Myanmar says workers innocent of murdering Britons on Koh Tao

[IslandLover]

BritTim, on 24 Dec 2014 - 09:02, said:BritTim, on 24 Dec 2014 - 09:02, said:

greenchair, on 24 Dec 2014 - 08:47, said:greenchair, on 24 Dec 2014 - 08:47, said:

Well exactly what I was thinking. Trying to group evidence rather than having it all over the place. Unfortunately your post will get lost any minute now, as the trolls will be out soon.

Apparently they did not leave together. David went back to his room with Chris. Then said he was going to find hannah as he was worried about her. Nobody knows why hannah was not with her friends.

However, in my opinion we can all speculate all we want. I try to stay out of it. I try to focus on finding the evidence or witness that can come forward to slam dunk the boys innocence.

I thought it would be interesting to have a page devoted to pictures. A page devoted to anonymous witnesses who can provide just the information you are seeking. I am so happy to have somebody reply to my post good or bad. Thanks

This post is exactly why I think a carefully researched account with sources is potentially so useful. Most sources suggest they left together at 1:00 am. Apparently, according to you, this is wrong. Do you have a good link for David and Chris Ware's movements after the party?

There is a great deal of confusion in the press over David and Hannah's movements on the night of the murders but early reports that they left together at 1 a.m. have since been discounted. This theory came from CCTV footage which misidentified the pair. The Daily telegraph has some information:

What happened after Mr Miller and Ms Witheridge left AC Bar, apparently in different groups, remains a mystery.

It also adds credence to the belief that they were not a couple as such.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11117396/Last-picture-of-British-backpackers-murdered-on-Thai-island.html

In addition, I have seen a report where Chris Ware stated that he and David went together to get a sandwich in the early hours of the morning and then (presumably) went back to their room. Chris said David then went out again to buy a packet of cigarettes (or to look for Hannah as some reports say). Unfortunately I cannot find that article at the moment. As far as I know the last CCTV footage of David was taken at 1.27 a.m. when he came into contact with the man wearing the no. 9 football shirt and he appeared to be walking alone.

http://news.sky.com/story/1338593/thailand-cctv-of-british-man-killed-on-beach

EDIT: here's another article about additional CCTV footage taken at 1.57 a.m. which shows David and some other westerners, but not Hannah.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-beach-murders-new-cctv-footage-emerges-david-miller-koh-tao-island-1466353

Edited December 26, 2014 by IslandLover

[Briggsy]

Since the other thread has been locked.

BBC News report

It is now worth remarking the Metropolitan Police issued this on the BBC

"The Metropolitan Police says there's confusion and inconsistencies in the investigation in Thailand into the murder of 2 British tourists on the island of Koh Tao. Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September. Scotland Yard, which is observing the Thai enquiry, says there are questions about the strength of the case against the 2 men from Burma charged with murder."

Thanks to draftvader for typing that out.

[Willy Eckerslike]

Since the other thread has been locked.

BBC News report

It is now worth remarking the Metropolitan Police issued this on the BBC

"The Metropolitan Police says there's confusion and inconsistencies in the investigation in Thailand into the murder of 2 British tourists on the island of Koh Tao. Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September. Scotland Yard, which is observing the Thai enquiry, says there are questions about the strength of the case against the 2 men from Burma charged with murder."

Thanks to draftvader for typing that out.

Briggsy, the most active thread on this subject is as below

http://newsletter.thaivisa.com/l/5YuIPaGNGD1KJvCfpXY7Qw/53f0763X68929pvyRo9jNf0aFQ/4kYWSsxAiALTOr7xKrR23g

[greenchair]

BritTim, on 24 Dec 2014 - 09:02, said:BritTim, on 24 Dec 2014 - 09:02, said:

greenchair, on 24 Dec 2014 - 08:47, said:greenchair, on 24 Dec 2014 - 08:47, said:

Well exactly what I was thinking. Trying to group evidence rather than having it all over the place. Unfortunately your post will get lost any minute now, as the trolls will be out soon.Apparently they did not leave together. David went back to his room with Chris. Then said he was going to find hannah as he was worried about her. Nobody knows why hannah was not with her friends.

However, in my opinion we can all speculate all we want. I try to stay out of it. I try to focus on finding the evidence or witness that can come forward to slam dunk the boys innocence.

I thought it would be interesting to have a page devoted to pictures. A page devoted to anonymous witnesses who can provide just the information you are seeking. I am so happy to have somebody reply to my post good or bad. Thanks

This post is exactly why I think a carefully researched account with sources is potentially so useful. Most sources suggest they left together at 1:00 am. Apparently, according to you, this is wrong. Do you have a good link for David and Chris Ware's movements after the party?

There is a great deal of confusion in the press over David and Hannah's movements on the night of the murders but early reports that they left together at 1 a.m. have since been discounted. This theory came from CCTV footage which misidentified the pair. The Daily telegraph has some information:

What happened after Mr Miller and Ms Witheridge left AC Bar, apparently in different groups, remains a mystery.

It also adds credence to the belief that they were not a couple as such.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11117396/Last-picture-of-British-backpackers-murdered-on-Thai-island.html

In addition, I have seen a report where Chris Ware stated that he and David went together to get a sandwich in the early hours of the morning and then (presumably) went back to their room. Chris said David then went out again to buy a packet of cigarettes (or to look for Hannah as some reports say). Unfortunately I cannot find that article at the moment. As far as I know the last CCTV footage of David was taken at 1.27 a.m. when he came into contact with the man wearing the no. 9 football shirt and he appeared to be walking alone.

http://news.sky.com/story/1338593/thailand-cctv-of-british-man-killed-on-beach

EDIT: here's another article about additional CCTV footage taken at 1.57 a.m. which shows David and some other westerners, but not Hannah.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-beach-murders-new-cctv-footage-emerges-david-miller-koh-tao-island-1466353

Yes, the biggest question was.

Why was hannah not with her friends. That's why people thought it important for the brit police to interview all the brit witnesses that were there. To be clear about those 2 questions. Obviously the British police did not interview anyone.

[greenchair]

Since the other thread has been locked.

BBC News report

It is now worth remarking the Metropolitan Police issued this on the BBC

"The Metropolitan Police says there's confusion and inconsistencies in the investigation in Thailand into the murder of 2 British tourists on the island of Koh Tao. Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September. Scotland Yard, which is observing the Thai enquiry, says there are questions about the strength of the case against the 2 men from Burma charged with murder."

Thanks to draftvader for typing that out.

I thought this was worth looking at.

[greenchair]

Now it's going to be extremely difficult to keep this in the news for 7 months. Making it easier to have this swept under the carpet and kept behind closed doors. I will do my best to make a post a day. And a donation when I am able. It would be great if someone could go to England an interview some of the friends and talk with the coroner , go to France and interview Sean, get an independent dna test. I guess the next news to wait for is the coroners report.

[DennisF]

Now it's going to be extremely difficult to keep this in the news for 7 months. Making it easier to have this swept under the carpet and kept behind closed doors. I will do my best to make a post a day. And a donation when I am able. It would be great if someone could go to England an interview some of the friends and talk with the coroner , go to France and interview Sean, get an independent dna test. I guess the next news to wait for is the coroners report.

It is an issue but I do believe that we will see revelations/leaks on a regular basis.

This defence team seems pretty switched on, they know the importance of public support.

[greenchair]

Now it's going to be extremely difficult to keep this in the news for 7 months. Making it easier to have this swept under the carpet and kept behind closed doors. I will do my best to make a post a day. And a donation when I am able. It would be great if someone could go to England an interview some of the friends and talk with the coroner , go to France and interview Sean, get an independent dna test. I guess the next news to wait for is the coroners report.

It is an issue but I do believe that we will see revelations/leaks on a regular basis.

This defence team seems pretty switched on, they know the importance of public support.

I am trying to put together a time with video footage. This place is not being used much. I think I will start here. Start tomorrow. Off to sleep now.

[greenchair]

So far I have a few facts taken from video and news reports.

1:27 David go to hotel.

1:56 David last seen.

2:58 hannah last seen.

6:30 bodies discovered.

I am looking for time of boys on motorbike and time Muang bought cigarettes. Any pictures would be great.

[greenchair]

So far I have a few facts taken from video and news reports.

1:27 David go to hotel.

1:56 David last seen.

2:58 hannah last seen.

6:30 bodies discovered.

I am looking for time of boys on motorbike and time Muang bought cigarettes. Any pictures would be great.

I have been sent these picture now.

Can anybody help find the running in black shorts.

With the time. We have the picture but need time.

And the pic of mon at the beach with the time.

[greenchair]

Does hannah friend have facebook.

[greenchair]

Time update.

23:10 boys on motorbike.

23:12 Muang buys cigarettes.

1:27 David go hotel.

1:56 David last seen.

2:58 hannah last seen.

3:44 run man white shorts.

4:51.25 foreigner with thai.

5:51.28 run man white shorts.

5:45 Muang goes to collect

guitar .

5:46 foreigner with thai again.

Does anyone have any time to contribute.

Does anyone have confirmed source of Muang going to get guitar at 5:45.

[StealthEnergiser]

So far I have a few facts taken from video and news reports.

1:27 David go to hotel.

1:56 David last seen.

2:58 hannah last seen.

6:30 bodies discovered.

I am looking for time of boys on motorbike and time Muang bought cigarettes. Any pictures would be great.

David Miller and Hannah Witheridge, who had met on Koh Tao in the Gulf of Thailand, are thought to have been murdered at around 4.30am after leaving a beachside bar on the island together.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/dna-tests-reveal-three-killers-in-tourist-murder-inquiry-30601659.html

[millwall_fan]

More damning evidence. This case needs independently investigating using the DNA samples held by the British police.

[BritTim]

More damning evidence. This case needs independently investigating using the DNA samples held by the British police.

There is real doubt as to whether the British police have any DNA samples. They certainly did not collect any in Thailand. It is known that post mortems were carried out by the Home Office pathologist, but I think any DNA testing on foreign substances found in or on the bodies would only have been at police or coroner request.

[greenchair]

So far I have a few facts taken from video and news reports.

1:27 David go to hotel.

1:56 David last seen.

2:58 hannah last seen.

6:30 bodies discovered.

I am looking for time of boys on motorbike and time Muang bought cigarettes. Any pictures would be great.

David Miller and Hannah Witheridge, who had met on Koh Tao in the Gulf of Thailand, are thought to have been murdered at around 4.30am after leaving a beachside bar on the island together.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/asia-pacific/dna-tests-reveal-three-killers-in-tourist-murder-inquiry-30601659.html

That was an early report. When they were trying to say the 2 were having sex on the beach. Later reports by hannah friends and Chris Ware + video footage confirmed they went their separate ways after leaving .there is no video throughout the night of them together.

I will add 4:30 to my time. But they were discovered between 6:00-6:30 David was still bleeding. After the heart stops the blood only flows a short time.

Edited December 31, 2014 by greenchair

[greenchair]

Timeline recap.

23:10 boys on the motorbike.

23:12 Muang buys cigarettes.

1:27 David go hotel.

1:56 David last seen.

2:58 hannah last seen.

3:44 run man white shorts.

4:51.25 run man white shorts.

4:51.28 foreigner with thai.

5:00 Muang sees b2 asleep.

5:45 Muang goes back ac bar.

5:46 foreigner with thai

4:30-6:00 time incident.

6:30 bodies discovered.

Suspects in video footage.

Mon

Sean

Muang

Nomsod

Suspects not on video

Cop

Stingray Man

Ladyboy with blonde hair.

Possible witness

Foreigner with thai.

Edited December 31, 2014 by greenchair

[greenchair]

Timeline recap.

23:10 boys on the motorbike.

23:12 Muang buys cigarettes.

1:27 David go hotel.

1:56 David last seen.

2:58 hannah last seen.

3:44 run man white shorts.

4:51.25 run man white shorts.

4:51.28 foreigner with thai.

5:00 Muang sees b2 asleep.

5:45 Muang goes back ac bar.

5:46 foreigner with thai

4:30-6:00 time incident.

6:30 bodies discovered.

Suspects in video footage.

Mon

Sean

Muang

Nomsod

Suspects not on video

Cop

Stingray Man

Ladyboy with blonde hair.

Possible witness

Foreigner with thai.

Does anyone know of a newspaper clipping that says Muang went to get the guitar. ?

[greenchair]

Doesn't anyone have tidbit to add to my timeline and list of suspects. surely there must be a couple of sherlock holmes out there.

The arrow seems to point to this one or that one. But never seems to point to the b2. Not seen anything suspicious about them. Except they stopped at a shop to buy ciggies. ?

[catsanddogs]

Doesn't anyone have tidbit to add to my timeline and list of suspects. surely there must be a couple of sherlock holmes out there.

The arrow seems to point to this one or that one. But never seems to point to the b2. Not seen anything suspicious about them. Except they stopped at a shop to buy ciggies. ?

There was an article saying what time he went to collect his guitar, which I think said around 5am but as yet I can't find it. Did find this though which I hadn't read before -

And “eyewitness” Maung Maung, roommate of the accused. Police claimed he saw the rape of the English woman and the subsequent murders. But Maung Maung, who has been “kept in custody” as police quaintly put it, also got a chance to see his embassy and a lawyer. And he says he saw nothing, because he wasn’t even on the beach after 1am, when he left the other two playing songs on a guitar and sipping beer.

He went to see his girlfriend, Maung Maung continued. When he returned to the room shared by the three migrants at 5am on the murder day, his two friends were sleeping, nothing was disturbed or suspicious. The killings are thought to have occurred early on Sept 15, probably between 4am and 5am.

Oct 12th

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/the-big-issue-the-unsolved-murders-of-british-tourists.html

[catsanddogs]

Doesn't anyone have tidbit to add to my timeline and list of suspects. surely there must be a couple of sherlock holmes out there.

The arrow seems to point to this one or that one. But never seems to point to the b2. Not seen anything suspicious about them. Except they stopped at a shop to buy ciggies. ?

There was an article saying what time he went to collect his guitar, which I think said around 5am but as yet I can't find it. Did find this though which I hadn't read before -

And “eyewitness” Maung Maung, roommate of the accused. Police claimed he saw the rape of the English woman and the subsequent murders. But Maung Maung, who has been “kept in custody” as police quaintly put it, also got a chance to see his embassy and a lawyer. And he says he saw nothing, because he wasn’t even on the beach after 1am, when he left the other two playing songs on a guitar and sipping beer.

He went to see his girlfriend, Maung Maung continued. When he returned to the room shared by the three migrants at 5am on the murder day, his two friends were sleeping, nothing was disturbed or suspicious. The killings are thought to have occurred early on Sept 15, probably between 4am and 5am.

Oct 12th

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/the-big-issue-the-unsolved-murders-of-british-tourists.html

And this - but no time stated when he went to collect guitar -

According to Kyaw Thaung: “Maung Maung said he woke them up and asked them, ‘Where is the guitar?’ at which point one of the pair indicated it was in AC Bar [where the British couple, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, had been drinking with friends the night before]. Maung Maung said he then went to AC Bar to look for the guitar and his sandals, ‘because they were expensive – 350 baht’, he said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/third-burmese-said-he-did-not-witness-murder-burma-myanmar/44856

(9th Oct)

[greenchair]

Super piece by top cat.

Timeline update ⏳

11:10 boys on motorbike.

11 :12 Muang buys cigarettes

1 am:Muang leaves boys at beach.

1:27 David go hotel

1:56 David last seen

2:58 hannah last seen

3:44 run man white shorts

4:00-5:00 attack time.

4:00 Sean go ac bloody????

4:51.15 run man white shorts.

4:51.28 foreigner with thai

???? Run man black shorts.

5:00 Muang sees boys asleep

5:45 Muang goes ac bar??????

5:46 foreigner with thai

6:00-6:30 bodies discovered.

Still looking for news Muang went to get guitar.?

News source Sean went to bar 4:00 ?

Run man black shorts time?

[greenchair]

Doesn't anyone have tidbit to add to my timeline and list of suspects. surely there must be a couple of sherlock holmes out there.

The arrow seems to point to this one or that one. But never seems to point to the b2. Not seen anything suspicious about them. Except they stopped at a shop to buy ciggies. ?

There was an article saying what time he went to collect his guitar, which I think said around 5am but as yet I can't find it. Did find this though which I hadn't read before -

And eyewitness Maung Maung, roommate of the accused. Police claimed he saw the rape of the English woman and the subsequent murders. But Maung Maung, who has been kept in custody as police quaintly put it, also got a chance to see his embassy and a lawyer. And he says he saw nothing, because he wasnt even on the beach after 1am, when he left the other two playing songs on a guitar and sipping beer.

He went to see his girlfriend, Maung Maung continued. When he returned to the room shared by the three migrants at 5am on the murder day, his two friends were sleeping, nothing was disturbed or suspicious. The killings are thought to have occurred early on Sept 15, probably between 4am and 5am.

Oct 12th

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/the-big-issue-the-unsolved-murders-of-british-tourists.html

And this - but no time stated when he went to collect guitar -

According to Kyaw Thaung: Maung Maung said he woke them up and asked them, Where is the guitar? at which point one of the pair indicated it was in AC Bar [where the British couple, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, had been drinking with friends the night before]. Maung Maung said he then went to AC Bar to look for the guitar and his sandals, because they were expensive 350 baht, he said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/third-burmese-said-he-did-not-witness-murder-burma-myanmar/44856

(9th Oct)

See he says they bought 3 bottles of beer.

Then later he went back to the room and got more alcohol for them.

So Muang timeline ⏳

11:12 went buy beer

1:00 am went to room to get alcohol.

????must have gone back to give it to them. Say 20 minutes.

1:30 girlfriends.

5:00 back to boys room.

5:45 back to bar get shoes.

Sorry but I have had to place Muang back on the suspect list.

I am looking for the news report the boys went swimming.

[greenchair]

I am wondering why Muang and b2 were not working from 11:00 to 2:30 . I thought all bars closed at that time. Was it their holiday?

[mauGR1]

I am wondering why Muang and b2 were not working from 11:00 to 2:30 . I thought all bars closed at that time. Was it their holiday?

I think i read somewhere that it was their day off.

[greenchair]

I am wondering why Muang and b2 were not working from 11:00 to 2:30 . I thought all bars closed at that time. Was it their holiday?

I think i read somewhere that it was their day off.

Dunno. Migrant workers often don't get a day off. Not all together anyway.

[catsanddogs]

Doesn't anyone have tidbit to add to my timeline and list of suspects. surely there must be a couple of sherlock holmes out there.

The arrow seems to point to this one or that one. But never seems to point to the b2. Not seen anything suspicious about them. Except they stopped at a shop to buy ciggies. ?

There was an article saying what time he went to collect his guitar, which I think said around 5am but as yet I can't find it. Did find this though which I hadn't read before -

And eyewitness Maung Maung, roommate of the accused. Police claimed he saw the rape of the English woman and the subsequent murders. But Maung Maung, who has been kept in custody as police quaintly put it, also got a chance to see his embassy and a lawyer. And he says he saw nothing, because he wasnt even on the beach after 1am, when he left the other two playing songs on a guitar and sipping beer.

He went to see his girlfriend, Maung Maung continued. When he returned to the room shared by the three migrants at 5am on the murder day, his two friends were sleeping, nothing was disturbed or suspicious. The killings are thought to have occurred early on Sept 15, probably between 4am and 5am.

Oct 12th

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/the-big-issue-the-unsolved-murders-of-british-tourists.html

And this - but no time stated when he went to collect guitar -

According to Kyaw Thaung: Maung Maung said he woke them up and asked them, Where is the guitar? at which point one of the pair indicated it was in AC Bar [where the British couple, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, had been drinking with friends the night before]. Maung Maung said he then went to AC Bar to look for the guitar and his sandals, because they were expensive 350 baht, he said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/third-burmese-said-he-did-not-witness-murder-burma-myanmar/44856

(9th Oct)

See he says they bought 3 bottles of beer.

Then later he went back to the room and got more alcohol for them.

So Muang timeline ⏳

11:12 went buy beer

1:00 am went to room to get alcohol.

????must have gone back to give it to them. Say 20 minutes.

1:30 girlfriends.

5:00 back to boys room.

5:45 back to bar get shoes.

Sorry but I have had to place Muang back on the suspect list.

I am looking for the news report the boys went swimming.

MAT representative Kyaw Thaung reconfirmed the testimony the legal team had been told. “After finishing the beer and cigarettes, Maung Maung said he told his two friends he was leaving, but they insisted on having more to drink, so he went back to the room and got an extra bottle of alcohol and took it to them. That was all around 1am,” he said.

“Maung Maung said he then went to see his girlfriend and did not return until 5am.”

According to Kyaw Thaung: “Maung Maung said he woke them up and asked them, ‘Where is the guitar?’ at which point one of the pair indicated it was in AC Bar [where the British couple, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, had been drinking with friends the night before]. Maung Maung said he then went to AC Bar to look for the guitar and his sandals, ‘because they were expensive – 350 baht’, he said.

(DVB)

The above is not much help, sorry. Seems it was after five and sometime before the bodies were found that Maung went to get guitar.

The question that's come into my head now after re reading reports is why was the guitar at the AC bar?

It sounds as if the guitar must have belonged to Maung Maung (hence his concern about going back to get it). If there was only one guitar, which we are led to believe, then he must have left it with the other two and one of these other two must have taken it to the AC bar before they went home to bed. Why would they do this? Why not take it home with them. Or alternatively someone else took the guitar off them and left it at the bar. If so, why would someone do this?

I don't think Maung Maung is guilty but I do think he was possibly a witness to the crime or to someone involved with the crime.

If one of the men took the guitar back to the bar then someone would have seen them. And the men may have seen things happening that made them want to get home and hide under their bed covers.

[tattoodrob]

i bet the cctv footage from AC Bar would make very interesting viewing(probably deleted already now anyway),its a surprise it was not released by the owner if B2 were actually really guilty!!!

i also did wonder if the boys were playing guitar on the beach then supposedly murdered 2 strangers then why/how did the guitar end up back at the bar,they took it back after doing 2 vicious grizzly murders then went to bed and slept like babies ,really doesnt seem possible does it!!

Edited January 2, 2015 by tattoodrob

[greenchair]

i bet the cctv footage from AC Bar would make very interesting viewing(probably deleted already now anyway),its a surprise it was not released by the owner if B2 were actually really guilty!!!

i also did wonder if the boys were playing guitar on the beach then supposedly murdered 2 strangers then why/how did the guitar end up back at the bar,they took it back after doing 2 vicious grizzly murders then went to bed and slept like babies ,really doesnt seem possible does it!!

Yes, why would they take the guitar back to the bar.

All these stories are just not matching up.

Suspects.

Mon ?

Cop

Stingray Man.

Nomsod ?

Nomsods brother.

Sean?

Muang ?

Wei

Zaw

?these people have had conflicting stories.

[BritTim]

And this - but no time stated when he went to collect guitar -

According to Kyaw Thaung: “Maung Maung said he woke them up and asked them, ‘Where is the guitar?’ at which point one of the pair indicated it was in AC Bar [where the British couple, Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, had been drinking with friends the night before]. Maung Maung said he then went to AC Bar to look for the guitar and his sandals, ‘because they were expensive – 350 baht’, he said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/third-burmese-said-he-did-not-witness-murder-burma-myanmar/44856

(9th Oct)

Well, well. I had missed this important tidbit. If accurate, the B2 presumably took the guitar to AC Bar before returning home. There must be CCTV of them doing so. I wonder what time.