Planning a Trip to CM from Korat. Any Suggestions on a Route Changes?

[RubberSideDown]

Apparently (according to Ducati) the stock spring for the Asian market is set for a rider that's a max of 80kg geared up, so you definitely max it out.

so the spring is set for an 80 kg rider but can be adjusted for a heavier rider,not a case of the Asian market getting a completely different spring from the rest of the world,

I'm not sure- I don't own the bike and got my info from someone who went through Ducati- it might be sprung on the soft side regardless of where it's sold.

A rear suspension has a limited range of adjustability- a rule-of-thumb is that the spring will compress about one inch (25mm) per 100lbs (45kg) of rider weight, and there's a point where it will be maxed out as obviously it's not infinite in travel length- what I was told (and which is borne out by two riders of Diavels in LOS) is that the stock spring isn't set up to be properly adjusted for a rider who weighs over 80kg geared-up, as a rider above this weight compresses the spring to the point where travel is limited and the bike rides hard and bottoms out on rough road.

Sure, it would be great if everyone could be accommodated by a single suspension component regardless of their weight, but it would be impossible due to the limited space and the fact that riders will vary in weight from ~50kg to way over 100kg- in order to put a custom spring on prior to delivery, either the bike would have to be set up with it on the assembly line (not impossible, but I don't know of any manufacturer that offers this option as far as mass-produced bikes go)- that leaves a buyer who's out of the weight-range of the stock suspension to have it set p for himself, which can be done for less that 15K and is the only current option.

A suspension set up specifically for heavier riders can also leave out lighter riders in the sense that they don't have the weight to compress it properly to give the suspension the correct amount of sag- I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some manufacturers use different springs for different regions.

Edited February 1, 2015 by RubberSideDown

[Garry]

I know my 999S was bottoming out under heavy braking in the front & with the back under rough, undulating roads. New front and rear springs from the US sorted that out. It was a whole new motorcycle after that, as my kidneys weren't trying to remove themselves anymore

Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk

Edited February 2, 2015 by Garry

[RubberSideDown]

^

I believe that was a common complaint.

Thais on average weigh 59kg (this includes both men and women- while the average for only men would be higher, my guess is that the disparity when compared to men of western countries would be greater)- Americans weigh 82kg- that's a pretty big variation, and it would be impossible to set up a single suspension component that would be suitable for the majority of both rider populations, especially with a bike that has a low seat height (which further limits the amount of adjustability and travel).

Edited February 2, 2015 by RubberSideDown

[Garry]

^

I believe that was a common complaint.

Thais on average weigh 59kg (this includes both men and women- while the average for only men would be higher, my guess is that the disparity when compared to men of western countries would be greater)- Americans weigh 82kg- that's a pretty big variation, and it would be impossible to set up a single suspension component that would be suitable for the majority of both rider populations, especially with a bike that has a low seat height (which further limits the amount of adjustability and travel).

I wasn't complaining when I bought the bike, but considering it was an import, I was expecting (read: hoping) that the previous owner had upgraded it. I'm around 94kgs wihout gear, so ultimately change was inevitable. My pride and joy is a work in progress

[ll2]

Honda or kawasaki can find a way to accommodate the riders with varying weights on their 200 k - 300 k bikes.

check cb500x, cbr500r for example or cbr650f or er6n/f/versys. no problems about the weight for these bikes.

a 120 kg farang or a 40 kg Thai girl can go buy these bikes now and ride happily without such problems.

so i am sure ducati can find a way to do this on their 900 k bikes.

[RubberSideDown]

Yes- their 'solution' was to use cheaper, softer suspension (though it's still decent quality like Showa, but it's not their top stuff) that's geared more toward comfort and which can accommodate a broader range of riders, but doesn't offer the high performance levels that Ducati is trying to offer (higher-end suspension has a narrower range of adjustment). All the bikes you mentioned let the rider down at speed compared to something like a super-sport 600cc or literbike, and all will exhibit the same issues that the Diavel has with a heavier rider.

I.e., this is what RideApart said about the 500:

Whats Bad:

The suspension is under damped for truly fast riding. Having said that, this is not intended to be a smaller CBR600RR-style race replica thats only good for canyon carving. Its an everyday fun, pretty quick bike that the vast majority of riders will actually be able to ride quickly thanks to its accessible nature.

Ground clearance is also somewhat lacking if youre really pressing on. The payoff is the kind of comfort more focused bikes can only dream of.

They also talk about the shortcomings of the 650 suspension in their review of it, and nearly every review of the ER6N mentions the relatively weak suspension. These are very good bikes for their intended purpose and price-point, but they don't come close to suiting riders from 40kg-120kg when the speed increases- no bikes do as there just isn't enough adjustment available. To properly accommodate heavier riders, Ducati Thailand would have to use components that wouldn't work optimally for the majority of the (lighter) people buying their bikes.

Edited February 2, 2015 by RubberSideDown

[seedy]

Every bike I have ever owned I needed to set suspension for myself.

The factory adjustment was either lacking or the range offered was not broad enough to satisfy.

Like clothes - you can wear an off-the-shelf suit, and it looks it and wears like it.

Or get one custom made, and it looks and feels like it was made for you - which it was.

Same for bikes.

[Shurup]

Owners manual is misleading (or simply lying). It provides a table of recommended suspension settings based on 80-90 kg geared up rider, where I fall into this range. The standard setup that I rode on from the dealer was so bad I was hurting. When I got home after that 1st ride, I was wondering how I got those scratches on the rear tire cover. Now I know, the suspension bottomed out to the point there the underneath of the sit was hitting on the guard. There's also a tire rub mark on the same guard, on the bottom of it.

While on a trip with pillion and full panniers, I felt a number of times where it bottomed out and the spring was at the stiffest setting possible. Still it "should" have been able to handle the total weight of 2 of us and our luggage as my wife weights only 50, according to the same page of owners manual.

[Shurup]

On another note, it took about 10 min to remove the panniers f r a me with all the junk on it and install the original signal lights and grab handle back on the bike. It will be a piece of cake to swap between the touring and normal setup. Took a while the 1st time as I had to put all the bits together.

[ll2]

^^^^

still, i feel it is not fair RSD.

Edited February 2, 2015 by ll2

[seedy]

Owners manual is misleading (or simply lying). It provides a table of recommended suspension settings based on 80-90 kg geared up rider, where I fall into this range.

Weird. Manual says compression 25 click standard, and 20 click with passenger.

[RubberSideDown]

A lot also depends on your riding style- speed obviously has much to do with it, but the bottom line is that the bike is somewhat under-sprung for bigger guys- I'd order the beefier spring if I had a Diavel, and as I mentioned my friend said it feels like a completely different bike after the swap and he's very happy he did it.

My bike is an import made for the American market (meaning more 'full-figured' riders;))- the suspension suits my ~92kg-with-gear frame, though I've read on the various boards that guys over 100kg are at the point of being let down a bit by it, and over 110kg necessitates a change if it's going to be ridden hard through the twisties. I also know a guy who has a 14R that weighs 65kg with gear (maybe), and he complains that it's not very compliant for him as he cant compress it enough (though he's been saying that about various bikes for the 15 years I've known him:)).

Edited February 2, 2015 by RubberSideDown

[RubberSideDown]

^^^^

still, i feel it is not fair RSD.

I see your point- for that kind of money, a rider should be able to get a bike suited for him, but I can also see how it's not feasible for the manufacturer to set up a bike differently on the production line- at least there's a fix that's not crazy expensive.

[Shurup]

Owners manual is misleading (or simply lying). It provides a table of recommended suspension settings based on 80-90 kg geared up rider, where I fall into this range.

Weird. Manual says compression 25 click standard, and 20 click with passenger.

Seedy, clicks are counted from fully closed (stiffest) position so less clicks for a rider with passenger makes sense.

[seedy]

Seedy, clicks are counted from fully closed (stiffest) position so less clicks for a rider with passenger makes sense.

OK - did not know that.

Thanks.

[Shurup]

A spring will be one of the few mods I'm planning for the bike. There's really good positive feedback on open flash programmer that corrects the fueling on Diavel, making it a lot smoother especially at the lower RPM range. On top of it it also has some other nice features.

Other than these 2 I'm not planning any other mods, definitely not going to start switching parts as I like the stick look.

[Gweiloman]

All these talks of springs and suspension is really interesting for me. I have both a Versys and Ninja 100 on stock settings and both bought in Thailand. However, I'm 90-92 kgs and often ride two up with panniers. I've never bothered to adjust my settings much, I just accept the suspension of the bike as it is (and it's not uncomfortable, for me at least).

How would I know if my settings are incorrect? As a relatively new rider, I don't have much comparison - I merely assume that the feel I get on the bike is the way it should be. Anyone who has a Versys / Ninja 1000 properly set up for my weight willing to let me have a go on their bike?

[taninthai]

^

I'm pretty much the same mate (not as in 92kg),never adjusted the suspension on any of my bikes ,do play around with tyre pressure a bit though,and last year after 12 years decided to change fork springs and oil in my hornet...lol

[seedy]

How would I know if my settings are incorrect?

Understand that the spring carries all the loads, the shock / fork damping controls the spring.

First set sag - the amount the suspension compresses when you sit on the bike. Aprox 1 inch. Check solo and geared up for travel - two up if you carry a passenger. Then you will know how much more to set spring preload in both situations.

If you find the shock / fork bottoms out frequently - increase compression damping. Ideally it should bottom only very occasionally, and softly, this way you are using the full amount of travel in 99% of your riding, which will give you the most control and feel the most comfortable.

If you find that - after hitting a bump - the bike returns to its normal setting to quickly - like riding a pogo stick - increase rebound damping. This will allow the shock / fork to return at a slower rate.

All this assumes that you have adjustable damping on the shock and / or fork.

If not, all the major players in the game have websites where you can go, input your bike, your weight, solo or 2-up, type of riding, and get their recommendations on new springs, or a different set of shocks.

The way you ride, and your preferences, also play a major roll. Experiment until you find what suits. Change one thing at a time, record the changes so you can return if you do not like the change last made.

[RubberSideDown]

It's very difficult to do by yourself. You need to get the unladen numbers first before setting anything (which means wheels off the ground so the suspension is completely unloaded), and you'll need an assistant (one that's strong enough to hold the bike up while you sit on it) so the measurement can be taken of the amount of laden sag (and you'll need someone else to take the readings).

This article gives the basics of setting your bike up within the proper parameters.

Oops- edited- forget to link the article: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/suspension-setup-101-part-i-setting-sag

Edited February 3, 2015 by RubberSideDown

[seedy]

It's very difficult to do by yourself.

I use a tie strap. Wrap around fork leg / shock rod. Get on bike - wrap moves down.

Get off bike - measure movement.

[RubberSideDown]

^

How do you sit on the bike with it upright, off the stand, motionless, and with both feet on the pegs and do that? You need a couple seconds for the bike to balance while you sit on it- pulling your feet off the ground momentarily won't give you an accurate measurement as it needs to properly settle into position. To do it right you need assistance.

You might be able to get somewhat close, but when millimeters count, accuracy is important.

Edited February 3, 2015 by RubberSideDown

[ll2]

All these talks of springs and suspension is really interesting for me. I have both a Versys and Ninja 100 on stock settings and both bought in Thailand. However, I'm 90-92 kgs and often ride two up with panniers. I've never bothered to adjust my settings much, I just accept the suspension of the bike as it is (and it's not uncomfortable, for me at least).

How would I know if my settings are incorrect? As a relatively new rider, I don't have much comparison - I merely assume that the feel I get on the bike is the way it should be. Anyone who has a Versys / Ninja 1000 properly set up for my weight willing to let me have a go on their bike?

first comes measuring your sag.

it is easy to do and really change things in a good way.

for the rest, you can maybe ask help from kawa guys or a lot of info on the net.

by the way, used, cbr250r, cbr500r and now cbr650f and rode nearly all made in Thailand big bikes and dont remember bottoming the suspensions on these, not even once.

Of course, cheap suspensions on those budget bikes will never give dynamism of ducati suspensions but bottoming suspension on a 900k thb bike just sounds cheaper than honda's conventional cheap units.

i mostly do a couple of adjustments, and anyway, not many adjustments on these bikes:) just pump up the preload to mid setting for some more ground clearance and better handling for rear and i put some spacers or adjusters - mostly 2 - 3 cm - to the front but again, they never bottomed out.

I believe Honda is the master of cheap conventional suspension tuning. somehow they always provide optimum handling, dynamism, comfort and perfect compromise. It is good for a track day and a comfy for a 500 km tour without any adjustments.

Edited February 3, 2015 by ll2

[seedy]

How do you sit on the bike with it upright, off the stand, motionless, and with both feet on the pegs and do that?

Stick my arm out and hold against the wall.

If the ounces - if that - not resting on the bike suspension makes any difference, in a rider weight w/gear of close to 100kg, I would be surprised.

[RubberSideDown]

This is a good video (part of a series on setting up motorcycle suspension) for finding the correct sag measurements:

[RubberSideDown]

How do you sit on the bike with it upright, off the stand, motionless, and with both feet on the pegs and do that?

Stick my arm out and hold against the wall.

If the ounces - if that - not resting on the bike suspension makes any difference, in a rider weight w/gear of close to 100kg, I would be surprised.

Then you're not in your proper riding position and front/rear bias is affected- this is critical on a sportbike, though not as much on a cruiser. If 'close enough' if what you want, fine, but why not get it as close to perfect as possible?

[seedy]

I have said what I want.

Offered my assistance to a poster requesting it.

If the ounces matter to you, do it your way.

[draftvader]

Off-topic debate removed.

I just hope you guys stay on the road better than you stay on the topic. Start again from the last "safe" point and carry on. Remember, you don't get a 2nd chance on the road.

Be civil, debate on and try to steer it back to the white lines.

Thank you

[Shurup]

I talked to a friend who owns a Diavel today- he swapped out the stock rear spring for a heavier one (he's a big guy) yesterday, and he said it transformed the ride for him. He couldn't remember the rating, but he said its the next heavier one (there's one more that's probably geared for riders who usually go two-up).

It was less than 10K through Ducati Thailnd, plus another 3K (which sounded cheap) to the shop that swapped it out (not through Ducati, but done by a local wrench who specializes in them)- it's probably your cheapest option for setting up the bike for your weight.

Checking the Ducati configurator site and there are 2 springs available. One is 90 N/mm and one is 105. I don't know if the 90 is the stock spring or the next step up, but quick googling says the 90 is good for up to 120 kg total and 105 is good for up to 150 kg so 105 N/mm spring it is. Same price for either one - just over 8K THB if I bring it from Canada on my next trip. Just need to find a shop to do the job.

[RubberSideDown]

It's also possible for the bike to be over-sprung if you go for a spring that's too heavy (meaning your body-weight wouldn't be able to compress it enough to be in the optimal range). If you ride primarily two-up, the heavier spring would likely be the best choice, but if not, the lighter one would be the one to go for. The guy I mentioned specifically noted the heavier spring as being too much as he rides mostly solo- he weighs ~105kg.

Research it a bit more before making your final choice- the Ducati web boards must have some info- I would toss up a thread over there if I were you.