Nazi imagery as cool Thai fashion

[thailiketoo]

If the Japanese had invaded you might have a point; however they didn't. In exchange for a favorable negotiation of the Franco Thai war Thailand agreed to allow the Japanese to transit Thailand and attack Singapore.

What are you talking about..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Thailand

The Japanese invasion of Thailand occurred on December 8, 1941. It was fought between Thailand and the Empire of Japan.

They bombed the airport.. Attacked all down the peninsula.. They attacked with Army, Navy and Air force..

At the time of the ceasefire, Britain and the United States regarded Thailand as Japanese-occupied territory.

On 14 December, Phibun signed a secret agreement with the Japanese committing Thai troops in the Malayan Campaign and Burma Campaign. An alliance between Thailand and Japan was formally signed on December 21, 1941. On January 25, 1942, the Thai government declared war on the United States and the United Kingdom

I believe you are trying to get the thread closed by going off topic. There is a very long WWII that covers your questions.

Let me see if I can separate topic from off topic and just ask you the on topic questions you edited out of my post completely changing it's meaning and making it seem like I was going off topic.

I wrote and you edited out, "You are right they joined a losing team but didn't pay for it. Little reparations and no convictions in war crimes trial. Hence, no effect that's why no Thais know anything about it and what little they do know is wrong but tell me where is the Hitler and Swastika stuff in your Thai history lesson? Many Nazi come here?

Thais are not acquainted with your history and you are not acquainted with theirs. They are knowledgeable about a very small bit of their own history hence they can't be insulting. They don't have the knowledge that an insult would require. The few who know they fought a war in the 1940's think they won by looking at the Victory monument.

I'm sure the Greeks who fought at Thermopile would be insulted with the mascot for Michigan State's football team. But, trust me. The boys who play football don't have a clue about the battle so they could not mean any ill will by their mascot. "

So let me ask again if Thais are not taught anything about your culture and Nazism and Hitler in WWII how could they possibly be insulting?

They don't know. You are trying to tell them your culture is important but the ministry of education has made a decision that your culture is not worth knowing about. Not the Thai kids fault. If you have a complaint why don't your forward it to the Thai ministry of education.

[LivinLOS]

Look you wanted to get all lecture'y while giving a dumb wrong fact.. Thailand was invaded by the Japanese.. Thailand was occupied.. Thailand was involved in WWII and Thailand even declared war against the allied powers and was involved in the Burma campaigns and malay conflicts. Your wrong.

And once again.. I keep saying the burden of the problem is not on the Thais who are going to the school.. Or even normal people acting out of ignorance, even tho it is ignorant (surely your not suggesting ignorance is a good thing ??) its on the educators who failed to understand what they were allowing to happen, in a private catholic school, which has an international english language program, was offensive. They received terrible international press and condemnation, and rightfully so.

I dont think its too much to expect, a lack of ignorance, in a educator or an faculty of education. Its pretty much the definition of those things that they should not be ignorant.

Edited December 26, 2014 by LivinLOS

[CMHomeboy78]

Look you wanted to get all lecture'y while giving a dumb wrong fact.. Thailand was invaded by the Japanese.. Thailand was occupied.. Thailand was involved in WWII and Thailand even declared war against the allied powers and was involved in the Burma campaigns and malay conflicts. Your wrong.

And once again.. I keep saying the burden of the problem is not on the Thais who are going to the school.. Or even normal people acting out of ignorance, even tho it is ignorant (surely your not suggesting ignorance is a good thing ??) its on the educators who failed to understand what they were allowing to happen, in a private catholic school, which has an international english language program, was offensive. They received terrible international press and condemnation, and rightfully so.

I dont think its too much to expect, a lack of ignorance, in a educator or an faculty of education. Its pretty much the definition of those things that they should not be ignorant.

Your arguments are becoming incoherent.

Incidentally, before you start lecturing and educating other people, you should learn the difference between your and you're.

[thailiketoo]

Look you wanted to get all lecture'y while giving a dumb wrong fact.. Thailand was invaded by the Japanese.. Thailand was occupied.. Thailand was involved in WWII and Thailand even declared war against the allied powers and was involved in the Burma campaigns and malay conflicts. Your wrong.

And once again.. I keep saying the burden of the problem is not on the Thais who are going to the school.. Or even normal people acting out of ignorance, even tho it is ignorant (surely your not suggesting ignorance is a good thing ??) its on the educators who failed to understand what they were allowing to happen, in a private catholic school, which has an international english language program, was offensive. They received terrible international press and condemnation, and rightfully so.

I dont think its too much to expect, a lack of ignorance, in a educator or an faculty of education. Its pretty much the definition of those things that they should not be ignorant.

This thread is about kids and Nazi chic. You think they should be educated about Nazism. OK fine. I don't. Too many other things first. It's not that I think teaching about WWII is not important but it would rank about 78th on my list of things that are important for Thai children to learn.

Edited December 26, 2014 by thailiketoo

[StefanBBK]

Who cares. Clearly these symbols are not used in neo Nazi context. No Thai would get offended. Who are we to lecture them. We are just guests and should keep out of it.

[CMHomeboy78]

Who cares. Clearly these symbols are not used in neo Nazi context. No Thai would get offended. Who are we to lecture them. We are just guests and should keep out of it.

This concise post of yours says it all... in a nutshell.

[mat999]

There is no active neo-Nazi movement in Thailand.

Hitler's face and Nazi symbols are used as macho decorations, they don't represent a political party, overt or covert here.

That is the reality in Thailand.

If you were here in the late '70s you will remember the ubiquitous face of Che Guevara in Alberto Korda's famous 'Guerrillero Heroico'. The stickers were everywhere, even on the mudflaps of ten-wheelers. At that time, Communist insurgents controlled large parts of the North and Northeast. Most of the Lao and Cambodian border regions were no-go areas; they were just outside of Nan and as close to Chiang Mai as Samoeng.

The face and ideology represented a clear and present danger to the established order in those days.

No such thing exists now... it's just radical chic.

Thank you. The swastika, or a symbol that is inverted, but similar, was used for thousands of years by the Hindus, prior to Tiny Adolf co-opting it, as a symbol of his murderous regime. So, many do not consider it offensive. The Thais who use it are not neo nazis, nor are they haters. They are just doing it as something that is hip or cool. Nothing is meant by it. Frankly, I find it more offensive, when thin skinned westerners get huffy over this, than the use of the symbol itself. Get over yourself. Who cares? It is just a symbol. I think the intent is often more important than the symbol. I am Jewish, and find a lot of Jews to be very, very thin skinned. About symbols, criticism of Israeli policy, etc. No room for discussion. No room for criticism, or I am labeled a Jew hater. That is very weak behavior. They are very easily offended. I am sorry, but really men are not easily offended by silly stuff like this. Water off a ducks back. Live and let live. The holocaust was a terrible thing. It was heinous. It was foul. But, it happens a long time ago. A few young Thais using the swastika is not going to encourage another holocaust.

This topic is not about the swastika. It about nazi imagery. Go back to the first post, enlarge the image and then come back and tell me that as a Jew you see nothing wrong with it.

Would you paint your bike or car with hitler next to a swastika? What would your Jewish family and friends think if you did that? Be honest.

The nazi sympathizers have even got you, a Jew, on their side by making this topic about something else; a symbol used in other places for other reasons. We know the swastika wasn't invented by Hitler, but next to his face it means one thing; nazi evil.

[CMHomeboy78]

There is no active neo-Nazi movement in Thailand.

Hitler's face and Nazi symbols are used as macho decorations, they don't represent a political party, overt or covert here.

That is the reality in Thailand.

If you were here in the late '70s you will remember the ubiquitous face of Che Guevara in Alberto Korda's famous 'Guerrillero Heroico'. The stickers were everywhere, even on the mudflaps of ten-wheelers. At that time, Communist insurgents controlled large parts of the North and Northeast. Most of the Lao and Cambodian border regions were no-go areas; they were just outside of Nan and as close to Chiang Mai as Samoeng.

The face and ideology represented a clear and present danger to the established order in those days.

No such thing exists now... it's just radical chic.

Thank you. The swastika, or a symbol that is inverted, but similar, was used for thousands of years by the Hindus, prior to Tiny Adolf co-opting it, as a symbol of his murderous regime. So, many do not consider it offensive. The Thais who use it are not neo nazis, nor are they haters. They are just doing it as something that is hip or cool. Nothing is meant by it. Frankly, I find it more offensive, when thin skinned westerners get huffy over this, than the use of the symbol itself. Get over yourself. Who cares? It is just a symbol. I think the intent is often more important than the symbol. I am Jewish, and find a lot of Jews to be very, very thin skinned. About symbols, criticism of Israeli policy, etc. No room for discussion. No room for criticism, or I am labeled a Jew hater. That is very weak behavior. They are very easily offended. I am sorry, but really men are not easily offended by silly stuff like this. Water off a ducks back. Live and let live. The holocaust was a terrible thing. It was heinous. It was foul. But, it happens a long time ago. A few young Thais using the swastika is not going to encourage another holocaust.

This topic is not about the swastika. It about nazi imagery. Go back to the first post, enlarge the image and then come back and tell me that as a Jew you see nothing wrong with it.

Would you paint your bike or car with hitler next to a swastika? What would your Jewish family and friends think if you did that? Be honest.

The nazi sympathizers have even got you, a Jew, on their side by making this topic about something else; a symbol used in other places for other reasons. We know the swastika wasn't invented by Hitler, but next to his face it means one thing; nazi evil.

Which members are you accusing of being "nazi sympathizers" ?

Have the courage of your convictions and name them.

Am I on your list? If so, come out and say it. I would counter by telling you that is a damned lie.

My father was in the US Army Air Corps during WWII, and his father, my grandfather, was a Lt. Colonel and aide-de-camp to Gen.George C. Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials.

I have an interest in history that makes me want to learn about all the different aspects of it; no matter how repulsive some of them may be.

Edited December 27, 2014 by CMHomeboy78

[northernjohn]

There is no active neo-Nazi movement in Thailand.

Hitler's face and Nazi symbols are used as macho decorations, they don't represent a political party, overt or covert here.

That is the reality in Thailand.

If you were here in the late '70s you will remember the ubiquitous face of Che Guevara in Alberto Korda's famous 'Guerrillero Heroico'. The stickers were everywhere, even on the mudflaps of ten-wheelers. At that time, Communist insurgents controlled large parts of the North and Northeast. Most of the Lao and Cambodian border regions were no-go areas; they were just outside of Nan and as close to Chiang Mai as Samoeng.

The face and ideology represented a clear and present danger to the established order in those days.

No such thing exists now... it's just radical chic.

Thank you. The swastika, or a symbol that is inverted, but similar, was used for thousands of years by the Hindus, prior to Tiny Adolf co-opting it, as a symbol of his murderous regime. So, many do not consider it offensive. The Thais who use it are not neo nazis, nor are they haters. They are just doing it as something that is hip or cool. Nothing is meant by it. Frankly, I find it more offensive, when thin skinned westerners get huffy over this, than the use of the symbol itself. Get over yourself. Who cares? It is just a symbol. I think the intent is often more important than the symbol. I am Jewish, and find a lot of Jews to be very, very thin skinned. About symbols, criticism of Israeli policy, etc. No room for discussion. No room for criticism, or I am labeled a Jew hater. That is very weak behavior. They are very easily offended. I am sorry, but really men are not easily offended by silly stuff like this. Water off a ducks back. Live and let live. The holocaust was a terrible thing. It was heinous. It was foul. But, it happens a long time ago. A few young Thais using the swastika is not going to encourage another holocaust.

This topic is not about the swastika. It about nazi imagery. Go back to the first post, enlarge the image and then come back and tell me that as a Jew you see nothing wrong with it.

Would you paint your bike or car with hitler next to a swastika? What would your Jewish family and friends think if you did that? Be honest.

The nazi sympathizers have even got you, a Jew, on their side by making this topic about something else; a symbol used in other places for other reasons. We know the swastika wasn't invented by Hitler, but next to his face it means one thing; nazi evil.

Which members are you accusing of being "nazi sympathizers" ?

Have the courage of your convictions and name them.

Am I on your list? If so, come out and say it. I would counter by telling you that is a damned lie.

My father was in the US Army Air Corps during WWII, and his father, my grandfather, was a Lt. Colonel and aide-de-camp to Gen.George C. Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials.

I have an interest in history that makes me want to learn about all the different aspects of it; no matter how repulsive some of them may be.

Actually there are people out there so closed minded that if they discovered Hitler ate eggs they would never eat eggs. Not worthy the effort. There are so many different things in the world people can find offensive that they just aren't worth the effort. Now it would be a different story in my opinion if they were tied in with some of the skin head groups in America. Don't know about other countries but those are groups that use the symbols to glorify the Nazis. Them I object to. Being an American from the North I could object to the Dixie flag a symbol of a war that killed more Americans than any other war but I don't. The list is endless of symbols we can object to that have nothing to do with are life's today. My father was a Captain in the Army during the second world war. It has nothing to do with my life today. By the way has Japan changed their flag or is it still the one they had in the second world war. I really don't know. If it is should I get offended. Is China offended by it?

[junglechef]

We are only a product of our ancestors and if we don't give any importance to that or any history do you think we would be better people or the world would be a better place? One can live with blinders on and say "It has nothing to do with my life today" so let's just make the same mistakes that learning history could protect us from and might as well just drink another beer in front of the tv. As a Jew I take offense and I respect other's by being sensitive to their history. Next time your neighbor's parent dies would you just say "I don't care it doesn't effect my life" to them at the funeral? People are posting a lot of nonsense at this point, you can say that's just my opinion and I have the right too it but probably not if your being honest with yourself and us.

Edited December 27, 2014 by junglechef

[thailiketoo]

We are only a product of our ancestors and if we don't give any importance to that or any history do you think we would be better people or the world would be a better place? One can live with blinders on and say "It has nothing to do with my life today" so let's just make the same mistakes that learning history could protect us from and might as well just drink another beer in front of the tv. As a Jew I take offense and I respect other's by being sensitive to their history. Next time your neighbor's parent dies would you just say "I don't care it doesn't effect my life" to them at the funeral? People are posting a lot of nonsense at this point, you can say that's just my opinion and I have the right too it but probably not if your being honest with yourself and us.

Asia has 4.3 billion people, frankly, your history is not important in the overall scope of things.

Tabinshwehti's war of the Tongoo dynasty is taught in grade school in Thailand not WWII.

How much to you know about Tabinshwehti? I bet not as much as the average Thai 12 year old.

Did you ever question if you were sensitive enough to their history?

I believe the, "Four Pest Campaign" killed 10 times more people than the concentration camps and it killed them in Asia and that is relevant to Thailand don't you think?

So tell me without looking at Wiki do you know anything about Tabinshwehti or the Four Pest Campaign?

And if you do at what age did you learn? Did you study it in high school? Remember now the Four Pest Campaign dwarfs anything the Nazi's did....

Edited December 27, 2014 by thailiketoo

[mat999]

"Which members are you accusing of being "nazi sympathizers" ?

Have the courage of your convictions and name them." Quote from Homeboy78 (done this way to save space)

I am not accusing anyone specifically. Nor am I going through 7 pages to inspect everyone. If anyone likes the first image of hiter and a swastika, then decides to defend it, they will know for themselves.

[junglechef]

I don't pretend to be knowledgeable of Thai history and I've post earlier I'm pretty uneducated in my own nation's US history. But I am not saying that it is ok to be insensitive. I just asked my two Thai son's, age 10 and 12 and they also have not heard of Tabinshwehti and I will repeat that people are posting nonsense and if you really thought a Thai child knew about him I would include you in my statement. Never said Hitler was important here but promoting not caring about others because it isn't important to oneself is selfish and lacking in moral fiber.

p.s. I have bought books on Thai history but it's not a subject that is easily available to learn about in English (hope I'm not insensitive not knowing how to read the language even though I have made an effort and attended Thai language classes)

Edited December 27, 2014 by junglechef

[thailiketoo]

I don't pretend to be knowledgeable of Thai history and I've post earlier I'm pretty uneducated in my own nation's US history. But I am not saying that it is ok to be insensitive. I just asked my two Thai son's, age 10 and 12 and they also have not heard of Tabinshwehti and I will repeat that people are posting nonsense and if you really thought a Thai child knew about him I would include you in my statement. Never said Hitler was important here but promoting not caring about others because it isn't important to oneself is selfish and lacking in moral fiber.

p.s. I have bought books on Thai history but it's not a subject that is easily available to learn about in English (hope I'm not insensitive not knowing how to read the language even though I have made an effort and attended Thai language classes)

You take offense for doing the same thing you admit you are guilty of.

You are really insulting by saying, "promoting not caring about others because it isn't important to oneself is selfish and lacking in moral fiber."

The kids in Asia don't have a clue about WWII just like you don't have a clue about "the Four Pest Campaign" that killed ten times what the death camps killed.

Because you don't know about it does not mean your are promoting it; it means that you don't have a very good education. Sorry to say most Thais don't have a very good education.

At what age should children in Asia be taught about WWII in Europe? At what age should children in Europe be taught about the Ayutthaya Burmese wars?

[Mapguy]

Look you wanted to get all lecture'y while giving a dumb wrong fact.. Thailand was invaded by the Japanese.. Thailand was occupied.. Thailand was involved in WWII and Thailand even declared war against the allied powers and was involved in the Burma campaigns and malay conflicts. Your wrong.

And once again.. I keep saying the burden of the problem is not on the Thais who are going to the school.. Or even normal people acting out of ignorance, even tho it is ignorant (surely your not suggesting ignorance is a good thing ??) its on the educators who failed to understand what they were allowing to happen, in a private catholic school, which has an international english language program, was offensive. They received terrible international press and condemnation, and rightfully so.

I dont think its too much to expect, a lack of ignorance, in a educator or an faculty of education. Its pretty much the definition of those things that they should not be ignorant.

Well, LivinLOS, there are a lot of facts missing, and I think you are too harsh. I disagree with your knowledge and interpretation of some things. But the followig is not to pick on you.

A couple of points.

Peoples' common perception of the parade is not complete (as generally happens over time or because there was only some "media knowledge" of the event. As it happened, the theme of that particular group was a secret from others as was the theme of every other group in the parade. (The parade was not a Nuremburg rally, but an annual "dress up" event and contest in which "surprise" was a fun ingredient.

Had some teachers known about it, I agree that it might not have been recognized as so "insulting." At the same time, I rather doubt many parents (normally quite well-healed if not well-educated of the children at that school) would have understood the problem. Yes, that is ignorance, but too harsh a judgment in my view of the children, the parents and the teachers of the school or of Thai educators, not many of whom have much international experience and certainly, except for very, very few, have studied Western history at a level of understanding that would cause most people to be alarmed.

More troubling, perhaps is the "ethnocentric" nature of so many Westerners who post on this site, many, unfortunately not having much of a clue about genocide in (too many) other places. By the way, the definition of "genocide" is worth knowing:

Genocide is the systematic destruction of all or a significant part of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group. Well-known examples of genocide include the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, and more recently the Rwandan genocide.

What is perhaps limiting about this definition is what happened in Cambodia's "killing fields," which might be termed an "ideological" genocide. Why is this important i terms of this discussion? Well, Thais know about it and saved quite a number of people from death. Thailand absorbed huge numbers of refugees. Perhaps a knowledge and understanding of recent Thai history will mitigate cheap shots about a Western event that happened in the late 1930s - early 1940s. (By the way, if you are really interested in how the Nazis did it, then there is a reference endorsed by Israel. The author was interviewed for Shoah. Viewing the film and reading the book I leave to you. The film is available in Chiang Mai.

More pertinent to what is going on today --- and not 75-80 years ago --- is the recent release of the UN report on North Korea. I suppose you can read it, but it is lengthy. There is an interview with the Australian jurist who chaired the investigation on "Talking to Aljazerra." A thoughtful and profound man. I leave you to find it.

All very sad, of course.

[LivinLOS]

Tabinshwehti's war of the Tongoo dynasty is taught in grade school in Thailand not WWII.

How much to you know about Tabinshwehti? I bet not as much as the average Thai 12 year old.

Did you ever question if you were sensitive enough to their history?

I believe the, "Four Pest Campaign" killed 10 times more people than the concentration camps and it killed them in Asia and that is relevant to Thailand don't you think?

So tell me without looking at Wiki do you know anything about Tabinshwehti or the Four Pest Campaign?

And if you do at what age did you learn? Did you study it in high school? Remember now the Four Pest Campaign dwarfs anything the Nazi's did....

I call bullshit.. Theres 6 Thais here ranging in age from high school kids, young adults to older Thais in their 50s.. Not one of them knew anything about this..

If its taught.. they may not be doing much of a job of it..

[LivinLOS]

Well, LivinLOS, there are a lot of facts missing, and I think you are too harsh. I disagree with your knowledge and interpretation of some things. But the followig is not to pick on you.

A couple of points.

Peoples' common perception of the parade is not complete (as generally happens over time or because there was only some "media knowledge" of the event. As it happened, the theme of that particular group was a secret from others as was the theme of every other group in the parade. (The parade was not a Nuremburg rally, but an annual "dress up" event and contest in which "surprise" was a fun ingredient.

Had some teachers known about it, I agree that it might not have been recognized as so "insulting." At the same time, I rather doubt many parents (normally quite well-healed if not well-educated of the children at that school) would have understood the problem. Yes, that is ignorance, but too harsh a judgment in my view of the children, the parents and the teachers of the school or of Thai educators, not many of whom have much international experience and certainly, except for very, very few, have studied Western history at a level of understanding that would cause most people to be alarmed.

Ahh yes the we didnt know defense.. They organised all those uniforms.. The SS guards with machine guns.. The Hitler.. The entire parade.. the huge signs.. The giant flags..

They did all this in secret.. Not an adult had a clue.. They climbed the buildings and hung the flags in the dead of night.. Entirely without anyone in authority being aware of it at all.. And when it was time for the show, it was all revealed at the last second.. a total shock..

Get real.

[thailiketoo]

Tabinshwehti's war of the Tongoo dynasty is taught in grade school in Thailand not WWII.

How much to you know about Tabinshwehti? I bet not as much as the average Thai 12 year old.

Did you ever question if you were sensitive enough to their history?

I believe the, "Four Pest Campaign" killed 10 times more people than the concentration camps and it killed them in Asia and that is relevant to Thailand don't you think?

So tell me without looking at Wiki do you know anything about Tabinshwehti or the Four Pest Campaign?

And if you do at what age did you learn? Did you study it in high school? Remember now the Four Pest Campaign dwarfs anything the Nazi's did....

I call bullshit.. Theres 6 Thais here ranging in age from high school kids, young adults to older Thais in their 50s.. Not one of them knew anything about this..

If its taught.. they may not be doing much of a job of it..

None of them know anything about The Burmese Siam wars? BS. I taught too long in Thailand to be impressed by an INTERNET warrior.

You know nothing about Asian history and Asian people know nothing about your history. Get over it. You and your culture are not important in Asia. The kids are copying something they saw on line and in the hip stores they have no idea what it means. Same as you pointing at things with your feet.

Edited December 27, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Mapguy]

Well, LivinLOS, there are a lot of facts missing, and I think you are too harsh. I disagree with your knowledge and interpretation of some things. But the followig is not to pick on you.

A couple of points.

Peoples' common perception of the parade is not complete (as generally happens over time or because there was only some "media knowledge" of the event. As it happened, the theme of that particular group was a secret from others as was the theme of every other group in the parade. (The parade was not a Nuremburg rally, but an annual "dress up" event and contest in which "surprise" was a fun ingredient.

Had some teachers known about it, I agree that it might not have been recognized as so "insulting." At the same time, I rather doubt many parents (normally quite well-healed if not well-educated of the children at that school) would have understood the problem. Yes, that is ignorance, but too harsh a judgment in my view of the children, the parents and the teachers of the school or of Thai educators, not many of whom have much international experience and certainly, except for very, very few, have studied Western history at a level of understanding that would cause most people to be alarmed.

Ahh yes the we didnt know defense.. They organised all those uniforms.. The SS guards with machine guns.. The Hitler.. The entire parade.. the huge signs.. The giant flags..

They did all this in secret.. Not an adult had a clue.. They climbed the buildings and hung the flags in the dead of night.. Entirely without anyone in authority being aware of it at all.. And when it was time for the show, it was all revealed at the last second.. a total shock..

Get real.

I think that I am being quite realistic and do not offer some spurious defense. Without repeating the whole post (as above) here is one part in immediate response:

Had some teachers known about it, I agree that it might not have been recognized as so "insulting." At the same time, I rather doubt many parents (normally quite well-healed if not well-educated of the children at that school) would have understood the problem. Yes, that is ignorance, but too harsh a judgment in my view of the children, the parents and the teachers of the school or of Thai educators, not many of whom have much international experience and certainly, except for very, very few, have studied Western history at a level of understanding that would cause most people to be alarmed.

Otherwise, I am puzzled why you (and a few others) are so vociferous. Or bitter? Why so? What does that accomplish? I don't expect to you to knock on the school head's door and demand to teach two hours (or whatever) about the Jewish Holocaust, but the vehemence of your (and some other) posts seems way over the top. Perhaps you are Jewish. Perhaps you lost some family in the Holocaust, which was awful and a difficult thing to have as part of your personal ethnic heritage. You are not the only one, and there are others with that family or religious heritage with more measured responses.

Better to turn to the present. I refer you once again to the situation, for example, in North Korea, as I did above.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Mapguy

[northernjohn]

Well got to thinking about it and I learned about the Nazis in school in the 50s. to be honest with you there wasn't a lot to learn. Maybe a chapter. Perhaps they had classes in some schools that went in to them but for the most part I had world history and it did not give out all the details we here now. It was how ever presented in a way so as to make you remember it.

My friend went to school in Canada and back then they were using U S history books so he didn't learn a lot about it either. To this day all I know is 6,000,000 Jewish people were killed. How many more innocent people were killed? How many innocent Germans were killed? I know Genghis Khan killed 1/4 of the earth's population. That could have affected my ancestry. I came along shortly after WW2 began so that did not affect my ancestry. That is more important to me than what the Nazi symbol or flag was.

The atrocities Hitler committed are far more important to me than his symbol or flag. I think some people just use them to hang onto hatred now that the man is dead and most of his conspirators.

I will never forget what he did but I will eventually forget his flag (all ready have) and possibly the swastika. But I doubt that as it is far more than just a Nazi thing. In fact I might just Google it and see what all there is to it over the centuries.

Edit

In "The Swastika," Folklore, Vol. 55, No. 4 (Dec., 1944), pp. 167-168, W. G. V. Balchin says the word swastika is of Sanskrit origin and the symbol is one of good luck or a charm or a religious symbol (the last, among the Jains and Buddhists) that goes back to at least the Bronze Age. It appears in various parts of the ancient and modern world. This article mentions Christians did, indeed, consider the swastika for their symbol.

that is just part of it's history. There is a lot more to it than some of the posters here would have us believe. some of it on the negative side.

Edited December 27, 2014 by northernjohn

[Mapguy]

Millions of Roma, gays and miscellaneous others were also summarily dispensed with. I don't know how many Genhis Khan annihilated, but he was a nasty fellow. For a close competitor in Asia, also check out Timor the Great memorialized as Tamerlane. Stalin, if I remember correctly, was Georgian. Think of the millions of Ukranians he dispensed with through starvation or displacement. Do numbers count, or just wickedness?

Need we get into the Crusades and the slaughter of Constantinople, et cetera. Or the efforts to "assimilate" the aborigine in Australia or the "Christian" Americans with the same sentiment about American indians or their slaughter at Wounded Knee or elsewhere. Above I have already mentioned the killing fields of Cambodia.

History is unfortunately replete with such tragedies. How evil man can be needs to be remembered, but --- to return to the OP's concern about "Nazi chic" --- I still believe that the criticism on this thread is too often superficial and, in itself, rather hateful rather than helpful.

What needs to be taught in schools, and how? Those are very serious questions not answered easily or, in the case of the Jewish Holocaust, exclusively.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Mapguy

[hard124get]

That photo in the original post is evil, plain and simple. The owner of the bike should be educated about it or locked up if he really is a nazi. Lets face it, if he is going to the trouble of customizing a motorbike he will want the images to have meaning so he will do his homework. So I would assume he is a nazi and I would be offended seeing that.

Unless he is a raving homosexual, then it is kind of OK because it is done in a camp, ironic way, but there are no clues that this is the case on the bike. I wouldn't do anything but I know at least one Jew that would attack him or at least break the bike.

It is not fashion it is a hate crime.

So, as a visitor to this man's country, you would be offended..... er... SO WHAT !

[WinnieTheKhwai]

That photo in the original post is evil, plain and simple. The owner of the bike should be educated about it or locked up if he really is a nazi. Lets face it, if he is going to the trouble of customizing a motorbike he will want the images to have meaning so he will do his homework. So I would assume he is a nazi and I would be offended seeing that.

Unless he is a raving homosexual, then it is kind of OK because it is done in a camp, ironic way, but there are no clues that this is the case on the bike. I wouldn't do anything but I know at least one Jew that would attack him or at least break the bike.

It is not fashion it is a hate crime.

So, as a visitor to this man's country, you would be offended..... er... SO WHAT !

Dude posted that at 3:30am.. Not only is he not offended, he probably forgot ever posting it.

[mat999]

That photo in the original post is evil, plain and simple. The owner of the bike should be educated about it or locked up if he really is a nazi. Lets face it, if he is going to the trouble of customizing a motorbike he will want the images to have meaning so he will do his homework. So I would assume he is a nazi and I would be offended seeing that.

Unless he is a raving homosexual, then it is kind of OK because it is done in a camp, ironic way, but there are no clues that this is the case on the bike. I wouldn't do anything but I know at least one Jew that would attack him or at least break the bike.

It is not fashion it is a hate crime.

So, as a visitor to this man's country, you would be offended..... er... SO WHAT !

Dude posted that at 3:30am.. Not only is he not offended, he probably forgot ever posting it.

I stick by what I said, driving around with hitler on your bike next to a swastika is offensive. If you don't agree fine. I said he should be educated about it, then I said if he really is a nazi he should be locked up for spreading nazi propaganda, something which you would get locked up for in Germany. If you think it is cool for nazis to promote their cause then you are supporting them.

You are either with them or against them.

Quote from wisegeek, "the post-war German law codes prohibit the display of a swastika in any form or fashion, even if used satirically or as part of an anti-Nazi political statement. "

[CMBob]

I stick by what I said, driving around with hitler on your bike next to a swastika is offensive. If you don't agree fine.

Some keep missing the point others have made. It's not offensive in general (all by itself) but is offensive to many (including yourself, obviously, and even to me to some degree) who have at least a reasonable understanding of what Hitler and the Nazis preached and did; however, to most Thais, it's not offensive at all and one can hardly blame them for not being offended when they haven't been taught anything or much at all about the second world war.

Another issue is whether the Thais ought to have been taught about the history of the biggest world war....including their own involvement (minimal or not) therein. I say "most definitely" but others (rather dumbfounding to me) have posted that they don't think it's at all relevant for Thais to know anything about that history.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I stick by what I said, driving around with hitler on your bike next to a swastika is offensive. If you don't agree fine. I said he should be educated about it, then I said if he really is a nazi he should be locked up for spreading nazi propaganda, something which you would get locked up for in Germany. If you think it is cool for nazis to promote their cause then you are supporting them.

You are either with them or against them.

Quote from wisegeek, "the post-war German law codes prohibit the display of a swastika in any form or fashion, even if used satirically or as part of an anti-Nazi political statement. "

Right.. but understandable as Germany's laws are within Germany, they are not very relevant outside of Germany. And especially not outside of the Western world.

And the other way around, of course; in Germany you could make a Hunger Games salute and not be locked up, for example.

Personally I object to actual and current fascism and rabid nationalism but don't get instantly offended when someone misguidedly/ignorantly displays imagery related to historical fascism without any intention of advocating the ideology. If I did I could make a career out of being offended in Asia.

I might raise an eyebrow, much like I do with anything else that's quirky/awkward/over the top/politically incorrect in Asia. Osama bin Laden T-shirts anyone..?

Edited December 28, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai

[CMHomeboy78]

I stick by what I said, driving around with hitler on your bike next to a swastika is offensive. If you don't agree fine.

Some keep missing the point others have made. It's not offensive in general (all by itself) but is offensive to many (including yourself, obviously, and even to me to some degree) who have at least a reasonable understanding of what Hitler and the Nazis preached and did; however, to most Thais, it's not offensive at all and one can hardly blame them for not being offended when they haven't been taught anything or much at all about the second world war.

Another issue is whether the Thais ought to have been taught about the history of the biggest world war....including their own involvement (minimal or not) therein. I say "most definitely" but others (rather dumbfounding to me) have posted that they don't think it's at all relevant for Thais to know anything about that history.

They keep "...missing the point..." because they can only see and commiserate with the atrocities that were inflicted upon their own race/ethnic group/nationality.

They may give compassionate lip service to what befell others, but in their hearts they really don't give a tinker's damn.

It's willful ignorance of the most offensive kind. History is full of abominable exterminations and depredations. Our ancestors have all suffered at one time or another.

Do the descendents of Hitler's victims think they're unique?

[LivinLOS]

Some keep missing the point others have made. It's not offensive in general (all by itself) but is offensive to many (including yourself, obviously, and even to me to some degree) who have at least a reasonable understanding of what Hitler and the Nazis preached and did;

And for the N'th time..

Ignorance is sort of fogiveable.. Tho preferable would be for them to get the education..

Ignorance on the part of educators.. Is far more of a problem.. Teachers, in an english language catholic school should know far better.

[LivinLOS]

It's willful ignorance of the most offensive kind. History is full of abominable exterminations and depredations. Our ancestors have all suffered at one time or another.

Do the descendents of Hitler's victims think they're unique?

Yet there is little in contemporary history that compares..

Mao and pol pot had an idea they could improve peoples lives by their misguided actions.. People died on mass, but in events more accidents of social mismanagement. Even Stalin probably fits into that mold.. And yes these are terrible events also, and should not in any way be celebrated or used for play acting and amusement.

Wars happen, its conflict of cultures..

But outright genocide, purported across all levels of society, religion, race, sexuality, etc.. Wiping out huge percentages Jews, Roma and Gypsies, the mentally and physically handicapped, homosexuals, etc etc.. And to do so in such a systemic, organized way.. This organized outright slaughter of so many millions simply because of a belief of racial superiority..

Can you name another in contemporary history ?? Rwanda slightly fits the bill, but again goes much more to a tribal conflict / war in the region than this simply exterminating those they felt untermench..

Given its probably the primary example in living memory.. I feel history teachers and educators should be keenly aware of it.. And sensitive to it.. Globally..

Edited December 28, 2014 by LivinLOS

[Awk]

Some keep missing the point others have made. It's not offensive in general (all by itself) but is offensive to many (including yourself, obviously, and even to me to some degree) who have at least a reasonable understanding of what Hitler and the Nazis preached and did;

And for the N'th time..

Ignorance is sort of fogiveable.. Tho preferable would be for them to get the education..

Ignorance on the part of educators.. Is far more of a problem.. Teachers, in an english language catholic school should know far better.

Indeed, teachers should obviously know better. How else can they teach? With teachers as ignorant as those at the Chiang Mai Sacred Heart school have shown themselves to be, I would not trust them to learn my child what two plus two equals. I can only wonder where they found such bums. A parade like they did is so far out there in "how stupid can you get?"-lalaland it is difficult to believe.

There is however not much point in being offended by the motorcycle sticker in OP I think. In all likelihood the motorcycle owners teachers were ignorant on the subject and did not teach it, so why should he as a student know any better, unless he had a special interest in history? I'm sure he just thought the sticker looked cool, and one can see his point. If one can ignore what the picture depicts, it does look cool.

If it was a friend of mine, I'd show him some videos and pictures, and educate him a little on the meaning of the symbols on the sticker. Any person of normal intelligence would then remove the sticker himself. Offending through ignorance is not a serious crime in my book, unless it is your job to not be ignorant, of course.