federal filing status choices, and the varying tax implications of those, for expats with working foreign (non-US citizen/greencard) spouses.--

[lopburi3]

1. Believe ITIN is now normally only issued during the tax return process so poster is right that they include form with tax payments. In the old days you could obtain independently. Suspect a statement of accepting US tax on foreign spouse is also still required.

2. Am not sure an ITIN would be required for payment of US Government survivor pension (which is totally tax free and done by check to those living overseas). Do not know if Social Security would be the same however. Forms are provided by OPM to exempt tax withholding provisions (W-8BEN) on government pensions to foreign nationals. My quick read would make this a tax treaty benefit and that local tax ID number could be used (at least on this form) - but I could be wrong.

3. Overseas income/interest/pensions do not require W2/1099 and such - just list information that you have for payer as if from them. Obviously no tax ID numbers. Have been doing this way for years using TaxAct. We do not have foreign income other than a small Thai old age payment so not concerned with foreign earned income provisions - all is reported as if US and tax paid on it. If Thai spouse has good income it would probably be best to not file joint returns as US would have no tax claim on there income unless dual national.

[NancyL]

1. Believe ITIN is now normally only issued during the tax return process so poster is right that they include form with tax payments. In the old days you could obtain independently. Suspect a statement of accepting US tax on foreign spouse is also still required.

2. Am not sure an ITIN would be required for payment of US Government survivor pension (which is totally tax free and done by check to those living overseas). Do not know if Social Security would be the same however. Forms are provided by OPM to exempt tax withholding provisions (W-8BEN) on government pensions to foreign nationals. My quick read would make this a tax treaty benefit and that local tax ID number could be used (at least on this form) - but I could be wrong.

3. Overseas income/interest/pensions do not require W2/1099 and such - just list information that you have for payer as if from them. Obviously no tax ID numbers. Have been doing this way for years using TaxAct. We do not have foreign income other than a small Thai old age payment so not concerned with foreign earned income provisions - all is reported as if US and tax paid on it. If Thai spouse has good income it would probably be best to not file joint returns as US would have no tax claim on there income unless dual national.

With regard to No. 2, I've assisted Thai widows who were eligible to receive VA widow's benefits. Their husbands had been receiving their Social Security payments thru a Bangkok Bank direct deposit account and it just made sense for the widow to also receive the VA monthly widows pension the same way. The widow needs to have an ITIN to set up her own direct deposit Bangkok Bank account for a U.S. gov't benefit payment. I suppose a check could be sent thru the mail, but then there is the hassle of getting it cashed each month. Wouldn't direct deposit just be easier? Especially since the widows I've worked with are already in the habit of working with Bangkok Bank direct deposit accounts in managing their husband's income when he was alive?

[lopburi3]

Agree direct deposit would seem the best choice (especially for Thailand with fee involved in check cashing) - do not know if it can be done by OPM or not as there general response is all foreign payments are made by check. But perhaps the no access Bangkok Bank account would be accepted as uses a US routing number. But OPM is extremely unresponsive to any requests for information and say they will only respond and provide information/forms to survivors after death of principle - so makes it extremely hard to make plans.

[lopburi3]

After reading more do not see any reason the Bangkok Bank option could not be used if they are willing to set up for a Thai national. The SF2800 form just needs the routing/account information and address of the bank in US so should work. At present we have a joint account in US that could still be used but then transfers of money would be needed and expect that would be harder than bank visits here. Had not been aware opening such accounts was also available to Thai. Thanks.

[Royrex]

I just got an e-mail from USTaxpayer.com ( the guys in chang mai) says he'll be opening up in Feb.

[bangmai]

I read one of the attorney's on the US Embassy's list is a complete fraudster and got people to sign over their condo deeds for payment. TaxAct is great, covers foreign earnings, dividends, accounts...has the import feature.....in most cases cost basis is determined for you. CPA firms use very similar programs, with different licensing, many tax-preparers will simply ask you the questions as they enter the data in the application, just like the airlines do, for those unable to use their own websites. I see this thread about every year, and generally it seems to be a self promotion of someone, who is not a real CPA, doing tax work in Thailand. A certified preparer, and CPA are entirely different matters. Also, TT offers audit insurance, where they will go with you to an audit if required for about 50 bucks extra.

[JimGant]

If you're filing a joint U.S. tax return for a Thai wife who's working in Thailand, how do you report/document her Thai income on your U.S. tax return? She doesn't get an W2 or anything like that, just a monthly salary statement. What exact info would you be giving the IRS on her (or him for a Thai husband), and how would you be reporting it?

TurboTax is pretty good walking you thru this. Just go to "wages and income," then "less common income" section, then the "Foreign Earned Income and Exclusion" section. There you'll report her wages, and check the box that says it wasn't reported by a W2, but by a "statement from your foreign employer" (i.e., pay stubs, whatever). Then, indicate neither of you is applying for the FEI exclusion. That's it. It will now plug into Form 1040, line 7 (wages) -- and in the worksheet section, shown as a non-W2 reported foreign wage.

If she paid Thai taxes on this income, then go to the "deductions and credits" section, then "Foreign Taxes," then walk your way thru the Form 1116 to get a credit for these Thai taxes.

The question remains, however -- can this now be efiled by TurboTax? Normally, if you're supposed to get a W2 -- and you don't -- then you file a Form 4852. But, TT won't allow efiling if it includes a Form 4852.

But, TT knows you're not going to get a W2 -- since these are foreign wages. So, it won't ask to generate a Form 4852 (I would think,anyway). But will it then allow efiling? Dunno. However, the IRS won't reject efiling if the amount reported on Line 7 is more than what is reported in the W2(s). So, yeah, maybe TT *will* accommodate foreign wages for efiling.......

If you do have to paper file, however -- on the dotted section of Line 7, write "foreign wages -no W-2" Don't, again, attach a Form 4852 -- as it doesn't apply to foreign wages not subject to W2 reporting.