Failed expats and the lies they tell others and themselves as to why ...

[bkkjames]

I'd like to know what the OP refers to as 'expat failure'.

What is his/her definition of 'failure' ?

Define failed expat JT.

Everyone is waiting for your answer ...

.

I already gave the answer that I want to give.

If you don't like it, that's fine with me.

You and others can ask me the same question 100 times and I will give the same answer, so do yourselves a favor, don't bother, and focus on the topic of the thread which is WELL EXPANDED in the linked article in the OP (and indeed is MUCH BIGGER than kvetching over the definition of expat failure), instead of weird personal baggage you clearly want to vent here that has nada to do with the topic.

No weird personal baggage JT unless you are referring to my being married, kids and a career here - that's my camp....

[benalibina]

Your words.....

I pretty much already provided a definition of expat failure ... having clear intentions on foreign residency and backing off from them when faced with reality.

Interesting...to say the least.....

[David48]

JT ... so this question isn't raised by other members ... please give the post link or # where you have defined it.

Both James and I have missed it.

Thanks ...

This is unbelievable:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787836-failed-expats-and-the-lies-they-tell-others-and-themselves-as-to-why/?p=8869421

JT ... my warmest apologies ... nestled in all the snipes in your reply, I missed your definition.

<snipe>

I pretty much already provided a definition of expat failure ... having clear intentions on foreign residency and backing off from them when faced with reality.

<snipe>

I'm always happy to admit when I'm wrong ...

Thanks for clearing that up ...

.

[Jingthing]

Your words.....

I pretty much already provided a definition of expat failure ... having clear intentions on foreign residency and backing off from them when faced with reality.

Interesting...to say the least.....

So a mate of yours says to you, I'm moving to France to start a new life, I've had it with living in New Zealand.

They come back in two years.

You have no idea what the real reason is, only what they tell you.

The real reason could more embarrassing than what they tell you.

That really, I think, is the core of the linked article in the OP.

Like they were incapable of learning French and they need to do that to effectively live there.

Intention stated.

Intention not realized.

I don't think failure is far off the mark.

We all fail in all kinds of things in life ... as long as you're still alive, you live and learn and make new choices.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Jingthing

[AYJAYDEE]

Your words.....

I pretty much already provided a definition of expat failure ... having clear intentions on foreign residency and backing off from them when faced with reality.

Interesting...to say the least.....

So a mate of yours says to you, I'm moving to France to start a new life, I've had it with living in New Zealand.

They come back in two years.

You have no idea what the real reason is, only what they tell you.

The real reason could more embarrassing than what they tell you.

That really, I think, is the core of the linked article in the OP.

Like they were incapable of learning French and they need to do that to effectively live there.

Intention stated.

Intention not realized.

I don't think failure is far off the mark.

We all fail in all kinds of things in life ... as long as you're still alive, you live and learn and make new choices.

changing ones mind is not failure. continuing to go in a direction that makes one miserable certainly is.

[lannarebirth]

Your words.....

I pretty much already provided a definition of expat failure ... having clear intentions on foreign residency and backing off from them when faced with reality.

Interesting...to say the least.....

So a mate of yours says to you, I'm moving to France to start a new life, I've had it with living in New Zealand.

They come back in two years.

You have no idea what the real reason is, only what they tell you.

The real reason could more embarrassing.

Like they were incapable of learning French and they need to do that to effectively live there.

Intention stated.

Intention not realized.

I don't think failure is far off the mark.

We all fail in all kinds of things in life ... as long as you're still alive, you live and learn and make new choices.

I think a distinction needs to be made between those that wish they were able to continue that expat life, but through lack of planning or subsequent wrong actions can no longer and those that began to be an expat, decided it wasn't for them and then made another choice.

[wow64]

This thread is a failure... Just dont tell your family back home op. Where did you come up with this crap?

Sent from my c64

[Jingthing]

This thread is a failure... Just dont tell your family back home op. Where did you come up with this crap?

Sent from my c64

This thread indeed may be a failure. It happens. Start threads, some hit, some coast along, some blow up, and some are duds with no response. C'est la vie on a forum. No biggie.

I will admit to making a judgment error in the headline of this thread.

You see when writing headlines you do want to draw people in ... and to do that, you want to add a touch of edge.

If people don't even read your thread because they find the headline dull, then you have a sure thing DUD.

But seeing as all most people want to talk about is the semantics of the word failure, I can see now that was a mistake in wording as I INTENDED to introduce a less narrowly focused thread than that.

Live and learn.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Jingthing

[AYJAYDEE]

This thread is a failure... Just dont tell your family back home op. Where did you come up with this crap?

Sent from my c64

This thread indeed may be a failure. It happens. Start threads, some hit, some coast along, some blow up, and some are duds with no response. C'est la vie on a forum. No biggie.

I will admit to making a judgment error in the headline of this thread.

You see when writing headlines you do want to draw people in ... and to do that, you want to add a touch of edge.

If people don't even read your thread because they find the headline dull, then you have a sure thing DUD.

But seeing as all most people want to talk about is the semantics of the word failure, I can see now that was a mistake in wording as I INTENDED to introduce a less narrowly focused thread than that.

Live and learn.

was it the post or the poster?

[bkkjames]

This thread is a failure... Just dont tell your family back home op. Where did you come up with this crap?

Sent from my c64

This thread indeed may be a failure. It happens. Start threads, some hit, some coast along, some blow up, and some are duds with no response. C'est la vie on a forum. No biggie.

I will admit to making a judgment error in the headline of this thread.

You see when writing headlines you do want to draw people in ... and to do that, you want to add a touch of edge.

If people don't even read your thread because they find the headline dull, then you have a sure thing DUD.

But seeing as all most people want to talk about is the semantics of the word failure, I can see now that was a mistake in wording as I INTENDED to introduce a less narrowly focused thread than that.

Live and learn.

How about "Do you consider yourself to be a failed expat...or just masochistic?"

You know JT, presidents and the like oft employ speech writers or at least a PR team to come up with headlines that have teeth. They get paid millions of dollars to do this - I hear.

[Jingthing]

Most of my circle of expat friends have been here (or their chosen Asian country) a long time. I'm coming up on 20 years as an expat, I have friends at nearly double that.

Everyone seems happy with their lot although that may have something to do with having a rather larger disposable income than most.

I wonder how much has changed since the LSE did their survey in 1990, surly the author of the linked article could have found more recent data.

That's a good point but your personal experience is indeed anecdotal.

I guess what I meant in the OP is that there really aren't good hard statistics on this kind of thing ...

Personally, perhaps because I live in Pattaya, a pretty transient place, anecdotaly I think most are indeed leaving earlier than they intended.

Some of course to other parts of Thailand, or other third countries, but hard to measure, hard to know.

[mikebike]

The linked article in the OP is freakin' hilarious!! The author actually believes antidotal evidence from his circle of friends and 25 year old stats constitute "research"!! 55555

Judging by the author's "real reasons" for expats returning home the peeps he's talking to aren't "failed expats" they are idiots who had no concept of what they were getting into in the first place - maybe they thought they were in a "retirement" commercial... Freedom 55 and all that &lt;deleted&gt;! If you have to return home for the reasons he states, you are not an expat, you are a long-term tourist.

[Jingthing]

The linked article in the OP is freakin' hilarious!! The author actually believes antidotal evidence from his circle of friends and 25 year old stats constitute "research"!! 55555

Judging by the author's "real reasons" for expats returning home the peeps he's talking to aren't "failed expats" they are idiots who had no concept of what they were getting into in the first place - maybe they thought they were in a "retirement" commercial... Freedom 55 and all that <deleted>! If you have to return home for the reasons he states, you are not an expat, you are a long-term tourist.

But this is getting interesting.

Because he got some "real" reasons with real TRUTHINESS and some of them were indeed embarrassing to admit.

Mock it or not, that is real life for lots of people.

We're human beings. We're flawed. Anyway, if you do live outside your home country for an extended period of time and establish a primary residence there, I still think you're an expat by definition even if you're actually living as a long term tourist. Which many many of course do.

[AYJAYDEE]

Most of my circle of expat friends have been here (or their chosen Asian country) a long time. I'm coming up on 20 years as an expat, I have friends at nearly double that.

Everyone seems happy with their lot although that may have something to do with having a rather larger disposable income than most.

I wonder how much has changed since the LSE did their survey in 1990, surly the author of the linked article could have found more recent data.

That's a good point but your personal experience is indeed anecdotal.

I guess what I meant in the OP is that there really aren't good hard statistics on this kind of thing ...

Personally, perhaps because I live in Pattaya, a pretty transient place, anecdotaly I think most are indeed leaving earlier than they intended.

Some of course to other parts of Thailand, or other third countries, but hard to measure, hard to know.

ive met lots of guys who left pattaya to live in thailand. cant imagine who wouldnt

[Jingthing]

Most of my circle of expat friends have been here (or their chosen Asian country) a long time. I'm coming up on 20 years as an expat, I have friends at nearly double that.

Everyone seems happy with their lot although that may have something to do with having a rather larger disposable income than most.

I wonder how much has changed since the LSE did their survey in 1990, surly the author of the linked article could have found more recent data.

That's a good point but your personal experience is indeed anecdotal.

I guess what I meant in the OP is that there really aren't good hard statistics on this kind of thing ...

Personally, perhaps because I live in Pattaya, a pretty transient place, anecdotaly I think most are indeed leaving earlier than they intended.

Some of course to other parts of Thailand, or other third countries, but hard to measure, hard to know.

ive met lots of guys who left pattaya to live in thailand. cant imagine who wouldnt

People joke about New York City the same way, but if I could afford to live in New York City I'd be much happier than in Podunk.

[kurnell]

I failed in my own country but am successful in Thailand.

[mikebike]

I just decided after a 1 year's retirement extension that I preferred the first world amenities in the US. I don't care for bars, bar girls, or an excess of alcohol and Thailand is a craphole compared to "most parts" of the US.

Thailand turned into a nice place to visit about once a year for a max of 180 days but usually more like 90. Then I get on a plane and return to everything that makes a first world country comfortable, and to weather that doesn't melt me with heat and humidity.

I'm not sure what your personal experience adds to the topic...

I also don't care for bars, bar girls, or an excess of alcohol.

But, I find the US a craphole compared to most parts of Thailand.

I live in the south of Thailand yet regularly wear heavy pants and a hoody, so heat and humidity's no issue.

I cannot think of a single amenity/comfort that would improve my life at the moment.

Anyone else want to compare their opinions with NS?!!? LOL!!

[Jingthing]

I failed in my own country but am successful in Thailand.

I like this comment.

People have a chance to reinvent themselves when they expatriate.

Probably much more so when a westerner moves to the "exotic" east as here in Thailand.

It's an opportunity but also a risk.

[AYJAYDEE]

Most of my circle of expat friends have been here (or their chosen Asian country) a long time. I'm coming up on 20 years as an expat, I have friends at nearly double that.

Everyone seems happy with their lot although that may have something to do with having a rather larger disposable income than most.

I wonder how much has changed since the LSE did their survey in 1990, surly the author of the linked article could have found more recent data.

That's a good point but your personal experience is indeed anecdotal.

I guess what I meant in the OP is that there really aren't good hard statistics on this kind of thing ...

Personally, perhaps because I live in Pattaya, a pretty transient place, anecdotaly I think most are indeed leaving earlier than they intended.

Some of course to other parts of Thailand, or other third countries, but hard to measure, hard to know.

ive met lots of guys who left pattaya to live in thailand. cant imagine who wouldnt

People joke about New York City the same way, but if I could afford to live in New York City I'd be much happier than in Podunk.

i might visit for a couple of days tops but I wouldnt live in a place like that on a bet!

[mikebike]

...he got some "real" reasons with real TRUTHINESS and some of them were indeed embarrassing to admit.

When boiled-down his "interviewee's" "real reasons" add up to, "I don't like it here". None were insurmountable issues, they just lacked the will to truly become an expat. Can't cut the coat strings back to their perceived "normal" culture and society. Like a kid running away from home for the first time, or the young adult who goes away to university only to move back into the folks basement again until they're 35!!

[Gecko123]

Expat defined: a person who moves to another country with the intention of making that country their primary home for an indefinite period of time.

Expat failure defined: relocation or significantly impaired functionality primarily caused by difficulty adapting or adjusting to the new environment.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Gecko123

[Jingthing]

i might visit for a couple of days tops but I wouldnt live in a place like that on a bet!

That reminds me of a personal story.

When I was in my early 20s I ATTEMPTED to move to New York City. My intention wasn't clearly to move there for life in any way (or not ) ... I had some short term plans in mind ... and I spent a few weeks there and found the best I could afford was a cold water flat on a high floor with no elevator and RATS .. and for that, I had to be heavily screened ... and I went running right quick back to where I came from. Now that was a failed move attempt for sure. But I did want to live there. Just not badly enough.

[mrskint]

Thailand gets boring after a while, I get bored towards the end of month long trips and can't imagine ever want to live there. Pretty sure many expats get bored after a while too.

[tom21]

I must be a failed expat as I came to Thailand 7 years ago. the intention was to travel around Thailand living for a time in different places then do the same in Laos, Cambodia and the Philippines. I stayed in the same place and toured around Thailand and the Philippines. my original intention was to do it for 10 years and wonder if I am going to fail to go home

[AYJAYDEE]

i might visit for a couple of days tops but I wouldnt live in a place like that on a bet!

That reminds me of a personal story.

When I was in my early 20s I ATTEMPTED to move to New York City. My intention wasn't clearly to move there for life in any way (or not ) ... I had some short term plans in mind ... and I spent a few weeks there and found the best I could afford was a cold water flat on a high floor with no elevator and RATS .. and for that, I had to be heavily screened ... and I went running right quick back to where I came from. Now that was a failed move attempt for sure. But I did want to live there. Just not badly enough.

i'd call it good sense. living in a rats nest is for rats

[mikebike]

Thailand gets boring after a while, I get bored towards the end of month long trips and can't imagine ever want to live there. Pretty sure many expats get bored after a while too.

55555 - we must have vastly different interests, you're bored in less than a month and I'm 9 years and counting and not a dull day yet!!

[AYJAYDEE]

Expat defined: a person who moves to another country with the intention of making that country their primary home for an indefinite period of time.

Expat failure defined: relocation or significantly impaired functionality primarily caused by difficulty adapting or adjusting to the new environment.

feel free to link us to the dictionary you used

[thehelmsman]

Reading the comments on Thai Visa makes me feel extremely good about my life and circumstance in Thailand. Keep up the good work.

[bunnydrops]

This topic is too broad. I have known expats in Mexico that live in walled off communities, rarely leaving the grounds that are very happy "living" in Mexico. Are they successful expats? My life here is not at all what I had planned, but I am sure that would have also been the story back in my home country. " Life is what happens while making other plans." Am I a successful expat because I am still happy to be here or a failure because I didn't get the life I was expecting?

[fish fingers]

Thailand isn't the same country it was in the late 90's - I think most of us who have memories of it then.. cling to the occasional reminders

I think the trick is to have variety of life in Thailand and not to get stuck in one place and get out of the city alot- also have a rental income to fall back on