Failed expats and the lies they tell others and themselves as to why ...

[CMBob]

It is not uncommon in my opinion for people who are having problems (relationship, alcohol, depression, inability to maintain friends or family relationships, or whatever) to blame the location for those problems rather than occasionally looking in the mirror to see the source; as such, they move to a new location where they can start over. And, often, lo and behold, the same problems crop up some time later. Sometimes the reaction is to move again (heck, the real problem must be this place and certainly couldn't be me!) whereas some of these people actually start to realize that maybe the mirror is right (and actually do something about it or, on the extreme negative side, jump off condo buildings).

I lived in a small tourist town in Midwest USA to which a lot of people wanted to move. Their experience/memories of the town were usually of happy times in the summer when they vacationed there (they didn't know about the long and somewhat depressing winters there nor had any experience of living "real life" throughout the year there). What we locals observed was that some (a number which seemed higher than what we thought was "normal") "left behind" in their prior hometowns a lot of problems - mainly relationship and alcohol issues - and these people somehow became dumbfounded that the same problems arose again many months or a year or two after their big move. Our town, for example, had a much higher divorce rate and drunk driving rate than what occurred statewide and some actual real data clearly reflected that the people who had moved to our town in the prior two-year time period had a radically higher rate of those issues (i.e., locals certainly had their issues too but the new people were skewing the averages quite a bit).

Before anybody gets bent out of shape by my comments, I don't think nor am I saying that all or even a substantial percentage of expats who move here fit this pattern; however, I do agree with Jingthing that there seems to be a higher rate of problems (alcohol, failed relationships, suicides, etc.) with some percentage of the expat community than one would expect. As to exactly why this is or even whether the perception is truly real, I'll leave that for others to figure out.

[sdanielmcev]

I wouldn't consider it a failure unless they bragged too much about it. I've come to Thailand to start a new life, but already have lived enough to know I'm trading one set of circumstances for another set. Probably most failed ex-pats fail at just about anything.

[lanng khao]

they go, they try it and find they don't like it! so what? why do you call that a failure?

Because like someone i know who likes to show off to his friends back home about what a great life

it is in Thailand, how everything is so cheap and you can have a great life on very little, eventually

after much badgering from his peers, this person is retired from work due to age, moves to Thailand,

marries his Thai darling he has known for years, a country girl, not the bar type, buys a modest house,

a modest car, and motor bike, furnishes the house, landscapes the garden, sends many photos back

home to show off his success, when i caught up with him last time he confessed to me that he has

made the biggest mistake of his life, the missus now spends the days out with her friends drinking,

goes off at daybreak, comes home in the evenings completely drunk and sometimes won't come

home for days,, i couldn't believe this so i asked the neighbors and they confirmed how this timid

lady would come home in the evening and start shouting and arguing throwing things at the walls, they

told me the fights were very violent,,, this is the saddest thing i have ever encountered because this

fellow won't leave because a: lack of money and b: his friends will consider him a failure,, i wonder how

many other people are in the same situation, i suppose abuse goes both ways but we seldom hear

about the husband being abused.

then the failure was due to his bragging not the fact that it didnt work out.

<deleted>.

[big carl]

I have lived here in Thailand now for 8 years. I cut all my physical ties back home. How ever I retained the personal ties. I would be very welcome back home. How ever I just could not completely live with the same same culture day in and day out I was over 60 when I came here. I consider Thailand my home as it has been for 8 years. The culture is different and I may not fit in to it but I am accepted into it. To this day I enjoy that. The difference in cultures is a really big attraction to me.

That having been said if I was to get tired of this culture I would have no problem moving on to another one. South America has many possibilities. I have spent some time in Mexico and it was nice. I read where Ecuador and Panama offer great ex pat opportunities. But at the moment I am still happy with Thailand and if I was to move to another country I would not consider myself a failure. If I was to move back home which I can afford to do I would consider myself a failure.

[JLCrab]

I'd like to know what the OP refers to as 'expat failure'.

What is his/her definition of 'failure' ?

I own a crappy old car, had two sprogs with a Thai woman who I haven't married, I live more of my time in Thailand then I do the West, so fair enough to be classed as an expat ... so ... did I 'fail'?

.

Definition of 'failure' courtesy of The Wizard of Oz (1939):

SCARECROW

Oh, I'm a failure, because I haven't got a brain.

DOROTHY

Well, what would you do with a brain if you had one?

.

[villagefarang]

Thanks for the link JT.

This is a subject that has interested me from time to time as I watch people come and go from Thailand. Through my blog I have even corresponded with people who have had great plans for moving to Thailand but in the end it just never happened. Perhaps they just needed a hobby or some dream to spice up their lives or perhaps they really thought they might make the move, I’ll never know.

It is hard for me sometimes to imagine what it is like for these guys who discover Thailand late in life. Since I am vastly outnumbered by these recent retirees it behooves me, however, to learn more about their very different motivations and experiences. I suppose that is one reason I hangout here on TV.

It is annoying that so many here fixated on the word failed as this is an interesting topic. I found the comments on the link more interesting than most of the comments here.

[maidee]

It’s better to have tried and failed than to live life wondering what would’ve happened if I had tried

[AYJAYDEE]

Consider this scenario.

Not uncommon.

You tell all your friends and family in the west, I'm moving to Thailand to live for life. I'm selling my house, car, etc.

Then you show up again in two years or even ten.

Don't kid yourselves.

To those people, they will think you did not fulfill your intentions, regardless of the loaded word failure or not.

I find my self in agreement with JT on this subject

if one enters in to an endeavor , any endeavor, with a specific set of goals in mind, and one fails to achieve these goals, then that person has failed. at least as far as that particular endeavor is concerned.

I Have thought about this subject when trying to understand the reasons behind the unusual amount of animosity a large number of expats exhibit toward Thais. and Thailand

I think this animosity is directly proportional to the rate of failure.

People arrive here with unreasonable expectations, when they fail to realize those expectations, they rationalize their failure as the fault of the Thais, or Thailand, rather than their own failure to set reasonable expectations.

perhaps its because they, like you, mistakenly feel it to be failure.

[glasswort]

Sorry, but what a pointless topic. Frankly I am not in the least bit interested as to why expats fail. Why would I be?

[canarysun]

I have been living abroad in the sunshine for the last 25 years.I left the UK with only a 100 pounds (GBP) in my pocket and headed off to the Canary Islands for " a weeks holiday " ( and ended up staying 20 years! ) i made some money and moved to Thailand where i have lived for almost 4 years.It is " no secret " that i have financial problems but after all these years if i was to return to the UK with only " loose change in my pocket " then i would look back at enjoying my " 25 year holiday " and i have certainly not failed.

I left the Uk when i was 25 years old ( i am now 51 ) but i think if you are considering " moving to a new country " then do it while you are young! Do not wait until you are 60 years old and upwards! You are too old in the game ( kind respect to those who feel pale & old ....)

If i was to return to the UK with just a small case ( my life ) i know i would find myself with many of my old friends who have nice houses and expensive cars. ( things that are not important to me anymore ) I would find it difficult to adapt back into a country that i never felt part of... but it's not a bad achievement and not many people i guess can say that they have been away on a " 25 year holiday " ( Jim Carey face )

Photo attached of myself from the start of my " 25 year adventure " when i was a holiday rep for a well known holiday company ( still fooling about ......)

Greetings to you all viewers!

Farang Jaidee

[Songlaw]

I'm here because I cant afford to live in Japan. If I did live in Japan, I expect that I'd be looking at the thermostat and wishing I was in Pattaya - its the human condition.

I call it, "The Grass is Greener Syndrome." It is part and parcel of the Human Condition, Mr. Worldwide.

[NoshowJones]

I'd like to know what the OP refers to as 'expat failure'.

What is his/her definition of 'failure' ?

I own a crappy old car, had two sprogs with a Thai woman who I haven't married, I live more of my time in Thailand then I do the West, so fair enough to be classed as an expat ... so ... did I 'fail'?

.

No.

[kieran2698]

I'd like to know what the OP refers to as 'expat failure'.

What is his/her definition of 'failure' ?

I own a crappy old car, had two sprogs with a Thai woman who I haven't married, I live more of my time in Thailand then I do the West, so fair enough to be classed as an expat ... so ... did I 'fail'?

.

I think you are definitely not an expat if you live a large chunk of time in your home country every year.

The roots that real expats have cut, you clearly have NOT cut them.

But you're free to think whatever you like.

I would class thinking you're an expat when you are objectively not an expat as a lie that you tell yourself (and here others).

Not suggesting it is superior or inferior to be an expat or not ... that's your choice how you wanna live residence-wise, just keeping it real.

I pretty much already provided a definition of expat failure ... having clear intentions on foreign residency and backing off from them when faced with reality.

People can go overboard here and try to hijack this thread into being only about the use of the word failure.

That was not my intention in starting the thread, so if that does happen, I would say that's a sign of a failed thread attempt (with a little help from my "friends").

Cheers, dude.

And you have formed your own definition of expat. I think you are definitely not an expat if you have cut off all your roots, as then you become an immigrant. Expats do not intend to stay whereas immigrants do. To me, your post is about failed immigrants and you are confusing the numbers due to the large amount of expats amongst them.

[mikebike]

It is annoying that so many here fixated on the word failed as this is an interesting topic. I found the comments on the link more interesting than most of the comments here.

I'm as pedantic as the next guy but the article adds up to little more than 'I didn't like it - reality did not live up to my abilities or expectations'. Seems simple, end-of-story to me... where is the deep question or meaning to be found in this migratory minutia?

[poweratradio]

Consider this scenario.

Not uncommon.

You tell all your friends and family in the west, I'm moving to Thailand to live for life. I'm selling my house, car, etc.

Then you show up again in two years or even ten.

Don't kid yourselves.

To those people, they will think you did not fulfill your intentions, regardless of the loaded word failure or not.

There also is medical reasons for a return to the west. I wonder would the folks on this forum consider that failure

[Donnie Brasco]

Topic schmopic.

[lanng khao]

I have been living abroad in the sunshine for the last 25 years.I left the UK with only a 100 pounds (GBP) in my pocket and headed off to the Canary Islands for " a weeks holiday " ( and ended up staying 20 years! ) i made some money and moved to Thailand where i have lived for almost 4 years.It is " no secret " that i have financial problems but after all these years if i was to return to the UK with only " loose change in my pocket " then i would look back at enjoying my " 25 year holiday " and i have certainly not failed.

I left the Uk when i was 25 years old ( i am now 51 ) but i think if you are considering " moving to a new country " then do it while you are young! Do not wait until you are 60 years old and upwards! You are too old in the game ( kind respect to those who feel pale & old ....)

If i was to return to the UK with just a small case ( my life ) i know i would find myself with many of my old friends who have nice houses and expensive cars. ( things that are not important to me anymore ) I would find it difficult to adapt back into a country that i never felt part of... but it's not a bad achievement and not many people i guess can say that they have been away on a " 25 year holiday " ( Jim Carey face )

Photo attached of myself from the start of my " 25 year adventure " when i was a holiday rep for a well known holiday company ( still fooling about ......)

Greetings to you all viewers!

Farang Jaidee

canary you looklike sombody out of haircut one hundred..good lookin lad, you must of blasted some birds in your time with that job..

[HeijoshinCool]

Consider this scenario.

Not uncommon.

You tell all your friends and family in the west, I'm moving to Thailand to live for life. I'm selling my house, car, etc.

Then you show up again in two years or even ten.

Don't kid yourselves.

To those people, they will think you did not fulfill your intentions, regardless of the loaded word failure or not.

.

Wanna make God laugh?

Tell 'em your plans.

[John1thru10]

This is in the category of threads like, 'Do Thai people have conversations?'

[TheSiemReaper]

What does expat success look like? Teaching English for less than a grand a month, endless visa runs, and living in a toilet that you would never consider living in with a prostitue half your age? Because that looks like failure to me. I'd rather go home than end up worse off in South East Asia.

I've been an expat for way over a decade and the vast majority of expats I've encountered have "failed" by any sensible measuring stick.

Staying in a country doesn't make you a success. It's what you do with your life that determines that.

[AYJAYDEE]

What does expat success look like? Teaching English for less than a grand a month, endless visa runs, and living in a toilet that you would never consider living in with a prostitue half your age? Because that looks like failure to me. I'd rather go home than end up worse off in South East Asia.

I've been an expat for way over a decade and the vast majority of expats I've encountered have "failed" by any sensible measuring stick.

Staying in a country doesn't make you a success. It's what you do with your life that determines that.

and you figure youre the one that has what it takes to decide if others are living a satisfying life? rather presumptious i must say.

[villagefarang]

It is annoying that so many here fixated on the word failed as this is an interesting topic. I found the comments on the link more interesting than most of the comments here.

I'm as pedantic as the next guy but the article adds up to little more than 'I didn't like it - reality did not live up to my abilities or expectations'. Seems simple, end-of-story to me... where is the deep question or meaning to be found in this migratory minutia?

Interesting attitude.

[Docno]

There are range of things we could talk about here. For example, if we are focusing on 'working expats', we have the fact that many international companies essentially require high-potential managers to acquire expat experience if they want to advance further in their careers -- this means that some people take it up when they are neither suited to or intrinsically interested in such experiences.

But if we focus on 'non-working expats' (i.e., those not sent abroad by their employer), there are still multiple issues at play. Here's just a couple:

1. There's some interesting research coming out over the past few years that job and life satisfaction have less to do with one's job and situation and more to do with one's mindset/personality. In other words, a person who is dissatisfied in one job/situation/location is likely to be dissatisfied in other jobs/situations/locations. [More recent twin studies show a strong genetic link here]. This means that if someone leaves their home country out of a sense of dissatisfaction there, they're not likely to find paradise elsewhere... soon enough they'll start complaining incessantly about their new home (perhaps using ThaiVisa as their medium).
   
2. People vary in their cultural adaptability and cultural intelligence. I've seen some people adapt very well and very quickly to new cultural settings (making local friends, enjoying the customs/food/etc, learning the language) while others act either like a 'bull in a chinashop' or withdraw to an expat ghetto. These latter people are the ones who complain about how things are done, how rude/brainless the locals are, how unbearable the weather is, how lousy the local food is, and about how they can't get their favourite cheese at the local grocery store. These people are not enjoying themselves, but blame it on their new home rather than themselves.

Yeah - as you can see, I could go on at (even more) length on this topic. Sorry

[TheSiemReaper]

What does expat success look like? Teaching English for less than a grand a month, endless visa runs, and living in a toilet that you would never consider living in with a prostitue half your age? Because that looks like failure to me. I'd rather go home than end up worse off in South East Asia.

I've been an expat for way over a decade and the vast majority of expats I've encountered have "failed" by any sensible measuring stick.

Staying in a country doesn't make you a success. It's what you do with your life that determines that.

and you figure youre the one that has what it takes to decide if others are living a satisfying life? rather presumptious i must say.

Satisfaction is not the same as success. Check it in the dictionary if you don't believe me. Society has pretty clearly demarked the definition of success; my example clear doesn't meet that standard.

You may feel smug about not judging but that's what life does to us every single time we leave the house.

[Evilbaz]

I'd like to know what the OP refers to as 'expat failure'.

What is his/her definition of 'failure' ?

I own a crappy old car, had two sprogs with a Thai woman who I haven't married, I live more of my time in Thailand then I do the West, so fair enough to be classed as an expat ... so ... did I 'fail'?

.

I think you are definitely not an expat if you live a large chunk of time in your home country every year.

The roots that real expats have cut, you clearly have NOT cut them.

But you're free to think whatever you like.

I would class thinking you're an expat when you are objectively not an expat as a lie that you tell yourself (and here others).

Not suggesting it is superior or inferior to be an expat or not ... that's your choice how you wanna live residence-wise, just keeping it real.

I pretty much already provided a definition of expat failure ... having clear intentions on foreign residency and backing off from them when faced with reality.

People can go overboard here and try to hijack this thread into being only about the use of the word failure.

That was not my intention in starting the thread, so if that does happen, I would say that's a sign of a failed thread attempt (with a little help from my "friends").

Cheers, dude.

And you have formed your own definition of expat. I think you are definitely not an expat if you have cut off all your roots, as then you become an immigrant. Expats do not intend to stay whereas immigrants do. To me, your post is about failed immigrants and you are confusing the numbers due to the large amount of expats amongst them.

I must disagree - unless you can show me a long-term Visa or Extension for Thailand that the category does not start with " Non-Immigrant ..."

We are never Immigrants here - just Aliens.

[CaptHaddock]

One big problem is they don't allow themselves an escape hatch - a bolt hole - when they burn out they are stuck in LOS

In general, Don't sell everything and move to Thailand is the moral.. keep a condo or a suite back home for if- when needed

Some expats cannot have this luxury, the at-risk ones sometimes off themselves as a result, feeling trapped in "paradise"..

This approach has never made any sense to me. Owning a condo back in the home country does not provide any additional measure of safety for an expat. It's a liability. It has to be managed, taxes paid, protected from damage, etc. What protects you both at home and abroad is having money. Selling the property at home does not prevent you from returning and renting a place for short or long-term.

Edited December 30, 2014 by CaptHaddock

[Songlaw]

I'd like to know what the OP refers to as 'expat failure'.

What is his/her definition of 'failure' ?

I own a crappy old car, had two sprogs with a Thai woman who I haven't married, I live more of my time in Thailand then I do the West, so fair enough to be classed as an expat ... so ... did I 'fail'?

.

Can only be seen in hindsight really. Here's a test for anyone wishing to know if they did or could fail. If you died tomorrow will everyone you care about still be able to live their dreams, with all the options that may entail?

Unless that question is rhetorical, it is otherwise senseless. Barring that the expat in question has somehow disabled the minds, or hacked off the arms and legs of everyone he or she cares about, of course they would be able. The question would be, would they be willing? Given the ethereal nature of dreams, the answer could only lie in the hearts and minds of everyone left behind. Putting this degree of onus on the potentially deceased, is in a word, cruel.

[CapeCobra]

The failure of his health caused his retirement. He cooked for his friends at a farewell party, but the dish was a failure. He moved to Thailand full of expectations but the country failed him. He returned home when he realized that emigration had been a failure. He started bonding with his kids when he realized that, as a father, he had been a failure.

Many expats have been failures in different roles before they arrived in Thailand. Some continue failing as businessmen, husbands, boyfriends, buddies, or just anything. I think failure is not related to being an expat.

[EmptyHead]

This thread is a failure.

But i would say we are mostly winners here....What you we be doing "back home"?

Edited December 30, 2014 by EmptyHead

[2fishin2]

Lately Ive been failing to understand why these kind of nonsensicle threads have been popping up more and more?? All trying to "bait" people into arguments and to find as much fault as possible with people in general.