Thaksin in the list of those hunted for lese majeste and other offences

[whybother]

In how many cities were town halls burnt down? More than one.

In how many cities were protesters killed or injured by opposition protesters? More than one.

In 2010, there was a real threat that things could escalate. There was a real chance that it was going to get worse before it got better.

I think you're confusing violent demonstations and riots with civil war. Massive difference.

No. I'm not confusing anything. I didn't say that 2010 was civil war. I did suggest that there was a threat of civil war.

[tbthailand]

I know that you and I don't agree on politics, but it seems that we do agree on LM.

As for rubl - he's been a constant troll (in a most polite way) for as long as I've been here. Being polite doesn't make him less of a troll.

As for 2010, the response to WB which I made regarding the last 6 days was dead-on correct. For him to claim that there was a serious threat of escalation - beyond that which could have and did come from the military - falls into the 2014 category of "the 'intervention was needed because we were on the brink of a civil war."

Calling me a troll because I come with reasonable, truthful arguments is somewhat weak, my dear TB.

As for escalation, with every grenade and gunshot fired by those 'unknowns' who helped the UDD they escalated the situation. AS I wrote, even on that final day, the 19th of May, the army and even a Canadian reporter got grenades lobbed on them, gun fire exchange till in the morning.

http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/92964/Canadian-writer-injured-in-Bangkok-in-serious-condition

I use the label 'troll' because it fits you perfectly.

Have a wonderful evening.

[whybother]

I know that you and I don't agree on politics, but it seems that we do agree on LM.

As for rubl - he's been a constant troll (in a most polite way) for as long as I've been here. Being polite doesn't make him less of a troll.

As for 2010, the response to WB which I made regarding the last 6 days was dead-on correct. For him to claim that there was a serious threat of escalation - beyond that which could have and did come from the military - falls into the 2014 category of "the 'intervention was needed because we were on the brink of a civil war."

I didn't say "the intervention was needed" or that "we were on the brink of civil war".

And FYI, I definitely don't like LM.

sorry, I did not mean to imply that you have said that, I was referring to others who often use the 'civil war' line ... the juxtaposition of my response to Gemini does leave that open to be misunderstood.

But most certainly, and coming back to your comment on 2010, there was no real chance of an escalation at the start of May - a stalemate, yes, but escalation, no. Until the military came in for 6 days with their 'solution' to the demonstrations.

Given the armed militia shooting at the army right through the protests and particularly in the last 6 days and then the number of buildings that were set on fire, both in Bangkok and other cities, there was a real chance that that could have escalated. 2014 was a long way off that, but with having two groups shooting at each other it could have got worse.

But back to the statement that started this conversation, I don't believe there is currently a threat of civil war. Mid-late next year, if there is no progress towards elections, I think larger protests will start up. Depending on how the government deals with that could see things head in a bad direction.

[Bluespunk]

thaksin's culpability in the thousands of murders that occured during his "war on drugs" campaign would be my number one reason for apprehending him

Whose war on drugs campaign? (Hint - <censored>)

Thaksin's.

I don't need hints (whatever you said) I was here when it was in full swing.

I was too around and they popped off a lot of those garbage dealers. You should listen to HM call on his birthday speech that the current laws and solutions are not sufficient to stop those drug dealers and drastic actions are needed.

Many of those murdered were not drug dealers and in cases not even users.

Many of those murdered were nothing more than drug users, in effect victims of the drug trade.

[tbthailand]

I know that you and I don't agree on politics, but it seems that we do agree on LM.

As for rubl - he's been a constant troll (in a most polite way) for as long as I've been here. Being polite doesn't make him less of a troll.

As for 2010, the response to WB which I made regarding the last 6 days was dead-on correct. For him to claim that there was a serious threat of escalation - beyond that which could have and did come from the military - falls into the 2014 category of "the 'intervention was needed because we were on the brink of a civil war."

I didn't say "the intervention was needed" or that "we were on the brink of civil war".

And FYI, I definitely don't like LM.

sorry, I did not mean to imply that you have said that, I was referring to others who often use the 'civil war' line ... the juxtaposition of my response to Gemini does leave that open to be misunderstood.

But most certainly, and coming back to your comment on 2010, there was no real chance of an escalation at the start of May - a stalemate, yes, but escalation, no. Until the military came in for 6 days with their 'solution' to the demonstrations.

Given the armed militia shooting at the army right through the protests and particularly in the last 6 days and then the number of buildings that were set on fire, both in Bangkok and other cities, there was a real chance that that could have escalated. 2014 was a long way off that, but with having two groups shooting at each other it could have got worse.

But back to the statement that started this conversation, I don't believe there is currently a threat of civil war. Mid-late next year, if there is no progress towards elections, I think larger protests will start up. Depending on how the government deals with that could see things head in a bad direction.

so, 2010... again, from where I was sitting, the military attack in the last 6 days was the escalation. After it was over, there were buildings burning and dead protesters.

The last 6 days were lethal, almost exclusively, for the protesters. In fact, I am not sure if there was even one fatality among the troops. I'd have to check to say for sure.

Of course I did not say that there was not any resistance, but it was a very one-sided fight - part of the reason that the military assassinated Seh Daeng before beginning the operation, I would imagine. And most of the time, the army was fighting normal protesters, not black-shirts.

As for next year... I try to not predict. It's possible, if not likely, that resistance to the 'NCPO' will continue. But there are too many variables to guess. Where I do make predictions is regarding the new constitution which will be significantly less democratic than the 2007 constitution. It only remains to be seen which flavor of turd the 'NCPO' rolls out.

[whybother]

so, 2010... again, from where I was sitting, the military attack in the last 6 days was the escalation. After it was over, there were buildings burning and dead protesters.

The last 6 days were lethal, almost exclusively, for the protesters. In fact, I am not sure if there was even one fatality among the troops. I'd have to check to say for sure.

Of course I did not say that there was not any resistance, but it was a very one-sided fight - part of the reason that the military assassinated Seh Daeng before beginning the operation, I would imagine. And most of the time, the army was fighting normal protesters, not black-shirts.

As for next year... I try to not predict. It's possible, if not likely, that resistance to the 'NCPO' will continue. But there are too many variables to guess. Where I do make predictions is regarding the new constitution which will be significantly less democratic than the 2007 constitution. It only remains to be seen which flavor of turd the 'NCPO' rolls out.

The escalation was from the protesters from day 1. Starting with their blood spreading, then their mobile protests, confronting soldiers stationed away from protest sites, then the occupation of Ratchaprasong, followed by storming government house and Thaicom. Then they marched to the army barracks and threatened to storm them. That was followed by their armed militia coming out on April 10. After they moved their camp to Ratchaprasong, the set up their barricades soaked in petrol. They also shot grenades at the BTS killing civilians. They still continued to go outside the barricades to attack army placements. They're the ones that were killed during the last few days. They may have been mostly "ordinary" protesters, but they were also backed up by their armed militia. Even on May 19, they were shooting at the army from Lumpini Park. There were also soldiers and reporters hit by grenades during the storming of the camp.

Leading up to May 19 2010, the red shirt leaders warned of civil war if the soldiers stormed the camp. They also warned of civil war if the PTP government was overthrown in 2014.

[kieran2698]

He will now have a better case for asylum than ever. I really don't think they have thought this one through, it would have been a lot easier to extradite him before the coup.

All he has to do is argue that the coup has been orchestrated by a rival political group and claim that the charges, as brought against him in absentee, were false, and he fears that he will not receive a fair chance of appeal or a retrial if he were to return. Simple stuff, and almost all countries in the world have a legal obligation under Article 1 of the Geneva Convention to accept him if he manages to get in first.

Article 1 of the Convention as amended by the 1967 Protocol provides the definition of a refugee:

"A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.."

[Qent]

I swear if Thaksin and all of his family died that this lot would start blaming their ghosts for Thailand's problems.

If they did die, their apologists and defenders would be out of work.

[ableguy]

a good place to start would be to cancel Thaksin passport and you could follow that by arresting the red bull dick head for murder

Cancelling his Thai passport wouldn't cause him too many problems as he holds at least two others I think.

Any advance on two ? Montenegro and a Sth. / Central American country ?

Fijian I believe.

[Skywalker69]

a good place to start would be to cancel Thaksin passport and you could follow that by arresting the red bull dick head for murder

Cancelling his Thai passport wouldn't cause him too many problems as he holds at least two others I think.

Any advance on two ? Montenegro and a Sth. / Central American country ?

Fijian I believe.

Nicaraguan and Nigerian passports. Edited December 20, 2014 by Skywalker69

[Baerboxer]

LM112 is the highest and most important law of the land. This is the land of the father. He provided love, peace and hope for all his children living under his protection. Anyone who do not love the father do not deserve to live here and should be jailed until they do.

There is no law in Thailand. The military coup illegally took control of the country and abolished the constitution. There are no legally elected officials in Thailand.

Took control from a legally elected government, sort of, who were acting illegally, lying and refusing to obey the law; whilst allowing attacks on and murder of any who opposed them. A government openly owned, controlled and dictated to by a convicted criminal fugitive with 15 more serious court cases waiting. A government that openly lied and thought nothing of trying to give amnesty to 25k+ just so they could whitewash their criminal leader's crimes and those of his family and friends.

There was certainly no laws under the Shins - only if and when it suited their agenda. And their "respect" for the constitution was legendary.

[Baerboxer]

so, 2010... again, from where I was sitting, the military attack in the last 6 days was the escalation. After it was over, there were buildings burning and dead protesters.

The last 6 days were lethal, almost exclusively, for the protesters. In fact, I am not sure if there was even one fatality among the troops. I'd have to check to say for sure.

Of course I did not say that there was not any resistance, but it was a very one-sided fight - part of the reason that the military assassinated Seh Daeng before beginning the operation, I would imagine. And most of the time, the army was fighting normal protesters, not black-shirts.

As for next year... I try to not predict. It's possible, if not likely, that resistance to the 'NCPO' will continue. But there are too many variables to guess. Where I do make predictions is regarding the new constitution which will be significantly less democratic than the 2007 constitution. It only remains to be seen which flavor of turd the 'NCPO' rolls out.

The escalation was from the protesters from day 1. Starting with their blood spreading, then their mobile protests, confronting soldiers stationed away from protest sites, then the occupation of Ratchaprasong, followed by storming government house and Thaicom. Then they marched to the army barracks and threatened to storm them. That was followed by their armed militia coming out on April 10. After they moved their camp to Ratchaprasong, the set up their barricades soaked in petrol. They also shot grenades at the BTS killing civilians. They still continued to go outside the barricades to attack army placements. They're the ones that were killed during the last few days. They may have been mostly "ordinary" protesters, but they were also backed up by their armed militia. Even on May 19, they were shooting at the army from Lumpini Park. There were also soldiers and reporters hit by grenades during the storming of the camp.

Leading up to May 19 2010, the red shirt leaders warned of civil war if the soldiers stormed the camp. They also warned of civil war if the PTP government was overthrown in 2014.

Threats of civil war in 2010, again in 2014, whenever a court rules against the Shin agenda etc. Lots of threats. But the throngs who they claim love and support their dear leader never materialize. Just the paid private militia and hired street thugs.

And still the leaders are free out on bail.

[redandyellow]

There are authors out there like Paul Handley who should be a little concerned..

[JAG]

LM112 is the highest and most important law of the land. This is the land of the father. He provided love, peace and hope for all his children living under his protection. Anyone who do not love the father do not deserve to live here and should be jailed until they do.

There is no law in Thailand. The military coup illegally took control of the country and abolished the constitution. There are no legally elected officials in Thailand.

Took control from a legally elected government, sort of, who were acting illegally, lying and refusing to obey the law; whilst allowing attacks on and murder of any who opposed them. A government openly owned, controlled and dictated to by a convicted criminal fugitive with 15 more serious court cases waiting. A government that openly lied and thought nothing of trying to give amnesty to 25k+ just so they could whitewash their criminal leader's crimes and those of his family and friends.

There was certainly no laws under the Shins - only if and when it suited their agenda. And their "respect" for the constitution was legendary.

To say that there were no laws under the previous government is your interpretation. It is probably not shared by everyone both within Thailand ( particularly by those who elected it with a constitutional majority) and Internationally by all those countries who recognised it as the constitutionally elected government of Thailand.

The Junta just abolished the constitution, granted themselves an amnesty and now rule through martial law. Now that it is an incontrovertible fact. It actually happened. The man who led them, seizing power whilst head of the Armed Forces, and on retiring from the Army appointing himself as Prime Minister for an indefinite term, is now asking for those who he views as a danger to the regime which he has created to be extradited? And he says it may be difficult to achieve? Possibly the understatement of this (admittedly young) century!

Edited December 20, 2014 by JAG

[beautifulthailand99]

LM112 is the highest and most important law of the land. This is the land of the father. He provided love, peace and hope for all his children living under his protection. Anyone who do not love the father do not deserve to live here and should be jailed until they do.

Well said my Thai friend enjoy your freedoms . Long live 112 !

[hahaha555]

_{LM112 is the highest and most important law of the land. This is the land of the father. He provided love, peace and hope for all his children living under his protection. Anyone who do not love the father do not deserve to live here and should be jailed until they do.}

Aw, come on. Grow up!

[hahaha555]

LM112 is the highest and most important law of the land. This is the land of the father. He provided love, peace and hope for all his children living under his protection. Anyone who do not love the father do not deserve to live here and should be jailed until they do.

Well said my Thai friend enjoy your freedoms . Long live 112 !

Jeez!

[Fred Flinstone]

The general needs to be clear -

WE (those of us abroad) are not his public and its demeaning to even address us.

I can say what i want about him or any Thai national on social media .

I can speculate the The Economy and its future with stock brokers or dinner guests , people on line.

I realise this site has rules so i avoid too much comment - but elsewhere freedom to speak is not his business.

[Fred Flinstone]

He will now have a better case for asylum than ever. I really don't think they have thought this one through, it would have been a lot easier to extradite him before the coup.

All he has to do is argue that the coup has been orchestrated by a rival political group and claim that the charges, as brought against him in absentee, were false, and he fears that he will not receive a fair chance of appeal or a retrial if he were to return. Simple stuff, and almost all countries in the world have a legal obligation under Article 1 of the Geneva Convention to accept him if he manages to get in first.

Article 1 of the Convention as amended by the 1967 Protocol provides the definition of a refugee:

"A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.."

Correct - Thaksin will never be extradited .

[DaffyDuck]

I swear if Thaksin and all of his family died that this lot would start blaming their ghosts for Thailand's problems.

If they did die, their apologists and defenders would be out of work.

When this happens, that which divides Thailand will be gone, once and for all. It'd be the best thing that could possibly happen.

[LazarusRising]

I swear if Thaksin and all of his family died that this lot would start blaming their ghosts for Thailand's problems.

If they did die, their apologists and defenders would be out of work.

When this happens, that which divides Thailand will be gone, once and for all. It'd be the best thing that could possibly happen.

Clueless. What divides Thailand is modernisation and equality - the masses want both the elites neither. Thaksin or no Thaksin the old guards fight against progress, development and equality is pointless, the good guys are going to win and Thais will soon be free.

[DaffyDuck]

You know this how? The good guys, in your fantasy world, would be ... who?

[scorecard]

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I swear if Thaksin and all of his family died that this lot would start blaming their ghosts for Thailand's problems.

If they did die, their apologists and defenders would be out of work.

When this happens, that which divides Thailand will be gone, once and for all. It'd be the best thing that could possibly happen.

Clueless. What divides Thailand is modernisation and equality - the masses want both the elites neither. Thaksin or no Thaksin the old guards fight against progress, development and equality is pointless, the good guys are going to win and Thais will soon be free.

So the paymaster, his fake pm sister, his puppet BIL pm, nor any of their gangs, in power for more than 10 years, did said, announced absolutely nothing that would push for / gain modernization and equality, in fact they deliberately kept the poor and the farmers reliant on handouts.

So who is stopping modernization and equality?

[mikemac]

I swear if Thaksin and all of his family died that this lot would start blaming their ghosts for Thailand's problems.

If they did die, their apologists and defenders would be out of work.

When this happens, that which divides Thailand will be gone, once and for all. It'd be the best thing that could possibly happen.

Clueless. What divides Thailand is modernisation and equality - the masses want both the elites neither. Thaksin or no Thaksin the old guards fight against progress, development and equality is pointless, the good guys are going to win and Thais will soon be free.

Trolling bait or what !

[Sawan Chan 7]

LM112 is the highest and most important law of the land. This is the land of the father. He provided love, peace and hope for all his children living under his protection. Anyone who do not love the father do not deserve to live here and should be jailed until they do.

It used to be but times are a changing. Accept it Thai person, the younger generation are waking up to the huge imbalance of money and power

Taksin is a threat to this money and power so they, quite rightly IMHO, are taking him back to lock up for good..If they time it rightly, there will be no royal pardon. Wise move by Prayuth and the people pulling his strings.

[DaffyDuck]

Wow. The conspiracy nuts are out in force. Don't forget, guys, "9/11 was an inside job" - and the moon landings didn't happen either....

[LazarusRising]

Wow. The conspiracy nuts are out in force. Don't forget, guys, "9/11 was an inside job" - and the moon landings didn't happen either....

Surely the nuts are the few who gullibly believe that Thaksin is the devil incarnate and solely responsible for all Thailand's ills. Thaksin is a recent phenomenon, the Thai military on the other hand...

[LazarusRising]

You know this how? The good guys, in your fantasy world, would be ... who?

The good guys, in reality, are the people of Thailand - all of them, not just the ones with wealth, family connections or higher levels of education - their sheer weight of numbers and the righteousness of their cause makes the eventual outcome of this conflict inevitable. Enjoy your 5 minutes of fascism it ends for ever no later than 2016.

[tbthailand]

I swear if Thaksin and all of his family died that this lot would start blaming their ghosts for Thailand's problems.

If they did die, their apologists and defenders would be out of work.

When this happens, that which divides Thailand will be gone, once and for all. It'd be the best thing that could possibly happen.

I don't recall Thaksin being a factor back in the 70's when Thailand was socially divided.

[tbthailand]

You know this how? The good guys, in your fantasy world, would be ... who?

The good guys, in reality, are the people of Thailand - all of them, not just the ones with wealth, family connections or higher levels of education - their sheer weight of numbers and the righteousness of their cause makes the eventual outcome of this conflict inevitable. Enjoy your 5 minutes of fascism it ends for ever no later than 2016.

it ends for ever no later than 2016.

that is perhaps too optimistic.