Why is Thailand such a success compared to the Philippines?

[thailiketoo]

The secret weapon is the extremely high birth rate. I was in a McDonalds this morning (the one that's just 5 minutes from the Deutsche Bank call center) and it looked like the average age was about 12. If not for the BPO industry there would be very little work for the educated Filipinos. As it is they spend 4 years at school and end up answering phones.

As for the school system in PI. I know it's not that great in Thailand but what I witnessed first hand for 4 years while a friend attended one of the top 5 Universities in Manila was beyond belief.

What could you witness from a friend attending school?

1 out of 10 physicians practicing in the USA are graduates of

Philippines Medical Universities http://studymdinphilippines.com/

Edited January 5, 2015 by bonobo

[tropo]

The secret weapon is the extremely high birth rate. I was in a McDonalds this morning (the one that's just 5 minutes from the Deutsche Bank call center) and it looked like the average age was about 12. If not for the BPO industry there would be very little work for the educated Filipinos. As it is they spend 4 years at school and end up answering phones.

As for the school system in PI. I know it's not that great in Thailand but what I witnessed first hand for 4 years while a friend attended one of the top 5 Universities in Manila was beyond belief.

What could you witness from a friend attending school?

1 out of 10 physicians practicing in the USA are graduates of

Philippines Medical Universities http://studymdinphilippines.com/

Yeah, witnessing a friend first hand at university wouldn't tell you much at all.

Looking at this year's QS World University Rankings, the top Thai University made position #243 and the top Philippines University made #367.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2014#sorting=rank+region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=

In their defense, tons of State Universities in the USA were ranked far lower.

[govoner]

Corruption is the biggie, looks like the Phils could be on the way to being dumped from the UN

[tropo]

Corruption is the biggie, looks like the Phils could be on the way to being dumped from the UN

You really should check your sources before posting fake reports.

That ridiculous voice over report was made up to push the agenda of a political website. It's all nonsense, which should be obvious by how it was written.

There's no doubt the Philippines is very corrupt and I'm not disputing that, but it's not #5 in the world by a long shot. There's probably at least 50 countries more corrupt depending on what rating agency you use.

[Restinpeace]

I really cringe when I read some of the stuff in this thread such as referring to Filipinos as:

The trailer trash of Asia

Lazy corrupt thieves

Aboriginals

Flips

etc..

Trust me this reputation is wholely undeserved for most Filipinos. The Philippines is a crushing and soul destroying hard place for your average lower income Filipino.

The wealthy families in the Philippines have zero interest in helping out their fellow Filipino. At least wealthy Thais will occasionally throw a bone to the poorer Thais and invest in infrastructure. Wealthy Filipino elite would sooner piss on a burning poor Filipino then hand him a peso. I am not exaggerating there is nothing but scorn and disdain from those on top. The power is checked through violence and extreme corruption.

What can the people do? The country is fragmented into island states that are all controlled by powerful families with their own private armies. The people are powerless. The main island of Luzon may improve slowly but the country as a whole is an extreme basket case.

[tropo]

I really cringe when I read some of the stuff in this thread such as referring to Filipinos as:

The trailer trash of Asia

Lazy corrupt thieves

Aboriginals

Flips

etc..

Trust me this reputation is wholely undeserved for most Filipinos. The Philippines is a crushing and soul destroying hard place for your average lower income Filipino.

The wealthy families in the Philippines have zero interest in helping out their fellow Filipino. At least wealthy Thais will occasionally throw a bone to the poorer Thais and invest in infrastructure. Wealthy Filipino elite would sooner piss on a burning poor Filipino then hand him a peso. I am not exaggerating there is nothing but scorn and disdain from those on top. The power is checked through violence and extreme corruption.

What can the people do? The country is fragmented into island states that are all controlled by powerful families with their own private armies. The people are powerless. The main island of Luzon may improve slowly but the country as a whole is an extreme basket case.

I agree with you regarding how the rich Filipinos (elite, old money class) treat the rest of the people (including middle class and upper middle class - not just the poor).

Here's a good example. Manny Pacquiao, a dirt poor Filipino who became famous, was refused membership at an elite golf course in Manila.

http://www.examiner.com/article/manila-fat-cats-reject-manny-pacquiao-his-pinoy-blood-not-rich-enough-for-them

He has decided to sell his Forbes Park mansion because the neighbours have been complaining too much about all the badly dressed visitors he gets.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/nov/28/boxer-manny-pacquiao-sell-manila-mansion-philippines

Manny Pacquiao is a governor and will probably run for president after he reaches the required 40 years old minimum age. Perhaps he'll get the last laugh.

I really have no idea how the Philippine elite compare to Thailand's elite. I'd like to hear more about the reasons why you think the Thai elite are better.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory baiting post has been removed.

[Lammbock]

Maybe the Filipinos waiting for the return of the Americans to run the country again.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Lammbock

[Serendipity24]

Maybe the Filipinos waiting for the return of the Americans to run the country again.

Who told you it ever stopped?

[tropo]

Maybe the Filipinos waiting for the return of the Americans to run the country again.

Your silly reply does bring up a good point. Perhaps the Americans ruined the country after slaughtering an estimated 220,000 Filipinos during the 3 1/2 year Philippine-American War and then governing the country in a half-hearted fashion until they granted independence in 1946. In 1899 President McKinley didn't want the Philippines.

Here's how it started:

http://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Philippine-American_War

"American Justification

President McKinley told Congress that his inspiration for invading the Philippines came in a dream from God. "Hold a moment longer! Not quite yet, gentlemen! Before you go I would like to say just a word about the Philippine business. I have been criticized a good deal about the Philippines, but dont deserve it. The truth is I didnt want the Philippines, and when they came to us, as a gift from the gods, I did not know what to do with them. When the Spanish War broke out Dewey was at Hongkong, and I ordered him to go to Manila and to capture or destroy the Spanish fleet, and he had to; because, if defeated, he had no place to refit on that side of the globe, and if the Dons were victorious they would likely cross the Pacific and ravage our Oregon and California coasts. And so he had to destroy the Spanish fleet, and did it! But that was as far as I thought then.

When I next realized that the Philippines had dropped into our laps I confess I did not know what to do with them. I sought counsel from all sidesDemocrats as well as Republicansbut got little help. I thought first we would take only Manila; then Luzon; then other islands perhaps also. I walked the floor of the White House night after night until midnight; and I am not ashamed to tell you, gentlemen, that I went down on my knees and prayed Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me this wayI dont know how it was, but it came:

(1) That we could not give them back to Spainthat would be cowardly and dishonorable;

(2) that we could not turn them over to France and Germanyour commercial rivals in the Orientthat would be bad business and discreditable;

(3) that we could not leave them to themselvesthey were unfit for self-governmentand they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spains was; and

(4) that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by Gods grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died. [1]

And then I went to bed, and went to sleep, and slept soundly, and the next morning I sent for the chief engineer of the War Department (our map-maker), and I told him to put the Philippines on the map of the United States (pointing to a large map on the wall of his office), and there they are, and there they will stay while I am President!--President William McKinley.[2]"

[thaibeachlovers]

Overpopulation, pure and simple.

I've known many Phillipinas, and their main aim in life is to breed.

[tropo]

Overpopulation, pure and simple.

I've known many Phillipinas, and their main aim in life is to breed.

Let's be fair about this. There are very good reasons for FILIPINAS to reproduce. "Breed" is a derogatory term which shouldn't be used in reference to humans.

What you seem to consider a bad trait may very well save them from extinction in about half a century as most Western countries have birth rates way below what is required for maintenance of population.

[bonobo]

I was at an investors' conference put on by UBS earlier this week (as a guest), and they through up a lot of stats on screen. What was somewhat surprising to me was that among ASEAN, Taiwan, Mongolia, and a few others thrown in, the Philippines was right behind Taiwan on most economic indicators for 2014 while Thailand was generally either last or second to last (ahead of Mongolia) on the same indicators for the year.

Just throwing that out there.

[2fishin2]

Maybe the Filipinos waiting for the return of the Americans to run the country again.

Your silly reply does bring up a good point. Perhaps the Americans ruined the country after slaughtering an estimated 220,000 Filipinos during the 3 1/2 year Philippine-American War and then governing the country in a half-hearted fashion until they granted independence in 1946. In 1899 President McKinley didn't want the Philippines.

Here's how it started:

http://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Philippine-American_War

"American Justification

President McKinley told Congress that his inspiration for invading the Philippines came in a dream from God. "Hold a moment longer! Not quite yet, gentlemen! Before you go I would like to say just a word about the Philippine business. I have been criticized a good deal about the Philippines, but dont deserve it. The truth is I didnt want the Philippines, and when they came to us, as a gift from the gods, I did not know what to do with them. When the Spanish War broke out Dewey was at Hongkong, and I ordered him to go to Manila and to capture or destroy the Spanish fleet, and he had to; because, if defeated, he had no place to refit on that side of the globe, and if the Dons were victorious they would likely cross the Pacific and ravage our Oregon and California coasts. And so he had to destroy the Spanish fleet, and did it! But that was as far as I thought then.

When I next realized that the Philippines had dropped into our laps I confess I did not know what to do with them. I sought counsel from all sidesDemocrats as well as Republicansbut got little help. I thought first we would take only Manila; then Luzon; then other islands perhaps also. I walked the floor of the White House night after night until midnight; and I am not ashamed to tell you, gentlemen, that I went down on my knees and prayed Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me this wayI dont know how it was, but it came:

(1) That we could not give them back to Spainthat would be cowardly and dishonorable;

(2) that we could not turn them over to France and Germanyour commercial rivals in the Orientthat would be bad business and discreditable;

(3) that we could not leave them to themselvesthey were unfit for self-governmentand they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spains was; and

(4) that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by Gods grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died. [1]

And then I went to bed, and went to sleep, and slept soundly, and the next morning I sent for the chief engineer of the War Department (our map-maker), and I told him to put the Philippines on the map of the United States (pointing to a large map on the wall of his office), and there they are, and there they will stay while I am President!--President William McKinley.[2]"

Didnt a certain American general Douglas MacArthur free the Philippines from the Japanese? If you are going to argue points, how about keep them relative to the topic at hand?

[Lukecan]

Well Thailand was never colonised in the first place, while Philippines were like colonised by nearly everyone lol. You can not turn slavery into a success story, I'm sorry to say. Nearly no country that was colonised in the past has become a success, Singapore and HK is the only exception to this rule, and they are small island countries.

A country that stems from an empire will always be a success story, no matter how poor it is, you cant change the past. Turkey, Thailand,Iran are all great examples of this

Edited January 13, 2015 by Lukecan

[thailiketoo]

Your silly reply does bring up a good point. Perhaps the Americans ruined the country after slaughtering an estimated 220,000 Filipinos during the 3 1/2 year Philippine-American War and then governing the country in a half-hearted fashion until they granted independence in 1946. In 1899 President McKinley didn't want the Philippines.

"Historian Paul Kramer revisits the Philippine–American War", The JHU Gazette (Johns Hopkins University) 35 (29), April 10, 2006. Death toll 12,000

Guillermo, Emil (February 8, 2004), "A first taste of empire", Death toll 20,000

Big difference, 200,000 off somehow.

[thailiketoo]

Well Thailand was never colonised in the first place, while Philippines were like colonised by nearly everyone lol.

Philippines were colonized by Spain who later gave control of the nation to America. Spain is not nearly everyone.

[bonobo]

. Nearly no country that was colonised in the past has become a success, Singapore and HK is the only exception to this rule, and they are small island countries.

The USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Chile, Mexico--all were colonies.

[smotherb]

Burma is over 50 years behind Thailand and Bangkok is a first world city. Manila isn't.

"Bangkok is a first world city". Really? Have you been there?

Certainly Manila is very rough, but that doesn't make Bangkok first world. It isn't by a long shot.

No mention of Burma?

[thailiketoo]

Burma is over 50 years behind Thailand and Bangkok is a first world city. Manila isn't.

"Bangkok is a first world city". Really? Have you been there?

Certainly Manila is very rough, but that doesn't make Bangkok first world. It isn't by a long shot.

No mention of Burma?

Look up the Teuschers Chocolate locations in Asia. http://www.teuscher.com/store-locator/asia/

[tropo]

Maybe the Filipinos waiting for the return of the Americans to run the country again.

Your silly reply does bring up a good point. Perhaps the Americans ruined the country after slaughtering an estimated 220,000 Filipinos during the 3 1/2 year Philippine-American War and then governing the country in a half-hearted fashion until they granted independence in 1946. In 1899 President McKinley didn't want the Philippines.

Here's how it started:

http://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Philippine-American_War

"American Justification

President McKinley told Congress that his inspiration for invading the Philippines came in a dream from God. "Hold a moment longer! Not quite yet, gentlemen! Before you go I would like to say just a word about the Philippine business. I have been criticized a good deal about the Philippines, but dont deserve it. The truth is I didnt want the Philippines, and when they came to us, as a gift from the gods, I did not know what to do with them. When the Spanish War broke out Dewey was at Hongkong, and I ordered him to go to Manila and to capture or destroy the Spanish fleet, and he had to; because, if defeated, he had no place to refit on that side of the globe, and if the Dons were victorious they would likely cross the Pacific and ravage our Oregon and California coasts. And so he had to destroy the Spanish fleet, and did it! But that was as far as I thought then.

When I next realized that the Philippines had dropped into our laps I confess I did not know what to do with them. I sought counsel from all sidesDemocrats as well as Republicansbut got little help. I thought first we would take only Manila; then Luzon; then other islands perhaps also. I walked the floor of the White House night after night until midnight; and I am not ashamed to tell you, gentlemen, that I went down on my knees and prayed Almighty God for light and guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me this wayI dont know how it was, but it came:

(1) That we could not give them back to Spainthat would be cowardly and dishonorable;

(2) that we could not turn them over to France and Germanyour commercial rivals in the Orientthat would be bad business and discreditable;

(3) that we could not leave them to themselvesthey were unfit for self-governmentand they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spains was; and

(4) that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by Gods grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died. [1]

And then I went to bed, and went to sleep, and slept soundly, and the next morning I sent for the chief engineer of the War Department (our map-maker), and I told him to put the Philippines on the map of the United States (pointing to a large map on the wall of his office), and there they are, and there they will stay while I am President!--President William McKinley.[2]"

Didnt a certain American general Douglas MacArthur free the Philippines from the Japanese? If you are going to argue points, how about keep them relative to the topic at hand?

How about you concentrate on the posts you're replying to because it was quite clear that I was trying to explain to Lammbock that the Americans could well be a reason why the Philippines is in such a mess.

It was actually the combined allied fleet which freed the Philippines from the Japanese, not just the Americans (Australia, NZ, Canada, Britain etc). Douglas MacArthur also fled from the Philippines and hid in Brisbane Australia for nearly 2 1/2 years, for which they gave him a medal of honour. President Truman wasn't too happy about his "I shall return" speech because he was trying to snatch all the glory for himself, as he was a bit of an egomaniac.

.. however the only interest America had with the Philippines at that time was as a strategic location to stage their battle with the Japan.

[tropo]

Well Thailand was never colonised in the first place, while Philippines were like colonised by nearly everyone lol.

Philippines were colonized by Spain who later gave control of the nation to America. Spain is not nearly everyone.

LOL. Nothing was "given". The Philippines was taken from Spain during the Spanish-American War in 1898, which lead to the Philippine Revolution and then the Philippine-American War.

[2fishin2]

If not for the brave actions of Americans and Australians in the Pacific theatre Asia might be a totally different place. Anyways, nothing wrong with the Philippines.

[tropo]

If not for the brave actions of Americans and Australians in the Pacific theatre Asia might be a totally different place. Anyways, nothing wrong with the Philippines.

It's nice that you're admitting that people of many nationalities were fighting and dying together. Truth be known, the American military living in Australia between 1942 and 1944 were not easy for the Australians to get along with.... one Australian was killed during what they called the "Battle of Brisbane" on 26 & 27 November 1942.

http://www.ozatwar.com/ozatwar/bob.htm

[Rhys]

Hmmmmm.. of the cuff.. English is spoken with various degrees of proficiency in PI.. In Thailand, sometimes it is great not to understand what people are saying... You would tire of the B fest, rants and so forth. Sounds better in Thai.. however the best Tagalong...Po..tang and a mo..does have a nice ring compared to US hole...

And of course, Thai women are .... Pinos.. on the other have .... a nice blend of Spanish firrreeerrrr.

[Mcffee]

'Why is Thailand such a success compared to the Philippines?'

Only with the girls it's just opposite.

[thailiketoo]

How about you concentrate on the posts you're replying to because it was quite clear that I was trying to explain to Lammbock that the Americans could well be a reason why the Philippines is in such a mess.

It was actually the combined allied fleet which freed the Philippines from the Japanese, not just the Americans (Australia, NZ, Canada, Britain etc). Douglas MacArthur also fled from the Philippines and hid in Brisbane Australia for nearly 2 1/2 years, for which they gave him a medal of honour. President Truman wasn't too happy about his "I shall return" speech because he was trying to snatch all the glory for himself, as he was a bit of an egomaniac.

.. however the only interest America had with the Philippines at that time was as a strategic location to stage their battle with the Japan.

Douglas MacArthur (26 January 1880 – 5 April 1964) was an American five-star general and Field Marshal of the Philippine Army. MacArthur became Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers, Southwest Pacific Area. So he commanded all of the Allied Assets that you mentioned and it is fair to say he liberated the Philippines. Normally the supreme commander gets both the credit or blame for victories or defeats, like Napoleon.

You missed the Truman MacArthur argument by one war and the reason. MacArthur and Truman got into an argument during the Korean war not WWII and Truman fired him because MacArthur was a political opponent of Truman. The I shall return speech was in 1942. Truman President in 1945.

MacArthur wanted to free the Philippines many in the US government thought it was a waste of time but MacArthur prevailed.

Edited January 13, 2015 by thailiketoo

[thailiketoo]

Well Thailand was never colonised in the first place, while Philippines were like colonised by nearly everyone lol.

Philippines were colonized by Spain who later gave control of the nation to America. Spain is not nearly everyone.

LOL. Nothing was "given". The Philippines was taken from Spain during the Spanish-American War in 1898, which lead to the Philippine Revolution and then the Philippine-American War.

The USA gave $20 million dollars to Spain and Spain gave the the Philippines to the USA. Treaty of Paris: August - December 1898.

[tropo]

Well Thailand was never colonised in the first place, while Philippines were like colonised by nearly everyone lol.

Philippines were colonized by Spain who later gave control of the nation to America. Spain is not nearly everyone.

LOL. Nothing was "given". The Philippines was taken from Spain during the Spanish-American War in 1898, which lead to the Philippine Revolution and then the Philippine-American War.

The USA gave $20 million dollars to Spain and Spain gave the the Philippines to the USA. Treaty of Paris: August - December 1898.

I apologize for my error in my previous post. As you said, the conflict with Truman was in a different war at a different time. MacArthur and President Roosevelt were involved in a difficult relationship at the time of his "I shall return speech".

Regarding the decision to take the Philippines back from the Japanese. There were many reasons he returned in October 1944 one of which was a strategic decision that allowed the final push for Japan to start earlier. It wasn't all about a personal decision of MacArthur to keep his promise. By the time he got to Luzon only a 3rd of the troops he left behind at Corregidor were still alive.

Regarding the USA giving Spain $20 million for the Philippines: The way you put it gives entirely the wrong impression of what actually happened. It was part of a peace treaty to end the war with Spain. (The call for peace was made by Spain, not the USA). The choice was to either end the war and take up the offer, renegotiate or continue to fight. The USA considered $20 million was cheap compared to what it would have cost to continue fighting. Either way, the Philippines would have ended up under the control of the USA... taken or paid for.

If you're really interested in learning about the finer details of what lead to the payment, this is required reading:

http://alsalca.blogspot.com/2013/04/did-andrew-carnegie-offer-20-million_3064.html

Which leads me to the comment I made a few posts ago: The USA didn't really want the Philippines.

They wanted to give them independence, but messed up the process in a big way, leading to the Philippine Revolution and the Philippine - American War. You could think of Afghanistan and Iraq as modern day equivalents of how they didn't achieve anything good in countries they probably shouldn't have been involved with in the first place. At the time of the Spanish-American War racism was rife in the USA. Slavery hadn't long been abolished. Politicians referred to Filipinos as "little brown men". Is it any wonder they didn't do the Philippines many favours. (think how they treated their own black population back then). Some people will want to conclude that teaching them English was a good thing, but there are many countries that do better that don't speak English (Thailand?).

Because the USA didn't really want the Philippines, they governed it in a very half-hearted fashion for nearly 50 years and made big mistakes along the way....

[fitzcaraldo]

In education level philippines is higher i think

Vietnam war has helped both country developement

Thailand is a naturally rich and concise country and philippine naturally poorer at the exeption of the undevelopped mindanao and spread on so many island that it is an handicap for infrastructure

The strict feodal and family system in thailand that makes them stick together at contrario the catholic family leads to a surpopulation and lowering of the level of income when most family in thailand are set on 2 children since a while

The chinese management and funding helped thailand

Corruption on a similar level