Help with garden lights - 12V preferred

[craigt3365]

My regular electrician wasn't available when we did the garden lights. So...got another one and he did a horrible job. It's an absolute mess.

I've got 2 types of garden lights. The 1M tall decorative concrete structures with the light inside (220v) and the small enclosed metal ones that have a stake you just push into the ground. Some of the latter are 12V and some are 220V as I got tired of replacing the small converters. These use those small halogen bulbs with 2 prongs to plug in the connector.

I've been looking for a large 220-12v convertor that could handle some 10 lights or so. Back in the US, we'd use Malibu lights, or something like that. But I've never seen anything like that here. Has anybody ever seen something like this? I was at a friends house and his entire house is 12V. He's got a massive converter box that he brought in from the UK. Very nice.

As a side note, the first time we had rain the circuit breaker blew. Went out to see what was going on and found out the "electrician" had spliced wires together, used only electric tape, and left them in the ground. Ugh....

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this!

[Crossy]

Consider changing to 12V LED lamps, you'll need a much smaller power supply and should be able to use the existing wiring without excessive volt-drop.

Plenty of 12V power supplies available from the electronic retailers such as NPE.

[Daffy D]

Saw some solar LED garden lights in I think Hompro.

Just about 12in tall with a spike that you just shove in the ground.

No idea how effective the solar charge is and how many hours they burn, but they looked quite smart.

[bankruatsteve]

Saw some solar LED garden lights in I think Hompro.

Just about 12in tall with a spike that you just shove in the ground.

No idea how effective the solar charge is and how many hours they burn, but they looked quite smart.

They are crap.

[DLock]

Saw some solar LED garden lights in I think Hompro.

Just about 12in tall with a spike that you just shove in the ground.

No idea how effective the solar charge is and how many hours they burn, but they looked quite smart.

They are crap.

Yes, major crap.

They will last a few months, then fail.

I have tried several brands, from cheap to moderate - better ones last longer, but not a permanent solution.

[craigt3365]

Consider changing to 12V LED lamps, you'll need a much smaller power supply and should be able to use the existing wiring without excessive volt-drop.

Plenty of 12V power supplies available from the electronic retailers such as NPE.

I've started switching over to the LEDs, but not having much luck with them. They don't seem to last very long in this rugged environment! And they ain't cheap!

Have you seen a 220 to 12v converter that can handle a series of lights? I can only find that small converter (a big bigger than a large pack of gum). They are OK, but don't seem to last a long time either. I've got them in water proof boxes in the garden, but I think the high humidity does them in!

My "good" electrician is here in the next few days. It will be interesting to see what he can work out also. He mainly does commercial buildings and entire apartment complexes.

Thanks!!!!

[IMHO]

Saw some solar LED garden lights in I think Hompro.

Just about 12in tall with a spike that you just shove in the ground.

No idea how effective the solar charge is and how many hours they burn, but they looked quite smart.

They are crap.

Yes, major crap.

They will last a few months, then fail.

I have tried several brands, from cheap to moderate - better ones last longer, but not a permanent solution.

Even if the battery in them lasts longer than that, the main problem is they simply lack the lumens you actually want in a garden light. Most of these struggle to make 100 lumens, and the brighter they are, the less runtime they have.

[Crossy]

I have a 12V power supply capable of 20 Amps (240 Watts of lights) which is a lot of LEDs, <1500 Baht at NPE.

Keep it indoors out of the garden and it should last a long time.

12V MR11 LED lamps start at a couple of bucks a piece, like these http://www.satisled.com/3528-smd-g635-led-light-12vdc-input-15led-1w_p1561.html

[IMHO]

Consider changing to 12V LED lamps, you'll need a much smaller power supply and should be able to use the existing wiring without excessive volt-drop.

Plenty of 12V power supplies available from the electronic retailers such as NPE.

I've started switching over to the LEDs, but not having much luck with them. They don't seem to last very long in this rugged environment! And they ain't cheap!

Have you seen a 220 to 12v converter that can handle a series of lights? I can only find that small converter (a big bigger than a large pack of gum). They are OK, but don't seem to last a long time either. I've got them in water proof boxes in the garden, but I think the high humidity does them in!

My "good" electrician is here in the next few days. It will be interesting to see what he can work out also. He mainly does commercial buildings and entire apartment complexes.

Thanks!!!!

If you're only talking about 10 lights, and those were say, 7w LED's (about the same as a 35w halogen), that's a total of just 70 watts = less than 6 amps @ 12VDC.

This should be a very easy power supply to find - I have a few 72w (12VDC/6A) laptop style 'brick' power supplies (running LED strip lights) I bought from China for less than USD $10 inc shipping, and they have worked great for over 2 years now.

[craigt3365]

I have a 12V power supply capable of 20 Amps (240 Watts of lights) which is a lot of LEDs, <1500 Baht at NPE.

Keep it indoors out of the garden and it should last a long time.

12V MR11 LED lamps start at a couple of bucks a piece, like these http://www.satisled.com/3528-smd-g635-led-light-12vdc-input-15led-1w_p1561.html

Where is NPE???

[Crossy]

I have a 12V power supply capable of 20 Amps (240 Watts of lights) which is a lot of LEDs, <1500 Baht at NPE.

Keep it indoors out of the garden and it should last a long time.

12V MR11 LED lamps start at a couple of bucks a piece, like these http://www.satisled.com/3528-smd-g635-led-light-12vdc-input-15led-1w_p1561.html

Where is NPE???

There's a big one in the Old Siam Mall (Ban Mo, BKK), smaller one in Zeer Rangsit.

[craigt3365]

Hmmm....I'll stop by a small store we have here in Pattaya and see what's up. I'm in Bangkok for a few days, I'll see if I can make it to China Town. Bit of a hike for me from Thong Lor.

[Naam]

Saw some solar LED garden lights in I think Hompro.

Just about 12in tall with a spike that you just shove in the ground.

No idea how effective the solar charge is and how many hours they burn, but they looked quite smart.

They are crap.

and those which are not plain crap are either crap² or even crap³

[Daffy D]

Saw some solar LED garden lights in I think Hompro.

Just about 12in tall with a spike that you just shove in the ground.

No idea how effective the solar charge is and how many hours they burn, but they looked quite smart.

They are crap.

and those which are not plain crap are either crap² or even crap³

Short and to the point - Naam - no need to complicate the issue

[craigt3365]

The electrician came over today. He knows of a converter that can handle 15 or so garden lights. He'll be back mid January to rewire everything and install 2 of them in nice waterproof boxes. I'm still trying to figure out how to protect the new LED lights that will be inside the concrete garden lights. He has some ideas. I hope they work out!

I'll try to keep you posted as this progresses....thanks for all the help!

[craigt3365]

Well...so far, not very happy. The Chinese concrete lanterns are no where near as bright as what I had before. The spots seem to be OK, but the LED's in the lanterns are very dull. I'll show him that light you proposed, Crossy. I think it will be much better. The LED's are shining down, versus the ones you showed which seem to be shining outwards. Hopefully, they'll be brighter.

Not a cheap project so far! I think the pay back will be several years.

[IMHO]

Well...so far, not very happy. The Chinese concrete lanterns are no where near as bright as what I had before. The spots seem to be OK, but the LED's in the lanterns are very dull. I'll show him that light you proposed, Crossy. I think it will be much better. The LED's are shining down, versus the ones you showed which seem to be shining outwards. Hopefully, they'll be brighter.

Not a cheap project so far! I think the pay back will be several years.

Assume the new lights are LED? What was the type & wattage of the previous lights, and what wattage are the new LED's?

[craigt3365]

The guy just got here and said he knew they wouldn't be very bright, but he only had some cheap LEDs available and brought some better ones with him that he says will be as bright was my old 220v 40w bulbs.

I'll report more later! But one seems to be a 3 LED bulb setup, 6w. Works great in our spot light...hope it works OK in the chinese lanterns as these are walkway lights and used to light up the pavement.

[IMHO]

The guy just got here and said he knew they wouldn't be very bright, but he only had some cheap LEDs available and brought some better ones with him that he says will be as bright was my old 220v 40w bulbs.

I'll report more later! But one seems to be a 3 LED bulb setup, 6w. Works great in our spot light...hope it works OK in the chinese lanterns as these are walkway lights and used to light up the pavement.

If they were 40w incandescent you might be OK @ 6W, but if the old lamps are halogen or CFL, 6 watts of LED probably still won't cut it.

If you're still not happy with these, would it be possible to post a photo of the light fitting? There are several different formats for LED bulbs (anywhere from 30 degree fields to 360 degrees) so choosing an appropriate type is paramount. It's hard to give any bulb recommendations without knowing that.

Edited January 8, 2015 by IMHO

[craigt3365]

Here's a pic of the Chinese (Japanese?) garden lights, with a pic of the inside as to how he's got them setup. Hopefully, affixed to the top, they won't get wet like before...I was constantly replacing the connectors and even the bulbs. The little prongs just break off after a few months. On a few, he even put a plastic cup around them to help.

I mentioned 6w not being enough and he agreed. He's got 9w now. He asked us to see them tonight and if they still aren't right, he'll get even stronger ones! Again, my concern is how will these will focus the light down and on the sidewalk.

Thanks!!

[IMHO]

Here's a pic of the Chinese (Japanese?) garden lights, with a pic of the inside as to how he's got them setup. Hopefully, affixed to the top, they won't get wet like before...I was constantly replacing the connectors and even the bulbs. The little prongs just break off after a few months. On a few, he even put a plastic cup around them to help.

I mentioned 6w not being enough and he agreed. He's got 9w now. He asked us to see them tonight and if they still aren't right, he'll get even stronger ones! Again, my concern is how will these will focus the light down and on the sidewalk.

Thanks!!

OK, the lamp shown in the 2nd photo is a spot light, and these typically only have a light field extending somewhere between 30° and 60° - which means it's going to fire all of it's light into the bottom of the enclosure, and only the reflected light will make it back out. Considering that even decent quality mirrors waste ~20% of light when reflecting, you could safely assume your losses will be well North of 50%.

Two suggestions:

1. Try lining the floor and lid of the enclosure with aluminum foil to increase reflectivity.

2. (Recommended) Try to find a "corn" style LED bulb, which emits around 90% of it's light sideways, leaving only ~10% wasted/reflected in this type of fitting, as per the photo below (ignore the E27 screw fitting - you can find them with any type of base you want - for reference, yours appear to be GU10 or MR16 bases)

Edited January 8, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

One more thing, the LED in your photo is cool white - which is a different color altogether from incandescent and halogen. If you're not happy with the change of light color, you will likely want to look for warm white bulbs next (3000-4000 Kelvin)

[craigt3365]

Thanks! I printed out a pic of that circular LED and will see if our electrician can find something like it. It's exactly what we need, as you say.

Just got home and it's much better than last night, but still not 100% perfect. No big deal, just get a brighter LED and we should be OK. At least he did the hard part of wiring everything up! Changing bulbs is easy...

I'll keep you posted!

[IMHO]

Thanks! I printed out a pic of that circular LED and will see if our electrician can find something like it. It's exactly what we need, as you say.

Just got home and it's much better than last night, but still not 100% perfect. No big deal, just get a brighter LED and we should be OK. At least he did the hard part of wiring everything up! Changing bulbs is easy...

I'll keep you posted!

Ask for "Corn LED's" and anyone that understands LED's should understand what you want.

Don't ask for "Cob LED's" though - that's something different in the LED world (Chip On Board)

[craigt3365]

The electrician just came back and has one of those "corn" style LEDs. 2W and it's quite bright. Hard to tell right now, so can't wait till night. He also said there are several different types. One that's kinda yellow and another that's more white. The one he just put in was180 Baht and is a bit yellow. He said there is another one that is brighter, but is 220 Baht, and is very white. He wants me to see how I like this one before doing anything.

So...having fun! You guys have been great. I'll report more later!

As an FYI...we outfitted our house 5 years ago. LEDs weren't really readily available here in Pattaya then. I've got a fair number of halogen style spot lights. I asked about changing them as they seem to consume a lot of energy and are VERY hot. He just pulled one out and the wires were melted!!!! So...changing all to LEDs now....

[IMHO]

The electrician just came back and has one of those "corn" style LEDs. 2W and it's quite bright. Hard to tell right now, so can't wait till night. He also said there are several different types. One that's kinda yellow and another that's more white. The one he just put in was180 Baht and is a bit yellow. He said there is another one that is brighter, but is 220 Baht, and is very white. He wants me to see how I like this one before doing anything.

So...having fun! You guys have been great. I'll report more later!

As an FYI...we outfitted our house 5 years ago. LEDs weren't really readily available here in Pattaya then. I've got a fair number of halogen style spot lights. I asked about changing them as they seem to consume a lot of energy and are VERY hot. He just pulled one out and the wires were melted!!!! So...changing all to LEDs now....

It's unlikely the 2W bulbs will achieve the kind of light output you want, if you're coming from halogen - but as you say, see how they go. The corn style will waste much less light in your fittings, so you'll gain there.

If you get stuck, let me know and I'll give you a recommendation on some Chinese ones I've had success with.