Thaksin in the list of those hunted for lese majeste and other offences

[rubl]

thaksin's culpability in the thousands of murders that occured during his "war on drugs" campaign would be my number one reason for apprehending him

Yes because there is no one worse or that equals him right?

Exactly right. With a straight face and no double meanings implied or intended!!!!!

Exactly right. With a straight face and no double meanings implied or intended!!!!!........ and an extreme level of ignorance of the relevant facts

More an extreme level of singlemindedness which makes it easy to some to ignore what is less convenient.

So, Thaksin on the list. No real surprise, in 2006 he already just continued without the necessary blessing. In 2010 he had his mob activated around the time a court decided on his confiscated billions and with his sister he just ruled his country as he saw fit. Not many countries where that would be tolerated.

[rubl]

Numbers were worse before Thaksin. Shows you how greedy the elites are that 72% of the money going to less than 17% of the population is such an improvement that making the change has elevated Thaksin to a god like status across the majority of the nation. Any sane person looking at the above graph realizes that things can't go on as they have been in this nation - change is inevitable.

Money being invested in Bangkok Area is not the same as money going to people. Ask those working in London.

[whybother]

And you've got the figures for 2001 - 2005?

Numbers were worse before Thaksin. Shows you how greedy the elites are that 72% of the money going to less than 17% of the population is such an improvement that making the change has elevated Thaksin to a god like status across the majority of the nation. Any sane person looking at the above graph realizes that things can't go on as they have been in this nation - change is inevitable.

What were the numbers during Thaksin's time?

[metisdead]

Posts commenting on moderation have been removed. No matter how many times references to the NOTICE TO MEMBERS POSTING IN THAILAND NEWS have been posting, some members seem to be unwilling to follow these guidelines. Suspensions have been issued and more may follow.

I really do not think this topic is about the GDP figures under Thaksin, the topic is about Thaksin in the list of those hunted for lese majeste and other offences.

[whybother]

<snip>

I really do not think this topic is about the GDP figures under Thaksin, the topic is about Thaksin in the list of those hunted for lese majeste and other offences.

When posters say how much of a guru Thaksin was, it would be good to see the evidence for it.

[jayboy]

OK , i see your point-

Regards the undeniable growth under Thaksin

No wonder they are rewriting history books.

But the truth is the man improved Thailand immensely -

Growth of up to 7%

Whats going on now now is their business .

Its pointless to expect a western nation to sign on to their Hunt for him.

Especially given some countries like Australia don't even permit the Junta themselves on their soil.

America , and UK , western Europe , none seem remotely interested

After the 1997 Thai disease, a few years of Chuan government led austerity, we had Thaksin blessed with a world wide boom and the good measures of his predecessor.

Anyway, good at least Australia shows the world, a world which doesn't really seem interested though.

On the contrary - seems they do

You say the world doesn't seem interested in the Australian Tough stance?

So can you answer what Western country your beloved general thinks was going through with extradition of LM cases and anti - Government protests (movements) he claims they won't permit? *(when in fact they all do)

As his recent overseas trip showed

France , Italy , Germany , New Zealand , UK < United States?

In at least two other threads he claims western countries assurances ?

Even here its laughable that he thinks Thaksin is going to give a hoot about what is just same old non sense.

The reality is Western countries are interested in not caving into this Military demands /requests.

If so name one?

You twist things a wee bit, my dear Freddy.

The 'tough' stance of Australia doesn't seem to have been followed by other countries. That doesn't mean other countries will immediately handover those within their borders who are accused in Thailand of LM. Mind you as I wrote before the label LM seems to cover many different cases. Some of those cases may be criminal in other countries as well. In that case, and assuming the Thai government can provide sufficient information and can show the death penalty isn't a possible sentence in those cases, countries could be induced to hand over the accused. Won't happen soon though, even in 'clear' cases some have spent sufficient time in countries with long procedures to even pass the statute of limitation.

As for the remarks on cooperating in 'muzzling' opponents, again that depends. Western countries (and Australia) actively monitor social media and anything you write can and will be used against you if a government feels it's necessary.

BTW interesting site https://amiunique.org

You are talking gibberish.

The position of Australia, though rather more robust, is exactly the same as of all Western countries and Japan.There will be no high level government visits.The regime is disappproved of. All Western countries call for early elections and the restoration of democracy.The regime can of course find comfort in totalitarian states such as China, Putin's Russia and ASEAN - counties with the morality of an earwig.

Your comments on extradition are also nonsense.Of course countries with extradition treaties with Thailand will honour them if criteria are fulfilled - murder cases etc.There will however be no extradition of any Thais where there there is political motivation.As for LM it is not an offence in the countries under discussion (one or two have something similar on statute book but never enforced), so that aspect is irrelevant.THe charge is not taken seriously and in any case why would Western governments entertain any such ludicrous requests from a pariah state?

As for Thaksin the mantra he is guilty of LM is an old chestnut of the yellow mob and their shadowy backers.It has long been disproven and in fact he is a strong royalist like most Thais.The invented charge is necessary because the unelected elites and their middle class acolytes like to claim legitimacy this way.In fact there's a good case they should be charged with LM due to the damage they have inflicted.

The Thai Prime Minister can't even get in the door of civilised countries.He would give his right arm for one hundredth of the access and goodwill that Yingluck enjoyed.Thai government ministers are not welcome in the countries concerned though official business may take place.Thailand is considered a friendly country and there is no problem with keeping up a working relationaship.The Thai regime itself is considered to be the problem not its opponents.

[rubl]

You are talking gibberish.

The position of Australia, though rather more robust, is exactly the same as of all Western countries and Japan.There will be no high level government visits.The regime is disappproved of. All Western countries call for early elections and the restoration of democracy.The regime can of course find comfort in totalitarian states such as China, Putin's Russia and ASEAN - counties with the morality of an earwig.

Your comments on extradition are also nonsense.Of course countries with extradition treaties with Thailand will honour them if criteria are fulfilled - murder cases etc.There will however be no extradition of any Thais where there there is political motivation.As for LM it is not an offence in the countries under discussion (one or two have something similar on statute book but never enforced), so that aspect is irrelevant.THe charge is not taken seriously and in any case why would Western governments entertain any such ludicrous requests from a pariah state?

As for Thaksin the mantra he is guilty of LM is an old chestnut of the yellow mob and their shadowy backers.It has long been disproven and in fact he is a strong royalist like most Thais.The invented charge is necessary because the unelected elites and their middle class acolytes like to claim legitimacy this way.In fact there's a good case they should be charged with LM due to the damage they have inflicted.

The Thai Prime Minister can't even get in the door of civilised countries.He would give his right arm for one hundredth of the access and goodwill that Yingluck enjoyed.Thai government ministers are not welcome in the countries concerned though official business may take place.Thailand is considered a friendly country and there is no problem with keeping up a working relationaship.The Thai regime itself is considered to be the problem not its opponents.

It would seem all you disagree you feel a need to label as gibberish, or nonsense. It would seem you try to mask your own insecurity with such blustering.

Furthermore you still talk in a denigrating way with your 'mob', 'pariah state'. You also like to ignore the truth and/or twist it.

Thaksin is not a royalist. If he were you would need to throw him in with the 'yellow mob' or some 'fascists', or so.

The charge is simply based on his involvement in the 2010 riots. Other charges still wait for his return.

PM Prayut was in Europe if I remember correctly, but then those countries are hardly civilised, now are they? Didn't we have some cabinet members at the UN even? As for 'not welcome, but official business taking place', you condemn a few countries as hypocritical. Certainly if a country like Britain would deal with the opponents of the current Thai government, they would have no problems if other countries deal with the Scottish Independence party?

[jayboy]

It would seem all you disagree you feel a need to label as gibberish, or nonsense. It would seem you try to mask your own insecurity with such blustering.

Furthermore you still talk in a denigrating way with your 'mob', 'pariah state'. You also like to ignore the truth and/or twist it.

Thaksin is not a royalist. If he were you would need to throw him in with the 'yellow mob' or some 'fascists', or so.

The charge is simply based on his involvement in the 2010 riots. Other charges still wait for his return.

PM Prayut was in Europe if I remember correctly, but then those countries are hardly civilised, now are they? Didn't we have some cabinet members at the UN even? As for 'not welcome, but official business taking place', you condemn a few countries as hypocritical. Certainly if a country like Britain would deal with the opponents of the current Thai government, they would have no problems if other countries deal with the Scottish Independence party?

If you persist in posting nonsense, you should not be surprised if your absurdities are pointed out.

If leaders of a country are not welcome for official meetings with leaders of civilised countries, how would you describe it? I accept "pariah state" may be too harsh.I'm open to suggestions.

If you believe accosting foreign leaders at international meetings and being photographed picking one's nose at the back of a group photo is high level diplomacy so be it.

Nobody is suggesting Thailand isn't regarded as a friendly country:It's the leadership that's the problem.There will be business as usual below that level.

You simply repeat the mantra about Thaksin.It's more nonsense and repeating it doesn't make it less so.I understand why the anti democrats say so - but it's still bilge.A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion.

Your comments on Scotland suggest gross ignorance, once again.

[rubl]

It would seem all you disagree you feel a need to label as gibberish, or nonsense. It would seem you try to mask your own insecurity with such blustering.

Furthermore you still talk in a denigrating way with your 'mob', 'pariah state'. You also like to ignore the truth and/or twist it.

Thaksin is not a royalist. If he were you would need to throw him in with the 'yellow mob' or some 'fascists', or so.

The charge is simply based on his involvement in the 2010 riots. Other charges still wait for his return.

PM Prayut was in Europe if I remember correctly, but then those countries are hardly civilised, now are they? Didn't we have some cabinet members at the UN even? As for 'not welcome, but official business taking place', you condemn a few countries as hypocritical. Certainly if a country like Britain would deal with the opponents of the current Thai government, they would have no problems if other countries deal with the Scottish Independence party?

If you persist in posting nonsense, you should not be surprised if your absurdities are pointed out.

If leaders of a country are not welcome for official meetings with leaders of civilised countries, how would you describe it? I accept "pariah state" may be too harsh.I'm open to suggestions.

If you believe accosting foreign leaders at international meetings and being photographed picking one's nose at the back of a group photo is high level diplomacy so be it.

Nobody is suggesting Thailand isn't regarded as a friendly country:It's the leadership that's the problem.There will be business as usual below that level.

You simply repeat the mantra about Thaksin.It's more nonsense and repeating it doesn't make it less so.I understand why the anti democrats say so - but it's still bilge.A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion.

Your comments on Scotland suggest gross ignorance, once again.

So if you insist on talking nonsense, pray tell me at which 'official meetings with leaders of civilised countries' was PM Prayut not welcome? Do you have any proof that PM Prayut 'accosted' foreign leaders? Did you ever mention Ms. Yingluck picking her nose while posing for a photo-op?

Business as usual, true. Condoned by governments, true. "don't ask, don't tell", true.

As for Thaksin exploiting the institution for political ends, true. We cannot discuss that here, but none the less true.

Lastly, business as usual, didn't the EC go to Scotland in September ? As official observers and representatives of the Thai government?

So, Thaksin on list of those hunted for LM or other charges. Some surely politically influenced, some just mere corruption cases.

[jayboy]

It would seem all you disagree you feel a need to label as gibberish, or nonsense. It would seem you try to mask your own insecurity with such blustering.

Furthermore you still talk in a denigrating way with your 'mob', 'pariah state'. You also like to ignore the truth and/or twist it.

Thaksin is not a royalist. If he were you would need to throw him in with the 'yellow mob' or some 'fascists', or so.

The charge is simply based on his involvement in the 2010 riots. Other charges still wait for his return.

PM Prayut was in Europe if I remember correctly, but then those countries are hardly civilised, now are they? Didn't we have some cabinet members at the UN even? As for 'not welcome, but official business taking place', you condemn a few countries as hypocritical. Certainly if a country like Britain would deal with the opponents of the current Thai government, they would have no problems if other countries deal with the Scottish Independence party?

If you persist in posting nonsense, you should not be surprised if your absurdities are pointed out.

If leaders of a country are not welcome for official meetings with leaders of civilised countries, how would you describe it? I accept "pariah state" may be too harsh.I'm open to suggestions.

If you believe accosting foreign leaders at international meetings and being photographed picking one's nose at the back of a group photo is high level diplomacy so be it.

Nobody is suggesting Thailand isn't regarded as a friendly country:It's the leadership that's the problem.There will be business as usual below that level.

You simply repeat the mantra about Thaksin.It's more nonsense and repeating it doesn't make it less so.I understand why the anti democrats say so - but it's still bilge.A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion.

Your comments on Scotland suggest gross ignorance, once again.

So if you insist on talking nonsense, pray tell me at which 'official meetings with leaders of civilised countries' was PM Prayut not welcome? Do you have any proof that PM Prayut 'accosted' foreign leaders? Did you ever mention Ms. Yingluck picking her nose while posing for a photo-op?

Business as usual, true. Condoned by governments, true. "don't ask, don't tell", true.

As for Thaksin exploiting the institution for political ends, true. We cannot discuss that here, but none the less true.

Lastly, business as usual, didn't the EC go to Scotland in September ? As official observers and representatives of the Thai government?

So, Thaksin on list of those hunted for LM or other charges. Some surely politically influenced, some just mere corruption cases.

He's not welcome at any.There is no possibility of him holding official meetings at present with leaders of the EU, Japan or Australia/NZ.He can attend international meetings and of course can find an opportunity to handbag a leader or two, much like Robert Mugabe's practice.He can schmooze all he likes with regional countries none of which (save Japan and Indonesia) have any real regard for democracy.

Yingluck acquitted herself with charm and distinction, albeit without much content.On her watch foreign relations were improved after the disastrous experience under Abhisit and his airport seizing FM, the ridiculous little Kasit.Thai PMs do not get audiences with the British monarch unless thoroughly approved of.Yingluck's charm was not important in this regatd.It was the fact she was the democratically elected leader of a free people.

As previously stressed Thailand is regarded as a friendly country and if needs dictate (terrorism etc) there would of course be high level meetings.If there is rapid progress to elections and democracy, fuller and more substantive discussions will be possible.

You seem deranged on the subject of Scotland.Yes the EC did have a freebie.So what?

Thaksin apart, you are on very dangerous ground when you start discussing political advantage for the reason mentioned above.Thaksin is very far from being the worst offender - indeed he pales into insignificance compared with others.But I leave this subject well alone.

[DaffyDuck]

citation and sources needed.

Oh wait, then you couldn't play your 'unsubstantiated insinuations' game. Right?

[rubl]

It would seem all you disagree you feel a need to label as gibberish, or nonsense. It would seem you try to mask your own insecurity with such blustering.

Furthermore you still talk in a denigrating way with your 'mob', 'pariah state'. You also like to ignore the truth and/or twist it.

Thaksin is not a royalist. If he were you would need to throw him in with the 'yellow mob' or some 'fascists', or so.

The charge is simply based on his involvement in the 2010 riots. Other charges still wait for his return.

PM Prayut was in Europe if I remember correctly, but then those countries are hardly civilised, now are they? Didn't we have some cabinet members at the UN even? As for 'not welcome, but official business taking place', you condemn a few countries as hypocritical. Certainly if a country like Britain would deal with the opponents of the current Thai government, they would have no problems if other countries deal with the Scottish Independence party?

If you persist in posting nonsense, you should not be surprised if your absurdities are pointed out.

If leaders of a country are not welcome for official meetings with leaders of civilised countries, how would you describe it? I accept "pariah state" may be too harsh.I'm open to suggestions.

If you believe accosting foreign leaders at international meetings and being photographed picking one's nose at the back of a group photo is high level diplomacy so be it.

Nobody is suggesting Thailand isn't regarded as a friendly country:It's the leadership that's the problem.There will be business as usual below that level.

You simply repeat the mantra about Thaksin.It's more nonsense and repeating it doesn't make it less so.I understand why the anti democrats say so - but it's still bilge.A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion.

Your comments on Scotland suggest gross ignorance, once again.

So if you insist on talking nonsense, pray tell me at which 'official meetings with leaders of civilised countries' was PM Prayut not welcome? Do you have any proof that PM Prayut 'accosted' foreign leaders? Did you ever mention Ms. Yingluck picking her nose while posing for a photo-op?

Business as usual, true. Condoned by governments, true. "don't ask, don't tell", true.

As for Thaksin exploiting the institution for political ends, true. We cannot discuss that here, but none the less true.

Lastly, business as usual, didn't the EC go to Scotland in September ? As official observers and representatives of the Thai government?

So, Thaksin on list of those hunted for LM or other charges. Some surely politically influenced, some just mere corruption cases.

He's not welcome at any.There is no possibility of him holding official meetings at present with leaders of the EU, Japan or Australia/NZ.He can attend international meetings and of course can find an opportunity to handbag a leader or two, much like Robert Mugabe's practice.He can schmooze all he likes with regional countries none of which (save Japan and Indonesia) have any real regard for democracy.

Yingluck acquitted herself with charm and distinction, albeit without much content.On her watch foreign relations were improved after the disastrous experience under Abhisit and his airport seizing FM, the ridiculous little Kasit.Thai PMs do not get audiences with the British monarch unless thoroughly approved of.Yingluck's charm was not important in this regatd.It was the fact she was the democratically elected leader of a free people.

As previously stressed Thailand is regarded as a friendly country and if needs dictate (terrorism etc) there would of course be high level meetings.If there is rapid progress to elections and democracy, fuller and more substantive discussions will be possible.

You seem deranged on the subject of Scotland.Yes the EC did have a freebie.So what?

Thaksin apart, you are on very dangerous ground when you start discussing political advantage for the reason mentioned above.Thaksin is very far from being the worst offender - indeed he pales into insignificance compared with others.But I leave this subject well alone.

You started the inconvenient subject with your "A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion."

The high level stuff, well "if needs dictate" sound somewhat hypocritical. Your inclusion of "leader of free people" as well. Your description of the Asian countries also shows the typical attitude of an old fashioned Englishman who looks down on all those '&lt;deleted&gt;'.

Anyway, Thaksin is on the wanted list of LM and other charges suspects.

[jayboy]

He's not welcome at any.There is no possibility of him holding official meetings at present with leaders of the EU, Japan or Australia/NZ.He can attend international meetings and of course can find an opportunity to handbag a leader or two, much like Robert Mugabe's practice.He can schmooze all he likes with regional countries none of which (save Japan and Indonesia) have any real regard for democracy.

Yingluck acquitted herself with charm and distinction, albeit without much content.On her watch foreign relations were improved after the disastrous experience under Abhisit and his airport seizing FM, the ridiculous little Kasit.Thai PMs do not get audiences with the British monarch unless thoroughly approved of.Yingluck's charm was not important in this regatd.It was the fact she was the democratically elected leader of a free people.

As previously stressed Thailand is regarded as a friendly country and if needs dictate (terrorism etc) there would of course be high level meetings.If there is rapid progress to elections and democracy, fuller and more substantive discussions will be possible.

You seem deranged on the subject of Scotland.Yes the EC did have a freebie.So what?

Thaksin apart, you are on very dangerous ground when you start discussing political advantage for the reason mentioned above.Thaksin is very far from being the worst offender - indeed he pales into insignificance compared with others.But I leave this subject well alone.

You started the inconvenient subject with your "A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion."

The high level stuff, well "if needs dictate" sound somewhat hypocritical. Your inclusion of "leader of free people" as well. Your description of the Asian countries also shows the typical attitude of an old fashioned Englishman who looks down on all those '<deleted>'.

Anyway, Thaksin is on the wanted list of LM and other charges suspects.

Any informed person knows exactly who has exploited the institution and why.Thaksin was an offender but a very minor one compared to others.Got it now?

Do you know what "hypocritical" means because your comment doesn't make any sense.If there is a need to discuss directly with the Thai government, western countries will do so.Is that so hard to grasp?

I don't look down on any country.I respect democracy, freedom of expression and liberty.These are universal values which you apparently believe should be withheld from Asians.I personally find that attitude repulsive.

I know Thaksin is on the LM list and I know why.It is however bilge and is done for political reasons (see above)

[DaffyDuck]

Let's suppose you're dealing with Ill-informed or ignorant individuals (after all, that is how you that everyone here) then how about actually supporting your insinuations, instead of begging the question, or appealing to populism? Yiu know - providing facts and sources.

We wouldn't want to have to assume you're just making things up, now would we?

None of that "no use Scotsman" argument, ok?

Edited December 22, 2014 by DaffyDuck

[Neeranam]

You hit the nail right on the head. I have a feeling that issue will be resolved right around the time the country is ready for elections. I'm quite sure no one will miss him when that happens.

You are quite sure that no one will miss him, it seems the only thing we can be quite sure about is your detachment from reality. Thaksin is idolised by millions and millions of Thais, if he were to die and his body be bought back for burial it would dwarf all events that have occurred in Thailand to date - the country would explode from within as the masses vented their pent up frustration for decades of mistreatment at the hands of those opposed freedom and equality. Even the death of a third rate goose such as Suthep would be an event given the current political climate in this country. You are absolutely clueless.

I remember the Queen mother's funeral around 1995 was so big it was unbelievable. The only time I've seen a people jam around Sanam Luaang, Rajadamnern, kao San Road etc. You talk garbage if you think Takasin's funeral would be bigger than hers.

You are the clueless one - when Taksin is out the picture none of the poor hillbllies will care, all they care about is their free handouts.

[jayboy]

Let's suppose you're dealing with Ill-informed or ignorant individuals (after all, that is how you that everyone here) then how about actually supporting your insinuations, instead of begging the question, or appealing to populism? Yiu know - providing facts and sources.

We wouldn't want to have to assume you're just making things up, now would we?

None of that "no use Scotsman" argument, ok?

If you are responding to me I agree there is a great deal of ignorance and poor information.I fully concede much of this nonsense is sincerely held.Not everybody is able to take a balanced view or process ideas effectively.In the case of your post for example it is quite difficult to grasp your meaning because you are unable to express yourself clearly.

My advice to you is to read widely and deeply.By all means ignore me.But the information is out there and easily accessible.Don't rely on one source.Even the poorly educated can make an effort.You are are a foreigner and thus free of Thai cultural baggage and thus better placed to think independently.

[jayboy]

You hit the nail right on the head. I have a feeling that issue will be resolved right around the time the country is ready for elections. I'm quite sure no one will miss him when that happens.

You are quite sure that no one will miss him, it seems the only thing we can be quite sure about is your detachment from reality. Thaksin is idolised by millions and millions of Thais, if he were to die and his body be bought back for burial it would dwarf all events that have occurred in Thailand to date - the country would explode from within as the masses vented their pent up frustration for decades of mistreatment at the hands of those opposed freedom and equality. Even the death of a third rate goose such as Suthep would be an event given the current political climate in this country. You are absolutely clueless.

I remember the Queen mother's funeral around 1995 was so big it was unbelievable. The only time I've seen a people jam around Sanam Luaang, Rajadamnern, kao San Road etc. You talk garbage if you think Takasin's funeral would be bigger than hers.

You are the clueless one - when Taksin is out the picture none of the poor hillbllies will care, all they care about is their free handouts.

Your post is bizarre.Your first para is spot on.The Queen Mother was a wonderful woman and much loved, and with the common touch too.I wouldn't want to draw a comparison with a politician especially one with Thaksin's obvious character flaws.

Your second paragraph manages to combine ignorance,stupidity and hatefulness.Clearly in your many years in Thailand you have learned little how the country has been transformed.

[DaffyDuck]

I remember the Queen mother's funeral around 1995 was so big it was unbelievable. The only time I've seen a people jam around Sanam Luaang, Rajadamnern, kao San Road etc. You talk garbage if you think Takasin's funeral would be bigger than hers.

You are the clueless one - when Taksin is out the picture none of the poor hillbllies will care, all they care about is their free handouts.

Remember the funeral and mourning of the HRH's sister?

Yes, Lazarus is certainly delusional.

[DaffyDuck]

If you are responding to me I agree there is a great deal of ignorance and poor information.I fully concede much of this nonsense is sincerely held.Not everybody is able to take a balanced view or process ideas effectively.In the case of your post for example it is quite difficult to grasp your meaning because you are unable to express yourself clearly.

My advice to you is to read widely and deeply.By all means ignore me.But the information is out there and easily accessible.Don't rely on one source.Even the poorly educated can make an effort.You are are a foreigner and thus free of Thai cultural baggage and thus better placed to think independently.

Do you ever listen to your own advice?

[rubl]

He's not welcome at any.There is no possibility of him holding official meetings at present with leaders of the EU, Japan or Australia/NZ.He can attend international meetings and of course can find an opportunity to handbag a leader or two, much like Robert Mugabe's practice.He can schmooze all he likes with regional countries none of which (save Japan and Indonesia) have any real regard for democracy.

Yingluck acquitted herself with charm and distinction, albeit without much content.On her watch foreign relations were improved after the disastrous experience under Abhisit and his airport seizing FM, the ridiculous little Kasit.Thai PMs do not get audiences with the British monarch unless thoroughly approved of.Yingluck's charm was not important in this regatd.It was the fact she was the democratically elected leader of a free people.

As previously stressed Thailand is regarded as a friendly country and if needs dictate (terrorism etc) there would of course be high level meetings.If there is rapid progress to elections and democracy, fuller and more substantive discussions will be possible.

You seem deranged on the subject of Scotland.Yes the EC did have a freebie.So what?

Thaksin apart, you are on very dangerous ground when you start discussing political advantage for the reason mentioned above.Thaksin is very far from being the worst offender - indeed he pales into insignificance compared with others.But I leave this subject well alone.

You started the inconvenient subject with your "A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion."

The high level stuff, well "if needs dictate" sound somewhat hypocritical. Your inclusion of "leader of free people" as well. Your description of the Asian countries also shows the typical attitude of an old fashioned Englishman who looks down on all those '<deleted>'.

Anyway, Thaksin is on the wanted list of LM and other charges suspects.

Any informed person knows exactly who has exploited the institution and why.Thaksin was an offender but a very minor one compared to others.Got it now?

Do you know what "hypocritical" means because your comment doesn't make any sense.If there is a need to discuss directly with the Thai government, western countries will do so.Is that so hard to grasp?

I don't look down on any country.I respect democracy, freedom of expression and liberty.These are universal values which you apparently believe should be withheld from Asians.I personally find that attitude repulsive.

I know Thaksin is on the LM list and I know why.It is however bilge and is done for political reasons (see above)

For your information Thaksin is on the list of those hunted for LM and other charges. In a way it doesn't even clearly say Thaksin is charged with LM, but who knows. Sure is he is charged with a few other things like the 2 billion Baht loan to allow Myanmar to buy from Shinawatra Holdings. Now that is clearly bilge and political of course. Some people just jealous he cornered the market while being PM.

Apparently you like to interpret and based on that interpretation condemn. That attitude is not repulsive, but just shows a small mind.

"Western Countries will discuss with the Thai government directly when necessary" seems to indicate a hypocritical approach. That is if your description of ""from a pariah state? would be accurate.

As for "you apparently believe should be withheld from Asians" followed by 'repulsive', that's interestingly put especially as you earlier wrote "The regime can of course find comfort in totalitarian states such as China, Putin's Russia and ASEAN - counties with the morality of an earwig". Now that type of description I find somewhat demeaning.

BTW that 'freedom of expression' seems to mean to you the right to insult, denigrate and in general just call people you disagree with 'ignorant', or 'hypocritical' with 'repulsive' attitudes.

[DaffyDuck]

(grabs popcorn)

[tbthailand]

If you persist in posting nonsense, you should not be surprised if your absurdities are pointed out.

If leaders of a country are not welcome for official meetings with leaders of civilised countries, how would you describe it? I accept "pariah state" may be too harsh.I'm open to suggestions.

If you believe accosting foreign leaders at international meetings and being photographed picking one's nose at the back of a group photo is high level diplomacy so be it.

Nobody is suggesting Thailand isn't regarded as a friendly country:It's the leadership that's the problem.There will be business as usual below that level.

You simply repeat the mantra about Thaksin.It's more nonsense and repeating it doesn't make it less so.I understand why the anti democrats say so - but it's still bilge.A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion.

Your comments on Scotland suggest gross ignorance, once again.

So if you insist on talking nonsense, pray tell me at which 'official meetings with leaders of civilised countries' was PM Prayut not welcome? Do you have any proof that PM Prayut 'accosted' foreign leaders? Did you ever mention Ms. Yingluck picking her nose while posing for a photo-op?

Business as usual, true. Condoned by governments, true. "don't ask, don't tell", true.

As for Thaksin exploiting the institution for political ends, true. We cannot discuss that here, but none the less true.

Lastly, business as usual, didn't the EC go to Scotland in September ? As official observers and representatives of the Thai government?

So, Thaksin on list of those hunted for LM or other charges. Some surely politically influenced, some just mere corruption cases.

He's not welcome at any.There is no possibility of him holding official meetings at present with leaders of the EU, Japan or Australia/NZ.He can attend international meetings and of course can find an opportunity to handbag a leader or two, much like Robert Mugabe's practice.He can schmooze all he likes with regional countries none of which (save Japan and Indonesia) have any real regard for democracy.

Yingluck acquitted herself with charm and distinction, albeit without much content.On her watch foreign relations were improved after the disastrous experience under Abhisit and his airport seizing FM, the ridiculous little Kasit.Thai PMs do not get audiences with the British monarch unless thoroughly approved of.Yingluck's charm was not important in this regatd.It was the fact she was the democratically elected leader of a free people.

As previously stressed Thailand is regarded as a friendly country and if needs dictate (terrorism etc) there would of course be high level meetings.If there is rapid progress to elections and democracy, fuller and more substantive discussions will be possible.

You seem deranged on the subject of Scotland.Yes the EC did have a freebie.So what?

Thaksin apart, you are on very dangerous ground when you start discussing political advantage for the reason mentioned above.Thaksin is very far from being the worst offender - indeed he pales into insignificance compared with others.But I leave this subject well alone.

You started the inconvenient subject with your "A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion."

The high level stuff, well "if needs dictate" sound somewhat hypocritical. Your inclusion of "leader of free people" as well. Your description of the Asian countries also shows the typical attitude of an old fashioned Englishman who looks down on all those '<deleted>'.

Anyway, Thaksin is on the wanted list of LM and other charges suspects.

Just a detail, but as I understood the article(s) Thaksin is on a list, but not being sought for the 'other' charges and not on LM charges. Isn't that the case?

[jayboy]

He's not welcome at any.There is no possibility of him holding official meetings at present with leaders of the EU, Japan or Australia/NZ.He can attend international meetings and of course can find an opportunity to handbag a leader or two, much like Robert Mugabe's practice.He can schmooze all he likes with regional countries none of which (save Japan and Indonesia) have any real regard for democracy.

Yingluck acquitted herself with charm and distinction, albeit without much content.On her watch foreign relations were improved after the disastrous experience under Abhisit and his airport seizing FM, the ridiculous little Kasit.Thai PMs do not get audiences with the British monarch unless thoroughly approved of.Yingluck's charm was not important in this regatd.It was the fact she was the democratically elected leader of a free people.

As previously stressed Thailand is regarded as a friendly country and if needs dictate (terrorism etc) there would of course be high level meetings.If there is rapid progress to elections and democracy, fuller and more substantive discussions will be possible.

You seem deranged on the subject of Scotland.Yes the EC did have a freebie.So what?

Thaksin apart, you are on very dangerous ground when you start discussing political advantage for the reason mentioned above.Thaksin is very far from being the worst offender - indeed he pales into insignificance compared with others.But I leave this subject well alone.

You started the inconvenient subject with your "A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion."

The high level stuff, well "if needs dictate" sound somewhat hypocritical. Your inclusion of "leader of free people" as well. Your description of the Asian countries also shows the typical attitude of an old fashioned Englishman who looks down on all those '<deleted>'.

Anyway, Thaksin is on the wanted list of LM and other charges suspects.

Any informed person knows exactly who has exploited the institution and why.Thaksin was an offender but a very minor one compared to others.Got it now?

Do you know what "hypocritical" means because your comment doesn't make any sense.If there is a need to discuss directly with the Thai government, western countries will do so.Is that so hard to grasp?

I don't look down on any country.I respect democracy, freedom of expression and liberty.These are universal values which you apparently believe should be withheld from Asians.I personally find that attitude repulsive.

I know Thaksin is on the LM list and I know why.It is however bilge and is done for political reasons (see above)

For your information Thaksin is on the list of those hunted for LM and other charges. In a way it doesn't even clearly say Thaksin is charged with LM, but who knows. Sure is he is charged with a few other things like the 2 billion Baht loan to allow Myanmar to buy from Shinawatra Holdings. Now that is clearly bilge and political of course. Some people just jealous he cornered the market while being PM.

Apparently you like to interpret and based on that interpretation condemn. That attitude is not repulsive, but just shows a small mind.

"Western Countries will discuss with the Thai government directly when necessary" seems to indicate a hypocritical approach. That is if your description of ""from a pariah state? would be accurate.

As for "you apparently believe should be withheld from Asians" followed by 'repulsive', that's interestingly put especially as you earlier wrote "The regime can of course find comfort in totalitarian states such as China, Putin's Russia and ASEAN - counties with the morality of an earwig". Now that type of description I find somewhat demeaning.

BTW that 'freedom of expression' seems to mean to you the right to insult, denigrate and in general just call people you disagree with 'ignorant', or 'hypocritical' with 'repulsive' attitudes.

1.The ignorance is manifest throughout your post.Do you suggest it be ignored?

2.You appear hazy about the meaning of the word "hypocritical".Your use of it in the given context doesn't make sense.

3.Yes I do regard the attitude as repulsive which deems basic human values as Western imperialism, and argues that Asians have no need of them.Understandable perhaps in local tinpot dictators but disgusting when expressed by outsiders in hock to repression.

4.Yes I know Thaksin is wanted by the government.My point is that the LM label is unfounded.If he's not in fact sought for that I have no comment.( You chose a bad example by the way in the Export Credit loan to Burma,I suspect because you have no idea how export credits work).

5.If you are a fan of Putin's Russia or the Chinese Government, that is your choice.I don't happen to regard them as particularly good democratic examples.

[rubl]

1.The ignorance is manifest throughout your post.Do you suggest it be ignored?

2.You appear hazy about the meaning of the word "hypocritical".Your use of it in the given context doesn't make sense.

3.Yes I do regard the attitude as repulsive which deems basic human values as Western imperialism, and argues that Asians have no need of them.Understandable perhaps in local tinpot dictators but disgusting when expressed by outsiders in hock to repression.

4.Yes I know Thaksin is wanted by the government.My point is that the LM label is unfounded.If he's not in fact sought for that I have no comment.( You chose a bad example by the way in the Export Credit loan to Burma,I suspect because you have no idea how export credits work).

5.If you are a fan of Putin's Russia or the Chinese Government, that is your choice.I don't happen to regard them as particularly good democratic examples.

ad.1 you forgot to include "obviously"

ad.2 dealing with a government when it's convenient, but otherwise ignoring or as some have it vehemently condemning said government seems somewhat inconsistent or if done by the morally highstanding hypocritical.

ad.3 You still assume I am of the opinion that Asians have no need of basic human values. We may just differ what those basics are. To describe ASIAN in the way you did doesn't suggest real regards though.

ad.4 PM Thaksin authorised the government loan of 2 billion Baht to Myanmar for them to buy telecom services from a Shinawatra Holding company. That's not how government loans and guarantees are supposed to work. It's more like a blatant case of corruption and conflict of interest.

ad.5 Forget about the reference you made to China or Russia, you were very subjective in describing ASEAN showing a ceertain bias which may or may not be linked to your English upbringing.

So, Thaksin on the list of those sought for LM and other charges, or as in theNation article the topic refers to

"However, the authorities would also seek extradition of fugitive politicians wanted at home for corruption or abuse of power. These include former prime minister Thaksin, he said."

[rubl]

You started the inconvenient subject with your "A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion."

The high level stuff, well "if needs dictate" sound somewhat hypocritical. Your inclusion of "leader of free people" as well. Your description of the Asian countries also shows the typical attitude of an old fashioned Englishman who looks down on all those '<deleted>'.

Anyway, Thaksin is on the wanted list of LM and other charges suspects.

Just a detail, but as I understood the article(s) Thaksin is on a list, but not being sought for the 'other' charges and not on LM charges. Isn't that the case?

The Nation article the topic refers to has

"However, the authorities would also seek extradition of fugitive politicians wanted at home for corruption or abuse of power. These include former prime minister Thaksin, he said.""

[tbthailand]

You started the inconvenient subject with your "A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion."

The high level stuff, well "if needs dictate" sound somewhat hypocritical. Your inclusion of "leader of free people" as well. Your description of the Asian countries also shows the typical attitude of an old fashioned Englishman who looks down on all those '<deleted>'.

Anyway, Thaksin is on the wanted list of LM and other charges suspects.

Just a detail, but as I understood the article(s) Thaksin is on a list, but not being sought for the 'other' charges and not on LM charges. Isn't that the case?

The Nation article the topic refers to has

"However, the authorities would also seek extradition of fugitive politicians wanted at home for corruption or abuse of power. These include former prime minister Thaksin, he said.""

right, so Thaksin is not wanted for LM. I don't recall any stories of him actually being charged with LM in the past.

[rubl]

You started the inconvenient subject with your "A more interesting question - which you wouldn't ask - is whether Thaksin has exploited the institution for political ends.That's a fair point but beyond the scope of this discussion."

The high level stuff, well "if needs dictate" sound somewhat hypocritical. Your inclusion of "leader of free people" as well. Your description of the Asian countries also shows the typical attitude of an old fashioned Englishman who looks down on all those '<deleted>'.

Anyway, Thaksin is on the wanted list of LM and other charges suspects.

Just a detail, but as I understood the article(s) Thaksin is on a list, but not being sought for the 'other' charges and not on LM charges. Isn't that the case?

The Nation article the topic refers to has

"However, the authorities would also seek extradition of fugitive politicians wanted at home for corruption or abuse of power. These include former prime minister Thaksin, he said.""

right, so Thaksin is not wanted for LM. I don't recall any stories of him actually being charged with LM in the past.

Right, that only leaves corruption, conflict of interest and if I remember correctly a charge of terrorism. Not too bad, isn't it

[DaffyDuck]

5.If you are a fan of Putin's Russia or the Chinese Government, that is your choice.I don't happen to regard them as particularly good democratic examples.

Why not?

They have elections. Just like Cambodia. Isn't that all that you care about?

Funny how you skirt that issue.

[DaffyDuck]

Right, that only leaves corruption, conflict of interest and if I remember correctly a charge of terrorism. Not too bad, isn't it

All charges that foreign nations would have no trouble extraditing a fugitive for, particularly as none of them carry the death penalty.

Remember, there's a reason why Thaksin had to flee the UK and give up his residencies there, as they were about to hand him over - so now, his only home are dodgy third-world countries....

[rubl]

Right, that only leaves corruption, conflict of interest and if I remember correctly a charge of terrorism. Not too bad, isn't it

All charges that foreign nations would have no trouble extraditing a fugitive for, particularly as none of them carry the death penalty.

Remember, there's a reason why Thaksin had to flee the UK and give up his residencies there, as they were about to hand him over - so now, his only home are dodgy third-world countries....

I'm not sure on the 'giving up 'residencies'. I think it was much more a case of having asked political asylum, the British government warned Thaksin about getting involved in politics and being too vocal about it. That didn't seem to suit him and he withdrew his application. As far as I remember, that is.

Edited December 22, 2014 by rubl