Nazi imagery as cool Thai fashion

[thailiketoo]

It's willful ignorance of the most offensive kind. History is full of abominable exterminations and depredations. Our ancestors have all suffered at one time or another.

Do the descendents of Hitler's victims think they're unique?

Yet there is little in contemporary history that compares..

Mao and pol pot had an idea they could improve peoples lives by their misguided actions.. People died on mass, but in events more accidents of social mismanagement. Even Stalin probably fits into that mold.. And yes these are terrible events also, and should not in any way be celebrated or used for play acting and amusement.

Wars happen, its conflict of cultures..

But outright genocide, purported across all levels of society, religion, race, sexuality, etc.. Wiping out huge percentages Jews, Roma and Gypsies, the mentally and physically handicapped, homosexuals, etc etc.. And to do so in such a systemic, organized way.. This organized outright slaughter of so many millions simply because of a belief of racial superiority..

Can you name another in contemporary history ?? Rwanda slightly fits the bill, but again goes much more to a tribal conflict / war in the region than this simply exterminating those they felt untermench..

Given its probably the primary example in living memory.. I feel history teachers and educators should be keenly aware of it.. And sensitive to it.. Globally..

Al-Anfal Genocide

Moriori Genocide

Rwandan Genocide

Irish Potato Famine

Pygmy Genocide

Native American Genocide

Stolen Generations” of Aboriginals

Armenian Genocide

Bosnian Genocide

http://listverse.com/2013/05/03/10-atrocious-genocides-in-human-history/

[LivinLOS]

It's willful ignorance of the most offensive kind. History is full of abominable exterminations and depredations. Our ancestors have all suffered at one time or another.

Do the descendents of Hitler's victims think they're unique?

Yet there is little in contemporary history that compares..

Mao and pol pot had an idea they could improve peoples lives by their misguided actions.. People died on mass, but in events more accidents of social mismanagement. Even Stalin probably fits into that mold.. And yes these are terrible events also, and should not in any way be celebrated or used for play acting and amusement.

Wars happen, its conflict of cultures..

But outright genocide, purported across all levels of society, religion, race, sexuality, etc.. Wiping out huge percentages Jews, Roma and Gypsies, the mentally and physically handicapped, homosexuals, etc etc.. And to do so in such a systemic, organized way.. This organized outright slaughter of so many millions simply because of a belief of racial superiority..

Can you name another in contemporary history ?? Rwanda slightly fits the bill, but again goes much more to a tribal conflict / war in the region than this simply exterminating those they felt untermench..

Given its probably the primary example in living memory.. I feel history teachers and educators should be keenly aware of it.. And sensitive to it.. Globally..

Al-Anfal Genocide

Moriori Genocide

Rwandan Genocide

Irish Potato Famine

Pygmy Genocide

Native American Genocide

Stolen Generations” of Aboriginals

Armenian Genocide

Bosnian Genocide

http://listverse.com/2013/05/03/10-atrocious-genocides-in-human-history/

Terrible events no doubt.. And certainly anyone celebrating them in any form of amusement would be wrong to do so..

Yet many of them are not contemporary history.. And many also were a form of war between ethnicities or tribes or religions.. And all of them pale in the absolute horror of the numbers in comparison the the Nazis.. Who did much of this entirely to their own.. Simply based on the idea that sections of the society were sub human, racially inferior, and that gave them the right.

So unless you have something else I think its still fair to say its the primary example within living memory.. Something I would expect educators to know about.

[LivinLOS]

Some keep missing the point others have made. It's not offensive in general (all by itself) but is offensive to many (including yourself, obviously, and even to me to some degree) who have at least a reasonable understanding of what Hitler and the Nazis preached and did;

And for the N'th time..

Ignorance is sort of fogiveable.. Tho preferable would be for them to get the education..

Ignorance on the part of educators.. Is far more of a problem.. Teachers, in an english language catholic school should know far better.

Indeed, teachers should obviously know better. How else can they teach? With teachers as ignorant as those at the Chiang Mai Sacred Heart school have shown themselves to be, I would not trust them to learn my child what two plus two equals. I can only wonder where they found such bums. A parade like they did is so far out there in "how stupid can you get?"-lalaland it is difficult to believe.

There is however not much point in being offended by the motorcycle sticker in OP I think. In all likelihood the motorcycle owners teachers were ignorant on the subject and did not teach it, so why should he as a student know any better, unless he had a special interest in history? I'm sure he just thought the sticker looked cool, and one can see his point. If one can ignore what the picture depicts, it does look cool.

If it was a friend of mine, I'd show him some videos and pictures, and educate him a little on the meaning of the symbols on the sticker. Any person of normal intelligence would then remove the sticker himself. Offending through ignorance is not a serious crime in my book, unless it is your job to not be ignorant, of course.

I totally agree.. If I saw the bike with the sticker I would just go.. There you are.. Another ignorant mouthbreather.. As a personb, not aq school, its not worth excessive moral outrage..

But its the knowing that its wrong.. Knowing its offensive.. Knowing that an image you choose to use, is one associated with death and horror..

Its not that Thais dont know, its that they choose to celebrate it... Why pick that imagery, its nor random ignoring it..

[thailiketoo]

It's willful ignorance of the most offensive kind. History is full of abominable exterminations and depredations. Our ancestors have all suffered at one time or another.

Do the descendents of Hitler's victims think they're unique?

Yet there is little in contemporary history that compares..

Mao and pol pot had an idea they could improve peoples lives by their misguided actions.. People died on mass, but in events more accidents of social mismanagement. Even Stalin probably fits into that mold.. And yes these are terrible events also, and should not in any way be celebrated or used for play acting and amusement.

Wars happen, its conflict of cultures..

But outright genocide, purported across all levels of society, religion, race, sexuality, etc.. Wiping out huge percentages Jews, Roma and Gypsies, the mentally and physically handicapped, homosexuals, etc etc.. And to do so in such a systemic, organized way.. This organized outright slaughter of so many millions simply because of a belief of racial superiority..

Can you name another in contemporary history ?? Rwanda slightly fits the bill, but again goes much more to a tribal conflict / war in the region than this simply exterminating those they felt untermench..

Given its probably the primary example in living memory.. I feel history teachers and educators should be keenly aware of it.. And sensitive to it.. Globally..

Al-Anfal Genocide

Moriori Genocide

Rwandan Genocide

Irish Potato Famine

Pygmy Genocide

Native American Genocide

Stolen Generations” of Aboriginals

Armenian Genocide

Bosnian Genocide

http://listverse.com/2013/05/03/10-atrocious-genocides-in-human-history/

Terrible events no doubt.. And certainly anyone celebrating them in any form of amusement would be wrong to do so..

Yet many of them are not contemporary history.. And many also were a form of war between ethnicities or tribes or religions.. And all of them pale in the absolute horror of the numbers in comparison the the Nazis.. Who did much of this entirely to their own.. Simply based on the idea that sections of the society were sub human, racially inferior, and that gave them the right.

So unless you have something else I think its still fair to say its the primary example within living memory.. Something I would expect educators to know about.

1. I suggest you look up the dates. 2. Who are you to put a time limit on genocide being important or not important or worthy of study. 3, Your ignorance of the above genocides is terrible and should be corrected. 4, I'll add one. Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule. As a result, an estimated 7,000,000 persons perished in this farming area, known as the breadbasket of Europe, with the people deprived of the food they had grown with their own hands.

I find your ignorance of the facts appalling but understandable because of your lack of a proper education. I find your seeming ignorance of mass murder or justification of it also appalling.

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

Because one dictator kills people he doesn't like that you know; Jews, Gypsies, Poles and other Slavs, and people with physical or mental disabilities. Others were Nazi victims because of what they did. These victims of the Nazi regime included Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, the dissenting clergy, Communists, Socialists, asocials, and other political enemies. As opposed to Chinese people Mao killed 78 million who you don't know I can't fathom why one action would be morally more heinous than the other and there is the difference 9 million to 78 million.

The Holocaust was terrible but in the history of the world or the history in Asia there are many other mass murderers that have been worse and we should remember them all. I don't see one mass murderer standing out to be taught to the world first. In Asia I would teach about Asian history first and in Europe about European history first.

I have known people and families that have been involved in 4 genocides and believe me time changes nothing. An Irishman, an Armenian, a Ukrainian or American Indian all have long memories when someone tried to wipe out their entire people. Many Chinese also remember the bad about Mao however some famous Swiss investor living in Chiang Mai makes light Mao's mass murders.

Edited December 28, 2014 by thailiketoo

[northernjohn]

It's willful ignorance of the most offensive kind. History is full of abominable exterminations and depredations. Our ancestors have all suffered at one time or another.

Do the descendents of Hitler's victims think they're unique?

Yet there is little in contemporary history that compares..

Mao and pol pot had an idea they could improve peoples lives by their misguided actions.. People died on mass, but in events more accidents of social mismanagement. Even Stalin probably fits into that mold.. And yes these are terrible events also, and should not in any way be celebrated or used for play acting and amusement.

Wars happen, its conflict of cultures..

But outright genocide, purported across all levels of society, religion, race, sexuality, etc.. Wiping out huge percentages Jews, Roma and Gypsies, the mentally and physically handicapped, homosexuals, etc etc.. And to do so in such a systemic, organized way.. This organized outright slaughter of so many millions simply because of a belief of racial superiority..

Can you name another in contemporary history ?? Rwanda slightly fits the bill, but again goes much more to a tribal conflict / war in the region than this simply exterminating those they felt untermench..

Given its probably the primary example in living memory.. I feel history teachers and educators should be keenly aware of it.. And sensitive to it.. Globally..

Al-Anfal Genocide

Moriori Genocide

Rwandan Genocide

Irish Potato Famine

Pygmy Genocide

Native American Genocide

Stolen Generations” of Aboriginals

Armenian Genocide

Bosnian Genocide

http://listverse.com/2013/05/03/10-atrocious-genocides-in-human-history/

Terrible events no doubt.. And certainly anyone celebrating them in any form of amusement would be wrong to do so..

Yet many of them are not contemporary history.. And many also were a form of war between ethnicities or tribes or religions.. And all of them pale in the absolute horror of the numbers in comparison the the Nazis.. Who did much of this entirely to their own.. Simply based on the idea that sections of the society were sub human, racially inferior, and that gave them the right.

So unless you have something else I think its still fair to say its the primary example within living memory.. Something I would expect educators to know about.

So you justify all those because they are not contemporary. I have no real idea on all of them but I would think Rwanda would be more contemporary. Also the Native American Indians.

This whole thread started over a guy liking the Nazi symbol and flag and putting them on his bike. I doubt very much he was doing it to justify what the Nazi's did he probably just liked them. Much as many Americans like the Dixie flag.

Edited December 28, 2014 by northernjohn

[junglechef]

As I've already stated my feelings, perhaps overstated them from being emotional caused by some insensitive posts, I just want to say that since as much as I was surprised by the use of Nazi symbols upon arriving here ten years ago now I look at it more blase, realizing they ate just a result of being uneducated or at least ignorant but doubtfully hateful (I am excluding the school involved in the sports day debacle and anyone who knows better or should from their position or upbringing).

But what this long (post #186!) and at times thought provoking thread has done is exactly what many of us are saying, bringing light and educating about these atrocities. When speaking of the Holocaust he Jewish people say "Don't forget" and encourage all people to learn from the mistakes of our past.
'

[mat999]

... When speaking of the Holocaust the Jewish people say "Don't forget" and encourage all people to learn from the mistakes of our past.

'

Bingo!

[mania]

... When speaking of the Holocaust the Jewish people say "Don't forget" and encourage all people to learn from the mistakes of our past.

'

Bingo!

For sure !

But...the problem I think comes when "encourage" changes to "demands"

[mat999]

I guess you are right, the best we can do is try to encourage and educate in such a far away land.

[sly4all]

It's willful ignorance of the most offensive kind. History is full of abominable exterminations and depredations. Our ancestors have all suffered at one time or another.

Do the descendents of Hitler's victims think they're unique?

Yet there is little in contemporary history that compares..

Mao and pol pot had an idea they could improve peoples lives by their misguided actions.. People died on mass, but in events more accidents of social mismanagement. Even Stalin probably fits into that mold.. And yes these are terrible events also, and should not in any way be celebrated or used for play acting and amusement.

Wars happen, its conflict of cultures..

But outright genocide, purported across all levels of society, religion, race, sexuality, etc.. Wiping out huge percentages Jews, Roma and Gypsies, the mentally and physically handicapped, homosexuals, etc etc.. And to do so in such a systemic, organized way.. This organized outright slaughter of so many millions simply because of a belief of racial superiority..

Can you name another in contemporary history ?? Rwanda slightly fits the bill, but again goes much more to a tribal conflict / war in the region than this simply exterminating those they felt untermench..

Given its probably the primary example in living memory.. I feel history teachers and educators should be keenly aware of it.. And sensitive to it.. Globally..

The Cambodian genocide perpetrated by the Khmer Rouge was not the results of accidents from social mismanagement. You do not wipe 25% of your population inadvertently. It was planned torture and mass murder following an ideology, that was no "collateral damage". Whatever the ideology is, a genocide is a genocide regardless of the numbers yet some feels some genocides deserve more attention than others. This is just a point of view. We want to pretend than we can learn from these events but sadly our human nature will continue to prove than we don't, just open any history book from any civilization. No matter how hard we try, history will just repeat itself at some point. To each his own education, own feeling and own memory. We will all forget at some point, some faster than others. The ideas of universal human rights, equality, democracy is still and will continue to be an utopia for all of us.

Now we can continue to write on Thai ignorance regarding WW2 imagery or accept that ignorance is bliss .

[Greydog]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Ask a Thai about Pol Pot and you will get a blank look 9 out of 10 times.

Thai history in Thailand is literally Thai history: it's all about Thailand. :-)

Edited December 30, 2014 by Greydog

[thailiketoo]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Ask a Thai about Pol Pot and you will get a blank look 9 out of 10 times.

Thai history in Thailand is literally Thai history: it's all about Thailand. :-)

Try asking in Surin.

[Greydog]

That's my rant and my gripe....... don't you tell me what I am supposed to think or feel.

Hear hear !

You can say & do whatever you want - but expect a response from those that disagree with you! What is wrong with that???

[mania]

That's my rant and my gripe....... don't you tell me what I am supposed to think or feel.

Hear hear !

You can say & do whatever you want - but expect a response from those that disagree with you! What is wrong with that???

Nothing wrong at all if solicited but..... Instead it was the OP who pointed something out & got a response

which the motorcycle owner was free to give ...yes?

I think many folks here have the wrong idea that many are promoting something other than the right of each individual

to decide for themselves. Some talk a lot about education but forget that even with massive education everyone is still free to

decide for themselves what is what in their own sphere. A good educator only lays the existing history/info in front of a student. They do not

demand a student take that info & then agree to what the teacher has decided

Again I am not promoting anything more than that. If one were to ask me what I thought of groups in the US like the Skinheads or the KKK

I would say I do not understand such hate. Yet I do not feel the need to respond to it...jail them...beat them...as has been suggested about the motorcycle

owner in the OP

Instead I can appreciate the answer below Matt999 just gave in regards to encourage rather than demand

I think that would go a lot further than demanding others see it the same as you or anyone

I guess you are right, the best we can do is try to encourage and educate in such a far away land.

Edited December 30, 2014 by mania

[onthedarkside]

Way off the topic post removed. Looks like this topic is about finished - at last.

[onthedarkside]

//TOPIC NOW CLOSED//

No longer CM related.