Meat exposed in open tubs

[balo]

I sgree that its the preparation before you cook the meat that can be dangerous,

You need to wash you hands all the time and with soap . you need to clean everything in hot water that has been in contact with the raw meat to be safe .

After you cook it the chicken is no problems as long as its well done.

[kurtramsbottom]

This is Thailand.

Most.(all) meat in my town is sold fresh from the cleaver, to the tray, never refridigerated.

I have been buying from these vendors for years.

I check , bu smelling, for freshness.

Neither I or anyone in my family have even been ill from eating it!

Common sense says washing and cooking it properly is a necessity. ( duh! )

The meat I buy here is much fresher than the cold stored meat sold in the super markets in the western world and I believe safer to eat.

Stay in western wannabe Thailand where people make a fortune off of your phobias.

They love you and your phobias.

This http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/homehygiene/Pages/washing-chicken-can-cause-campylobacter-food-poisoning.aspx say's one should never wash raw Chicken...Don't shoot the messenger.

[Baghdad]

I hope that this is the wave of the future for Thailand -- and the concept becomes a sales method to copy-cat...

http://www.betagro.com/index_en.php

It is not OCD to not want to buy meat from an open tub where the meat has literally been fingered by passers by. Rather it is just awareness that the meat in the tub can easily be contaminated and cooking is not a full proof answer. Because the meat must be handled at home in putting the meat in storage or in cooking preparation. Next humans typically do the hand to mouth movements almost as a reflex. The meats in the open air evening - night Thai markets are handled the same way... I cannot imagine why a major supermarket chain copies this method...

For those of us who find it unappealing - there is little change for change in attitude... So markets like Betagro have a real future... And I have noticed that Thais frequent these shops as much or more than Westerners...

Thanks for your post, i couldn't have explained the real issue better than that.

I agree with chrisinth - scaremongering. Just don't buy if you don't like the practice. You are more likely to get food poisoning from lettuce washed in dirty. Cooking food properly is about as FOOL proof as you can get.

You and JDGRUEN make ideal bedfellows - too much time on your hands and too little to talk about. .... perhaps a discussion on sell by dates next.................

Tell that to the food safety departments in your home country.

Anthony why don't you become a vegetarian!

[bkkjames]

At my local supermarket (if thats we call it but hardly super) I often try to shop early in the morning when they open to avoid crowds and get it out of the way for the day.

I hate going near the meat section at this hour as the smell is terrible. I am sure they don't keep things properly cooled in "off hours". From one of these big open tubs, there is a constant leak of liquid onto the floor. Maybe the workers are used to the smell...so horrible is it, i make a point of driving much much further to foodland just to shop for meat = and the quality is better IMO.

[gerry123]

If you are into eating your meat raw, then that is very sound advice OP.

Otherwise, if you know how to properly cook your food, it is just scaremongery.............................

If what you say is true, then why you never see this kind of sales in Western supermarkets. We all know that the major supermarkets in Thailand are wholly owned by Western supermarket groups.

so incorrect

[Schmackos]

we buy our meat from the stalls in the open air market. it sits there for hours with flies buzzing around. we take it home and cook it.just like its been done for centuries. sounds to me you would be better off staying in your home country. the stress of living here will kill you.

It is the meat that doesn't have the flies near that can be the problem. Sometime the vendor uses flyspray

When it comes to red, brown and white meat, the sniff test is a good indicator.

[AYJAYDEE]

we buy our meat from the stalls in the open air market. it sits there for hours with flies buzzing around. we take it home and cook it.just like its been done for centuries. sounds to me you would be better off staying in your home country. the stress of living here will kill you.

It is the meat that doesn't have the flies near that can be the problem. Sometime the vendor uses flyspray

When it comes to red, brown and white meat, the sniff test is a good indicator.

when it comes to anything to do with food, my wife is the best indicator.

[Jessi]

Just wash the meat in some salt water before using it.

[JDGRUEN]

Google this ..... listeria and meat in open bins.

There was a Listeria outbreak in the U.S. just recently from Caramel Apples ... and it is definitely found on meat that is improperly handled, stored and displayed.

Listeriosis is a serious disease --

[AYJAYDEE]

Google this ..... listeria and meat in open bins.

There was a Listeria outbreak in the U.S. just recently from Caramel Apples ... and it is definitely found on meat that is improperly handled, stored and displayed.

Listeriosis is a serious disease --

so cook the meat

[Jip99]

Google this ..... listeria and meat in open bins.

There was a Listeria outbreak in the U.S. just recently from Caramel Apples ... and it is definitely found on meat that is improperly handled, stored and displayed.

Listeriosis is a serious disease --

so cook the meat

Indeed.... and Thailand a clearly a safer place to eat than the States!

I really do wonder if some Thai Visa members can actually put their own shoes and socks on in the morning....

[Anthony5]

Just wash the meat in some salt water before using it.

Chicken and Other Poultry

Poultry may contain harmful bacteria such as salmonella, listeria, and campylobacter. Washing chicken and other poultry does not remove bacteria.

http://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/types/

[Anthony5]

Google this ..... listeria and meat in open bins.

There was a Listeria outbreak in the U.S. just recently from Caramel Apples ... and it is definitely found on meat that is improperly handled, stored and displayed.

Listeriosis is a serious disease --

so cook the meat

Indeed.... and Thailand a clearly a safer place to eat than the States!

I really do wonder if some Thai Visa members can actually put their own shoes and socks on in the morning....

You should read the topic of the thread and the previous posts a few more times, because you continue making a fool of yourself.

This issue is not only about myself, as I was educated about food safety in my home country and have the proper cooking apparel and hot water in my home.

Now how many of the 66 Million other people in this country have knowledge about what is the proper procedure or have hot water and decent cooking apparel?

You will also know that chicken, which is actually the main product the sell in those tubs, are much more prone to bacteria as all other meats.

[JLCrab]

Depending upon where I shop, I tell people back in the USA: When I buy chicken in the morning, yesterday it was still a chicken.

[AYJAYDEE]

Google this ..... listeria and meat in open bins.

There was a Listeria outbreak in the U.S. just recently from Caramel Apples ... and it is definitely found on meat that is improperly handled, stored and displayed.

Listeriosis is a serious disease --

so cook the meat

Indeed.... and Thailand a clearly a safer place to eat than the States!

I really do wonder if some Thai Visa members can actually put their own shoes and socks on in the morning....

You should read the topic of the thread and the previous posts a few more times, because you continue making a fool of yourself.

This issue is not only about myself, as I was educated about food safety in my home country and have the proper cooking apparel and hot water in my home.

Now how many of the 66 Million other people in this country have knowledge about what is the proper procedure or have hot water and decent cooking apparel?

You will also know that chicken, which is actually the main product the sell in those tubs, are much more prone to bacteria as all other meats.

they know enough to cook it.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Google this ..... listeria and meat in open bins.

There was a Listeria outbreak in the U.S. just recently from Caramel Apples ... and it is definitely found on meat that is improperly handled, stored and displayed.

Listeriosis is a serious disease --

so cook the meat

Indeed.... and Thailand a clearly a safer place to eat than the States! alt=biggrin.png>

I really do wonder if some Thai Visa members can actually put their own shoes and socks on in the morning....

You should read the topic of the thread and the previous posts a few more times, because you continue making a fool of yourself.

This issue is not only about myself, as I was educated about food safety in my home country and have the proper cooking apparel and hot water in my home.

Now how many of the 66 Million other people in this country have knowledge about what is the proper procedure or have hot water and decent cooking apparel?

You will also know that chicken, which is actually the main product the sell in those tubs, are much more prone to bacteria as all other meats.

You would also need to see the figures about how many of the 66 million food safety uneducated population get ill from eating cooked food on a regular basis. Note that I did say cooked and not referring to Laap or other raw meals.

Tony, in your previous posts you keep mentioning western standards. Why? I have to assume that you are living here, and IMHO, to do that successfully you need to get rid of some of the 'fear' regulations that you have been indoctrinated with from your home country to a certain degree to fully (or even partially) have any chance of enjoying the Thailand experience.

As others have mentioned, how do you explain the open markets selling raw meat produce, sitting in the sun for hours on end unrefrigerated, and the lack of multitudes of people suffering from ingesting said product?

Live a little and enjoy, forget your fears for a day or two.....................

[h90]

At my local supermarket (if thats we call it but hardly super) I often try to shop early in the morning when they open to avoid crowds and get it out of the way for the day.

I hate going near the meat section at this hour as the smell is terrible. I am sure they don't keep things properly cooled in "off hours". From one of these big open tubs, there is a constant leak of liquid onto the floor. Maybe the workers are used to the smell...so horrible is it, i make a point of driving much much further to foodland just to shop for meat = and the quality is better IMO.

Often the packed meat in the fridge (not deep frozen) is 3 days old in the morning, in the afternoon they add some new. That is bad enough, but they have a section for expired discounted one and often you can't go close because of the smell, some is visible rotten.

[naboo]

If you're buying in Big C, you have a few choices. Either the meat the OP describes in the big tubs, or the meat in the fridge in polystyrene trays with film wrap, or from under the counter served by the 'butcher'.

The stuff in the fridges is the meat that was in the tubs yesterday, now refrigerated as its getting close to going off. This meat is the meat most likely to cause problems. The stuff from the 'butcher' under the counter is probably cleanest.

If buying at Big C, we buy from the tubs as you can choose a good piece, and we know how to cook safely - as said many times, properly cooked fresh meat won't cause any problem.

Usually we buy at the outdoor markets though, the meat is fresher.

[ubonjoe]

A post containing off topic comments has been removed.

[Anthony5]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You would also need to see the figures about how many of the 66 million food safety uneducated population get ill from eating cooked food on a regular basis. Note that I did say cooked and not referring to Laap or other raw meals.

Tony, in your previous posts you keep mentioning western standards. Why? I have to assume that you are living here, and IMHO, to do that successfully you need to get rid of some of the 'fear' regulations that you have been indoctrinated with from your home country to a certain degree to fully (or even partially) have any chance of enjoying the Thailand experience.

As others have mentioned, how do you explain the open markets selling raw meat produce, sitting in the sun for hours on end unrefrigerated, and the lack of multitudes of people suffering from ingesting said product?

Live a little and enjoy, forget your fears for a day or two.....................

I have of course no figures about how amny people get sick from chicken and how many from laap moo, but isn't it all the same?

Improperly cooked meat equals to raw meat.

Try to ask anyone in Isaan to explain to you the proper preparation and cooking procedure for chicken. You expect to get a correct answer?

Let stand that they have the possibility to do it the proper way.

It is a fact that in Thailand the rates of stomach and colon cancer deaths are high.

[AYJAYDEE]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You would also need to see the figures about how many of the 66 million food safety uneducated population get ill from eating cooked food on a regular basis. Note that I did say cooked and not referring to Laap or other raw meals.

Tony, in your previous posts you keep mentioning western standards. Why? I have to assume that you are living here, and IMHO, to do that successfully you need to get rid of some of the 'fear' regulations that you have been indoctrinated with from your home country to a certain degree to fully (or even partially) have any chance of enjoying the Thailand experience.

As others have mentioned, how do you explain the open markets selling raw meat produce, sitting in the sun for hours on end unrefrigerated, and the lack of multitudes of people suffering from ingesting said product?

Live a little and enjoy, forget your fears for a day or two.....................

I have of course no figures about how amny people get sick from chicken and how many from laap moo, but isn't it all the same?

Improperly cooked meat equals to raw meat.

Try to ask anyone in Isaan to explain to you the proper preparation and cooking procedure for chicken. You expect to get a correct answer?

Let stand that they have the possibility to do it the proper way.

It is a fact that in Thailand the rates of stomach and colon cancer deaths are high.

do you just make things up??

http://jjco.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/4/237.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18444151

[h90]

If you're buying in Big C, you have a few choices. Either the meat the OP describes in the big tubs, or the meat in the fridge in polystyrene trays with film wrap, or from under the counter served by the 'butcher'.

The stuff in the fridges is the meat that was in the tubs yesterday, now refrigerated as its getting close to going off. This meat is the meat most likely to cause problems. The stuff from the 'butcher' under the counter is probably cleanest.

If buying at Big C, we buy from the tubs as you can choose a good piece, and we know how to cook safely - as said many times, properly cooked fresh meat won't cause any problem.

Usually we buy at the outdoor markets though, the meat is fresher.

I saw (not second hand story, I saw it myself) in an outdoor market, flies at the meat and the vendor sprayed them off, sprayed direct on the meat and not just a little bit, full spraying on it from up to down.

Second hand story: a while ago someone posted that he lives near a chicken farm and when they get a disease they sell the dead sick chicken for crocodile farms. But in fact small vendors come to buy them.

So I am even more scared from the products on the market unless I know a vendor.

[AYJAYDEE]

If you're buying in Big C, you have a few choices. Either the meat the OP describes in the big tubs, or the meat in the fridge in polystyrene trays with film wrap, or from under the counter served by the 'butcher'.

The stuff in the fridges is the meat that was in the tubs yesterday, now refrigerated as its getting close to going off. This meat is the meat most likely to cause problems. The stuff from the 'butcher' under the counter is probably cleanest.

If buying at Big C, we buy from the tubs as you can choose a good piece, and we know how to cook safely - as said many times, properly cooked fresh meat won't cause any problem.

Usually we buy at the outdoor markets though, the meat is fresher.

I saw (not second hand story, I saw it myself) in an outdoor market, flies at the meat and the vendor sprayed them off, sprayed direct on the meat and not just a little bit, full spraying on it from up to down.

Second hand story: a while ago someone posted that he lives near a chicken farm and when they get a disease they sell the dead sick chicken for crocodile farms. But in fact small vendors come to buy them.

So I am even more scared from the products on the market unless I know a vendor.

we only buy from friends

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You would also need to see the figures about how many of the 66 million food safety uneducated population get ill from eating cooked food on a regular basis. Note that I did say cooked and not referring to Laap or other raw meals.

Tony, in your previous posts you keep mentioning western standards. Why? I have to assume that you are living here, and IMHO, to do that successfully you need to get rid of some of the 'fear' regulations that you have been indoctrinated with from your home country to a certain degree to fully (or even partially) have any chance of enjoying the Thailand experience.

As others have mentioned, how do you explain the open markets selling raw meat produce, sitting in the sun for hours on end unrefrigerated, and the lack of multitudes of people suffering from ingesting said product?

Live a little and enjoy, forget your fears for a day or two.....................

I have of course no figures about how amny people get sick from chicken and how many from laap moo, but isn't it all the same?

Improperly cooked meat equals to raw meat.

Try to ask anyone in Isaan to explain to you the proper preparation and cooking procedure for chicken. You expect to get a correct answer?

Let stand that they have the possibility to do it the proper way.

It is a fact that in Thailand the rates of stomach and colon cancer deaths are high.

Wow! We have escalated a little bit from bacterial infections to cancer. I actually thought this was a semi-reasonable thread, 'til now.

I would suggest that the rates of stomach/liver/colon cancers in Isaan come from natural water table contamination as opposed to taking meat from food bins in supermarkets or from home cooking.

Of course, I could be wrong, and am willing to see the data on this...............................

Think we will just let the dogs kill things from now on instead of feeding them, as nature intended. NB: Always wanted to see the missus cammed out, she will still want to look after them anyway.........................

[DaffyDuck]

As you probably will have noticed already, the major supermarkets in Thailand have a tending to sell their chicken and other meats in big open tubs stationed in the middle of the walking area.

That way it is all day exposed to sneezes, coughs and more of thousand of people passing and scrambling in those tubs. Some may have diseases that are transmittable or bad hygiene.

I for one will never buy any meat out of such a tub, even if it was for free, and would think that in the Western world this would be strictly forbidden.

What do you think about this practice?

This is a troll post, right?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I would suggest that the rates of stomach/liver/colon cancers in Isaan come from natural water table contamination as opposed to taking meat from food bins in supermarkets or from home cooking.

Of course, I could be wrong, and am willing to see the data on this...............................

You are wrong, it's from parasites.

Liver flukes are the cause from eating raw fish (and raw fish sauce), untreated it leads to cancer.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Udon-Thani-has-highest-rate-of-liver-fluke-cancer--30141691.html

My auntie is currently being treated for it.

It's a massive rural problem.

Edited December 20, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[balo]

You should follow these guidelines when it comes to avoid bacterias and parasites from food.

• Always washing hands after stroking an animal.
• Taking off outdoor shoes by the front door.
• Showering or cleaning regularly.
• Cooking meat thoroughly and ensuring that it is rinsed.
• Ensuring the best possible sources of meat.
• Reduce eating raw beef, pork or fish.
• Wash all fruit, salads and vegetables before use and rinse all meats before preparation.
• Drink water that has been properly filtered.
• Regularly de-worm your pets or animals. Give them their own bedding! Try not to allow pets to sleep on pillows, sheets or towels.
• Eat plenty of friendly probiotics as they help to eliminate unfriendly bacteria in the intestine.
• Wash your hands when you come home from work.
• Carry a hand disinfectant with you to use during the day.
• When disposing of pet waste, make sure you wear gloves and or a mask, do not inhale close to it.
• Minimise mould-build up at home & try to keep your home bug-free!

[AYJAYDEE]

I would suggest that the rates of stomach/liver/colon cancers in Isaan come from natural water table contamination as opposed to taking meat from food bins in supermarkets or from home cooking.

Of course, I could be wrong, and am willing to see the data on this...............................

You are wrong, it's from parasites.

Liver flukes are the cause from eating raw fish (and raw fish sauce), untreated it leads to cancer.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Udon-Thani-has-highest-rate-of-liver-fluke-cancer--30141691.html

My auntie is currently being treated for it.

It's a massive rural problem.

its also from hep A from contaminated food and water as well as misuse of pesticides and herbicides. more than one cause

[AnotherOneAmerican]

its also from hep A from contaminated food and water as well as misuse of pesticides and herbicides. more than one cause

Apparently not,

"hepatitis A is usually not a serious illness for people, except the elderly. Many people won't have any symptoms. The symptoms are flu-like, plus sometimes pain in the liver. For most people who get sick, with rest and a good lifestyle you recover, usually within 6 months. Only a few percentage of people have serious complications from hepatitis A."

http://www.thailandguru.com/hepatitis-a.html

While liver flukes are attributed as causing 33% of all cancer in Thailand.

Edited December 20, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[h90]

If you're buying in Big C, you have a few choices. Either the meat the OP describes in the big tubs, or the meat in the fridge in polystyrene trays with film wrap, or from under the counter served by the 'butcher'.

The stuff in the fridges is the meat that was in the tubs yesterday, now refrigerated as its getting close to going off. This meat is the meat most likely to cause problems. The stuff from the 'butcher' under the counter is probably cleanest.

If buying at Big C, we buy from the tubs as you can choose a good piece, and we know how to cook safely - as said many times, properly cooked fresh meat won't cause any problem.

Usually we buy at the outdoor markets though, the meat is fresher.

I saw (not second hand story, I saw it myself) in an outdoor market, flies at the meat and the vendor sprayed them off, sprayed direct on the meat and not just a little bit, full spraying on it from up to down.

Second hand story: a while ago someone posted that he lives near a chicken farm and when they get a disease they sell the dead sick chicken for crocodile farms. But in fact small vendors come to buy them.

So I am even more scared from the products on the market unless I know a vendor.

we only buy from friends

Yes that is good, specially outside Bangkok in some smaller villages everyone knows everyone and it is known who are the bad ones. In BKK it is more difficult.