Government wants lese majeste offenders to be sent home to face justice

[GinBoy2]

LM in Thailand has unfortunately evolved to be the political 'gag of choice' by all and sundry. It appears it's possible to spin almost any comment into something that can warrant a charge of LM. Since the burden of proof to validate any such claim it's almost nothing, very effective tool to silence critics of whoever is the ruling 'clique du jour'

Edited December 17, 2014 by GinBoy2

[tbthailand]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

Prayut promises fair trial for people who break security laws

The Nation

Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha holds a press conference after the meeting between the National Council for Peace and Order and the Cabinet at Government House yesterday.

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha, who also oversees the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), has instructed relevant security agencies to use appropriate channels to prosecute people who violate the security law, junta spokesman Colonel Winthai Suvari said yesterday.

Winthai said that after a meeting between the Cabinet and the NCPO, Prayut said violators of security laws, living both in Thailand and overseas, would be given a fair chance to prove their innocence and fight through the judicial process.

The prime minister acknowledged also that not many people understand the situation and that an appropriate channel is necessary to ensure there are no negative feelings, especially among university students.

Prayut has instructed state agencies engaged in procurement and construction projects to ensure there is no bribery and corruption so the public can have trust in the government's work.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Prayut-promises-fair-trial-for-people-who-break-se-30250020.html

-- The Nation 2014-12-17

I notice he was wearing some very neutral colours for the announcement

the 'government' has been encouraging everyone to wear yellow this month.

uber-patriotism.

[Morakot]

threat to Thai national security.

Seems like some people think words are a big threat.

[NCFC]

Turkeys, please come home, it's Christmas!!

[thailiketoo]

threat to Thai national security.

Seems like some people think words are a big threat.

Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel.

[Digitalnomade]

do Thailand has heard about the first amendment in most countries?

[humqdpf]

I can only assume that these comments were designed to satisfy a domestic audience, because the outside world would laugh its conkers off before extraditing anyone

And foreign media outlets are taking notice - this story appeared on BBC Radio 4 (UK station) this morning.

[Zooheekock]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The LM has nothing to do with the King,

That doesn't make sense. Something called lese majeste necessarily has everything to do with the King. And if he had really wanted to change the law, it would not have been difficult to state his desires clearly and unambiguously.

No, it makes sense, it has nothing to do with his person but with the institution itself, rather like saying, you can't complain about the prime minister, that would endanger democracy, it's just as stupid.

Nonsense read below.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/769792-notice-to-members-posting-in-thailand-news/

I cant see the reason for calling my post nonsense. If you insult the king or any member of the royal family,or any royal family in the world it is LM because you have insulted the institution itself. moderate your response, i don't agree would have sufficed.

So are you saying if we aussies expressed our opinion ions about our queen we can be arrested under thai law? If a thai wanted to say something about our queen we wouldn't care less either would she. Maybe we are a little less sensitive and don't cry as easily as thais. They need to grow a pair, harden up and catch up with the real world. Over sensitive little petals.

Yes, you can be arrested under Thai law:

The third group is insult against the Head of State of foreign countries or lèse-majesté. Insulting or threatening the King, Queen, Consort, Heir-apparent or Head of State of foreign countries (Section 133), which is an offence against the friendly relations with foreign states, is punishable by 1 to 7 years imprisonment or a fine of 2,000-140,000 baht, or both. The penalty for defaming, insulting or threatening the Thai Monarch, the Queen, Heir-apparent or Regent (Section 112) is imprisonment for a 3 of three to 15 years. Insulting or defaming a representative of a foreign state accredited to the Royal Court has the penalty of imprisonment for a term of 6 months to 15 years or a fine of 1,000-10,000 baht, or both.

Scary isn't it?

well there is probably about 2 million people in Aust who have snagged off at the queen of England, her corgis and big ears noddy. Better send the BIB over with warrants and extradition them.

I had thought that 133 didn't count as LM since it includes non-royals but Wikipedia says that LM includes insults, defamation, etc directed against the state, not just the state as embodied in the crown so I guess it does count after all (as would, presumably, 'crimes' against flags, the national anthem, etc.) I'm not sure that anyone has ever been charged under it, though. I had a quick look and couldn't find any, though that doesn't mean a great deal.

[Zooheekock]

Speaking of rose what ever happened those Thais terrorizing her in the UK? The weird melted plastic looking high so girl and 'DJ Ken' (the guy that flashed a gun on camera while threatening her, and then went to spray paint a Thai flag on her house, turned out it was the wrong house, idiot)

I know he got arrested for that but did Rose press charges? Couple of absolute morons, the rest of the world aren't fanatical idiots like you and forcing your views on people.

Not sure what happened to the woman but that little maggot Ken got 200 hours of community service and a suspended sentence.

---

Now I think about it, did the woman do anything or did she just drive around looking for Rose without success? I seem to remember that nothing came of her attempted assault but I can't be sure about that.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Zooheekock

[ggold]

You can't have democracy unless you have freedom of speech, even if you don't like what is said. To expect other countries to go against that principal shows there will never be democracy in Thailand.

[baboon]

Speaking of rose what ever happened those Thais terrorizing her in the UK? The weird melted plastic looking high so girl and 'DJ Ken' (the guy that flashed a gun on camera while threatening her, and then went to spray paint a Thai flag on her house, turned out it was the wrong house, idiot)

I know he got arrested for that but did Rose press charges? Couple of absolute morons, the rest of the world aren't fanatical idiots like you and forcing your views on people.

Not sure what happened to the woman but that little <deleted> Ken got 200 hours of community service and a suspended sentence.

He did? Three hearty cheers for that. Hope he is cleaning grafitti...

[tbthailand]

You can't have democracy unless you have freedom of speech, even if you don't like what is said. To expect other countries to go against that principal shows there will never be democracy in Thailand.

exactly

which is why the first real reform is to eliminate LM and the associated computer crimes act.

The second real reform is to curb the military.

After that, it's green field....

[ggold]

The LM has nothing to do with the King,

That doesn't make sense. Something called lese majeste necessarily has everything to do with the King. And if he had really wanted to change the law, it would not have been difficult to state his desires clearly and unambiguously.

My understanding is that the King is against this law being used in the way it is. The politicians use this as a way to get at opponents to keep them quite. IMO invoking this law is doing exactly what the law prohibits!

[DennisF]

The LM has nothing to do with the King,

That doesn't make sense. Something called lese majeste necessarily has everything to do with the King. And if he had really wanted to change the law, it would not have been difficult to state his desires clearly and unambiguously.

My understanding is that the King is against this law being used in the way it is. The politicians use this as a way to get at opponents to keep them quite. IMO invoking this law is doing exactly what the law prohibits!

WOW! He told you that?

[Zooheekock]

My understanding is that the King is against this law being used in the way it is

That's not what he said. In 2005, he said that he could be criticized, not that he was was against the law. It's worth remembering that shortly after this speech, the number of people charged with LM increased enormously.

The politicians use this as a way to get at opponents to keep them quite.

It would be more accurate to say that it's used by the elite to silence those who pose (or may in the future pose) a threat to the status quo.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Zooheekock

[Enoon]

The LM has nothing to do with the King,

That doesn't make sense. Something called lese majeste necessarily has everything to do with the King. And if he had really wanted to change the law, it would not have been difficult to state his desires clearly and unambiguously.

My understanding is that the King is against this law being used in the way it is. The politicians use this as a way to get at opponents to keep them quite. IMO invoking this law is doing exactly what the law prohibits!

WOW! He told you that?

No, HM said it in a statement he made in 2005.

[Beetlejuice]

countries which support free speech don't have draconian LM laws.

The LM law is one of the most egregious violations of human rights in Thailand.

I have my own opinions regarding the human rights laws, that are human rights for whom?

In Britain for example where foreign criminals, rapists and murderers cannot be deported because it may contravene their so-called human rights, where the human rights laws can actually work against the benefits of the country and benefit more the perpetrators than the victims.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and the subversives that create politically motivated propaganda in order to disrupt and cause unrest to the stability of another country or their own countries that are in no doubt enemies of the state.

Thailand, although cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense, is still a stable country with a relatively amount of freedom and does not need extremists and activists stirring up tensions against the system here that can be extremely damaging to Thailand as a whole.

I can see the prime minister`s point exactly.

[lildragon]

Speaking of rose what ever happened those Thais terrorizing her in the UK? The weird melted plastic looking high so girl and 'DJ Ken' (the guy that flashed a gun on camera while threatening her, and then went to spray paint a Thai flag on her house, turned out it was the wrong house, idiot)

I know he got arrested for that but did Rose press charges? Couple of absolute morons, the rest of the world aren't fanatical idiots like you and forcing your views on people.

Not sure what happened to the woman but that little <deleted> Ken got 200 hours of community service and a suspended sentence.

He did? Three hearty cheers for that. Hope he is cleaning grafitti...

He is lucky he only got community service and a suspended sentence. Flashing a gun like that (I assume it was just an air gun) and making threats on video is a serious offence in The UK. I bet he thought he would just get away with it like he would of done in Thailand. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and see the UK coppers faces as they had this raving high so idiot screaming that some woman broke an archaic law in a country thousands of miles away

He should of at least got deported. Lord knows we would of faced that or worse (if we didn't have the cash to bribe, of course) if we pulled a similar stunt here.

[thailiketoo]

Thailand, although cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense

Hope you don't mind the edit I only have a small question. In what sense can Thailand be described as a democratic country. I think I must have absent that day in school.

[lildragon]

countries which support free speech don't have draconian LM laws.

The LM law is one of the most egregious violations of human rights in Thailand.

I have my own opinions regarding the human rights laws, that are human rights for whom?

In Britain for example where foreign criminals, rapists and murderers cannot be deported because it may contravene their so-called human rights, where the human rights laws can actually work against the benefits of the country and benefit more the perpetrators than the victims.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and the subversives that create politically motivated propaganda in order to disrupt and cause unrest to the stability of another country or their own countries that are in no doubt enemies of the state.

Thailand, although cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense, is still a stable country with a relatively amount of freedom and does not need extremists and activists stirring up tensions against the system here that can be extremely damaging to Thailand as a whole.

I can see the prime minister`s point exactly.

So countries that have freedom of speech should deport Thai ex-pats to face court martial where they have little to know rights at all for simply expressing an opinion? You condone this?

[Enoon]

countries which support free speech don't have draconian LM laws.

The LM law is one of the most egregious violations of human rights in Thailand.

I have my own opinions regarding the human rights laws, that are human rights for whom?

In Britain for example where foreign criminals, rapists and murderers cannot be deported because it may contravene their so-called human rights, where the human rights laws can actually work against the benefits of the country and benefit more the perpetrators than the victims.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and the subversives that create politically motivated propaganda in order to disrupt and cause unrest to the stability of another country or their own countries that are in no doubt enemies of the state.

Thailand, although cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense, is still a stable country with a relatively amount of freedom and does not need extremists and activists stirring up tensions against the system here that can be extremely damaging to Thailand as a whole.

I can see the prime minister`s point exactly.

I think that what you refer to as "freedom" in Thailand may be more aptly described as Libertarianism:

"Libertarianism has always been committed to the restriction of liberty for certain groups in order to augment the freedom (manifested in and through wealth, power and status) of privileged sections of society"

This is not a "textbook" definition.

[Zooheekock]

the human rights laws can actually work against the benefits of the country

There's a clue in the name, you know; they are human rights, not country rights.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and the subversives that create politically motivated propaganda in order to disrupt and cause unrest to the stability of another country or their own countries that are in no doubt enemies of the state.

In respect of this thread, total and utter crap. I'm willing to bet you have no idea who the Thais are who have left the country and less knowledge about what they said or why.

[JOC]

countries which support free speech don't have draconian LM laws.

The LM law is one of the most egregious violations of human rights in Thailand.

I have my own opinions regarding the human rights laws, that are human rights for whom?

In Britain for example where foreign criminals, rapists and murderers cannot be deported because it may contravene their so-called human rights, where the human rights laws can actually work against the benefits of the country and benefit more the perpetrators than the victims.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and the subversives that create politically motivated propaganda in order to disrupt and cause unrest to the stability of another country or their own countries that are in no doubt enemies of the state.

Thailand, although cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense, is still a stable country with a relatively amount of freedom and does not need extremists and activists stirring up tensions against the system here that can be extremely damaging to Thailand as a whole.

I can see the prime minister`s point exactly.

For crying out loud!!

We are not talking about political extremists or terrorists, but about the simple right to express your opinion, all within the framework of common sense of course!!

A little like poster Beetlejuice expressing his opinions on Thaivisa. Often I don't agree with you, but I read your posts, think about it and reply..........

Also known as freedom of speech

The countries (mainly European) with the best human rights records are often the best working societies with relative political stability and a content population.

Maybe something for Thailand to copy, if their leaders really want to bring happiness to the people!!

[ggold]

countries which support free speech don't have draconian LM laws.

The LM law is one of the most egregious violations of human rights in Thailand.

I have my own opinions regarding the human rights laws, that are human rights for whom?

In Britain for example where foreign criminals, rapists and murderers cannot be deported because it may contravene their so-called human rights, where the human rights laws can actually work against the benefits of the country and benefit more the perpetrators than the victims.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and the subversives that create politically motivated propaganda in order to disrupt and cause unrest to the stability of another country or their own countries that are in no doubt enemies of the state.

Thailand, although cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense, is still a stable country with a relatively amount of freedom and does not need extremists and activists stirring up tensions against the system here that can be extremely damaging to Thailand as a whole.

I can see the prime minister`s point exactly.

"does not need extremists and activists stirring up tensions against the system"

Yet it is the system that is faulty! The real problem is politicians think they can lord it over the populace, they have no real interest in progress unless it fits into their pockets. There is a reason why the government controls the purchase of rice and rubber etc. It has nothing to do with a fair deal for farmers!

Edited December 17, 2014 by ggold

[Beetlejuice]

countries which support free speech don't have draconian LM laws.

The LM law is one of the most egregious violations of human rights in Thailand.

I have my own opinions regarding the human rights laws, that are human rights for whom?

In Britain for example where foreign criminals, rapists and murderers cannot be deported because it may contravene their so-called human rights, where the human rights laws can actually work against the benefits of the country and benefit more the perpetrators than the victims.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and the subversives that create politically motivated propaganda in order to disrupt and cause unrest to the stability of another country or their own countries that are in no doubt enemies of the state.

Thailand, although cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense, is still a stable country with a relatively amount of freedom and does not need extremists and activists stirring up tensions against the system here that can be extremely damaging to Thailand as a whole.

I can see the prime minister`s point exactly.

So countries that have freedom of speech should deport Thai ex-pats to face court martial where they have little to know rights at all for simply expressing an opinion? You condone this?

The prime minister is explicitly meaning those that are the most extremist, could be classified as the enemies of Thailand.

I live in Thailand and my wife is Thai and my 3 children are all well integrated into Thai society, they are true patriotic Thai citizens. Therefore, considering that I am happy to live here and intend to remain and doing alright thank you with no ambitions to move anywhere else, I except the country for what it is and it`s values for the better and for the worse. If I were not able to do this and believed there is more freedoms elsewhere and the grass is greener over there rather than over here, than I would not stay.

For those that continue to stay in Thailand by their own choice either accept the laws and rulings of the powers that be and if they don`t and believe that justice, rights and democracy are better elsewhere are then hypocrites for continuing to stay here and not opting to move back home where their views will be acceptable and lifestyles more suited to them.

[baboon]

^^

Wow. Sounds like you have well and truly sold your soul...

[thailiketoo]

The prime minister is explicitly meaning those that are the most extremist, could be classified as the enemies of Thailand.

I live in Thailand and my wife is Thai and my 3 children are all well integrated into Thai society, they are true patriotic Thai citizens. Therefore, considering that I am happy to live here and intend to remain and doing alright thank you with no ambitions to move anywhere else, I except the country for what it is and it`s values for the better and for the worse. If I were not able to do this and believed there is more freedoms elsewhere and the grass is greener over there rather than over here, than I would not stay.

For those that continue to stay in Thailand by their own choice either accept the laws and rulings of the powers that be and if they don`t and believe that justice, rights and democracy are better elsewhere are then hypocrites for continuing to stay here and not opting to move back home where their views will be acceptable and lifestyles more suited to them.

Since I've been born Thailand has had 17 different constitutions. How does the average Thai keep track of what is legal or not legal?

[JOC]

The prime minister is explicitly meaning those that are the most extremist, could be classified as the enemies of Thailand.

I live in Thailand and my wife is Thai and my 3 children are all well integrated into Thai society, they are true patriotic Thai citizens. Therefore, considering that I am happy to live here and intend to remain and doing alright thank you with no ambitions to move anywhere else, I except the country for what it is and it`s values for the better and for the worse. If I were not able to do this and believed there is more freedoms elsewhere and the grass is greener over there rather than over here, than I would not stay.

For those that continue to stay in Thailand by their own choice either accept the laws and rulings of the powers that be and if they don`t and believe that justice, rights and democracy are better elsewhere are then hypocrites for continuing to stay here and not opting to move back home where their views will be acceptable and lifestyles more suited to them.

So the Thais living abroad should come home and face the music, if they have committed LM??

And expats living here, if not agreeing with everything should go home??

That is not integration, but submission!!

[Beetlejuice]

Thailand, although cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense

Hope you don't mind the edit I only have a small question. In what sense can Thailand be described as a democratic country. I think I must have absent that day in school.

As I have said; Thailand cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense, but it is also not an extremist state, we have to show certain respects and tow the line on some issues that in my opinion is a good thing and citizens do have reasonable amounts of freedoms here. At the moment Thailand is still at a political crossroads that will be ironed out in due course.

All these factors regarding Thai culture, Thai law, Thai attitudes should be taken into account by those considering moving or working in Thailand for the long term because no one is imposing that those who do not give the present Thai laws and government any credibility to come here, if they prefer and consider the systems better in their own countries. Otherwise in what other ways would you like me to explain this?

[Zooheekock]

countries which support free speech don't have draconian LM laws.

The LM law is one of the most egregious violations of human rights in Thailand.

I have my own opinions regarding the human rights laws, that are human rights for whom?

In Britain for example where foreign criminals, rapists and murderers cannot be deported because it may contravene their so-called human rights, where the human rights laws can actually work against the benefits of the country and benefit more the perpetrators than the victims.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and the subversives that create politically motivated propaganda in order to disrupt and cause unrest to the stability of another country or their own countries that are in no doubt enemies of the state.

Thailand, although cannot be described as a democratic country in the true sense, is still a stable country with a relatively amount of freedom and does not need extremists and activists stirring up tensions against the system here that can be extremely damaging to Thailand as a whole.

I can see the prime minister`s point exactly.

So countries that have freedom of speech should deport Thai ex-pats to face court martial where they have little to know rights at all for simply expressing an opinion? You condone this?

The prime minister is explicitly meaning those that are the most extremist, could be classified as the enemies of Thailand.

I live in Thailand and my wife is Thai and my 3 children are all well integrated into Thai society, they are true patriotic Thai citizens. Therefore, considering that I am happy to live here and intend to remain and doing alright thank you with no ambitions to move anywhere else, I except the country for what it is and it`s values for the better and for the worse. If I were not able to do this and believed there is more freedoms elsewhere and the grass is greener over there rather than over here, than I would not stay.

For those that continue to stay in Thailand by their own choice either accept the laws and rulings of the powers that be and if they don`t and believe that justice, rights and democracy are better elsewhere are then hypocrites for continuing to stay here and not opting to move back home where their views will be acceptable and lifestyles more suited to them.

So who are these extremists? Since you're so well integrated into Thai society and appear to approve wholeheartedly of the current witchhunt, you presumably know exactly who they are and what their crimes are.