Matichon: Dissolution of the Royal Thai Police

[peecee]

Always top down in Thailand....when will they ever learn?

The answer is blowing in the wind.

[EyesWideOpen]

My god........This is the most intelligent headline I have ever seen on Thai Visa.

[abq2020]

IMHO reforms intended to reduce corruption (graft, bribes, preferential treatment for family and friends, etc., etc.) will likely, if not surely, fail because the culture of acceptance of such practices is not substantially being changed. When afore discussed corruption is endemic within a culture, it is that portion of the culture which must first be changed to effect a change in the practices. As if evidence of this is needed, recent public disclosures of graft and other corrupt practices involving numerous public officials and agencies ranging from lowest to near highest levels of Goverment should be enough to demonstrate bottom to top acceptance. Yes, reforming the procedures, checks and balances, internal controls, management structures, etc., will provide some short-term improvement. Those, however, are akin to the 'putting lipstick on a pig' analogy. The cultural and societal acceptance must be reversed to effect meaningful and long-lasting change to the practice. That, as pointed out by others in their replies, must include bottom-up changes to culture along with an aggressive top-down crackdown on the practice.

[In Search of Space]

And who will now take bribes?

More concerning is, who do we now bribe ?

[peecee]

I feel sorry for the majority of police who (far away from the tourist hot spots) carry out their duties properly and are promoted on merit. I know several police and they are sick of useless or inexperienced officers who buy themselves up the greasy pole. Junior officers are lowly paid and often have small holdings that supplement their wages, this is how corruption grows; as the odd backhander becomes a permanent way of topping up they meager salary.

Very senior officers have links to the Thai old boys nepotistic network that goes way back; so there's no way that things will change soon. Any properly constructed anti-corruption department would (in most countries) just have to look into an officers financial situation to see if their lifestyle reflects their salary, but (unless someone starts treading on some toes) it just 'aint going to happen.

[konying]

How about firing the entire force, then recruit again based on knowledge, past experience and few tests to pass.

In the mean time military can take over policing, can not be any worse than it is now

Elsewhere, it is common to use:

Application

Application screening

Written test

Physical agility/ability test

Psychological evaluation

Background check

Criminal history check

Polygraph/voice stress analyzer for deception

Interview

Then talk about hiring them.

Those that pass go to the Police Academy and then a Field Training Program.

Then a probationary period.

Annual evaluations.

Substandard are let go.

Successful officers compete for promotion via civil service testing

And pay them a living salary so they don't repeat what's been common practice.

Also, get rid of the horrid, impractical, para-military, brown costumes. Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysian Police seem to have moved into the modern era without all the ribbons, wings and other trinkets.

It sounds like a lot and time consuming. Correct on both counts. Buy chep. Buy twice.

Thailand only need look south to the Singapore Police and the great job they have done since the 1960s and 70s.

.

Oh yes the Singapore Police force is rather strong, and they should be considering their huge numbers backed up with some 40,000 Auxiliary police which are now used in a more active role for enforcement and response tasks. I would wonder who is going to formulate the structure proposed with the people and experience just to manage it most likely being the very ones being fired.

As to the cost, it would be huge, along with the associated wage increases for police, I'm not sure the country could take it, socially, imagine police salaries coming up to 60K a month. I'd hope its just accepted and is not a new source of animosity.

Does not have to be that high, unless for high ranks.

Starting salary of 25k I believe would be a good start, averaging 40k.

Provide police cars and bikes, instead of expecting officers to use their own.

It's an expanse no doubt, but of you want to be corruption free with all the bells and whistles , you have to organise your office.

Reevaluate taxation system and hand outs system, if it all too hard, then leave it alone instead of making big waves without any change.

PS. Get rid of at least half the generals in the army as well. I believe thailand has 1 general per 1000 soldiers or something like that, one of the highest ratio's in the world .

[Theoutsider]

Corruption is a secondary concern. I think they need to learn what it means. Or is this lost in translation

[greenchair]

Does anybody remember the itsy bitsy budget allocated to the police this year. In comparison to the flouncy bouncy big budget of the military.

There lies part of the problem.

[smotherb]

As long as the junta and the military stay out of it...it sounds good.

It has been done before in other countries. But there should be a body that can investigate just how certain police officers received their positions, if they paid for them, which i believe many do, and who received the money. There should be some favourable incentive for those who disclose this information, but anyone proved to have withheld this information should be demoted.

Yes, great plan: use the good guys to oust the bad guys. Let's see, er, uh, . . . .

[DrTuner]

Memorandum of understanding that something needs to be done. I hope they wrote it on the two layer stuff so the finger won't break through when wiping.

[manarak]

Reorganizing the police is certainly not a bad move!

If they could do away with the required promotion money, I think police corruption will by greatly reduced.

(currently, candidates for promotion must find a large amount of money to pay the bribe, and most take loans from persons who then effectively control the promoted officer)

Forest and Railway police are really secondary concerns, but I would welcome the creation of traffic police that would include the highway police.

You have a very good point but the same issues happens to the Royal Thai Army, Air Force and Navy and no one dares to look into their books.

The difference is that the armed forces are not responsible for enforcing laws - at least as long as the country isn't under martial law.

Corruption is mainly a police thing - both being corrupt and being theretically responsible for suppressing it.

[Daoregonian]

Does anyone know if this might impact the Thailand Elite 'Easy Access' 5-Year visa? Isn't it a Thaksin operated system?

[noitom]

They should start first with a civilian defense minister who the army reports to and then that defense minister would lead the reform of the military and create a model for the police to follow.

[flyingdoc]

About time! But what real effect?

[fritzzz25]

A BIG WOW!

Total shot across the bows and blowing the figurehead off of the police ship.

Give assorted ministries security budgets that exceed the police force budgets spent on the ministries security,

and you cut down on ministry disloyalty and so spying to the police hierarchy on ministry decisions,

and thus reducing the corruption for the BIB security, used to justify making ends meet.

Splitting up forces from central command and splitting off the hiring firing committee, so that lower down,

less beholden players make the local hire/fire decisions, seems prudent too.

Should low the graft taking needed to gain advancement up the force.

Taking Thaksin's political control away is a bedrock must do,

and this looks like a well thought out way to achieve that.

Thaksin's control is top down, if you divide the top echelons and pit them against each other,

and put in leaders that can not be swayed back to Thaksinistas, then it effectively cuts his feet off.

Which you put in a new cork in several smaller jugs, it is much harder to syphon off the contents,

than if it is one old cork in a big barrel.

There is more to this no doubt, but this alone is a major sea change.

The buzz around the office is that this is not a done deal yet.

So JD, how would you know what is "the buzz" in the office. You say you only have "casual" RTP acquaintances. Please enlighten us all.....

[EyesWideOpen]

I feel sorry for the majority of police who (far away from the tourist hot spots) carry out their duties properly and are promoted on merit. I know several police and they are sick of useless or inexperienced officers who buy themselves up the greasy pole. Junior officers are lowly paid and often have small holdings that supplement their wages, this is how corruption grows; as the odd backhander becomes a permanent way of topping up they meager salary.

Very senior officers have links to the Thai old boys nepotistic network that goes way back; so there's no way that things will change soon. Any properly constructed anti-corruption department would (in most countries) just have to look into an officers financial situation to see if their lifestyle reflects their salary, but (unless someone starts treading on some toes) it just 'aint going to happen.

How can the rural police be bastions of good behavior ? My understanding was that

every police position was bought, therefor they must be corrupt in order to pay back

the money they borrowed to buy the position.....

[Benmart]

How about firing the entire force, then recruit again based on knowledge, past experience and few tests to pass.

In the mean time military can take over policing, can not be any worse than it is now

Elsewhere, it is common to use:

Application

Application screening

Written test

Physical agility/ability test

Psychological evaluation

Background check

Criminal history check

Polygraph/voice stress analyzer for deception

Interview

Then talk about hiring them.

Those that pass go to the Police Academy and then a Field Training Program.

Then a probationary period.

Annual evaluations.

Substandard are let go.

Successful officers compete for promotion via civil service testing

And pay them a living salary so they don't repeat what's been common practice.

Also, get rid of the horrid, impractical, para-military, brown costumes. Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysian Police seem to have moved into the modern era without all the ribbons, wings and other trinkets.

It sounds like a lot and time consuming. Correct on both counts. Buy chep. Buy twice.

Thailand only need look south to the Singapore Police and the great job they have done since the 1960s and 70s.

.

Oh yes the Singapore Police force is rather strong, and they should be considering their huge numbers backed up with some 40,000 Auxiliary police which are now used in a more active role for enforcement and response tasks. I would wonder who is going to formulate the structure proposed with the people and experience just to manage it most likely being the very ones being fired.

As to the cost, it would be huge, along with the associated wage increases for police, I'm not sure the country could take it, socially, imagine police salaries coming up to 60K a month. I'd hope its just accepted and is not a new source of animosity.

Very good points.

Singapore didn't turn it's police force around overnight. It took political will, many years of hard work,

and a great deal of money.

Considering how much money seems to have been siphoned off by corrupt Generals, the investment to reorganize seems well worth the effort.

I wish the country and the Thai people good luck.

[jaywalker]

My Mom got pulled over today in Florida. The cop asked her if she had just passed through that school zone a ways back.

(oh yeah he didn't run out in the road on foot like a maniac & flag her over - he got behind her & turned on his blue lights).

Mom, being 78, and a devout Christian who would never lie, admitted that she had in fact just passed through the school zone, during school hours, when the speed limit is reduced to 25 MPH/40 KPH.

The cop said "Congratulations. You did it perfectly", and handed her a $25 gift certificate for a local grocery store.

I can imagine handing 800 baht Big C vouchers out to the RTP to distribute like that!!!

[climbertrev1]

Reorganizing the police is certainly not a bad move!

If they could do away with the required promotion money, I think police corruption will by greatly reduced.

(currently, candidates for promotion must find a large amount of money to pay the bribe, and most take loans from persons who then effectively control the promoted officer)

Forest and Railway police are really secondary concerns, but I would welcome the creation of traffic police that would include the highway police.

Eradicating all corruption throughout would of course be a good thing. This has to include the military as well. Does anyone know if candidates seeking promotion in the army also have to pay a bribe. If so this should cease first and foremost.

[Benmart]

Reorganizing the police is certainly not a bad move!

If they could do away with the required promotion money, I think police corruption will by greatly reduced.

(currently, candidates for promotion must find a large amount of money to pay the bribe, and most take loans from persons who then effectively control the promoted officer)

Forest and Railway police are really secondary concerns, but I would welcome the creation of traffic police that would include the highway police.

Eradicating all corruption throughout would of course be a good thing. This has to include the military as well. Does anyone know if candidates seeking promotion in the army also have to pay a bribe. If so this should cease first and foremost.

Good points.

The police seem to have the most contact with the general public and thereby have numerous opportunities to extort and abuse.

Clean one room at a time and eventually the entire house will be taken care of.

[jdinasia]

A BIG WOW!

Total shot across the bows and blowing the figurehead off of the police ship.

Give assorted ministries security budgets that exceed the police force budgets spent on the ministries security,

and you cut down on ministry disloyalty and so spying to the police hierarchy on ministry decisions,

and thus reducing the corruption for the BIB security, used to justify making ends meet.

Splitting up forces from central command and splitting off the hiring firing committee, so that lower down,

less beholden players make the local hire/fire decisions, seems prudent too.

Should low the graft taking needed to gain advancement up the force.

Taking Thaksin's political control away is a bedrock must do,

and this looks like a well thought out way to achieve that.

Thaksin's control is top down, if you divide the top echelons and pit them against each other,

and put in leaders that can not be swayed back to Thaksinistas, then it effectively cuts his feet off.

Which you put in a new cork in several smaller jugs, it is much harder to syphon off the contents,

than if it is one old cork in a big barrel.

There is more to this no doubt, but this alone is a major sea change.

The buzz around the office is that this is not a done deal yet.

So JD, how would you know what is "the buzz" in the office. You say you only have "casual" RTP acquaintances. Please enlighten us all.....

My office isn't RTP, nor did I suggest it was.

I understand that you are embarrassed by our last exchange but there's no need to stalk me to other topics

[MaxLee]

So in other words,.... just putting the old wine into the new bottle, shake it up with some secret staging inactive posts.... and corruption within the police force has just been replaced the old new way.

In other words,.... old new crap with business as usual....

[halloween]

Talk about cleaning the Augean stables (but here's a hint, concentrate on the job at hand, and leave the Hydra until later) and the resemblance goes beyond the difficulty.

Can I suggest one way to stop payments for appointment/position is to remove the incentive. Set up an elite plain clothes unit (including elderly and women) whose job is commit minor offences and report any officer soliciting/taking a bribe, the penalty being dismissal with loss of all benefits. Big hard sticks work better then carrots to fat donkeys.

[The Deerhunter]

Still trying to get my head around this report. Who is Matichon? Is this really happening or just someone's suggestion? f it is really going to happen when is start date.

PS I loved the post way back where someone suggested that the Immigration service be split off too. Too many highly paid chair warmers there. If they wanna be police let 'em be police!!! Immigration needs an enforcement arm but preferably just prompt availability real police with Immigration expertise when really necessary. It does NOT need to be an arm of the main police force, like it is. In most countries Immigration is part of Labour or internal affairs departments.

[LazarusRising]

Whatever they do should be exactly duplicated with the organisation that has all the real crooks - the Thai military.

[me313]

How can so many people claim to know the internal politics and political leanings of "the police" when there are no public reports that I know of except that there is an alleged tie between Thaksin and police forces, which implies the police necessarily follow with populist leanings, but on the other hand these same (foreign) commentators claim the police are corrupt and only interested in money. The wrong puzzle pieces fit when you force them into the wrong spaces and are conveniently used as labels applied in a most broad and general sense to prove one point one day, and another point of an entirely different perspective on some other day to support an opposing premise.

There is an entire shift in Thai politics and society and I think it has more to do with fitting into the more broad agenda of the upcoming ASEAN partnerships than in any Thai internal political improvement.

[fritzzz25]

A BIG WOW!

Total shot across the bows and blowing the figurehead off of the police ship.

Give assorted ministries security budgets that exceed the police force budgets spent on the ministries security,

and you cut down on ministry disloyalty and so spying to the police hierarchy on ministry decisions,

and thus reducing the corruption for the BIB security, used to justify making ends meet.

Splitting up forces from central command and splitting off the hiring firing committee, so that lower down,

less beholden players make the local hire/fire decisions, seems prudent too.

Should low the graft taking needed to gain advancement up the force.

Taking Thaksin's political control away is a bedrock must do,

and this looks like a well thought out way to achieve that.

Thaksin's control is top down, if you divide the top echelons and pit them against each other,

and put in leaders that can not be swayed back to Thaksinistas, then it effectively cuts his feet off.

Which you put in a new cork in several smaller jugs, it is much harder to syphon off the contents,

than if it is one old cork in a big barrel.

There is more to this no doubt, but this alone is a major sea change.

The buzz around the office is that this is not a done deal yet.

So JD, how would you know what is "the buzz" in the office. You say you only have "casual" RTP acquaintances. Please enlighten us all.....

My office isn't RTP, nor did I suggest it was.

I understand that you are embarrassed by our last exchange but there's no need to stalk me to other topics

And again you did not answer the question. Please go back and read your post, then answer it without deflection.

[jdinasia]

A BIG WOW!

Total shot across the bows and blowing the figurehead off of the police ship.

Give assorted ministries security budgets that exceed the police force budgets spent on the ministries security,

and you cut down on ministry disloyalty and so spying to the police hierarchy on ministry decisions,

and thus reducing the corruption for the BIB security, used to justify making ends meet.

Splitting up forces from central command and splitting off the hiring firing committee, so that lower down,

less beholden players make the local hire/fire decisions, seems prudent too.

Should low the graft taking needed to gain advancement up the force.

Taking Thaksin's political control away is a bedrock must do,

and this looks like a well thought out way to achieve that.

Thaksin's control is top down, if you divide the top echelons and pit them against each other,

and put in leaders that can not be swayed back to Thaksinistas, then it effectively cuts his feet off.

Which you put in a new cork in several smaller jugs, it is much harder to syphon off the contents,

than if it is one old cork in a big barrel.

There is more to this no doubt, but this alone is a major sea change.

The buzz around the office is that this is not a done deal yet.

So JD, how would you know what is "the buzz" in the office. You say you only have "casual" RTP acquaintances. Please enlighten us all.....

My office isn't RTP, nor did I suggest it was.

I understand that you are embarrassed by our last exchange but there's no need to stalk me to other topics

And again you did not answer the question. Please go back and read your post, then answer it without deflection.

Umm I work in my office and have ears.

That whole laceration fiasco must have been painful....

[rickirs]

"Since Thaksin’s first days in power, the police were groomed to once again become a force that could counterbalance the power of the military in politics."

It is understandable that the Thai military will not tolerate any check and balance against its political power. Not from Thaksin or any other elected government official. How else could the military always have such a free hand to subvert and overthrow an elected government when it perceives any diminuation of its authority? Thai military coups are an act of self-preservation for its High Command. And so while we witness the dissolution of the RTP as a political ally for an elected government it will be a only a far-future possibility that the same would ever be considered for the military. And so faux democracy is Thailand's only immediate choice.

[horisize]

Start with paying them a livable wage - and supplying all their equipment rather than being forced to buy it, then crack down on corruption.

Stop paying them. see how many wanna be a peace officer.