Palestinian peace plan put before UN

[webfact]

Palestinian draft peace plan put before UN Security Council

(BBC) A draft resolution setting out a Palestinian timetable for a peace deal with Israel has been submitted to the UN Security Council.

The document, presented by Jordan, calls for a deal within one year and Israeli withdrawal from occupied territories by the end of 2017.

Jordan has indicated it will not seek a quick vote, allowing further talks and a possible bid to secure US support.

The US has vetoed previous resolutions it considers hostile to Israel.

The text of the draft says a negotiated solution should be based on several parameters including the borders that existed before the 1967 Six Day War, security agreements, and "Jerusalem as the shared capital of the two states".

It urges both parties "to abstain from any unilateral and illegal actions, including settlement activities, that could undermine the viability of a two-state solution".

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has sought reassurances that the US - Israel's ally - would block any efforts to adopt the resolution.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30527476


-- BBC 2014-12-18

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

I know this religious based hatred has been going on for thousands of years but you got to admit, the Jews haven't slaughtered a school full of children. Muslims need to be the first line against their own extremists. They need to denounce these animals with the same enthusiasm the exhibit when some draws a picture of Mohamed. Get you priorities in order then ask for help after that.

[Ulysses G.]

Veto it. It violates the Palestinian agreement to negotiate directly with Israel under the Oslo Accords.

[hard124get]

I know this religious based hatred has been going on for thousands of years but you got to admit, the Jews haven't slaughtered a school full of children. Muslims need to be the first line against their own extremists. They need to denounce these animals with the same enthusiasm the exhibit when some draws a picture of Mohamed. Get you priorities in order then ask for help after that.

Er.... the Israelis did slaughter a school full of children, recently in Gaza. Over 500 children in total.

[hard124get]

Veto it. It violates the Palestinian agreement to negotiate directly with Israel under the Oslo Accords.

Israel has proved many times, it is not capable of negotiation. It must be forced to give back illegally occupied land.

[Ulysses G.]

Er.... the Israelis did slaughter a school full of children, recently in Gaza. Over 500 children in total.

Er.... this is a bold-faced lie. It is no surprise that - as usual - you offer no credible evidence. Why do you and your ilk rely so much on fabrications that can easily be disproved?

Edited December 18, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Mosha]

Which side is it the launches attacks from school and hospital grounds?

[Travelman868]

I know this religious based hatred has been going on for thousands of years but you got to admit, the Jews haven't slaughtered a school full of children. Muslims need to be the first line against their own extremists. They need to denounce these animals with the same enthusiasm the exhibit when some draws a picture of Mohamed. Get you priorities in order then ask for help after that.

In fact this disute has NOT been going on for thousands of years. Islam came about in 630 ish AD

AND at one time Isreal and Palestine fought the Romans together.

However Islamists are non humans

[hard124get]

Er.... the Israelis did slaughter a school full of children, recently in Gaza. Over 500 children in total.

Er.... this is a bold-faced lie. It is no surprise that - as usual - you offer no credible evidence. Why do you and your ilk rely so much on fabrications that can easily be disproved?

The whole world saw the slaughter. Look at the UN report.

[Norvid]

Israel doesn't want to negotiate anything. Wants all Palestinians out of Palestinian land, which is doing progressively with success. This is called by the way ethnic cleansing. US is only doing Israel favors with billions of dollars support every year. Any rhetoric, promises of negotiations, engagements, are pure strategy to this Israeli's game. Not expect anything from this apartheid state and all initiatives until Israel is forced by US to deal according to international law and international resolutions. South Africa was forced to abandon their racist polices and apartheid system under international pressure. Now time for the world to do this same to Israel a terrorist state...............................................................Peoples, look at facts and not propaganda, not brainwash.

1. Under the occupation any activities against the oppressor is internationally recognized as self defense and as freedom fighting.

2. All countries have to be measured by exactly the same international standards.

3. In any democratic state all people are equal and have the same rights and privileges.

4. In a democratic state you do not through people from their houses, you do not kill ethnic groups, you do not build on somebody's land, you permit people born on this land to return and not block them, you do not call a terrorist a person fighting for their rights and freedom, unless_______________the Jews are ABOVE THE LAW and all international law and historical facts doesn't apply to this terrorist state.

[Jingthing]

Another Israeli-Palestinian conflict thread, another predictable eruption of over the top anti-Israelism/anti-Zionism.

Anyway, I think it's clear that given the souring of the Obama-Netanyahu relationship, a U.S. veto is not quite as 100 percent certain as previously.

I still think the U.S. will veto, but Obama has less to lose. Doesn't need to run again and Hillary can distance herself from him in 2016 on that issue so might even benefit from it. I still think the U.S. will veto but it is interesting that it is not quite 100 percent.

For the U.S. not to veto, I reckon they would need to SOFTEN the language considerably though ... which isn't likely either.

Another chapter in a long story.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Jingthing

[konying]

I know this religious based hatred has been going on for thousands of years but you got to admit, the Jews haven't slaughtered a school full of children. Muslims need to be the first line against their own extremists. They need to denounce these animals with the same enthusiasm the exhibit when some draws a picture of Mohamed. Get you priorities in order then ask for help after that.

Er.... the Israelis did slaughter a school full of children, recently in Gaza. Over 500 children in total.

Er.. It was actually Hamas who misfired and then cleaned up it's rockets. Try to catch up

[harryfrompattaya]

I love it. Worry about Syria Iraq Iran Afghanistan and Pakistani as more poor fools and are dyeing their

[Ulysses G.]

Er.... the Israelis did slaughter a school full of children, recently in Gaza. Over 500 children in total.

Er.... this is a bold-faced lie. It is no surprise that - as usual - you offer no credible evidence. Why do you and your ilk rely so much on fabrications that can easily be disproved?

The whole world saw the slaughter. Look at the UN report.

You are trying to distract from the LIE as posters like you usually do. You said, "the Israelis did slaughter a school full of children, recently in Gaza. Over 500 children in total." PROVE IT.

[konying]

I know this religious based hatred has been going on for thousands of years but you got to admit, the Jews haven't slaughtered a school full of children. Muslims need to be the first line against their own extremists. They need to denounce these animals with the same enthusiasm the exhibit when some draws a picture of Mohamed. Get you priorities in order then ask for help after that.

In fact this disute has NOT been going on for thousands of years. Islam came about in 630 ish AD

AND at one time Isreal and Palestine fought the Romans together.

However Islamists are non humans

And neither are Zionists.

Yes zionists hold up schools and shoot kids, zionists also take hostages in broad daylight, they also enslave and rape women , create ghetto's in every country, live off social welfare, fill up jails and attack police.

[Ulysses G.]

And neither are Zionists.

Go ahead and say what you really mean. We all know that "Zionists" is just a euphemism.

[Jingthing]

And neither are Zionists.

Go ahead and say what you really mean. We all know that "Zionists" is just a euphemism.

Supporting the existence of Israel as a state with a Jewish character makes one a Zionist. That's roughly 90 percent of Jews in the world. So folks, do the math ...

[Morch]

Veto it. It violates the Palestinian agreement to negotiate directly with Israel under the Oslo Accords.

Israel has proved many times, it is not capable of negotiation. It must be forced to give back illegally occupied land.

Not capable of negotiation? There are peace treaties between Israel and two of its neighbors (Egypt and Jordan). There were even previous negotiations with the Fatah which led to the creation of the PA. There were, quite recently, indirect negotiations with Hamas, which led to the current ceasefire in Gaza.

[Ulysses G.]

Don't expect honesty from the members who post hate towards Israel obsessively. You will virtually never find a completely honest post.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

I know this religious based hatred has been going on for thousands of years but you got to admit, the Jews haven't slaughtered a school full of children. Muslims need to be the first line against their own extremists. They need to denounce these animals with the same enthusiasm the exhibit when some draws a picture of Mohamed. Get you priorities in order then ask for help after that.

In fact this disute has NOT been going on for thousands of years. Islam came about in 630 ish AD

AND at one time Isreal and Palestine fought the Romans together.

However Islamists are non humans

The dispute is indeed not as long as stated in the quoted post. The second part is a bit of creative history, though, no matter what it supposes to actually mean. Islamists (without getting into whom this designates) are definitely humans. Human are capable of some incredibly vile things, though. Defining someone as non-human diminishes responsibility and accountability.

[mjnaus]

Don't expect honesty from the members who post hate towards Israel incandescently. You will virtually never find a completely honest post.

And the exact same can be said about the opposite site... These threads always end up the same; both camps dug in so deep in their emotions, neither side is budging one bit and neither side is capable of looking at the matter objectively...

[Ulysses G.]

Don't expect honesty from the members who post hate towards Israel incandescently. You will virtually never find a completely honest post.

And the exact same can be said about the opposite site.

Wrong. Most - not all - of the pro-Israel side post credible facts that are easily verified.

The Israel-haters mostly post stuff like I pointed out above and asked for evidence of, but - of course - never got any. There is no way that the Israelis "slaughtered a school full of over 500 children in Gaza". It is a blatant lie and pretty typical of most of the anti-Israel posters on these threads.

As to Israel "not being capable of negotiating". Morch points out numerous cases where they have negotiated successfully. It is ridiculous to claim otherwise. I just wonder why these members rely so overwhelmingly on untruths that can be easily exposed using credible media sources as evidence otherwise.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Wat dee]

Don't expect honesty from the members who post hate towards Israel obsessively. You will virtually never find a completely honest post.

Look who's talking!

[Ulysses G.]

Look who's talking!

Why don't you PROVE that I am wrong about Israel NOT "slaughtering a school full of over 500 children in Gaza" for starters, since you are insinuating that I "virtually never write a completely honest post"?. Posting stupid accusations that you and your comrades can't prove and running away seems more your style.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

Israel doesn't want to negotiate anything. Wants all Palestinians out of Palestinian land, which is doing progressively with success. This is called by the way ethnic cleansing. US is only doing Israel favors with billions of dollars support every year. Any rhetoric, promises of negotiations, engagements, are pure strategy to this Israeli's game. Not expect anything from this apartheid state and all initiatives until Israel is forced by US to deal according to international law and international resolutions. South Africa was forced to abandon their racist polices and apartheid system under international pressure. Now time for the world to do this same to Israel a terrorist state...............................................................Peoples, look at facts and not propaganda, not brainwash.

1. Under the occupation any activities against the oppressor is internationally recognized as self defense and as freedom fighting.

2. All countries have to be measured by exactly the same international standards.

3. In any democratic state all people are equal and have the same rights and privileges.

4. In a democratic state you do not through people from their houses, you do not kill ethnic groups, you do not build on somebody's land, you permit people born on this land to return and not block them, you do not call a terrorist a person fighting for their rights and freedom, unless_______________the Jews are ABOVE THE LAW and all international law and historical facts doesn't apply to this terrorist state.

If Israel (even if one sticks with this generalized term, hardly a unified society) does not wish to negotiate - how come Abbas is in the West Bank? How come there's even a PA? If Israel wants all the Palestinians out - how come the Palestinians are still there, and numbers growing? Since 1967 Palestinian population figures been on the rise, and idea of victory through sheer demographics is hardly a new one, in this reference.

The USA supplies military aid funds to Israel. These are mostly conditioned on buying from USA firms.

The usual comparison with South Africa's apartheid is mostly nonsense, but a handy catchphrase. It does not, however, quite exactly apply to conditions in Israel.

Being under occupation may allow some leeway in actions against the oppressor. This, however, generally relates to actions taken against occupying forces (military and otherwise), rather than civilians of the occupying country. It does not absolve any immoral action.

All countries are to be measured under the same moral standards? That is a nice notion, certainly. Does it hold any merit when compared with reality? Other than targeting Israel as an example, do all countries obey the same standard?

Democracies come in many forms and exhibit different levels of democracy. Israel is a democracy, albeit probably not on par with all Western democracies. Then again, most Western democracies do not currently face the same dilemmas and issues. Generally speaking minorities in Israel get full rights. The Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, though.

Any more talking points on your list need sorting?

[Morch]

Another Israeli-Palestinian conflict thread, another predictable eruption of over the top anti-Israelism/anti-Zionism.

Anyway, I think it's clear that given the souring of the Obama-Netanyahu relationship, a U.S. veto is not quite as 100 percent certain as previously.

I still think the U.S. will veto, but Obama has less to lose. Doesn't need to run again and Hillary can distance herself from him in 2016 on that issue so might even benefit from it. I still think the U.S. will veto but it is interesting that it is not quite 100 percent.

For the U.S. not to veto, I reckon they would need to SOFTEN the language considerably though ... which isn't likely either.

Another chapter in a long story.

Interesting. Was under the impression you had this long ignore list, which would make these topics shorter and somewhat more focused.

Netanyahu's (or rather, Israel's right wing political wing en masse) soured relationship with the Obama administration non- withstanding, it is doubtful how much personal issues actually come to play when things get serious. Considering Israel's upcoming elections and the USA trying to appear non-partisan, unlikely that these issues will be publicly stressed for the time being.

The USA wishes to avoid a using its veto right, as it would complicate things with the IS campaign, go against the tide of international politics, and frankly - hard to keep it up with the way recent Israeli governments been carrying on. That said, the USA position (at least so far) is that it will oppose a proposal which calls for unilateral moves and would not include negotiations. Apparently, the USA is not too keen on presenting fixed deadlines as well.

There was a meeting between Netanyau and Kerry on Monday to discuss the upcoming Palestinian proposal. Somewhat unusual, but Netanyahu declined to update both the media and Israeli diplomats on their exact content and conclusions, if there were any. Hard to say whether this means he got the assurances he sought or the opposite. Didn't look too happy coming out of the meeting, but then was going on about the USA's friendship later on this week.

The current proposal is already a toned down version, and I expect it would be further altered. The Palestinians may wish to delay a bit, with some UNSC membership changes taking effect in 2015, which could spell better chances for their cause.

[sdanielmcev]

I know this religious based hatred has been going on for thousands of years but you got to admit, the Jews haven't slaughtered a school full of children. Muslims need to be the first line against their own extremists. They need to denounce these animals with the same enthusiasm the exhibit when some draws a picture of Mohamed. Get you priorities in order then ask for help after that.

In fact this disute has NOT been going on for thousands of years. Islam came about in 630 ish AD

AND at one time Isreal and Palestine fought the Romans together.

However Islamists are non humans

Well, maybe not against Muslims, but certainly against Arabs. If you read your Bible, they conquered Israel, didn't settle peacefully. As is also recorded by other historians. There homeland is Egypt, not Israel. And, by the way, the persecution of Palestinian Christians is horrific.

[hard124get]

Er.... the Israelis did slaughter a school full of children, recently in Gaza. Over 500 children in total.

Er.... this is a bold-faced lie. It is no surprise that - as usual - you offer no credible evidence. Why do you and your ilk rely so much on fabrications that can easily be disproved?

The whole world saw the slaughter. Look at the UN report.

You are trying to distract from the LIE as posters like you usually do. You said, "the Israelis did slaughter a school full of children, recently in Gaza. Over 500 children in total." PROVE IT.

Washington Post: "In its most recent count, the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reports that 2,104 Palestinians were killed in Gaza, including 1,462 civilians, among them 495 children and 253 women. Those U.N. numbers would mean that 69 percent of the total killed were civilians."

You will probably find some twisted way to say this is not proof. The world saw the slaughter on film.

[dexterm]

Veto it. It violates the Palestinian agreement to negotiate directly with Israel under the Oslo Accords.

Israel violated the spirit of the Oslo accords years ago by continuing to steal land from the Palestinians. The accords are dead in the water.

it's time to get the peace process moving again.

[dexterm]

Another Israeli-Palestinian conflict thread, another predictable eruption of over the top anti-Israelism/anti-Zionism.

Anyway, I think it's clear that given the souring of the Obama-Netanyahu relationship, a U.S. veto is not quite as 100 percent certain as previously.

I still think the U.S. will veto, but Obama has less to lose. Doesn't need to run again and Hillary can distance herself from him in 2016 on that issue so might even benefit from it. I still think the U.S. will veto but it is interesting that it is not quite 100 percent.

For the U.S. not to veto, I reckon they would need to SOFTEN the language considerably though ... which isn't likely either.

Another chapter in a long story.

Don't you find it odd that the USA and Israel are completely out of step with the rest of the world on this issue, and that the rest of the world just may have a point. I hope the US do not kowtow to the Israelis yet again, but abstain from voting in UN, and get this peace process log jam broken.

There's a younger more aware generation of voters emerging in the US now who question the disproportionate influence the Israeli lobby has on their government, and are tired of the tail wagging the dog.