Nazi imagery as cool Thai fashion

[GoldenTriangle]

A motorcycle owner in my building thinks it is very cool to have big Hitler and swastika stickers on both sides of his vehicle.

When I pointed out to him how offensive this image is to many people around the world, he laughed and nodded. "Is cool," was his reply.

Then he laughed again, perplexed at my taking offense.

There have been various incidents like this in Thailand, and it appears that any history which isn't Thai is completely ignored. Apparently, many Thais consider Nazi imagery to be the height of urban fashion.

The Israeli ambassador was 'extremely saddened' a couple years ago when a government funded Thai film featured "Superhero Hitler" imagery and at another instance when a Thai art student was shown happily painting a portrait of Hitler as a heroic figure.

A well meaning woman pointed out to me, as I was already fully aware, the swastika in the sticker on the motorcycle is the reverse of what the Nazis used. Talk about missing the point.

I find it extreme sad and extreme offensive that any Thais I have spoken to about it find this issue laughable and not worth bothering about.

A Thai teacher told me what many neo-Nazis have said, "Hitler did some good things too."

The irony is the Nazis' opinion of East Asians was they barely qualify as mammals, let alone human, but after some intense culling the remainder might make a useful slave race.

I love Thailand but I too am 'extremely saddened' that many Thais appear to be utterly ignorant when it comes to global history, from the top on down, and are perfectly happy to remain so, despite the lip service some authorities have given the subject when it is brought to their attention.

I have attached a photo of the sticker in question.

[masuk]

That looks like a symbol used by Hindus. It's a reverse image of the swastika. It used to be a high award in Scouting. (US=Boy Scouts).

I mentioned to a couple of Thai friends what Hitler did with any Asians found in the occupied countries. They were shocked.

Don't be too hard on the Thais. Their knowledge of foreign history is about as good as our's was of Thai history before we came here. The great majority have little knowledge of the geographical location of most Western countries. It's the same in Indonesia.

[PlanetX]

The Thai greeting Sawadee comes from the same root - swastika

[sustento]

Blimey - is it Wednesday already?

[cornishcarlos]

The Thai greeting Sawadee comes from the same root - swastika

Really Where did you find that gem ?

[woolf]

The Thai greeting Sawadee comes from the same root - swastika

Really Where did you find that gem ?

The word “swastika” is derived from the Sanskrit “svastika” which refers to “well-being” and “good luck”.

Edited December 17, 2014 by woolf

[mania]

A well meaning woman pointed out to me, as I was already fully aware, the swastika in the sticker on the motorcycle is the reverse of what the Nazis used. Talk about missing the point.

Yes but who missed the point?

Is this man's belief in luck or whatever that symbol represents to him any less than your

distaste for something it is similar to?

I note these topics always get a lot of mileage here on TV

But why? You have a different history than they do.

That is to accept or reject as you choose but it is rather surprising & you would expect what of this man?

Here they have something that looks like it but pre-dates it by thousands of years

Yes that symbol that may have been later reversed by some very bad people represents something different....To You

Let it go IMO

The Swastika in Asian Art

The right hand (clockwise) Swastika is used by these religions which

practice ahimsa (non-violence) since ancient times.

It should never be confused with the left-hand (counterclockwise)

Swastika adopted by Adolf Hitler for his Nazi movement.

Edited December 17, 2014 by mania

[siamod]

We also have to remember that in the World War 2 Thailand had a military alliance with Japan, which was a part of the Axis powers. And this includes Italy and Nazi Germany. But then , why put the sticker of the loser on the bike?

[A1Str8]

Please don't be mad at thais because of this. This thing is very complicated. Sheer stupidity mixed with lack of basic historical knowledge, dumb ignorance and a couple of other lame traits and you have one question left: why in the world do you expect more from them? It is not fair.

[CMHomeboy78]

There is no active neo-Nazi movement in Thailand.

Hitler's face and Nazi symbols are used as macho decorations, they don't represent a political party, overt or covert here.

That is the reality in Thailand.

If you were here in the late '70s you will remember the ubiquitous face of Che Guevara in Alberto Korda's famous 'Guerrillero Heroico'. The stickers were everywhere, even on the mudflaps of ten-wheelers. At that time, Communist insurgents controlled large parts of the North and Northeast. Most of the Lao and Cambodian border regions were no-go areas; they were just outside of Nan and as close to Chiang Mai as Samoeng.

The face and ideology represented a clear and present danger to the established order in those days.

No such thing exists now... it's just radical chic.

[Briggsy]

Wait till you start noticing the mudflaps on decorated lorries. I know one of them is a Gibb but there's another one who is pointing a gun. I haven't worked out who it is yet.

[naboo]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

[quidnunc]

In the sixties in the USA Mao jackets and images of Mao were very popular. It's also useful to remember that the Nazis won the fashion war thanks to Hugo Boss who designed various military uniforms. The look was and is much more chic than the uniforms of the allies.

[CMHomeboy78]

Wait till you start noticing the mudflaps on decorated lorries. I know one of them is a Gibb but there's another one who is pointing a gun. I haven't worked out who it is yet.

Persico, I think... but whoever it is, most Thais wouldn't know him from Hitler, and wouldn't give a hoot.

[Torrens54]

That looks like a symbol used by Hindus. It's a reverse image of the swastika. It used to be a high award in Scouting. (US=Boy Scouts).

I mentioned to a couple of Thai friends what Hitler did with any Asians found in the occupied countries. They were shocked.

Don't be too hard on the Thais. Their knowledge of foreign history is about as good as our's was of Thai history before we came here. The great majority have little knowledge of the geographical location of most Western countries. It's the same in Indonesia.

Thanks "masuk." I don't know how many times I've had to explain this to new arrivals who get their "loin cloths" in a knot over this issue. You are right about Indonesia, in Bali there were in fact TWO Restaurants proudly displaying the logo. "Swastika One" and "Swastika Two." This was quite a few years ago and they both did very good business.The owner told me the Swastika was regarded as a sign of Good Luck. Obviously, it was for him.

[DogNo1]

You wouldn't get very far with anti-Nazi rhetoric in Japan. You would soon find yourself talking about Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the Tokyo firebombing. Many Japanese do seem to have a great deal of sympathy for the Jews though.

[Thai at Heart]

That looks like a symbol used by Hindus. It's a reverse image of the swastika. It used to be a high award in Scouting. (US=Boy Scouts).

I mentioned to a couple of Thai friends what Hitler did with any Asians found in the occupied countries. They were shocked.

Don't be too hard on the Thais. Their knowledge of foreign history is about as good as our's was of Thai history before we came here. The great majority have little knowledge of the geographical location of most Western countries. It's the same in Indonesia.

And the drawing of Hitler fits into the Hindu symbol exactly where?

Some people will defend the defenceless

[woolf]

That looks like a symbol used by Hindus. It's a reverse image of the swastika. It used to be a high award in Scouting. (US=Boy Scouts).

I mentioned to a couple of Thai friends what Hitler did with any Asians found in the occupied countries. They were shocked.

Don't be too hard on the Thais. Their knowledge of foreign history is about as good as our's was of Thai history before we came here. The great majority have little knowledge of the geographical location of most Western countries. It's the same in Indonesia.

And the drawing of Hitler fits into the Hindu symbol exactly where?

Some people will defend the defenceless

Did you just completely skip over the part where masuk mentioned that the general Thai population have little to no knowledge of what to them is foreign history? How are they to understand something to be offensive when they have no working knowledge of who or what they did?

Edited December 17, 2014 by woolf

[DaffyDuck]

Oh, you're offended by swastika and nazi imagery used in Thailand?

Please tell me of your knowledge of Pol Pot, and how you feel about the fashionable use of Mao iconographic imagery in the West, okay?

[Thai at Heart]

That looks like a symbol used by Hindus. It's a reverse image of the swastika. It used to be a high award in Scouting. (US=Boy Scouts).

I mentioned to a couple of Thai friends what Hitler did with any Asians found in the occupied countries. They were shocked.

Don't be too hard on the Thais. Their knowledge of foreign history is about as good as our's was of Thai history before we came here. The great majority have little knowledge of the geographical location of most Western countries. It's the same in Indonesia.

And the drawing of Hitler fits into the Hindu symbol exactly where?

Some people will defend the defenceless

Did you just completely skip over the part where masuk mentioned that the general Thai population have little to no knowledge of what to them is foreign history? How are they to understand something to be offensive when they have no working knowledge of who or what they did?

At best the guy is ignorant, not innocent. This is not a spiritual symbol when it has Hitler next to it.

Did you know that there is a language where the words "ignorant <deleted>", when put in conjunction with giving the middle finger means " hi mate how are you?"

Havent u heard of this language?

I hear it a lot around dumb ignorant people

[GoldenTriangle]

That looks like a symbol used by Hindus. It's a reverse image of the swastika. It used to be a high award in Scouting. (US=Boy Scouts).

I mentioned to a couple of Thai friends what Hitler did with any Asians found in the occupied countries. They were shocked.

Don't be too hard on the Thais. Their knowledge of foreign history is about as good as our's was of Thai history before we came here. The great majority have little knowledge of the geographical location of most Western countries. It's the same in Indonesia.

All the posts about the swastika and its various meanings are conveniently ignoring the fact it is right next to the image of Adolf Hitler. They are part of the same sticker. It is disingenuous to play the Hindu symbol card when it is far more likely the creator of the sticker just didn't know or care about the orientation of the symbol. And to my knowledge, Hitler is neither the source of a pleasant greeting nor an ancient good luck symbol.

It is easy to be glib and make various excuses when replying to this post and dismiss it as another wank about getting one's "loin cloth in knot" but you might feel differently if your family members were among those the Nazis abducted, robbed, raped and murdered.

I am not expecting Thai society to change overnight or for the country's education system to include comprehensive geography and global history courses any time soon. If you read the entire post, you will see I was pointing out the rather brutal irony that if Hitler had is way, Thais and all Asians would have been eradicated.

As for we farangs being unaware of Thai history, it would be safer to speak for oneself. I did not come here for the cheap retirement or the cheap beer. I was aware Nazi imagery was popular in parts of Asia but I hadn't come across it personally. Judging from the replies, I suppose this is the entirely wrong forum to have posted this kind of thing.

[mat999]

That photo in the original post is evil, plain and simple. The owner of the bike should be educated about it or locked up if he really is a nazi. Lets face it, if he is going to the trouble of customizing a motorbike he will want the images to have meaning so he will do his homework. So I would assume he is a nazi and I would be offended seeing that.

Unless he is a raving homosexual, then it is kind of OK because it is done in a camp, ironic way, but there are no clues that this is the case on the bike. I wouldn't do anything but I know at least one Jew that would attack him or at least break the bike.

It is not fashion it is a hate crime.

Edited December 17, 2014 by mat999

[junglechef]

As I have posted beforehand on this subject I believe I have made my opinion known which dealt more with the use of Nazi imagery in the schools and now government publications where they should, and most probably do, know better.

My question to Briggsy is what or who is "a Gibb"?

Furthermore I think the quote from Asian Art is confusing (and the way it reads to me incorrect but is also explained below)

The right hand (clockwise) Swastika is used by these religions which
practice ahimsa (non-violence) since ancient times.
It should never be confused with the left-hand (counterclockwise)

Swastika adopted by Adolf Hitler for his Nazi movement.

and I'm adding one from wikipedia for clarification.

"The mirror-image forms are often described as:

• clockwise and counterclockwise;
• left-facing and right-facing;
• left-hand and right-hand.

"Left-facing" and "right-facing" are the most consistent as they refer to the direction in which the upper arm of an upright swastika faces, either to the viewer's left (卍) or right (卐). The other two descriptions are ambiguous as it is unclear whether they refer to the arms as leading or being dragged or whether their bending is viewed outward or inward. However, "clockwise" usually refers to the "right-facing" swastika."

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Swastika can go either way, with Nazi symbol and every other symbol.

Left or right has no particular significance, although one appears more favoured by Buddhism and the other more favoured by Hinduism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauwastika

Nazi symbol usually goes in one direction because mass produced.

Earlier art, more individual.

Used widely in western countries before Adolf made it popular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_use_of_the_swastika_in_the_early_20th_century

Edited December 18, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[WinnieTheKhwai]

it appears that any history which isn't Thai is completely ignored.

Ah. Much like the omission of any history which isn't Western (or directly related to the Western world) in the curriculum I got.

[mamborobert]

This is nothing to do with Thais or Thailand or CM...its a world wide thing and as people have pointed out Che, Mau, Fidel, Marx, Lenin, Stalin, have and are on counter culture items worldwide.

Thais are ignorant? Lets not forget young Prince Harry who had I understand an excellent education turning up to a fancy dress party with Nazi emblems. Neither are first world nations....Japan for example has selective amnesia on the entire Second World War, not to mention the Thai Burma railway or the Rape of Nanking.

There are Farang hanging round with Buddhists tattoos as fashion statements only...there are Thais wearing a crucifix for the same reason...both give me the sh*ts. people don't think, people don't care

Folks are just odd. Education does not help, some have had a good one, some do not care even when made aware. Many years ago I remember a lecturer summarizing Human Psychology 101 as three dot points.

* Folks do strange things

* We don't know why

* The test is on Friday.

[haybilly]

Brings us round full circle to another Thread--about a Catholic School in CNX--I am 'borrowing' someone's photo from that thread, sorry for the, err, plagiarism....

[rickirs]

The Native American Navajo tribe before WWII used what they called "twirling logs" design in rug and pottery designs that looks similar to the swastika. But after Hitler made the swastika as a symbol of Nazi Party, the Indians stopped using the design. A morale cultural decision apparently lost on the Thais.

[northernjohn]

A well meaning woman pointed out to me, as I was already fully aware, the swastika in the sticker on the motorcycle is the reverse of what the Nazis used. Talk about missing the point.

Yes but who missed the point?

Is this man's belief in luck or whatever that symbol represents to him any less than your

distaste for something it is similar to?

I note these topics always get a lot of mileage here on TV

But why? You have a different history than they do.

That is to accept or reject as you choose but it is rather surprising & you would expect what of this man?

Here they have something that looks like it but pre-dates it by thousands of years

Yes that symbol that may have been later reversed by some very bad people represents something different....To You

Let it go IMO

The Swastika in Asian Art

The right hand (clockwise) Swastika is used by these religions which

practice ahimsa (non-violence) since ancient times.

It should never be confused with the left-hand (counterclockwise)

Swastika adopted by Adolf Hitler for his Nazi movement.

There is no getting around it. Many farongs don't care about Thai culture to them it is all wrong. Makes no difference what direction or form the symbol takes or how long it has been around with other meanings it is unacceptable in the west and there fore they feel that Thailand must change. No respect for Thai culture.

Edited December 18, 2014 by northernjohn

[northernjohn]

Please don't be mad at thais because of this. This thing is very complicated. Sheer stupidity mixed with lack of basic historical knowledge, dumb ignorance and a couple of other lame traits and you have one question left: why in the world do you expect more from them? It is not fair.

I presume you are making up excuses for your lack of understanding of the Swastika. One evil man made it the symbol for his country and you are willing to condemn the whole history of the symbol in all it's different forms.