Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[IslandLover]

rockingrobin, on 07 Feb 2015 - 14:29, said:rockingrobin, on 07 Feb 2015 - 14:29, said:

In reading a few of the posts above

The beach party, as it actually been established this did indeed occur, if so there would have been a fair bit of noise and people . Possibly confirming western songs, however casting doubt on the witness claiming to hear Arakenese accent, since it is reasonable to say the beach party would last beyond 1am.

Continuing with the time, Muang Muang left at 1am , did he return, David was seen on cctv at 2am

As far as the allegation that it would require a large number of people to alter the dna , this is incorrect, and woulld be possible with very few, e.g if the donors of the semen is already Known, then all that is required is to withold there sample and at some future date swap it with somebody else, (note Muang Muang dna on cigarette, but I am still working on this)

The time of death could not be established because the body had been frozen,

However what we Know , David seen at 2am, Murder discovered at 6:30 , or earlier if you believe Mon,

High tide in Samuii I understand was 2:19, therefore would be similar for Khao Tao, but what I dont know is if the high tide in september completely encompasses the beach , maybe somebody else can clarify this

There is a photo where the forensics are examining a few bottles, Pancake man

The beach party has been mentioned in several press reports (mostly the western press). This cannot be confirmed though, due to lack of proper witness accounts.

Interesting question about the tide. One of the crime scene photos shows Hannah's left foot and lower leg partially covered with sand, as if the sea had come up and gone over it, so this may have occurred after death. However, it was also windy that night, so it may just be the action of the waves.

Sunrise is around 6.:30 am, I guess.

Hannah and David were last recorded on CCTV between 2:00 am and 3:00 am with groups of people, although there is some footage of David alone, but not Hannah. We need to bear in mind that this is only the footage that has been released to the press and we have no idea what other footage the RTP is in possession of.

Edited February 7, 2015 by IslandLover

[greenchair]

rockingrobin, on 07 Feb 2015 - 14:29, said:

In reading a few of the posts above

The beach party, as it actually been established this did indeed occur, if so there would have been a fair bit of noise and people . Possibly confirming western songs, however casting doubt on the witness claiming to hear Arakenese accent, since it is reasonable to say the beach party would last beyond 1am.

Continuing with the time, Muang Muang left at 1am , did he return, David was seen on cctv at 2am

As far as the allegation that it would require a large number of people to alter the dna , this is incorrect, and woulld be possible with very few, e.g if the donors of the semen is already Known, then all that is required is to withold there sample and at some future date swap it with somebody else, (note Muang Muang dna on cigarette, but I am still working on this)

The time of death could not be established because the body had been frozen,

However what we Know , David seen at 2am, Murder discovered at 6:30 , or earlier if you believe Mon,

High tide in Samuii I understand was 2:19, therefore would be similar for Khao Tao, but what I dont know is if the high tide in september completely encompasses the beach , maybe somebody else can clarify this

There is a photo where the forensics are examining a few bottles, Pancake man

The beach party has been mentioned in several press reports (mostly the western press). This cannot be confirmed though, due to lack of proper witness accounts.

Interesting question about the tide. One of the crime scene photos shows Hannah's left foot and lower leg partially covered with sand, as if the sea had come up and gone over it, so this may have occurred after death. However, it was also windy that night, so it may be just be the action of the waves.

Sunrise is around 6.:30 am, I guess.

Hannah and David were last recorded on CCTV between 2:00 am and 3:00 am with groups of people, although there is some footage of David alone, but not Hannah. We need to bear in mind that this is only the footage that has been released to the press and we have no idea what other footage the RTP is in possession of.

I have been looking for a photo of Hannah at 3 am. I only have one at 2am. Can you help me? ??

[Scott]

A post suggesting members are involved in a conspiracy has been removed. Please address the topic and not other members, especially with accusatory posts.

[thailandchilli]

I hope posts will also be removed of members accusing others of a conspiracy theory also...........

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 07 Feb 2015 - 14:46, said:

rockingrobin, on 07 Feb 2015 - 14:29, said:

In reading a few of the posts above

The beach party, as it actually been established this did indeed occur, if so there would have been a fair bit of noise and people . Possibly confirming western songs, however casting doubt on the witness claiming to hear Arakenese accent, since it is reasonable to say the beach party would last beyond 1am.

Continuing with the time, Muang Muang left at 1am , did he return, David was seen on cctv at 2am

As far as the allegation that it would require a large number of people to alter the dna , this is incorrect, and woulld be possible with very few, e.g if the donors of the semen is already Known, then all that is required is to withold there sample and at some future date swap it with somebody else, (note Muang Muang dna on cigarette, but I am still working on this)

The time of death could not be established because the body had been frozen,

However what we Know , David seen at 2am, Murder discovered at 6:30 , or earlier if you believe Mon,

High tide in Samuii I understand was 2:19, therefore would be similar for Khao Tao, but what I dont know is if the high tide in september completely encompasses the beach , maybe somebody else can clarify this

There is a photo where the forensics are examining a few bottles, Pancake man

On the tide reach point then no it did not cover the whole beach as the photo below suggests. Yes I also believe there was some form of party going on and that something happened to alter the friendly dynamics, I doubt the B2 would be the type to carry around condoms and this reinforces my view there was at the minimum one other person involved when the crime took place.

I read something interesting yesterday on the Crimesontheblog website about the condom. It claimed that Hannah's DNA was extracted from a drop of blood found on the condom. This could explain why nothing more has been said about it as presumably it was just laying around at the crime scene rather than being used in the actual crime.

https://crimesontheblog.wordpress.com/category/koh-tao-sept-2014/the-players-more/crime-scene/

Condom found

• initially said to contain victim HWs DNA on the outside

• no other DNA (inside)

• re-enactment: it is considered unrelated to the crime

• only blood drop of victim HW was found on the condom

[IslandLover]

greenchair, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:29, said:

IslandLover, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:22, said:

rockingrobin, on 07 Feb 2015 - 14:29, said:

rockingrobin, on 07 Feb 2015 - 14:29, said:

In reading a few of the posts above

The beach party, as it actually been established this did indeed occur, if so there would have been a fair bit of noise and people . Possibly confirming western songs, however casting doubt on the witness claiming to hear Arakenese accent, since it is reasonable to say the beach party would last beyond 1am.

Continuing with the time, Muang Muang left at 1am , did he return, David was seen on cctv at 2am

As far as the allegation that it would require a large number of people to alter the dna , this is incorrect, and woulld be possible with very few, e.g if the donors of the semen is already Known, then all that is required is to withold there sample and at some future date swap it with somebody else, (note Muang Muang dna on cigarette, but I am still working on this)

The time of death could not be established because the body had been frozen,

However what we Know , David seen at 2am, Murder discovered at 6:30 , or earlier if you believe Mon,

High tide in Samuii I understand was 2:19, therefore would be similar for Khao Tao, but what I dont know is if the high tide in september completely encompasses the beach , maybe somebody else can clarify this

There is a photo where the forensics are examining a few bottles, Pancake man

The beach party has been mentioned in several press reports (mostly the western press). This cannot be confirmed though, due to lack of proper witness accounts.

Interesting question about the tide. One of the crime scene photos shows Hannah's left foot and lower leg partially covered with sand, as if the sea had come up and gone over it, so this may have occurred after death. However, it was also windy that night, so it may be just be the action of the waves.

Sunrise is around 6.:30 am, I guess.

Hannah and David were last recorded on CCTV between 2:00 am and 3:00 am with groups of people, although there is some footage of David alone, but not Hannah. We need to bear in mind that this is only the footage that has been released to the press and we have no idea what other footage the RTP is in possession of.

I have been looking for a photo of Hannah at 3 am. I only have one at 2am. Can you help me?

Sorry GC, I was not clear. Hannah is last seen at around 2:00 am and David at around 3:00 am.

[IslandLover]

thailandchilli, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:36, said:

I hope posts will also be removed of members accusing others of a conspiracy theory also...........

And the downright abuse we have to suffer from certain posters. Claiming we are all "morons" springs to mind.

[IslandLover]

AGareth2, on 07 Feb 2015 - 08:29, said:

have we a time of death///?

No, it was claimed that forensics couldn't establish a time of death because the bodies had been frozen before autopsy. We can only assume it took place between 4:00 am and 6:00 am judging by all the to-ing and fro-íng from that beach (CCTV footage of running man etc.).

[loonodingle]

I hope posts will also be removed of members accusing others of a conspiracy theory also...........

Don't hold your breath. However now you know who is the MOD send him/her links to each one and see if the same style of censorship is applied.

[German Viking]

I believe this is an effort to have people watching this circus lose interest.

Imagine what would happen if they disappeared. No trial?.... they'd be free and the police wouldn't lose face at trial.... then other than a diplomatic row, things would eventually be forgotten?

Just a cynical thought.

I guess Mr. Holmes you cloud be very right, this makes sence to me, maybe there is a anonymous spender behind this 2 mill. to give the burmese guys the opportunity to run away.

This is the only way, that nobody would loosing face.

[greenchair]

greenchair, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:29, said:

IslandLover, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:22, said:

rockingrobin, on 07 Feb 2015 - 14:29, said:

rockingrobin, on 07 Feb 2015 - 14:29, said:

In reading a few of the posts above

The beach party, as it actually been established this did indeed occur, if so there would have been a fair bit of noise and people . Possibly confirming western songs, however casting doubt on the witness claiming to hear Arakenese accent, since it is reasonable to say the beach party would last beyond 1am.

Continuing with the time, Muang Muang left at 1am , did he return, David was seen on cctv at 2am

As far as the allegation that it would require a large number of people to alter the dna , this is incorrect, and woulld be possible with very few, e.g if the donors of the semen is already Known, then all that is required is to withold there sample and at some future date swap it with somebody else, (note Muang Muang dna on cigarette, but I am still working on this)

The time of death could not be established because the body had been frozen,

However what we Know , David seen at 2am, Murder discovered at 6:30 , or earlier if you believe Mon,

High tide in Samuii I understand was 2:19, therefore would be similar for Khao Tao, but what I dont know is if the high tide in september completely encompasses the beach , maybe somebody else can clarify this

There is a photo where the forensics are examining a few bottles, Pancake man

The beach party has been mentioned in several press reports (mostly the western press). This cannot be confirmed though, due to lack of proper witness accounts.

Interesting question about the tide. One of the crime scene photos shows Hannah's left foot and lower leg partially covered with sand, as if the sea had come up and gone over it, so this may have occurred after death. However, it was also windy that night, so it may be just be the action of the waves.

Sunrise is around 6.:30 am, I guess.

Hannah and David were last recorded on CCTV between 2:00 am and 3:00 am with groups of people, although there is some footage of David alone, but not Hannah. We need to bear in mind that this is only the footage that has been released to the press and we have no idea what other footage the RTP is in possession of.

I have been looking for a photo of Hannah at 3 am. I only have one at 2am. Can you help me?

Sorry GC, I was not clear. Hannah is last seen at around 2:00 am and David at around 3:00 am.

Well, by chance I also only have a pic of David at 2am.

Do you have a pic of him at 3 am

[loonodingle]

Why don't you all post the last known pictures you have.

[boomerangutang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

AGareth2, on 07 Feb 2015 - 08:29, said:

have we a time of death///?

No, it was claimed that forensics couldn't establish a time of death because the bodies had been frozen before autopsy. We can only assume it took place between 4:00 am and 6:00 am judging by all the to-ing and fro-íng from that beach (CCTV footage of running man etc.).

Very likely crime took place in the half hour before 5 am. Reason: running man in white shorts at just a minute or so before 5 am (which includes mystery farang with beard, and his Asian woman friend). There are a few other clues which point at that time slot, but the 'running man' is probably the most revealing.

In the first days of the investigation, there was mention of an earring (shown in CCTV) worn by 'running man'. I think it was left ear. Do Mon or Nomsod wear earring(s)? If so, neither would be sporting one now, (same reason as Nomsod got his sideburns re-positioned to face towards his ears). But an ear pierced by a small hole can't be covered up from inspection - except perhaps if you're an island VIP untouchable.

[boomerangutang]

Mine was one of the posts deleted yesterday. Here is the part (which should be non-controversial) which I'd like to re-post:

Ms Porntip is arguably Thailand's best forensic scientist. She's also known as being able to stand up against (and counter) Thai officials who sometimes want investigations to go according to their dictates. If those few folks on T.Visa who unwaveringly side with Thai officialdom were interested in an adept crime investigation, they would not be so spooked by the option of Ms Porntip being involved in the investigation. There hasn't been an an official request (or assignment) for her services. In such an important case, one would think Thai officialdom would want to assign the best person for the job. Would she be allowed to volunteer her services? I don't know. I, for one, would like to see her actively involved. It's clear why Thai officialdom and their few supporters don't want that - similar to the reasons they don't want Brit experts involved.

For those who say foreign experts should never be involved with another country's affairs. Here's a nutshell of a true story which disproves that: A group of British and Hong Kong climbers went climbing in Indonesia. They got lost. Indonesian authorities asked Brit experts to assist, while openly admitting they didn't have the equipment or expertise to do a mountain rescue. Brits took over, climbers were rescued, Indonesians learned some things about rescue operations, and all wound up fine.

[AGareth2]

time of death is so important

Why was this not identified?

[boomerangutang]

time of death is so important

Why was this not identified?

Identified by whom? If you want it specified by RTP, then you have to pick which police force - the initial group (who were sincerely trying to solve the crime) or the replacement team - which is constructing the frame-up, while shielding the Headman's people. The 2nd group is also being very trepidatious about announcing anything, because the first team made several glaring bloopers. But most of all, the 2nd team doesn't want to reveal anything which may implicate any of the Headman's people, so that's why they're playing their cards close to their chest.

[IslandLover]

greenchair, on 08 Feb 2015 - 00:40, said:greenchair, on 08 Feb 2015 - 00:40, said:

IslandLover, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:44, said:IslandLover, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:44, said:

Sorry GC, I was not clear. Hannah is last seen at around 2:00 am and David at around 3:00 am.

Well, by chance I also only have a pic of David at 2am.

Do you have a pic of him at 3 am

It's all available on CCTV footage. I can no longer remember the exact times. Sky News had some pretty good videos. Try Google and YouTube.

[IslandLover]

IslandLover, on 08 Feb 2015 - 03:28, said:

greenchair, on 08 Feb 2015 - 00:40, said:greenchair, on 08 Feb 2015 - 00:40, said:greenchair, on 08 Feb 2015 - 00:40, said:

IslandLover, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:44, said:IslandLover, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:44, said:IslandLover, on 07 Feb 2015 - 15:44, said:

Sorry GC, I was not clear. Hannah is last seen at around 2:00 am and David at around 3:00 am.

Well, by chance I also only have a pic of David at 2am.

Do you have a pic of him at 3 am

It's all available on CCTV footage. I can no longer remember the exact times. Sky News had some pretty good videos. Try Google and YouTube.

Sorry, the last known CCTV footage of David Miller that I can find which has been released to the press shows a timestamp of 1:57 am. So, if the murders took place between 4:30 am and 5:00 am, what were Hannah and David doing in the intervening hours? I suppose we will have to wait for the trial to find out - if we ever do.

[AleG]

Mine was one of the posts deleted yesterday. Here is the part (which should be non-controversial) which I'd like to re-post:

Ms Porntip is arguably Thailand's best forensic scientist. She's also known as being able to stand up against (and counter) Thai officials who sometimes want investigations to go according to their dictates. If those few folks on T.Visa who unwaveringly side with Thai officialdom were interested in an adept crime investigation, they would not be so spooked by the option of Ms Porntip being involved in the investigation. There hasn't been an an official request (or assignment) for her services. In such an important case, one would think Thai officialdom would want to assign the best person for the job. Would she be allowed to volunteer her services? I don't know. I, for one, would like to see her actively involved. It's clear why Thai officialdom and their few supporters don't want that - similar to the reasons they don't want Brit experts involved.

For those who say foreign experts should never be involved with another country's affairs. Here's a nutshell of a true story which disproves that: A group of British and Hong Kong climbers went climbing in Indonesia. They got lost. Indonesian authorities asked Brit experts to assist, while openly admitting they didn't have the equipment or expertise to do a mountain rescue. Brits took over, climbers were rescued, Indonesians learned some things about rescue operations, and all wound up fine.

Nobody is spooked of Dr, Porntip, or of independent DNA testing; as usual you have to retreat into your make believe world to hold on to your beliefs.

As for your anecdote, it is irrelevant because it was not a criminal investigation.

[boomerangutang]

Mine was one of the posts deleted yesterday. Here is the part (which should be non-controversial) which I'd like to re-post:

Ms Porntip is arguably Thailand's best forensic scientist. She's also known as being able to stand up against (and counter) Thai officials who sometimes want investigations to go according to their dictates. If those few folks on T.Visa who unwaveringly side with Thai officialdom were interested in an adept crime investigation, they would not be so spooked by the option of Ms Porntip being involved in the investigation. There hasn't been an an official request (or assignment) for her services. In such an important case, one would think Thai officialdom would want to assign the best person for the job. Would she be allowed to volunteer her services? I don't know. I, for one, would like to see her actively involved. It's clear why Thai officialdom and their few supporters don't want that - similar to the reasons they don't want Brit experts involved.

For those who say foreign experts should never be involved with another country's affairs. Here's a nutshell of a true story which disproves that: A group of British and Hong Kong climbers went climbing in Indonesia. They got lost. Indonesian authorities asked Brit experts to assist, while openly admitting they didn't have the equipment or expertise to do a mountain rescue. Brits took over, climbers were rescued, Indonesians learned some things about rescue operations, and all wound up fine.

Nobody is spooked of Dr, Porntip, or of independent DNA testing; as usual you have to retreat into your make believe world to hold on to your beliefs.

As for your anecdote, it is irrelevant because it was not a criminal investigation.

Wrong. Everything the replacement police team does and says - shows they don't want thorough or independent investigation of the DNA trail. They didn't even give their 2-day visiting 'observers' (the Brits) Nomsod's DNA. ....or anyone else's DNA. The prospect of Ms Porntip coming on to the scene in an official capacity, and spearheading the DNA trail, is anathema to the cops and to the Headman's people, for obvious reasons. She would be blocked every step of the way, similar to how the Brits were blocked. However, Ms Porntip wouldn't just grin and say 'ok.' She's a tiger. The Brits came away looking like spotted dicks.

[loonodingle]

Mine was one of the posts deleted yesterday. Here is the part (which should be non-controversial) which I'd like to re-post:

Ms Porntip is arguably Thailand's best forensic scientist. She's also known as being able to stand up against (and counter) Thai officials who sometimes want investigations to go according to their dictates. If those few folks on T.Visa who unwaveringly side with Thai officialdom were interested in an adept crime investigation, they would not be so spooked by the option of Ms Porntip being involved in the investigation. There hasn't been an an official request (or assignment) for her services. In such an important case, one would think Thai officialdom would want to assign the best person for the job. Would she be allowed to volunteer her services? I don't know. I, for one, would like to see her actively involved. It's clear why Thai officialdom and their few supporters don't want that - similar to the reasons they don't want Brit experts involved.

For those who say foreign experts should never be involved with another country's affairs. Here's a nutshell of a true story which disproves that: A group of British and Hong Kong climbers went climbing in Indonesia. They got lost. Indonesian authorities asked Brit experts to assist, while openly admitting they didn't have the equipment or expertise to do a mountain rescue. Brits took over, climbers were rescued, Indonesians learned some things about rescue operations, and all wound up fine.

Nobody is spooked of Dr, Porntip, or of independent DNA testing; as usual you have to retreat into your make believe world to hold on to your beliefs.

As for your anecdote, it is irrelevant because it was not a criminal investigation.

Wrong. Everything the replacement police team does and says - shows they don't want thorough or independent investigation of the DNA trail. They didn't even give their 2-day visiting 'observers' (the Brits) Nomsod's DNA. ....or anyone else's DNA. The prospect of Ms Porntip coming on to the scene in an official capacity, and spearheading the DNA trail, is anathema to the cops and to the Headman's people, for obvious reasons. She would be blocked every step of the way, similar to how the Brits were blocked. However, Ms Porntip wouldn't just grin and say 'ok.' She's a tiger. The Brits came away looking like spotted dicks.

Here! Here!

Absolutely agree.

If you have nothing to hide why hide it.

Why reject the verification that was supposed to take place. That was not actioned by the Prime Minister but by Somyot. and I quote:

In a meeting initiated by the Thai side with Somyot earlier this week, the United Kingdom and Myanmar ambassadors said they wanted their representatives involved in the investigation.

"No matter what laws are taken into account, be it Britain's laws or those of other countries, foreign investigators cannot take part in cases that take place in Thailand as this would violate the Kingdom's sovereignty," the police chief insisted.

Source is: http://www.asianewsnet.net/Foreign-investigators-barred-from-Thailand-police--66057.html

[loonodingle]

One thing who says one of them didn't have blond hair??

I found this

[greenchair]

Not on the night of the murder.

He may well have had blonde hair and recently dyed it black. But on that night, it was black.

[loonodingle]

Not on the night of the murder.

He may well have had blonde hair and recently dyed it black. But on that night, it was black. received_10153014864933728.jpeg

So that dispels that myth he had blonde hair hey!!!..

Nice one GC

[thailandchilli]

Not on the night of the murder.

He may well have had blonde hair and recently dyed it black. But on that night, it was black. received_10153014864933728.jpeg

So that dispels that myth he had blonde hair hey!!!..

Nice one GC

Yes another misleading report by the RTP in which they were attempting to link him to the murders.

He had recently dyed his hair black when originally his hair was dyed blond. Some blond strands of human hair were found at the scene and were kept as evidence. Police are awaiting DNA test results to confirm their case. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/three-migrant-workers-confess-rape-murder-british-tourists

[greenchair]

?????

[berybert]

One thing who says one of them didn't have blond hair??

I found this

10922829_1022699321080211_2788108532618864845_n.jpg

Is blond brown ?

[loonodingle]

One thing who says one of them didn't have blond hair??

I found this

10922829_1022699321080211_2788108532618864845_n.jpg

Is blond brown ?

Not sure how much you know about Thailand but anything that's not black is blonde......lol.....

My wife had her hair dyed blonde a few months ago 10,000 bahts worth of hair and face treatment. She was so happy with her blond hair...... I hated my ginger wifes hair.....They cant get blonde hair its to black..

A few weeks weeks of me taking the P and I got my Black haired wife back...

[berybert]

This is what I would consider blonde.

Scruffy blonde if you are a trend setter.

Edited February 8, 2015 by berybert

[greenchair]

Yes, berry. And I consider this blonde to.