Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[loonodingle]

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things

Who.

When.

Where.

How.

And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.

It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.

As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not withhold this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

Edited January 17, 2015 by loonodingle

[StealthEnergiser]

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things

Who.

When.

Where.

How.

And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.

It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.

As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not with old this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

On your 4th point How

What happens if the UK coroner has a different version than the thai coroner ?

Edited January 17, 2015 by StealthEnergiser

[loonodingle]

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things

Who.

When.

Where.

How.

And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.

It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.

As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not with old this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

On your 4th point How

What happens if the UK coroner has a different version than the thai coroner ?

Good question. As I said the defence will be getting a copy of what they concluded as the cause of death. Itmay seem simple to answer? The problem I can see is the Thai coroner has already been there. Unfortunately only interested parties can get access to the report pre inquest. That does include defence but i wouldn't hold your breath for a major breakthrough.

[aimbc]

It's more than likely the rtp is spinning the story. Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this, and then found the two Burmese as suspect. And was the DNA testing done by a forensic team? Or someone other than the police force.

One just don't make such a bold statement about the murder without even completing investigation. You are right too say that I have no proof and it's just pure speculation. Just as much speculation as you think the police have the right person. And that the investigation was done properly. Yea, the problem is that most people know the investigation was not done properly and that the real killer is out there still. But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody. And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth. Because that is the idea of the Thai police, to have people forget about this horrific crime so they can pin it on the two in order to protect someone high up in the island. But people like me will never allow out to happen.

Don't tell me that that the big guys in the island have high moral integrity. With so much drugs going around these full moon parties and the population so little, the police some how can't stop the drug sales. Right...credibility and reason for shielding the big guys is obviously there. Stakes are high on the island.

And I thank you for helping out bring to attention on how important this case is. Beside, without your comments, I would not have any comic relief from this serious matter.

"Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this"

Yes, I can, it comes from the same lack of intellectual rigor that made you write "the real killer is out there still"

It was a single remark, from one policeman and the insinuation that it set the course for the entire investigation is disproved by the subsequent actions of the police, that did, in fact, target Thais during the investigation.

In short, using that comment as evidence of a cover-up is clutching at straws.

"But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody."

Well, you got half of it right, I believe preponderance of the evidence presented at the trial is what is going to determine guilt or not.

"And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth."

The evidence against the suspects is going to be presented during the trial, you don't want to see the evidence before deciding what the truth is should be. That's the basis of dogma, not truth.

You believe what you want to believe. I do not believe the police investigation on this one. So the debate goes on.

The truth is still out there. As the puzzle do not fit. How do you know the two did it? If you are not positively sure the did it, then the real killer must be pursued without haste.

Why wait till the trial and find these two are not the ones and then try to find the killers one year after. Only a fool would do that. The chances of the trail getting colder world be higher. Unless that is the idea of justice.

[loonodingle]

You can't help but feel that the UK Government only jumped when they had a petition. They then miss lead us or had the door shut in their face when the officers arrived. They then proceeded to have a cover up on their Findings. Only for all to be revealed in a letter to Reprieve. They now don't want to do anymore. Just another dead person to them. I really don't think they care a less. They can go digging up land in Portugal years on and spend a fortune on looking for madeline but in this case they have resorted to a few days in the sun. Kicka bit of sand. Bamboozled by the Thai Poleee. Then come with their tail between their legs. Spun a story to the families and then got caught out.

[thailandchilli]

It's more than likely the rtp is spinning the story. Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this, and then found the two Burmese as suspect. And was the DNA testing done by a forensic team? Or someone other than the police force.

One just don't make such a bold statement about the murder without even completing investigation. You are right too say that I have no proof and it's just pure speculation. Just as much speculation as you think the police have the right person. And that the investigation was done properly. Yea, the problem is that most people know the investigation was not done properly and that the real killer is out there still. But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody. And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth. Because that is the idea of the Thai police, to have people forget about this horrific crime so they can pin it on the two in order to protect someone high up in the island. But people like me will never allow out to happen.

Don't tell me that that the big guys in the island have high moral integrity. With so much drugs going around these full moon parties and the population so little, the police some how can't stop the drug sales. Right...credibility and reason for shielding the big guys is obviously there. Stakes are high on the island.

And I thank you for helping out bring to attention on how important this case is. Beside, without your comments, I would not have any comic relief from this serious matter.

"Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this"

Yes, I can, it comes from the same lack of intellectual rigor that made you write "the real killer is out there still"

It was a single remark, from one policeman and the insinuation that it set the course for the entire investigation is disproved by the subsequent actions of the police, that did, in fact, target Thais during the investigation.

In short, using that comment as evidence of a cover-up is clutching at straws.

"But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody."

Well, you got half of it right, I believe preponderance of the evidence presented at the trial is what is going to determine guilt or not.

"And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth."

The evidence against the suspects is going to be presented during the trial, you don't want to see the evidence before deciding what the truth is should be. That's the basis of dogma, not truth.

No not just one remark in fact they've been saying it right up until the latter part of Nov

It was obvious from the method of the killing that it was done by Burmese,” the Thai policeman who led the investigation told me. “Because they are very brutal people. Local people are very friendly.”

Source: Richard Lloyd Parry, Koh Tao, Thailand for The Times, 22nd November 2014

On arriving the day after the murders, the senior police officer on the island assured us the culprit could not have been a Thai person. No Thai could possibly commit such a crime On arriving the day after the murders, the senior police officer on the island assured us the culprit could not have been a Thai person. No Thai could possibly commit such a crime http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29262496

[loonodingle]

It's more than likely the rtp is spinning the story. Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this, and then found the two Burmese as suspect. And was the DNA testing done by a forensic team? Or someone other than the police force.

One just don't make such a bold statement about the murder without even completing investigation. You are right too say that I have no proof and it's just pure speculation. Just as much speculation as you think the police have the right person. And that the investigation was done properly. Yea, the problem is that most people know the investigation was not done properly and that the real killer is out there still. But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody. And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth. Because that is the idea of the Thai police, to have people forget about this horrific crime so they can pin it on the two in order to protect someone high up in the island. But people like me will never allow out to happen.

Don't tell me that that the big guys in the island have high moral integrity. With so much drugs going around these full moon parties and the population so little, the police some how can't stop the drug sales. Right...credibility and reason for shielding the big guys is obviously there. Stakes are high on the island.

And I thank you for helping out bring to attention on how important this case is. Beside, without your comments, I would not have any comic relief from this serious matter.

"Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this"

Yes, I can, it comes from the same lack of intellectual rigor that made you write "the real killer is out there still"

It was a single remark, from one policeman and the insinuation that it set the course for the entire investigation is disproved by the subsequent actions of the police, that did, in fact, target Thais during the investigation.

In short, using that comment as evidence of a cover-up is clutching at straws.

"But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody."

Well, you got half of it right, I believe preponderance of the evidence presented at the trial is what is going to determine guilt or not.

"And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth."

The evidence against the suspects is going to be presented during the trial, you don't want to see the evidence before deciding what the truth is should be. That's the basis of dogma, not truth.

You believe what you want to believe. I do not believe the police investigation on this one. So the debate goes on.

The truth is still out there. As the puzzle do not fit. How do you know the two did it? If you are not positively sure the did it, then the real killer must be pursued without haste.

Why wait till the trial and find these two are not the ones and then try to find the killers one year after. Only a fool would do that. The chances of the trail getting colder world be higher. Unless that is the idea of justice.

Perhaps sending the RTP a message on Facebook or emailing them would be a good idea for you. Cause you will not get anywhere on here. The door is closed on this case for the RTP. Job done. Result predictable. This is also the stance of the UK Poleee. These 2 victims are just collateral damage in a never ending diplomatic game. No one really cares other than the families and friends and us keyboard warriors. And not all on here really giva hoot. They are just bored individuals who like trolling. Yes you know who you are.

[aimbc]

It's more than likely the rtp is spinning the story. Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this, and then found the two Burmese as suspect. And was the DNA testing done by a forensic team? Or someone other than the police force.

One just don't make such a bold statement about the murder without even completing investigation. You are right too say that I have no proof and it's just pure speculation. Just as much speculation as you think the police have the right person. And that the investigation was done properly. Yea, the problem is that most people know the investigation was not done properly and that the real killer is out there still. But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody. And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth. Because that is the idea of the Thai police, to have people forget about this horrific crime so they can pin it on the two in order to protect someone high up in the island. But people like me will never allow out to happen.

Don't tell me that that the big guys in the island have high moral integrity. With so much drugs going around these full moon parties and the population so little, the police some how can't stop the drug sales. Right...credibility and reason for shielding the big guys is obviously there. Stakes are high on the island.

And I thank you for helping out bring to attention on how important this case is. Beside, without your comments, I would not have any comic relief from this serious matter.

"Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this"

Yes, I can, it comes from the same lack of intellectual rigor that made you write "the real killer is out there still"

It was a single remark, from one policeman and the insinuation that it set the course for the entire investigation is disproved by the subsequent actions of the police, that did, in fact, target Thais during the investigation.

In short, using that comment as evidence of a cover-up is clutching at straws.

"But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody."

Well, you got half of it right, I believe preponderance of the evidence presented at the trial is what is going to determine guilt or not.

"And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth."

The evidence against the suspects is going to be presented during the trial, you don't want to see the evidence before deciding what the truth is should be. That's the basis of dogma, not truth.

You believe what you want to believe. I do not believe the police investigation on this one. So the debate goes on.

The truth is still out there. As the puzzle do not fit. How do you know the two did it? If you are not positively sure the did it, then the real killer must be pursued without haste.

Why wait till the trial and find these two are not the ones and then try to find the killers one year after. Only a fool would do that. The chances of the trail getting colder world be higher. Unless that is the idea of justice.

One more thing to add.

By the way, my evidence is that the two recanted their confession because it was forced out of them. And that the police have not responded to the human rights group even when they promise they would. You have to give this as much weight.

Edited January 17, 2015 by aimbc

[AleG]

"Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this"

Yes, I can, it comes from the same lack of intellectual rigor that made you write "the real killer is out there still"

It was a single remark, from one policeman and the insinuation that it set the course for the entire investigation is disproved by the subsequent actions of the police, that did, in fact, target Thais during the investigation.

In short, using that comment as evidence of a cover-up is clutching at straws.

"But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody."

Well, you got half of it right, I believe preponderance of the evidence presented at the trial is what is going to determine guilt or not.

"And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth."

The evidence against the suspects is going to be presented during the trial, you don't want to see the evidence before deciding what the truth is should be. That's the basis of dogma, not truth.

You believe what you want to believe. I do not believe the police investigation on this one. So the debate goes on.

The truth is still out there. As the puzzle do not fit. How do you know the two did it? If you are not positively sure the did it, then the real killer must be pursued without haste.

Why wait till the trial and find these two are not the ones and then try to find the killers one year after. Only a fool would do that. The chances of the trail getting colder world be higher. Unless that is the idea of justice.

One more thing to add.

By the way, my evidence is that the two recanted their confession because it was forced out of them. And that the police have not responded to the human rights group even when they promise they would. You have to give this as much weight.

Your evidence is that the accused have denied the crime. Well, that's convincing... not.

"How do you know the two did it? If you are not positively sure the did it, then the real killer must be pursued without haste."

There has not been any credible evidence pointing at anyone else, there is DNA evidence, possessions of the victims linked to the suspects and circumstantial evidence (like being close to the scene of the crime at the time of the crime) in the trial that evidence will be contested by the defense. If you are worried that would be a long time for now you should air your grievances with the defense team since it was them who requested a postponement.

[boomerangutang]

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things
Who.
When.
Where.
How.
And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.
It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.
As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not withhold this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

In trying to understand what an inqest does, I've compiled a few key points, which somewhat sincs with what LD mentioned above:

>>> It is usual for the coroner to hold an inquest when a death occurs within 24 hours of admission to hospital.
Re; KT murders: it's been 15 weeks (a lot longer than 24 hrs) and the general public won't expect to hear anything from the Brits until a year after they got the bodies, at the soonest

>>> An inquest is held in public.
....Presumably to inform interested citizens. Yet there are indications that as much as possible will be withheld from the public. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't be surprised if pressure from Thai authorities will squelch findings (to the public) as much as possible.

>>> One purpose of an inquest is to determine 'How the deceased came by his/her death.'
I've already known the inquest is not a trial, and they're not looking for culprits (though they should be). However, determining 'how the deceased came by his/her death' may also include putting forth a DNA trail. I'm going to assume Brits will dodge that also, so as not to piss off Thai authorities (by implicating those who really did the crime). Plus, Brit experts are unlikely to have any of the DNA typing of those who should be prime suspects - because Thai officials won't share crucial data with the Brits.

>>> “Interested persons” are permitted to ask questions.
That could be an opening for Loonodingle. Perhaps he/she could go as representing a quorum of interested parties of Brits (and other foreigners) who reside in Thailand. We're interested because we would like dangerous people found guilty of the crimes they committed - so they're taken off the streets, and aren't lurking around looking for new victims.

At least one of the lawyers for the defense should go to England and ask questions of the Coroner. Unfortunately, the actual inquest may not take place until after the trial. If so, that's tough luck for the defense, and good news for the prosecution.

Edited January 17, 2015 by boomerangutang

[boomerangutang]

There has not been any credible evidence pointing at anyone else...

It's hard to tell what's 'credible' when relying on Thai officials, as they've said so many twisted things thus far, re; the KT case. Whether 'credible' or 'circumstantial' (depending on the subjectivity of the observer), here's some evidence which points at others:

>>> Nomsod avoided talking to police for a week, even though he, his friends and family all know he was wanted for questioning.

>>> Nomsod didn't submit to DNA test for several weeks. He must have had a request (I know AleG won't agree, as expected). Because Nomsod (and his uncle Mon) were among the first prime suspects, it was incumbent for cops to have requested a sample for a DNA test. Just the fact that the cops said 'he refused' - indicates he was asked.

>>> Nomsod is believed to be the running man in the CCTV. The weird left arm is but one indication, besides the very thin body and haircut.

>>> Nomsod's alibi video looks contrived.

>>> Nomsod's g.f. couldn't find him in Bkk that weekend, even though she says they're always together.

>>> Nomsod changed his haircut, so as not to look like the person in the CCTV. For anyone who doesn't believe that, look at 'before and after' photos

>>> David was likely struck fatal cuts by a leftie, and Nomsod is a leftie. Mon may also be a leftie.

....there is evidence and potential evidence (if cops were doing their jobs) pointing at others, but we'll probably never know, because of the success of the cover-up.

[CRUNCHER]

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Please read Loonodingles post 1197 very carefully. He has set out the position exactly. I said much the same earlier in this thread before the 6th January. I did not add the fact that there will be no hearing in the event of a guilty verdict, but this is the case. In fact I have doubts that there will be a hearing in the event of a not guilty verdict.

The coroner will have no findings at this time (perhaps a post mortem report, but will not be made public until the hearing if there ever is one). To over simplify a bit, the coroner's sitting with a jury, role is to determine the identity of the deceased, time date and place of death and cause of death (accident, misadventure, suicide, murder etc). As Loonodingle said it is NOT the corners job to do a police investigation. It will difficult for the jury, who are responsible for the verdict, to come to a verdict unless all witnesses testify and are cross-examined. Since most are in Thailand and cannot be made to go to UK there will be some problems.

It seems a lot of people on this thread are under a lot of false impressions. As I said before some people need a reality check. You cannot expect a coroner to fail to comply with the law just because you want her to.

[CRUNCHER]

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things

Who.

When.

Where.

How.

And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.

It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.

As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not withhold this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

In trying to understand what an inqest does, I've compiled a few key points, which somewhat sincs with what LD mentioned above:

>>> It is usual for the coroner to hold an inquest when a death occurs within 24 hours of admission to hospital.

Re; KT murders: it's been 15 weeks (a lot longer than 24 hrs) and the general public won't expect to hear anything from the Brits until a year after they got the bodies, at the soonest

>>> An inquest is held in public.

....Presumably to inform interested citizens. Yet there are indications that as much as possible will be withheld from the public. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't be surprised if pressure from Thai authorities will squelch findings (to the public) as much as possible.

>>> One purpose of an inquest is to determine 'How the deceased came by his/her death.'

I've already known the inquest is not a trial, and they're not looking for culprits (though they should be). However, determining 'how the deceased came by his/her death' may also include putting forth a DNA trail. I'm going to assume Brits will dodge that also, so as not to piss off Thai authorities (by implicating those who really did the crime). Plus, Brit experts are unlikely to have any of the DNA typing of those who should be prime suspects - because Thai officials won't share crucial data with the Brits.

>>> “Interested persons” are permitted to ask questions.

That could be an opening for Loonodingle. Perhaps he/she could go as representing a quorum of interested parties of Brits (and other foreigners) who reside in Thailand. We're interested because we would like dangerous people found guilty of the crimes they committed - so they're taken off the streets, and aren't lurking around looking for new victims.

At least one of the lawyers for the defense should go to England and ask questions of the Coroner. Unfortunately, the actual inquest may not take place until after the trial. If so, that's tough luck for the defense, and good news for the prosecution.

As I have said before some people need a reality check. An inquest is a judicial hearing.

There are many cases where a coroner has to open an inquest. Death within 24 hours of entering hospital is just one. Violent and unnatural death is another. Death from illnesses related to mining is yet another.It does not mean there will be a hearing within 24 hours, although the inquest is usually opened within that time for identification and then adjourned.

Yes. If there is a hearing it will be in public and you can go along if you wish.

No country in the world would release important evidence such as DNA to another jurisdiction ahead of a criminal trial. It is not just Thailand.

Interested persons can ask questions if they have a locus standi . This does not include posters on Thai Visa. Usually the coroner does not answer questions, she asks them of witnesses.

A court that hears a murder case is higher up the judicial food chain than a coroners court. That is why the murder trial takes precedence. That is why the coroner's court cannot return a verdict which conflicts with the higher court. You really must get in touch with the realities of the judicial world.

In UK the coroner is not Quincy M E. She has to comply with law and procedures. She is not there to help with your vendetta against the headman and his clan, even if the headman deserves it. I do not know him and I pass no judgement on this point.

If you do not like what the coroner is doing why don't you write her a letter telling her your views. Don't try to get others to do it for you.

[loonodingle]

Some of us were under the impression that the British inquest was scheduled for Jan 6. Now we hear it was supposed to be a review, and even a review is not possible, because Thai authorities are not cooperating. It sounds like another way Thai officials can slow down and otherwise detract from an investigation. Why are Brit officials so hamstrung by Thais. Can't the Brits do anything independently? The bodies of the victims were shipped to Britain. Some of the basic things the Coroner is paid to look for (wounds, weapons used, drugs in blood) should have been done within days of receiving the bodies. DNA traces are more of a question, because it degrades quickly.

For the Coroner to withhold ALL their findings, seems to me to be a dereliction of the duties. They're not a private firm paid by victims' families. They're paid from public coffers. They're paid (and given offices and equipment) to serve the British public primarily, and secondarily to help people everywhere. Helping people, would include contributing to rid Ko Tao of murderers and rapists who are still, very likely, roaming free there. Hello Brit Coroner's Office: Do your jobs, and quit shirking your responsibilities while hiding behind the soiled skirt of legalese liquid bullcrap.

Unfortunately you haven't a clue about the purpose of a coroner it seems. Firstly they are not having a criminal trial to decide who committed the crime. They decide 4 things

Who.

When.

Where.

How.

And then make a judgement. They are not their to run a trial in Thailand.

It is normal procedure to hold case reviews before the final hearing and this is what they are doing. There is no hurry to complete on a specific date and as a trial is underway they will conclude when the trial is over.

As for findings at a postmortem this is dependant on the condition of the body. It may well of decomposed considerably. They will have been as thorough as possible. They do not withhold this report and the defense has requested it. They will not be posting it in full or exerts on Thai Visa.

Perhaps you expect to much from them or perhaps nieve to what their purpose is. Whatever it is you are incorrect in you accusations.

In trying to understand what an inqest does, I've compiled a few key points, which somewhat sincs with what LD mentioned above:

>>> It is usual for the coroner to hold an inquest when a death occurs within 24 hours of admission to hospital.

Re; KT murders: it's been 15 weeks (a lot longer than 24 hrs) and the general public won't expect to hear anything from the Brits until a year after they got the bodies, at the soonest

>>> An inquest is held in public.

....Presumably to inform interested citizens. Yet there are indications that as much as possible will be withheld from the public. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't be surprised if pressure from Thai authorities will squelch findings (to the public) as much as possible.

>>> One purpose of an inquest is to determine 'How the deceased came by his/her death.'

I've already known the inquest is not a trial, and they're not looking for culprits (though they should be). However, determining 'how the deceased came by his/her death' may also include putting forth a DNA trail. I'm going to assume Brits will dodge that also, so as not to piss off Thai authorities (by implicating those who really did the crime). Plus, Brit experts are unlikely to have any of the DNA typing of those who should be prime suspects - because Thai officials won't share crucial data with the Brits.

>>> “Interested persons” are permitted to ask questions.

That could be an opening for Loonodingle. Perhaps he/she could go as representing a quorum of interested parties of Brits (and other foreigners) who reside in Thailand. We're interested because we would like dangerous people found guilty of the crimes they committed - so they're taken off the streets, and aren't lurking around looking for new victims.

At least one of the lawyers for the defense should go to England and ask questions of the Coroner. Unfortunately, the actual inquest may not take place until after the trial. If so, that's tough luck for the defense, and good news for the prosecution.

Sometimes you are so far off base with this. There is set procedures that are followed and neither I or you can change that.

There is certainly not a conspiracy to help the Thai Polee from the Norfolk Coroner.

1.>>> It is usual for the coroner to hold an inquest when a death occurs within 24 hours of admission to hospital.

Re; KT murders: it's been 15 weeks (a lot longer than 24 hrs) and the general public won't expect to hear anything from the Brits until a year after they got the bodies, at the soonest

The deaths occurred abroad and not in the jurisdiction of the UK coroner's. Any delays are solely linked to repatriation of the bodys. The Thai coroner has priority as the crimes are primarily a Thai based issue. The Coroner is following the exact same time format as is expected in a UK murder case. If there is a trial it is delayed until the verdict. This is what will happen in this case.

2.>>> An inquest is held in public.

....Presumably to inform interested citizens. Yet there are indications that as much as possible will be withheld from the public. I hope I'm wrong, but I won't be surprised if pressure from Thai authorities will squelch findings (to the public) as much as possible.

I fail to see the basis for your insinuations. it is breach of protocol to release any findings to the general public prior to the inquest. Thai or British murders.

This is the rules:

Who is a properly interested person?

The categories of properly interested persons are set out in the Coroners Rules 1984 (as amended). They include: - a parent, spouse, child, civil partner or partner and any personal representative of the deceased; - any beneficiary of a life insurance policy on the deceased; - any insurer having issued such a policy; - a representative from a Trade Union to whom the deceased belonged at the time of death (if the death arose in connection with the person's employment or was due to industrial disease); - anyone whose action or failure to act may, in the Coroner's view, have contributed to the death;- the Chief Officer of Police (who may only ask witnesses questions through a lawyer);- any person appointed as an inspector or a representative of an enforcing authority or a person appointed by a Government Department to attend the inquest; or - anyone else who the Coroner may decide also has a proper interest. The Coroner decides who will be given properly interested person status.

3.>>> One purpose of an inquest is to determine 'How the deceased came by his/her death.'

I've already known the inquest is not a trial, and they're not looking for culprits (though they should be). However, determining 'how the deceased came by his/her death' may also include putting forth a DNA trail. I'm going to assume Brits will dodge that also, so as not to piss off Thai authorities (by implicating those who really did the crime). Plus, Brit experts are unlikely to have any of the DNA typing of those who should be prime suspects - because Thai officials won't share crucial data with the Brits.

It is not in the remit of the coroner to do the work of the police even if you think they should be, Aim this towards the RTP and the UK police. I don't think the coroner will be dodging anything. Reprieve are representing the Thai Defence here in the UK. Zoe is the case worker. I can assure you they have done and are doing everything in their power inc lobbying the FCO. However they are being stonewalled IMHO by the ministers. Some further avenues are being explored this week. Unfortunately the family's are not cooperating with any requests.

4.>>> “Interested persons” are permitted to ask questions.

That could be an opening for Loonodingle. Perhaps he/she could go as representing a quorum of interested parties of Brits (and other foreigners) who reside in Thailand. We're interested because we would like dangerous people found guilty of the crimes they committed - so they're taken off the streets, and aren't lurking around looking for new victims.

At least one of the lawyers for the defense should go to England and ask questions of the Coroner. Unfortunately, the actual inquest may not take place until after the trial. If so, that's tough luck for the defense, and good news for the prosecution.

I have asked the coroner and he has provided general answers. This is the case Officer Mark. He cannot answer any specific questions linked to Hannah. Lawyers for the defence team are based in the UK and Reprieve are the UK liaison team. See ABOVE for further answers.

The coroners rulers are obtainable at this site.

http://www.coronerscourtssupportservice.org.uk/faq-s/

Have a read and you will see the facts and not have to guess the answers to your concerns. I know its frustrating, I am equally frustrated but as far as some conspiracy between the UK and Thai coroner that's groundless.

Edited January 17, 2015 by loonodingle

[loonodingle]

These 10 questions where sent to the FCO on the 24th October. Worth a read. And read between the lines to their responses.

Also bare in mind we do carry out investigations in other country's. Take madeleine Mccann

10 questions to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) and asked will there ever be justice for Hannah and David?

False reports that a friend was guilty, confused manhunts for multiple suspects, allegations of torture, withdrawn confessions, bizarre media conferences and an investigation that has taken twists and turns from day one. The Thai investigation into the brutal killings of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge and Jersey backpacker David Miller has been fast-moving, but rarely clear.

British police officers, including a Norfolk detective, are now in Thailand working with Thai police to find the truth.

We ask the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) - will there ever be justice for Hannah and David?

• What are the British officers working alongside the Royal Thai Police in Thailand focusing their investigations on?

The investigation is a matter for the Thai authorities. British police have travelled to Thailand to get a better understanding of the investigation and stand ready to offer any support if necessary. The scope of cooperation will be determined by the respective authorities.

• Does the FCO plan on sending further British experts to Thailand if the officers are not satisfied with their initial findings?

It would be inappropriate to speculate about the outcome of the deployment while it is ongoing.

• When did the British government first approach the Royal Thai Police about getting involved with the investigation? Or what was the catalyst for wanting to send British police?

At the Asia-Europe Meeting summit in Milan, the prime minister raised the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller with Thai prime minister Prayut Chan-o-cha. The two leaders agreed that it is important that whoever committed these murders was brought to justice in a fair and transparent way, and that British police experts should travel to Koh Tao to provide assistance.

• Does the FCO have concerns about the treatment of the two Burmese suspects?

We are concerned about the reports of allegations of mistreatment and expect the Thai authorities to address these thoroughly and transparently.

We have raised our concerns with the Thai authorities, including the need for the investigation and any future judicial proceedings to be carried out according to due process in a fair and transparent way.

As a matter of principle, the UK unreservedly condemns the use of torture and does not condone its use for any purpose.

• Does the FCO have specific concerns over the transparency of the case, in light of mixed reports over the suspects’ confessions?

The UK cannot interfere in Thailand’s judicial proceeding, but we encourage the Thai authorities to address these allegations thoroughly and transparently.

• Does the FCO think that information could have been better relayed to the British government and to the families of the victims?

We continue to provide support and assistance to Hannah and David’s family at this tragic time.

We do not comment on the detail of individual consular cases nor on the assistance that we have provided.

• What are the British government’s specific concerns over the Royal Thai Police dealings with media in Thailand?

The conduct of the investigation remains a matter for the Royal Thai Police and the Thai authorities.

• Is there concern that criticising the Thai police investigation could jeopardise the agreement for British police to be in Thailand offering support?

The UK has a good relationship with the Royal Thai Police. British experts arrived in Thailand on October 21. A detective chief inspector from the Metropolitan Police Service Homicide and Major Crime Command and a forensic operations co-ordinator from Forensic Services have been deployed and are in Thailand.

An experienced officer from Norfolk Police has also been deployed to support the UK team.

• How confident is the FCO that those responsible for the killings will be brought to justice?

We want to see the perpetrators of this crime brought to justice and we have asked the Thai authorities to keep our Embassy in Bangkok closely informed on their investigation.

The British government cannot interfere in Thailand’s judicial proceedings, just as other governments are unable to interfere in our own judicial processes.

That said, we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption and mistreatment of the suspects and it is very important that whoever committed these murders is brought to justice.

We call for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way, in line with international standards.

• Does the FCO believe the British involvement in the investigation will reassure those, including friends and family of Hannah, who have concerns about the investigation?

We continue to provide support and assistance to Hannah and David’s family at this tragic time. We do not comment on the detail of individual consular cases nor on the assistance we have provided.

[draftvader]

Off-topic post and replies about religion removed. The debate on here has been very good lately, please keep on track. Religious views are contentious and won't help this discussion. Thank you.

[boomerangutang]

• When did the British government first approach the Royal Thai Police about getting involved with the investigation? Or what was the catalyst for wanting to send British police?

At the Asia-Europe Meeting summit in Milan, the prime minister raised the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller with Thai prime minister Prayut Chan-o-cha. The two leaders agreed that it is important that whoever committed these murders was brought to justice in a fair and transparent way, and that British police experts should travel to Koh Tao to provide assistance.

....and the next day, when the Thai PM returned to Thailand, he changed that from 'provide assistance' ...to 'observers only.' In other words: no investigating, no interviews, no pursuing leads. And the Brit experts have tip-toed along. If not true, then let's hear something from the Brits. Thus far they've announced nothing except postponing of findings (if they have any). In a word: EVASIVE.

[thailandchilli]

• When did the British government first approach the Royal Thai Police about getting involved with the investigation? Or what was the catalyst for wanting to send British police?

At the Asia-Europe Meeting summit in Milan, the prime minister raised the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller with Thai prime minister Prayut Chan-o-cha. The two leaders agreed that it is important that whoever committed these murders was brought to justice in a fair and transparent way, and that British police experts should travel to Koh Tao to provide assistance.

....and the next day, when the Thai PM returned to Thailand, he changed that from 'provide assistance' ...to 'observers only.' In other words: no investigating, no interviews, no pursuing leads. And the Brit experts have tip-toed along. If not true, then let's hear something from the Brits. Thus far they've announced nothing except postponing of findings (if they have any). In a word: EVASIVE.

Perfect example of the 2 faces of Thainess by the dear leader, a lesson in tactics for his subordinates

Edited January 18, 2015 by thailandchilli

[boomerangutang]

The more I hear about the British Coroner (FCO), the more powerless she appears to be. If this keeps going, she'll be as involved as the woman who stamps a passport at a border crossing. Supposedly, FCO is charged with determining how the victims were killed (murder weapon, types of wounds, whether drugs involved, DNA evidence, etc.). Is the FCO doing that? Who hears about their findings and when?

If/when some more backpackers are murdered and/or raped at Ko Tao, will any of this be relevant?

[thailandchilli]

The more I hear about the British Coroner (FCO), the more powerless she appears to be. If this keeps going, she'll be as involved as the woman who stamps a passport at a border crossing. Supposedly, FCO is charged with determining how the victims were killed (murder weapon, types of wounds, whether drugs involved, DNA evidence, etc.). Is the FCO doing that? Who hears about their findings and when?

If/when some more backpackers are murdered and/or raped at Ko Tao, will any of this be relevant?

Here's a good real life example of the inquest as reported/published by the BBC on a young UK man found hanged in suspicious circumstances in a police cell in Bangkok. Witnesses were an important part of this, ie the friend who was with him in the lead up to the hanging. Following this we should expect the same sort of witness statements on Hannah's and Davids inquest http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cornwall-28807790

Edited January 18, 2015 by thailandchilli

[loonodingle]

The more I hear about the British Coroner (FCO), the more powerless she appears to be. If this keeps going, she'll be as involved as the woman who stamps a passport at a border crossing. Supposedly, FCO is charged with determining how the victims were killed (murder weapon, types of wounds, whether drugs involved, DNA evidence, etc.). Is the FCO doing that? Who hears about their findings and when?

If/when some more backpackers are murdered and/or raped at Ko Tao, will any of this be relevant?

Boomer the trouble is perhaps you are not Englit? ??... FCO is the Foreign and Common Wealth Office. Totally separate from the Norfolk Coroner.

A Coroner just rules on cause of death. Example... accidental... or... murder.. or natural death. It's a incorrect to think they in someway run a criminal trial or rule the Thailand Police or the Thailand court or Coroner. They don't.

[loonodingle]

By the way for the people who think I run up and down a motorway loosing the plot FYI there is no motorways in Norfolk. ?

also I don't mind putting a little effort in. If it helps in the slightest way the 2 goats avoid the death penalty. I guess it's called being part of the human race as opposed to sub human. We all must consider that friends or family could very be looking at what we write so some respect is needed as this just fills some guys time, propped up with a bottle in one hand and one finger typing with the other...lol.. you know who u r.

[boomerangutang]

The more I hear about the British Coroner (FCO), the more powerless she appears to be. If this keeps going, she'll be as involved as the woman who stamps a passport at a border crossing. Supposedly, FCO is charged with determining how the victims were killed (murder weapon, types of wounds, whether drugs involved, DNA evidence, etc.). Is the FCO doing that? Who hears about their findings and when?

If/when some more backpackers are murdered and/or raped at Ko Tao, will any of this be relevant?

Boomer the trouble is perhaps you are not Englit? ??... FCO is the Foreign and Common Wealth Office. Totally separate from the Norfolk Coroner.

A Coroner just rules on cause of death. Example... accidental... or... murder.. or natural death. It's a incorrect to think they in someway run a criminal trial or rule the Thailand Police or the Thailand court or Coroner. They don't.

Correct, am not Englit or English or Angrit (as they're known by Thais), though I resided in Herts for one very chilly year - as a schoolboy.

So is it like a checklist for the coroner? ...check box: A. for stab, B. for gunshot C. for drowning, ....etc.?

I've been saying all along, I don't expect the Coroner to conduct a trial. Yet just determining cause of death - can reveal other related aspects of the scenario. In other words, if a man is found with his head separated from his body, a coroner could say one word "decapitation" ...or he/she could elaborate, particularly if a bloody sword were found nearby. From what I'm gathering, the Coroner's Office seems bent on doing as little as possible in this case, along with many months of delays. It couldn't be because of pressure from top Thai officials do as little as possible, could it? One can say, "Oh no, the British coroner is not affected by politics" - but think again. This case is causing major annoyances for top Thai officials. They've invested a lot of political capital in getting a certain result (guilty verdicts for scapegoats). It's no stretch to picture Thai top officials putting pressure on Brit top officials to reveal as little as possible, which would <deleted> the (untenable) Thai scenario. Top Brit officials are likely talking with Coroner's Office. Everyone involved is dipping in to public coffers (paid by taxpayers). They're basically two government teams - who want to make the appearance of playing ball together.

The Thai cop who was mysteriously murdered a couple of months ago may have known something which higher-ups didn't want him to reveal.The Frenchman who died recently at Ko Tao may have been in a similar quagmire: knowing things about the KT case - which Thai authorities don't want revealed. Maybe I'm getting too out on a limb with those suppositions. Or maybe not. Who'll be next?

[AleG]

Correct, am not Englit or English or Angrit (as they're known by Thais), though I resided in Herts for one very chilly year - as a schoolboy.

So is it like a checklist for the coroner? ...check box: A. for stab, B. for gunshot C. for drowning, ....etc.?

I've been saying all along, I don't expect the Coroner to conduct a trial. Yet just determining cause of death - can reveal other related aspects of the scenario. In other words, if a man is found with his head separated from his body, a coroner could say one word "decapitation" ...or he/she could elaborate, particularly if a bloody sword were found nearby. From what I'm gathering, the Coroner's Office seems bent on doing as little as possible in this case, along with many months of delays. It couldn't be because of pressure from top Thai officials do as little as possible, could it? One can say, "Oh no, the British coroner is not affected by politics" - but think again. This case is causing major annoyances for top Thai officials. They've invested a lot of political capital in getting a certain result (guilty verdicts for scapegoats). It's no stretch to picture Thai top officials putting pressure on Brit top officials to reveal as little as possible, which would <deleted> the (untenable) Thai scenario. Top Brit officials are likely talking with Coroner's Office. Everyone involved is dipping in to public coffers (paid by taxpayers). They're basically two government teams - who want to make the appearance of playing ball together.

The Thai cop who was mysteriously murdered a couple of months ago may have known something which higher-ups didn't want him to reveal.The Frenchman who died recently at Ko Tao may have been in a similar quagmire: knowing things about the KT case - which Thai authorities don't want revealed. Maybe I'm getting too out on a limb with those suppositions. Or maybe not. Who'll be next?

Right, connect the dots, no matter if the dots are on different pages of different books or there are actually not dots at all.

The UK government is conspiring to hide the truth, a suicide turns into a murder to silence a witness and a completely unrelated case is thrown in for good measure.

"Conspiracy theories connect the dots of random events into meaningful patterns (patternicity), and infuse those patterns with intentional agency. Add to this the confirmation bias (the tendency to look for and find confirmatory evidence for what we already believe) and the hindsight bias (after the fact explanation for what you already know happened), and we have the foundation for conspiratorial cognition."

[JLCrab]

Who'll be next? Maybe it will be you. Maybe the headman has some second cousin's brother-in-law's uncle who can take care of that guy up in one of them Chiangs thinking if we can just shut that guy up who really knows what''s what maybe we can get away with this whole mess.

[balo]

There has not been any credible evidence pointing at anyone else...

It's hard to tell what's 'credible' when relying on Thai officials, as they've said so many twisted things thus far, re; the KT case. Whether 'credible' or 'circumstantial' (depending on the subjectivity of the observer), here's some evidence which points at others:

>>> Nomsod avoided talking to police for a week, even though he, his friends and family all know he was wanted for questioning.

>>> Nomsod didn't submit to DNA test for several weeks. He must have had a request (I know AleG won't agree, as expected). Because Nomsod (and his uncle Mon) were among the first prime suspects, it was incumbent for cops to have requested a sample for a DNA test. Just the fact that the cops said 'he refused' - indicates he was asked.

>>> Nomsod is believed to be the running man in the CCTV. The weird left arm is but one indication, besides the very thin body and haircut.

>>> Nomsod's alibi video looks contrived.

>>> Nomsod's g.f. couldn't find him in Bkk that weekend, even though she says they're always together.

>>> Nomsod changed his haircut, so as not to look like the person in the CCTV. For anyone who doesn't believe that, look at 'before and after' photos

>>> David was likely struck fatal cuts by a leftie, and Nomsod is a leftie. Mon may also be a leftie.

....there is evidence and potential evidence (if cops were doing their jobs) pointing at others, but we'll probably never know, because of the success of the cover-up.

This is just gossip and you know it , again you're just continue that Nomsod lead that will not lead you anywhere,

>>> Nomsod is believed to be the running man in the CCTV. The weird left arm is but one indication, besides the very thin body and haircut.

Speculation

>>> Nomsod's alibi video looks contrived.

Speculation

>>> Nomsod's g.f. couldn't find him in Bkk that weekend, even though she says they're always together.

Speculation , give me a news link ?

>>> Nomsod changed his haircut, so as not to look like the person in the CCTV. For anyone who doesn't believe that, look at 'before and after' photos

I think anyone needs a hair cut once in a while . Speculation.

[Mooner]

>>> Nomsod's g.f. couldn't find him in Bkk that weekend, even though she says they're always together.

Speculation , give me a news link ?

It was from her Facebook post i believe. I think its somewhere on the conspiracy page on FB. Also his cousin claimed he was drinking with her in BKK while she was posting pics of herself and her bf from Pattaya.

The posts were caught by different people who took the screen shots and posted them not by any news channels.

[balo]

>>> Nomsod's g.f. couldn't find him in Bkk that weekend, even though she says they're always together.

Speculation , give me a news link ?

It was from her Facebook post i believe. I think its somewhere on the conspiracy page on FB. Also his cousin claimed he was drinking with her in BKK while she was posting pics of herself and her bf from Pattaya.

The posts were caught by different people who took the screen shots and posted them not by any news channels.

Then it should be easy to find her fb page and lets have a look at the screen shots. Because its not necessary for Nomsod to hide anything away from his gf. Unless he's cheating on her.

[aimbc]

"Can you explain than how the police can make a statement that no Thai could have done this"

Yes, I can, it comes from the same lack of intellectual rigor that made you write "the real killer is out there still"

It was a single remark, from one policeman and the insinuation that it set the course for the entire investigation is disproved by the subsequent actions of the police, that did, in fact, target Thais during the investigation.

In short, using that comment as evidence of a cover-up is clutching at straws.

"But you being the logical person, believe that the rtp have the right person in custody."

Well, you got half of it right, I believe preponderance of the evidence presented at the trial is what is going to determine guilt or not.

"And no I am not going to wait till the trial to to find out the truth."

The evidence against the suspects is going to be presented during the trial, you don't want to see the evidence before deciding what the truth is should be. That's the basis of dogma, not truth.

You believe what you want to believe. I do not believe the police investigation on this one. So the debate goes on.

The truth is still out there. As the puzzle do not fit. How do you know the two did it? If you are not positively sure the did it, then the real killer must be pursued without haste.

Why wait till the trial and find these two are not the ones and then try to find the killers one year after. Only a fool would do that. The chances of the trail getting colder world be higher. Unless that is the idea of justice.

One more thing to add.

By the way, my evidence is that the two recanted their confession because it was forced out of them. And that the police have not responded to the human rights group even when they promise they would. You have to give this as much weight.

Your evidence is that the accused have denied the crime. Well, that's convincing... not.

"How do you know the two did it? If you are not positively sure the did it, then the real killer must be pursued without haste."

There has not been any credible evidence pointing at anyone else, there is DNA evidence, possessions of the victims linked to the suspects and circumstantial evidence (like being close to the scene of the crime at the time of the crime) in the trial that evidence will be contested by the defense. If you are worried that would be a long time for now you should air your grievances with the defense team since it was them who requested a postponement.

Now I see it clearly where you stand and you base everything on rtp words. Again you are set already in your mind who is guilty. Without considering any thing else not coming from rtp. Yes, I will stand behind these two before I will ever stand behind most of these corrupt RTP. You have your allegiance to rtp script. I am not that that easily convince that rtp have the investigation correct. Given the record of corruption in the police force, your logic is to believe the cops more than the two. Credibility. I don't think you know that word.

Yes the trial is necessary. But you like using your invalidated rtp report to rebut people's statement and then ask them to provide proof. While you want people to provide proof, it's only fair that you provide proof that the rtp report is truthful.

But the big question is about how the investigation was handled. It was far from a proper investigation. To me the trial is designed to waste even more time for the murderer to walk free. Garbage in garbage out. What a shame that people would stoop so low to protect these killers. They will strike again and it will hurt yet another family.

[JLCrab]

... but, for now, the real killers are on hiatus awaiting the all-clear sign from the Big Boss before it's OK to strike again.