Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[AleG]

This is false: "Miller's pants were planted in Ware's suitcase by the police.", as clearly stated on the link I provided (and you quoted), the shorts where in Miller's luggage, not Ware's.

So Miller's pants were planted in Miller's suitcase and Chris Ware was questioned about it ? Gets rather confusing doesn't it.

Miller had shorts on or off when he was murdered, so why would anyone be looking for a pair of trousers. I agree that Thai's/Burmese don't mind swapping clothes but it is not something the Brits do. That is of course if the police thought that Ware was wearing Miller's trousers on the night of the murder.

Glad you didn't question the taxi driver being paid to lie.

Edit.Just had a re-read of this story. The police believe the trousers that were found in Miller's luggage belonged to Chris Ware.

Why would Ware put his trousers in Miller's suitcase ?

It seems he like Sean was got out of the way a little to quickly.

Of course you are confused, it's a natural consequence of taking conspiracy theories seriously, they don't have consistency between them (not to mention the lack of internal consistency). Once you stop taking people's speculations as facts things become more clear.

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of shorts with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the shorts may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the shorts, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's shorts so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody shorts.

[thailandchilli]

As was discussed several months back, if the remains were sent to the UK embalmed -- and such would be the standard procedure and there was no indication that any other procedure was followed -- the UK coroner would've had problem enough getting sufficient DNA to identify the remains let alone DNA from some other party.

I believe your correct, it would be very difficult to extract the DNA of any foriegn body from Hannah once it was embalmed, if not impossible. However the Thai Authorities had the opportunity handed to them on a plate by the UK authorities to take independent DNA testing of the B2 while the UK police were in Thailand. They did not allow that to happen, thats a huge concern if they had nothing to hide

[AleG]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this.

IF?❓❔

Indeed, why hasn't the defense pursued that route to prove the innocence of the Burmese men?

Instead they are dragging the case for months.

Simple really, the RTP and Thai authorities would never allow that to happen...............

One of the UK police/government prime concerns and requirements was to get independent DNA testing of the B2, of course this never happened, wonder why??

"Wonder why??"

Let me guess, a widespread conspiracy involving the highest levels of Thai and UK government to hide the truth for... reasons?

[loonodingle]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this.

IF?❓❔

Indeed, why hasn't the defense pursued that route to prove the innocence of the Burmese men?

Instead they are dragging the case for months.

This will be because as you have spent the last 4 months telling us, the Brits were there to observe only.

The Brits will not release their findings until the case is over.

I.e. the Brits have let it's nation down as well as the people of Thailand and Burma.

Berybert,

Can I correct you there.

The coroner will release the autopsy reports to the defence upon request. This will include any toxicology reports and the request has to be made through the appropriate channels. That's standard procedure in all trials. what they will not do is make it public.

The person who has let us down is David Cameron. he led us to believe we was sending the MPS to Thailand to Verify DNA. They didn't. Its acknowledged in writing by the Met Police to Reprieve. They done hardly anything of substance. A waste of time. and a hindrance to the defence as subsequent press releases would have you believe that the family's seem convinced.

That would be prejudicial to a UK court trial and they should not have done that. Its contempt

[thailandchilli]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this.

IF?❓❔

Indeed, why hasn't the defense pursued that route to prove the innocence of the Burmese men?

Instead they are dragging the case for months.

Simple really, the RTP and Thai authorities would never allow that to happen...............

One of the UK police/government prime concerns and requirements was to get independent DNA testing of the B2, of course this never happened, wonder why??

"Wonder why??"

Let me guess, a widespread conspiracy involving the highest levels of Thai and UK government to hide the truth for... reasons?

Really?? Then why would the UK state publicly that this is exactly what they wanted, an Independent testing of the B2

[loonodingle]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this.

IF?❓❔

Indeed, why hasn't the defense pursued that route to prove the innocence of the Burmese men?

Instead they are dragging the case for months.

Simple really, the RTP and Thai authorities would never allow that to happen...............

One of the UK police/government prime concerns and requirements was to get independent DNA testing of the B2, of course this never happened, wonder why??

"Wonder why??"

Let me guess, a widespread conspiracy involving the highest levels of Thai and UK government to hide the truth for... reasons?

At Last Ale G you have finally got it..

You have seen the light and I only have one thing to say to you man

[AleG]

"Wonder why??"

Let me guess, a widespread conspiracy involving the highest levels of Thai and UK government to hide the truth for... reasons?

Really?? Then why would the UK state publicly that this is exactly what they wanted, an Independent testing of the B2

What is stopping the defense from doing it?

[loonodingle]

As was discussed several months back, if the remains were sent to the UK embalmed -- and such would be the standard procedure and there was no indication that any other procedure was followed -- the UK coroner would've had problem enough getting sufficient DNA to identify the remains let alone DNA from some other party.

I believe your correct, it would be very difficult to extract the DNA of any foriegn body from Hannah once it was embalmed, if not impossible. However the Thai Authorities had the opportunity handed to them on a plate by the UK authorities to take independent DNA testing of the B2 while the UK police were in Thailand. They did not allow that to happen, thats a huge concern if they had nothing to hide

They can take DNA from Dinosaurs ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_DNA

The clever guys can get DNA from almost anything. Their is some excellent specialist's out there. They are solving crimes going back decades from DNA extracted from exhibits stored.

So I think they can.

[berybert]

This is false: "Miller's pants were planted in Ware's suitcase by the police.", as clearly stated on the link I provided (and you quoted), the shorts where in Miller's luggage, not Ware's.

So Miller's pants were planted in Miller's suitcase and Chris Ware was questioned about it ? Gets rather confusing doesn't it.

Miller had shorts on or off when he was murdered, so why would anyone be looking for a pair of trousers. I agree that Thai's/Burmese don't mind swapping clothes but it is not something the Brits do. That is of course if the police thought that Ware was wearing Miller's trousers on the night of the murder.

Glad you didn't question the taxi driver being paid to lie.

Edit.Just had a re-read of this story. The police believe the trousers that were found in Miller's luggage belonged to Chris Ware.

Why would Ware put his trousers in Miller's suitcase ?

It seems he like Sean was got out of the way a little to quickly.

Of course you are confused, it's a natural consequence of taking conspiracy theories seriously, they don't have consistency between them (not to mention the lack of internal consistency). Once you stop taking people's speculations as facts things become more clear.

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of shorts with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the shorts may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the shorts, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's shorts so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody shorts.

Seems we are all getting a little confused. We were told they were a pair of trousers. From there you have changed them to a pair of pants and now a pair of shorts.

What is the need to change the trousers into shorts ?

You can carry on with the good policing. Just got to hope no one catches you out changing the name of things to fit the story.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-top-bangkok-cop-flies-koh-tao-investigate-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-murders-1466049

[thailandchilli]

"Wonder why??"

Let me guess, a widespread conspiracy involving the highest levels of Thai and UK government to hide the truth for... reasons?

Really?? Then why would the UK state publicly that this is exactly what they wanted, an Independent testing of the B2

What is stopping the defense from doing it?

Get real, if the UK police were not allowed to do it, why do you think the Thai prosecutors would give the defense the original DNA samples from Hannah's body and then take fresh DNA of the B2 to then have it independently tested to international standards outside of Thailand?

[thailandchilli]

As was discussed several months back, if the remains were sent to the UK embalmed -- and such would be the standard procedure and there was no indication that any other procedure was followed -- the UK coroner would've had problem enough getting sufficient DNA to identify the remains let alone DNA from some other party.

I believe your correct, it would be very difficult to extract the DNA of any foriegn body from Hannah once it was embalmed, if not impossible. However the Thai Authorities had the opportunity handed to them on a plate by the UK authorities to take independent DNA testing of the B2 while the UK police were in Thailand. They did not allow that to happen, thats a huge concern if they had nothing to hide

They can take DNA from Dinosaurs ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_DNA

The clever guys can get DNA from almost anything. Their is some excellent specialist's out there. They are solving crimes going back decades from DNA extracted from exhibits stored.

So I think they can.

Getting Hannah's DNA would of course be absolutely no problem, getting the DNA of a suspect inside Hannah's body could be much more problematic if the body has been cleansed and embalmed by the Thai authorities

[greenchair]

No sorry this was the only version I found. There was some mention of rice bags as well, could not make much sense out of the translation.

Is this the photo you are looking for greenchair? This from an article in komchadluek. Not sure if I am allowed to link. The google translation from Thai to English is terrible. However, one part states '1 piece with blood stain on foot slippers'. Looks to be a thong [flip flop] at the base of the tree on the right side....hard to tell as when enlarged it distorts the image.

Do you have any more pics of the log? ?

Thanks I will keep looking. I think it is there in the rubble somewhere

[JLCrab]

As was discussed several months back, if the remains were sent to the UK embalmed -- and such would be the standard procedure and there was no indication that any other procedure was followed -- the UK coroner would've had problem enough getting sufficient DNA to identify the remains let alone DNA from some other party.

I believe your correct, it would be very difficult to extract the DNA of any foriegn body from Hannah once it was embalmed, if not impossible. However the Thai Authorities had the opportunity handed to them on a plate by the UK authorities to take independent DNA testing of the B2 while the UK police were in Thailand. They did not allow that to happen, thats a huge concern if they had nothing to hide

They can take DNA from Dinosaurs ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_DNA

The clever guys can get DNA from almost anything. Their is some excellent specialist's out there. They are solving crimes going back decades from DNA extracted from exhibits stored.

So I think they can.

Getting Hannah's DNA would of course be absolutely no problem, getting the DNA of a suspect inside Hannah's body could be much more problematic if the body has been cleansed and embalmed by the Thai authorities

From what I have read, after a body has been embalmed, sometimes the only available source for DNA for purposes of identification of remains is eyebrow hair.

The body of King Richard III was recently found in an excavation site and identified via DNA but Richard III had not been embalmed.

Edited January 10, 2015 by JLCrab

[Eirene]

Do you think it possible that the fellow in black is the same as the running man? The images are so poor it is hard to tell. Do you know why there is a photo of the running man in dark shorts holding a phone?

No sorry this was the only version I found. There was some mention of rice bags as well, could not make much sense out of the translation.

Is this the photo you are looking for greenchair? This from an article in komchadluek. Not sure if I am allowed to link. The google translation from Thai to English is terrible. However, one part states '1 piece with blood stain on foot slippers'. Looks to be a thong [flip flop] at the base of the tree on the right side....hard to tell as when enlarged it distorts the image.

Do you have any more pics of the log? ?

Thanks I will keep looking. I think it is there in the rubble somewhere

[catsanddogs]

Is this the photo you are looking for greenchair? This from an article in komchadluek. Not sure if I am allowed to link. The google translation from Thai to English is terrible. However, one part states '1 piece with blood stain on foot slippers'. Looks to be a thong [flip flop] at the base of the tree on the right side....hard to tell as when enlarged it distorts the image.

Oh thank you that you are looking. No the one I saw was very clear and I think it was by a rock or a log. It was very clear. Alert alert. We are looking for a jandal, flipflop, thong?????101

There's this one but they are pink, could belong to Hannah

The article of clothing to the right is the tee shirt belonging to David?

The clothing on the left is the pair of mystery dark shorts? Not the shorts David was wearing on the evening of the 14th as far as we know because they were beige and there have been pics to show beige shorts neatly placed on a rock at the crime scene. In the above pic there looks too much fabric there to me to be shorts and I think they could be long trousers.

With reference to the beige trousers found in Millers luggage which police ruled out as not blood on the bottoms of them. I wonder if DNA was taken from them because DNA can still show up if clothing has been washed and bleached especially if taken from the seams of garments. On the photo of the stained beige trousers it looked as if there was only staining to the bottom and if this was blood this could be consistent with someone dragging a bloodied body along the beach. What else could it have been on the bottoms of those trousers that looked like they had faded blood on them? What might one do on holiday to get them in such a mess?

[catsanddogs]

I was thinking about those trousers that were found in David and Chris Ware's room. Apparently the police tested them and they came back negative for traces of blood, and instead the stains were from "some other chemical substance..." I've been trying to figure out what that other substance could possibly be and why the police would not say what it is.

Then I stumbled across something very interesting:

Apparently there are 2 basic types of bleach found in household cleaning products. The more common type is chlorine-based, and if you soak a bloodstained article of clothing in a chlorine bleach solution it will visually remove the bloodstain but does not remove traces of hemoglobin, and so if the police do a standard test for the presence of blood using luminol or phenolphthalein there will still be traces of hemoglobin which I believe will shine in the presence of a UV light,

The other type of bleach is what they call an oxygen bleach, which uses an oxidizing agent such as hydrogen peroxide, and this type of bleach removes all traces of hemoglobin however the stain on the clothing will still be visible, although somewhat faded:

"To properly assess whether bleach could fully remove blood, researchers soaked some bloodstained clothing in oxygen bleach for a couple of hours. After the bleaching, stains did look faded, although they were still somewhat noticeable. On the other hand, even though there was some visible marking, luminol and phenolphthalein didn't detect the haemoglobin on the clothing."

"The results are worrying because a stain on clothing could be assumed to occur from something else when a test shows up negative for haemoglobin. Eventually, valuable evidence could ultimately be dismissed, which then affects the entire criminal investigation and trial proceedings. Forensics experts will not examine and check for important DNA Evidence until they have initially found an appropriately identified blood sample."

(Source: http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/detecting-evidence-after-bleaching.html)

So I guess that would mean that a pair of heavily bloodstained trousers, in the space of only a couple of hours in a oxygen bleach solution, could end up looking something like this:

Trousers.jpg

I wonder if the DNA from the blood would still be present after bleaching. I also wonder where those trousers may be now...

In a previous post AleG managed to convince me that the trousers had not been planted, but even if he's wrong, how the hell could the Burmese lads get access to David and Chris' room? This looks like a smoking gun to me...

I think someone needs to be having a chat with this young man:

Chris Ware.jpg

I read early reports saying that 2 of their friends confirmed these were the trousers that Chris Ware was wearing that night. In the CCTV footage he is seen wearing shorts, but then I think I read that he went back to the room with David, then David said he was going out to buy a pack of smokes and actually went looking for Hannah at AC Bar. It would not surprise me to learn that when David didn't come back Chris went out looking for him - I wonder what he wore when/if he went out a second time...

Was he not the guy that was reported as being gay...?

I think you are way of mark here. If that was blood they would know. Do you honestly think after 3 Asian DNA is found on Hannah that you can peddled this. The slightest chance of him being Involved and they would have had him. UNLIKE Sean McAnna who left the island with a fanfare and pictures with the police chief.

I think it strange that Chris Ware left the island so fast. Even if he had a flight booked, I think the circumstances warrant changing the flight. IMO the right thing to do would be to stick around, answer any questions the police may have that may assist them with finding the killers, take care of David's personal belongings, and, most importantly, be there to offer some comfort to the parents of your childhood friend when they arrive in a place they're probably unfamiliar and when they're no doubt going through the most horrific event of their lives. I have no doubt the sight of a familiar face would have been of great comfort to them.

In fact, did any of Hannah's friends stay to meet her parents when they arrived? If not I find that also somewhat odd, and lacking in compassion,

Ware's friends say he was wearing the trousers. He makes a run for the airport as fast as his legs can carry him after answering initial police questions. He gets stopped at the airport when they find the trousers. When they test the trousers for blood the test shows negative and he is allowed to leave.

I think it safe to assume that if the stains on the trousers were found to be Hannah's blood he would be locked up now and everyone would see it as an open and shut case. Has he ever said what caused the stain? He was wearing the trousers, so you would think he would know. If there's a simple explanation it would make sense for him to make it public to remove any suspicion. I personally have never had stains like that on any trousers I have owned, and I suspect neither have most people, so what are the chances of a pair of trousers showing up with stains like that on the lower legs on the night that a bloody double homicide occurs.... well, let's just say if the stains aren't blood then it's an incredibly bizarre coincidence.

DNA testing is expensive, time consuming and most testing labs have a backlog of evidence waiting to be tested, so it is logical that if the police were to send everything they find that resembles a bloodstain to the DNA lab for testing there will be additional expense and the backlog at the labs would just get worse. So instead the standard procedure that police forensics follow is to do presumptive tests on any stain that they think could be a blood stain. If the presumptive tests show positive for blood the item gets sent to the lab for analysis. If the test shows negative that's the end of it.

The police have only said that the stain was found not to be blood but some other chemical substance, which sounds a lot like they just did a presumptive test which showed up negative. The difference between Christopher Ware being locked up in Thailand and being free in the UK now is the result of that presumptive test, and in the link I posted it explains that it is possible to beat that test by soaking in an oxygen bleach solution for a couple of hours. That ain't rocket science.

This article suggests that oxygen bleach may not remove the DNA from bloodstains. If it's possible I would think that the defense team should request access to those trousers to conduct their own tests.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CDAQFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownloads.hindawi.com%2Fjournals%2Ftswj%2F2010%2F825464.pdf&ei=IqKvVNP3FZKgugTz3oH4BA&usg=AFQjCNEnQn3XHBpswrElH7sD0AdJwByd4w&cad=rja

And I still think someone should have a chat with Mr Ware, if only to hear his side of the story.

Agree. Fear or guilt made him leave so soon. And why did his bother James leave the island the 'night before the murders'?

[catsanddogs]

I think it strange that Chris Ware left the island so fast. Even if he had a flight booked, I think the circumstances warrant changing the flight. IMO the right thing to do would be to stick around, answer any questions the police may have that may assist them with finding the killers, take care of David's personal belongings, and, most importantly, be there to offer some comfort to the parents of your childhood friend when they arrive in a place they're probably unfamiliar and when they're no doubt going through the most horrific event of their lives. I have no doubt the sight of a familiar face would have been of great comfort to them.

In fact, did any of Hannah's friends stay to meet her parents when they arrived? If not I find that also somewhat odd, and lacking in compassion,

Ware's friends say he was wearing the trousers. He makes a run for the airport as fast as his legs can carry him after answering initial police questions. He gets stopped at the airport when they find the trousers. When they test the trousers for blood the test shows negative and he is allowed to leave.

I think it safe to assume that if the stains on the trousers were found to be Hannah's blood he would be locked up now and everyone would see it as an open and shut case. Has he ever said what caused the stain? He was wearing the trousers, so you would think he would know. If there's a simple explanation it would make sense for him to make it public to remove any suspicion. I personally have never had stains like that on any trousers I have owned, and I suspect neither have most people, so what are the chances of a pair of trousers showing up with stains like that on the lower legs on the night that a bloody double homicide occurs.... well, let's just say if the stains aren't blood then it's an incredibly bizarre coincidence.

DNA testing is expensive, time consuming and most testing labs have a backlog of evidence waiting to be tested, so it is logical that if the police were to send everything they find that resembles a bloodstain to the DNA lab for testing there will be additional expense and the backlog at the labs would just get worse. So instead the standard procedure that police forensics follow is to do presumptive tests on any stain that they think could be a blood stain. If the presumptive tests show positive for blood the item gets sent to the lab for analysis. If the test shows negative that's the end of it.

The police have only said that the stain was found not to be blood but some other chemical substance, which sounds a lot like they just did a presumptive test which showed up negative. The difference between Christopher Ware being locked up in Thailand and being free in the UK now is the result of that presumptive test, and in the link I posted it explains that it is possible to beat that test by soaking in an oxygen bleach solution for a couple of hours. That ain't rocket science.

This article suggests that oxygen bleach may not remove the DNA from bloodstains. If it's possible I would think that the defense team should request access to those trousers to conduct their own tests.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CDAQFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownloads.hindawi.com%2Fjournals%2Ftswj%2F2010%2F825464.pdf&ei=IqKvVNP3FZKgugTz3oH4BA&usg=AFQjCNEnQn3XHBpswrElH7sD0AdJwByd4w&cad=rja

And I still think someone should have a chat with Mr Ware, if only to hear his side of the story.

There's just one little problem with your grand theory, the pants were Miller's not Ware's:

"As for the pair of stained pants found in Miller's luggage, the general admitted that the substance found on the clothing was not blood and that they belonged to Miller"

The RTP have said a lot of thing that turned out to be untrue.

[aimbc]

Can we all agree not to answer comments made by someone who wants to wait until the trial starts. This person comments just makes the thread so hard to follow. It's like noise in all this discussion.

And I am not sure why this person wants to discuss anything as he has nothing to add, because he only believes the police and not even the suspect, who is not been found guilty.

I want new information to come out of this discussion and not someone criticizing on the side line.

[Eirene]

David was a structural engineer and had left Jersey on July 18 for a six week work placement as part of a scholarship at a mining company in Australia before travelling to Thailand on holiday. The stains couldbe from the mining job.

[catsanddogs]

has anyone recently tried to walk at a reasonable pace wearing just one flip flop ?

Most ppl would not bother , barefoot would b the better option

If you are committed to the theory about a guy with one shoe , and his connection to the beach , could you please at least show us the pictures rather than keep on and on about it .

My guess is that if you are exiting a murder scene , even after a couple of beers , that you would notice you'd left your shoe behind . Think about it !

Was thinking similar thoughts. If you lost a shoe the most likely thing to do would be to take the other one off and walk bare footed. But it does look like that man has a shoe missing.

[greenchair]

Hannah clothes would be chock full of dna.

[Eirene]

catsanddogs...the Ware brothers left the island together.

Edit: Might be wrong there. If I recall Chris went to meet him at the airport to fly home. I'm sure there is a photo of them together when the police went to bring Chris back for questioning.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Eirene

[catsanddogs]

No , I am saying. On the other picture. A1 is supposed to be Muang. But at 11?12 Muang was in the shop. If the time is right he cannot be in 2 places. The jandal was at the crime scene. That man that cannot be any of the boys may or may not be involved. I am just saying he is not any of the boys.

Not with you. The pic of man with shoe missing is at 02:01 so why couldn't it be one of the Burmese suspects or Maung?

[greenchair]

Do you think it possible that the fellow in black is the same as the running man? The images are so poor it is hard to tell. Do you know why there is a photo of the running man in dark shorts holding a phone?

No sorry this was the only version I found. There was some mention of rice bags as well, could not make much sense out of the translation.

Is this the photo you are looking for greenchair? This from an article in komchadluek. Not sure if I am allowed to link. The google translation from Thai to English is terrible. However, one part states '1 piece with blood stain on foot slippers'. Looks to be a thong [flip flop] at the base of the tree on the right side....hard to tell as when enlarged it distorts the image.

Do you have any more pics of the log? ?

Thanks I will keep looking. I think it is there in the rubble somewhere

This thread is on about the pants at the moment. I will go to Burmese are innocent and put them up so we can compare.

[catsanddogs]

Where is my jandal?

post-223227-0-23285100-1420519434.jpg

ok thx

are you really saying that at 2 am that the crime has already been committed ?

Can't have been because friends of the deceased said the left the club sometime between 3 and 4 am. unless they got this wrong or are lying.

[catsanddogs]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this.

IF?❓❔

Agree, but would add 'if the UK personally collected DNA from the B2'.

[catsanddogs]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this.

IF?❓❔

Indeed, why hasn't the defense pursued that route to prove the innocence of the Burmese men?

Instead they are dragging the case for months.

Simple really, the RTP and Thai authorities would never allow that to happen...............

One of the UK police/government prime concerns and requirements was to get independent DNA testing of the B2, of course this never happened, wonder why??

In light of what the world wide public were told about DNA verification being one of the main reasons Scotland Yard went to Koh Tao, maybe another petition could be started for the UK police to carry out this task.

[greenchair]

Where is my jandal?

post-223227-0-23285100-1420519434.jpg

ok thx

are you really saying that at 2 am that the crime has already been committed ?

Can't have been because friends of the deceased said the left the club sometime between 3 and 4 am. unless they got this wrong or are lying.

Not saying he did it. Just saying the jandal is on the beach next to the log or a rock.

[catsanddogs]

This is false: "Miller's pants were planted in Ware's suitcase by the police.", as clearly stated on the link I provided (and you quoted), the shorts where in Miller's luggage, not Ware's.

So Miller's pants were planted in Miller's suitcase and Chris Ware was questioned about it ? Gets rather confusing doesn't it.

Miller had shorts on or off when he was murdered, so why would anyone be looking for a pair of trousers. I agree that Thai's/Burmese don't mind swapping clothes but it is not something the Brits do. That is of course if the police thought that Ware was wearing Miller's trousers on the night of the murder.

Glad you didn't question the taxi driver being paid to lie.

Edit.Just had a re-read of this story. The police believe the trousers that were found in Miller's luggage belonged to Chris Ware.

Why would Ware put his trousers in Miller's suitcase ?

It seems he like Sean was got out of the way a little to quickly.

Of course you are confused, it's a natural consequence of taking conspiracy theories seriously, they don't have consistency between them (not to mention the lack of internal consistency). Once you stop taking people's speculations as facts things become more clear.

Miller and Ware were sharing a room, the police investigated the room, found a pair of shorts with what they thought may be blood stains; since it would had been improvable for Miller to go back to his room to change blood stained clothing after being murdered the police assumed the shorts may be Ware's. Now here is where things diverge between the people speculating here and actual police work, with that assumption they actually tested the shorts, no blood; furthermore, they determined they were Miller's shorts so they moved on; on the other hand the people that cling to speculation regardless of facts and developments are still stuck wondering about the bloody shorts.

Get your facts right or you'll muddy the waters further. They were Trousers with the stains not Shorts. And since there is no footage available that shows what the victims were wearing after 2am ish it is perfectly plausible that Miller and David, or both, changed into trousers at some point after 2am. I think those long beige trousers with the pink/brown staining at the bottoms are very relevant to the investigation. Maybe someone could get hold of some blood, soak some beige chinos or the like in it, then wash it out with a solution of bleach and see what the resulting colour come out as. Unfortunately I am unable to get hold of a quantity of blood myself to experiment.

Edited January 10, 2015 by catsanddogs

[loonodingle]

If the b2 dna were sent to England. If the Eng coroner got dna from Hannah. If the dna matched. I would be finished with all this.

IF?❓❔

Agree, but would add 'if the UK personally collected DNA from the B2'.

Seans Thai Trip