Nazi imagery as cool Thai fashion

[quidnunc]

The Native American Navajo tribe before WWII used what they called "twirling logs" design in rug and pottery designs that looks similar to the swastika. But after Hitler made the swastika as a symbol of Nazi Party, the Indians stopped using the design. A morale cultural decision apparently lost on the Thais.

The Cross was used for centuries as the symbol of ruthless persecution and mass slaughter. Maybe when we see its use being shunned by westerners, then we might be entitled to judge the Thais..

[LivinLOS]

A well meaning woman pointed out to me, as I was already fully aware, the swastika in the sticker on the motorcycle is the reverse of what the Nazis used. Talk about missing the point.

Yes but who missed the point?

Is this man's belief in luck or whatever that symbol represents to him any less than your

distaste for something it is similar to?

I note these topics always get a lot of mileage here on TV

But why? You have a different history than they do.

That is to accept or reject as you choose but it is rather surprising & you would expect what of this man?

Here they have something that looks like it but pre-dates it by thousands of years

Yes that symbol that may have been later reversed by some very bad people represents something different....To You

Let it go IMO

The Swastika in Asian Art

The right hand (clockwise) Swastika is used by these religions which

practice ahimsa (non-violence) since ancient times.

It should never be confused with the left-hand (counterclockwise)

Swastika adopted by Adolf Hitler for his Nazi movement.

There is no getting around it. Many farongs don't care about Thai culture to them it is all wrong. Makes no difference what direction or form the symbol takes or how long it has been around with other meanings it is unacceptable in the west and there fore they feel that Thailand must change. No respect for Thai culture.

In case its escaped your attention.. This isnt about the 'innocent' historical use of a swastika.. This is about pairing swastikas with copy SS uniforms, Hitler imagery, holocaust celebration..

Any attempt to pretend otherwise is complete and total denial of the facts.. Your attempt to paint this as some cross cultural miss understanding is just more pandering and whitewashing of what they are really doing. Another wannabe Thai farang, making off the mark excuses for idiotic behavior.

This..

Is not some kind of historical ancient celebration of a good luck symbol.. No matter how much people try to deny the obvious and pretend it is.

[wellred]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Not quite same same. It's not like westerns teenagers are going around with pol pot branded t shirts are they? Apples and oranges. Even the dumbest western folks recognise what the nazis stood for and I doubt any would ever go around with Khmer Rouge branded attire without understanding at a high level what that group stood for.

The Thais who do this are either retarded or are out to intentionally cause offence.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Not quite same same. It's not like westerns teenagers are going around with pol pot branded t shirts are they? Apples and oranges. Even the dumbest western folks recognise what the nazis stood for and I doubt any would ever go around with Khmer Rouge branded attire without understanding at a high level what that group stood for.

The Thais who do this are either retarded or are out to intentionally cause offence.

Also should point out, this was the Sacred Heart Catholic private English language school.

They do their entire school lessons in English, employ plenty of native English speakers and charge a lot for lessons.

This isn't some backwoods dumb people, this is supposedly the top of the educated ladder in Thailand, well versed in western world history.

How could it happen?

In such a place?

By accident?

Or ignorance?

Same for Prayut's video!

Edited December 19, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[wellred]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Not quite same same. It's not like westerns teenagers are going around with pol pot branded t shirts are they? Apples and oranges. Even the dumbest western folks recognise what the nazis stood for and I doubt any would ever go around with Khmer Rouge branded attire without understanding at a high level what that group stood for.

The Thais who do this are either retarded or are out to intentionally cause offence.

Also should point out, this was the Sacred Heart private English language school.

They do their entire school lessons in English, employ plenty of native English speakers and charge a lot for lessons.

This isn't some backwoods dumb people, this is supposedly the top of the educated ladder in Thailand, well versed in world history.

How could it happen?

In such a place?

By accident?

Or ignorance?

Same for Prayut's video!

It's deliberate and everyone knows it.

[LivinLOS]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Not quite same same. It's not like westerns teenagers are going around with pol pot branded t shirts are they? Apples and oranges. Even the dumbest western folks recognise what the nazis stood for and I doubt any would ever go around with Khmer Rouge branded attire without understanding at a high level what that group stood for.

The Thais who do this are either retarded or are out to intentionally cause offence.

And actually.. I think it would be a rare late teen westerner who hadnt at least heard of pol pot, the killing fields, possibly Dith Pran etc..

I am sure most dont know the details.. But certainly a general idea and loose understanding.. I also would be London to a brick your average expat westerner in asia knows FAR more about the local history than the residents.

[CMBob]

There is no getting around it. Many farongs don't care about Thai culture to them it is all wrong. Makes no difference what direction or form the symbol takes or how long it has been around with other meanings it is unacceptable in the west and there fore they feel that Thailand must change. No respect for Thai culture.

Just because somebody disagrees with the use of a currently despised symbol doesn't mean they are insensitive to Thai culture. And I also disagree with those who somewhat suggest it's okay to use the swastika nowadays just because it had other (non-Nazi) roots in history.

The fact that many/most Thais don't know how most of the world views the swastika isn't a "cultural" thing, it's simply a lack of a reasonably decent education.

[M71]

Whole thing depends to a big degree on your take on history - do you believe it or not.

As Winston stated - "The victors write the history" - been that way for the last 10,000 years.

[LivinLOS]

Whole thing depends to a big degree on your take on history - do you believe it or not.

So you dont believe WWII happened ?? That the nazis existed or that they committed atrocities and had death camps etc ??

You consider that 'like.. just your opinion man' to quote the Dude..

[DaddyWarbucks]

Whole thing depends to a big degree on your take on history - do you believe it or not.

As Winston stated - "The victors write the history" - been that way for the last 10,000 years.

How true!

The gauleiter mentality never dies, it just changes uniforms from time to time... that has often been said, and it's just as true as what you quote "The victors write history."

They're still killing and torturing, they're just a little more discreet about it nowadays.

Even if it doesn't go to those extremes, they will tell you what kind of stickers you can and can't put on your motorbike.

Sanctimonious creeps and busybodies - Thailand had very few of them until recently.

That was one of the country's main attractions.

[arunsakda]

Wait till you start noticing the mudflaps on decorated lorries. I know one of them is a Gibb but there's another one who is pointing a gun. I haven't worked out who it is yet.

I think Brigsy mistook the ubiquitous images of Al Pacino as "Serpico" on lorries and tuk-tuks for one of the brothers Gibb. Edited December 19, 2014 by arunsakda

[puukao]

https://www.pinterest.com/kiwiguy54/swastika-is-a-symbol-of-peace/

I'm sure if I wore a swastika it would possibly say peace and the intent would be clear to 90% (some never get anything). I am a believer that the Nazis killed jews, polish people, and millions of others in a brutal fashion (who knows what the Russians did when the occupied Berlin); using concentration techniques first seen in Turkey (Ottoman Empire) and possibly one other place I forget....

Edited December 19, 2014 by puukao

[LivinLOS]

Wait till you start noticing the mudflaps on decorated lorries. I know one of them is a Gibb but there's another one who is pointing a gun. I haven't worked out who it is yet.

I think Brigsy mistook the ubiquitous images of Al Pacino as "Serpico" on lorries and tuk-tuks for one of the brothers Gibb.

One of them is Serpico.. As a non corrupt cop in a sea of corrupt ones.. Truckers put these on apparently so they get good luck and only get stopped by cops not looking to shake them down too hard..

Another one seems to me to be badly drawn stallone in mirror shades.. I havent got the low down on why thats ones used, but he did a few movies where he played trucker roles so I am guessing its from one of those (over the top etc).. If anyone knows, would like to know..

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I'm generally a fan of buses painted with outrageous art, of the type normally reserved for pinball machines.

This weekend I saw one that also included a swastika and 'Hard Core School' caption.

This still comes in as 'awesome' in my book. Not because of the swastika per se but the general 'F U' attitude (or complete ignorance if you will) of even a hint of political correctness.

I googled the designer name in Thai (Toon Khot Phaeng) and that resulted in a lot more bus designs with a lot of, erm, presence.

The swastika appears to be a bit of a signature of the artist.

EDIT: Oh yes, one thing. Before the hollering starts again, be careful what you wish for.

Because before you know it, buses (as a metaphore for Thailand in general) might look like they do in Europe.

Very sensible.

Very correct.

Very... very why I'm here and not there.

Edited December 22, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[CMHomeboy78]

.

EDIT: Oh yes, one thing. Before the hollering starts again, be careful what you wish for.

Because before you know it, buses (as a metaphore for Thailand in general) might look like they do in Europe.

Very sensible.

Very correct.

Very... very why I'm here and not there.

Boring Euro Bus.jpg

Perceptive post illustrated by some stunning visuals.

[Thai at Heart]

A well meaning woman pointed out to me, as I was already fully aware, the swastika in the sticker on the motorcycle is the reverse of what the Nazis used. Talk about missing the point.

Yes but who missed the point?

Is this man's belief in luck or whatever that symbol represents to him any less than your

distaste for something it is similar to?

I note these topics always get a lot of mileage here on TV

But why? You have a different history than they do.

That is to accept or reject as you choose but it is rather surprising & you would expect what of this man?

Here they have something that looks like it but pre-dates it by thousands of years

Yes that symbol that may have been later reversed by some very bad people represents something different....To You

Let it go IMO

The Swastika in Asian Art

The right hand (clockwise) Swastika is used by these religions which

practice ahimsa (non-violence) since ancient times.

It should never be confused with the left-hand (counterclockwise)

Swastika adopted by Adolf Hitler for his Nazi movement.

There is no getting around it. Many farongs don't care about Thai culture to them it is all wrong. Makes no difference what direction or form the symbol takes or how long it has been around with other meanings it is unacceptable in the west and there fore they feel that Thailand must change. No respect for Thai culture.

There is zero obligation on a foreigner to respect thai culture or vice versa. However, one must take the criticism when being apparently dumb and ignorant.....

[cornishcarlos]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Meanwhile, the majority of Thais have never learnt and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Can you spot the common denominator here ?

[daoyai]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Meanwhile, the majority of Thais have never learnt and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Can you spot the common denominator here ?

They may not have heard of PolPot but mention "Khmer dang" they may be more familiar.

[cornishcarlos]

Meanwhile, children in the west learn and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Meanwhile, the majority of Thais have never learnt and know nothing of Pol Pot.

Can you spot the common denominator here ?

They may not have heard of PolPot but mention "Khmer dang" they may be more familiar.

Maybe a few that come from the border provinces, rest of the country would be clueless...

[Gonzo the Face]

There is a personal sore spot with the basis of this entire thread.

Its not about whether Hitler was good or Hitler was bad

Its not about a symbol is good, bad or religious

Its not about whether I like spinach or not or you do or do not.

What I do find objectionable is the ever so much dogmatic approach that does not allow any other party to accept or reject any symbol, thought, action, or any other aspect , as good , bad, or indifferent for themselves........ and not have others tell him what is to be done, said, accepted or what.

You may like it, I may not like it....... both are correct for these individuals......

Why so vehement about someone having a different opinion ???? Forcing someone to agree to all that you say, is wrong, All are entitled to their own opinion. Anytime Nazism, Hitler, WWII, or anything related comes up........ the same almost violent cadre pops up and wants you to agree to their side...... that in itself is wrong. Whether you like it or not, I have my opinion..... it is mine and I am entitled to it as much as you are to yours.......

That's my rant and my gripe....... don't you tell me what I am supposed to think or feel.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Gonzo the Face

[CMHomeboy78]

There is a personal sore spot with the basis of this entire thread.

Its not about whether Hitler was good or Hitler was bad

Its not about a symbol is good, bad or religious

Its not about whether I like spinach or not or you do or do not.

What I do find objectionable is the ever so much dogmatic approach that does not allow any other party to accept or reject any symbol, thought, action, or any other aspect , as good , bad, or indifferent for themselves........ and not have others tell him what is to be done, said, accepted or what.

You may like it, I may not like it....... both are correct for these individuals......

Why so vehement about someone having a different opinion ???? Forcing someone to agree to all that you say, is wrong, All are entitled to their own opinion. Anytime Nazism, Hitler, WWII, or anything related comes up........ the same almost violent cadre pops up and wants you to agree to their side...... that in itself is wrong. Whether you like it or not, I have my opinion..... it is mine and I am entitled to it as much as you are to yours.......

That's my rant and my gripe....... don't you tell me what I am supposed to think or feel.

A good summing up of this thread in particular, and of this troll topic in general.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

There is a personal sore spot with the basis of this entire thread.

Its not about whether Hitler was good or Hitler was bad

Its not about a symbol is good, bad or religious

Its not about whether I like spinach or not or you do or do not.

What I do find objectionable is the ever so much dogmatic approach that does not allow any other party to accept or reject any symbol, thought, action, or any other aspect , as good , bad, or indifferent for themselves........ and not have others tell him what is to be done, said, accepted or what.

You may like it, I may not like it....... both are correct for these individuals......

Why so vehement about someone having a different opinion ???? Forcing someone to agree to all that you say, is wrong, All are entitled to their own opinion. Anytime Nazism, Hitler, WWII, or anything related comes up........ the same almost violent cadre pops up and wants you to agree to their side...... that in itself is wrong. Whether you like it or not, I have my opinion..... it is mine and I am entitled to it as much as you are to yours.......

That's my rant and my gripe....... don't you tell me what I am supposed to think or feel.

A good summing up of this thread in particular, and of this troll topic in general.

I can assuredly tell you, you're not supposed to like Nazis, Hitler, or Nazi imagery.

Now, tell me I'm wrong ......... if you dare!

And that includes teenage Thai Catholic schoolgirls dressed in high heeled slutty Nazi hooker outfits.

(you should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves)

Edited December 22, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Nobody likes nazism, I think we can pretty much agree on that.

However, people's tolerance for imagery clearly varies.

For example, some people don't want to see swastikas anywhere, not even on Airfix airplane scale models or toys. Or in movies. Others would say: that's what they looked like. Some people objected to comedy ('Allo 'Allo (look it up), or "Springtime for Hitler" skits). Some people object to WWII era movies if any German/Nazi at all isn't depicted as 100% evil. And then finally a lot of people object to a dress-up, of the type perpetrated by Prince Harry and more recently a Chiang Mai school.

Point is, you can debate this scale until the cows come home, but you won't find consensus on a fixed set of morals when it comes to references and imagery.

Edited December 22, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[mania]

That's my rant and my gripe....... don't you tell me what I am supposed to think or feel.

Hear hear !

[LivinLOS]

There is a personal sore spot with the basis of this entire thread.

Its not about whether Hitler was good or Hitler was bad

Its not about a symbol is good, bad or religious

Its not about whether I like spinach or not or you do or do not.

What I do find objectionable is the ever so much dogmatic approach that does not allow any other party to accept or reject any symbol, thought, action, or any other aspect , as good , bad, or indifferent for themselves........ and not have others tell him what is to be done, said, accepted or what.

You may like it, I may not like it....... both are correct for these individuals......

Why so vehement about someone having a different opinion ???? Forcing someone to agree to all that you say, is wrong, All are entitled to their own opinion. Anytime Nazism, Hitler, WWII, or anything related comes up........ the same almost violent cadre pops up and wants you to agree to their side...... that in itself is wrong. Whether you like it or not, I have my opinion..... it is mine and I am entitled to it as much as you are to yours.......

That's my rant and my gripe....... don't you tell me what I am supposed to think or feel.

I think your missing the point.. Respecting or glorifying mass murderers and those who commit genocide is not 'opinion'... Especially in the setting of children and education its a time to educate core 'rights and wrongs' a time to bring in ideas relating to human rights and equality, the denial of racial superiority, the dangers of dictatorships, the dangers of nationalism and extremism, etc etc etc..

Its not something to be done 'for fun' as a bit of a laugh for a school day.

[LivinLOS]

That's my rant and my gripe....... don't you tell me what I am supposed to think or feel.

Hear hear !

Your free to think and feel what you like.. Freedom of expression and speech etc.. But if what you think and feel includes glorification of extremist, racist, bigoted type views..

Then I am equally free to call you out as being an ass for it.. Thats the beauty of opinions and freedom of speech..

This thread is effectively calling out the educators of that school, and Thais ignorant of what they are celebrating. The asses.

[mania]

Your free to think and feel what you like.. Freedom of expression and speech etc.. But if what you think and feel includes glorification of extremist, racist, bigoted type views..

Then I am equally free to call you out

Well thanks for your permission for me to like another posters statement that he

is free to feel/think as he wants.......Yet you felt the need to attach a "But" to it

so actually you gave nothing.....Not that I need anything from you in the way of approvals

Yes goes without saying you too are afforded the right to say or think what you want &

I will attach no "But" to it.

Lastly funny that more than likely the biggest complainers

came from countries that had Free Speech etc as a right.

Yet now they come to another country & would like to dictate the limits of such.

I too come from such a country...There they have the right to say/express as they please.

That is not to say I agree with it.

But that is the freedom & yes it is a double edged sword but you cannot have one without the other

Funny that the staunch supporters of limiting such are the most like the thing they claim to hate here

Because that thing also did not allow choice.

Edited December 23, 2014 by mania

[LivinLOS]

Again.. People have the right of free speech..

And again.. Educators who fail so spectacularly at any kind of cultural sensitivity and respect, deserve to be out of a job..

[philw]

There is a personal sore spot with the basis of this entire thread.

Its not about whether Hitler was good or Hitler was bad

Its not about a symbol is good, bad or religious

Its not about whether I like spinach or not or you do or do not.

What I do find objectionable is the ever so much dogmatic approach that does not allow any other party to accept or reject any symbol, thought, action, or any other aspect , as good , bad, or indifferent for themselves........ and not have others tell him what is to be done, said, accepted or what.

You may like it, I may not like it....... both are correct for these individuals......

Why so vehement about someone having a different opinion ???? Forcing someone to agree to all that you say, is wrong, All are entitled to their own opinion. Anytime Nazism, Hitler, WWII, or anything related comes up........ the same almost violent cadre pops up and wants you to agree to their side...... that in itself is wrong. Whether you like it or not, I have my opinion..... it is mine and I am entitled to it as much as you are to yours.......

That's my rant and my gripe....... don't you tell me what I am supposed to think or feel.

A good summing up of this thread in particular, and of this troll topic in general.

I can assuredly tell you, you're not supposed to like Nazis, Hitler, or Nazi imagery.

Now, tell me I'm wrong ......... if you dare!

And that includes teenage Thai Catholic schoolgirls dressed in high heeled slutty Nazi hooker outfits.

(you should all be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves)

At least one of them looked pretty attractive to me..............

Something to with the uniform per se, not the insignia.

Or are we not allowed to say that ?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Again.. People have the right of free speech..

And again.. Educators who fail so spectacularly at any kind of cultural sensitivity and respect, deserve to be out of a job..

or appointed PM.