Big parties' rivalry poses reform headache

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Big parties' rivalry poses reform headache
The Nation January 3, 2015 1:00 am

BANGKOK: -- How to fit Democrats and Pheu Thai in new system is big question

It's interesting how Thailand's "reform" will accommodate the two biggest political parties, whose fierce rivalry has been more or less blamed for the ongoing divide. The Democrat and Pheu Thai parties have been all but hibernating since the May 22 coup, but sooner or later those tasked with mapping out Thailand's new political system will have to take them into consideration. How the two parties will fit into the system will be decisive for the future course of the country.

The rivalry features key elements of Thailand's political troubles. Thailand's oldest political outfit, the Democrat Party, was losing rural support to Pheu Thai in the North and Northeast and was criticised for not working hard enough for the poor. Pheu Thai, while popular among the grassroots thanks to big-money welfare policies, often ventured into legal minefields, sometimes unknowingly but sometimes arrogantly. Pheu Thai's close association with Thaksin Shinawatra is also a major factor that will cause headaches to those contemplating new political rules.

As we can see, Pheu Thai has been popular for good reasons, but the party also got what was coming after pushing through its "amnesty" bill in the most dubious manner and ignoring repeated, vocal warnings against its controversial rice-pledging scheme. The Democrats, meanwhile, played a respectable role in Parliament when it came to scrutinising questionable policies but took the rivalry a step too far by mobilising street rallies against the Pheu Thai government. It also has to be noted that mobilising street protests featuring encamped people, some of whom might have been armed, was a strategy advocated by Pheu Thai back in 2010.

How can we make both parties take a couple of steps back? Right now, everybody is afraid that reform that "favours" the Democrats will not be accepted by those who support Pheu Thai, and vice versa. Reform elements that touch on their rivalry include electoral measures, anti-graft methods and who will be covered by future "amnesty" laws. These are key issues that have contributed to the country's political deadlock. But these are also the issues that need to be tackled head-on if the reform promised by interim Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha is to bring back justice and peace.

Both the Democrat and Pheu Thai parties are required to work on their own internal reforms. They will need to do a lot of soul-searching while Thai democracy is taking a break. But their internal reforms are a different issue. And both parties are unlikely to do anything without first seeing what national reform looks like.

The task is daunting for those responsible for laying down new rules for the political parties. But Thailand is a comatose patient in urgent need of surgery - a situation in which something has got to give. The new Thai political system must still enshrine democratic values, but election winners must be made to respect the rule of law, checks and balances and be made aware of lines that are not to be crossed. Corruption, big or small, must be dealt with severely and according to a new standard that is never biased.

In fact, the reforms are all about saving democracy by making its key players more accountable, responsible and respectable. They have been anything but over the past few years, opening the door for outside intervention. They will need to be re-integrated into the system, though, because democracy remains the only viable path and democracy will need them. The question is "How?" And according to Prayut's own schedule, the people concerned have about a year to figure out the answer.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Big-parties-rivalry-poses-reform-headache-30251106.html

-- The Nation 2015-01-03

[The stuttering parrot]

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

[orientalsf]

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

It's attitudes like this that keep Thailand and its people from working together for the common good of all Thai's. I wish Thailand as a whole peace and prosperity in the future.

[Thai at Heart]

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

It's attitudes like this that keep Thailand and its people from working together for the common good of all Thai's. I wish Thailand as a whole peace and prosperity in the future.

Nowhere functions with 100% consensus. Thus, better to embrace debate and challenge than to insist on false harmony.

[15Peter20]

Democracy isn't democracy without disagreement. 'Thainess' appears to require no disagreement, thus no democracy.

[Robby nz]

Did anyone read yesterdays article in the BKK Post on the interviews with the red so called intellectuals who said they are waiting for Thaksin to do something before they can do anything.

And here's me thinking that intellectuals were people who have a mind of their own, could think for themselves and could come up with sensible ideas, but apparently not the red affiliated ones who have to wait to be told what to do.

We have seen Abhisith making suggestions and offering constructive criticism of what the present administration is doing, as per the news article today, but where is PT, waiting for instructions ?

Or are they just relying on, 'we will win the next election no matter what they or we do, everybody loves us', head back in the sand.

Yes there is a problem with those who refuse to compromise, who refuse to take part, who keep saying look what we did for the poor 10 years ago without recognizing what they did to the poor in the last 3 years, deeper in debt than ever.

[ChrisY1]

All sides of politics here in Thailand lack serious, well intentioned mature people.....

One side awaiting instructions from Thaksin, while the other is run by the elite......a crazy situation!

History has shown that Thais have rarely had a reasonably strong government or opposition, that can actually debate issues in a mature manner and arrive at genuine conclusions.

No government should be allowed to be managed by any person or persons, outside Thailand.....the Thaksin situation was absurd....and even more absurd, that this style of management was allowed to continue for the time it did.

Amnesty laws should also be abolished.

[zaphod reborn]

Easy solution. Permanent bans on both parties and lifetime bans on all their elected officials. They are all corrupt and no trials are needed.

[chainarong]

Regardless of negative thoughts on who is best the main function for all political parties major and minor is that of experience, I would much rather listen to the views of Khun Chuan than listen to General Prayut - O , however there are hidden minefields that need to be sorted out the chief one is removing the power away from the military and the CDC idea of non elected outsiders into cabinet and PM until these small matters are addressed no amount of posturing is going to tell me another set of protest by the people or a Coup will not happen.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

.... they will walk in....

Well let's hope that the reforms stop the distortion practiced in the red areas so that folks can listen to

the opposition.

Plus some form election commission which is tasked with monitoring speeches, political rallies and any forms of

'democracy schools' and taking fast action when speeches are untruthful etc etc.

Plus laws which state that all parties must have and state and defend through public open debate a clear manifesto

which has clear policies aimed at gaining a much better quality of life for all Thais through their own productivity.

Plus parties must provide a clear report card say every 6 months on what they have actually (done not said) which

is producing results against their stated manifesto / policies.

Plus a real level playing field where voters are well informed with unbiased information and can vote without any

form of manipulation or intimidation might just produce some different results.

[rickirs]

"Thai democracy is taking a break."

That is the sleaziest description of a military coup that I have ever seen.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"Thai democracy is taking a break."

That is the sleaziest description of a military coup that I have ever seen.

Thai democracy also took a break for all of the time the puppet was the clone pm.

[Baerboxer]

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

It's attitudes like this that keep Thailand and its people from working together for the common good of all Thai's. I wish Thailand as a whole peace and prosperity in the future.

Nowhere functions with 100% consensus. Thus, better to embrace debate and challenge than to insist on false harmony.

Indeed. But it was hard to debate and challenge a PTP administration whose "official" PM/DM never went to parliament or engaged in any form of open debate. The reality, which everyone knows, was that her brother was totally in control, a convicted criminal fugitive who wasn't elected. PTP were arrogant, refused to obey the law or court rulings they didn't like and openly lied. Left to their own devices they would have created a massive debt for the country and offered no accountability on where the money went; and have invented laws designed to keep themselves in power for as long as possible, just like the dubious amnesty bill they tried to sneak through and then lied about withdrawing it.

Until Thailand has a robust judicial system which severely punishes the hiso elite law breakers, and applies the law impartially; and adequate checks and balances, nothing will change.

[Baerboxer]

"Thai democracy is taking a break."

That is the sleaziest description of a military coup that I have ever seen.

What was your description for the previous sham administration - owned, controlled and selected by a non elected criminal fugitive; totally inept and admitting to lying?

Oh yes, you called it a democratic government.

Elected but then refused democracy, an interesting model based on corruption to finance rampant nepotism. Make sure your family and cronies are inserted into all key positions so all things can be controlled and covered up as necessary. Finance by introducing grand scams and refuse to give information so avoid any accountability. Trust us - a unique model.

[Alwyn]

Democrats? PT? It's all irrelevant as Prayuth and his Junta are going nowhere. They will not step down

[jpeg]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

.... they will walk in....

Well let's hope that the reforms stop the distortion practiced in the red areas so that folks can listen to

the opposition.

Plus some form election commission which is tasked with monitoring speeches, political rallies and any forms of

'democracy schools' and taking fast action when speeches are untruthful etc etc.

Plus laws which state that all parties must have and state and defend through public open debate a clear manifesto

which has clear policies aimed at gaining a much better quality of life for all Thais through their own productivity.

Plus parties must provide a clear report card say every 6 months on what they have actually (done not said) which

is producing results against their stated manifesto / policies.

Plus a real level playing field where voters are well informed with unbiased information and can vote without any

form of manipulation or intimidation might just produce some different results.

Plus bunnies and rainbows.

[candide]

Quote from the OP:

"Right now, everybody is afraid that reform that "favours" the Democrats will not be accepted by those who support Pheu Thai, and vice versa."

I guess there's no risk of "vice-versa" as there is absolutely no risk of a reform favouring Pheu Thai!

[Fatty123]

Democracy isn't democracy without disagreement. 'Thainess' appears to require no disagreement, thus no democracy.

This deserves a lot more likes. Great comment.

Another problem is that no politician is allowed to become too popular.

[seajae]

they need to ban any party that is formed/organized by any one person especially when that person is a wanted criminal living outside Thailand. Its way past time Thailand had laws that issue life bans from politics of anyone that is/has been charged and found guilty, anyone that is corrupt or has been associated with corruption in the past, anyone acting as a proxy for others with no idea of their responsibilities, anyone that has been involved in criminal activities and anyone using their position to avoid(or have avoided) criminal charges against them or their families. This would automatically wipe out most of the ptp/reds as well as a lot of dems and other party members, it would get rid of nearly all the pathetic politicians in Thailand and possibly give the country a chance to maker itself a lot better. They should also start to lay charges against all politicians that are/have been involved in any of these as well as stop them using parliamentary privilege to avoid jail, long jail terms would be ideal. Unfortunately I doubt Thailand will ever rid itself of these suspect/criminal mp's as long as there is money/payments involved

Edited January 3, 2015 by seajae

[whybother]

Democrats? PT? It's all irrelevant as Prayuth and his Junta are going nowhere. They will not step down

Yes they will.

[JAG]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

.... they will walk in....

Well let's hope that the reforms stop the distortion practiced in the red areas so that folks can listen to

the opposition.

Plus some form election commission which is tasked with monitoring speeches, political rallies and any forms of

'democracy schools' and taking fast action when speeches are untruthful etc etc.

Plus laws which state that all parties must have and state and defend through public open debate a clear manifesto

which has clear policies aimed at gaining a much better quality of life for all Thais through their own productivity.

Plus parties must provide a clear report card say every 6 months on what they have actually (done not said) which

is producing results against their stated manifesto / policies.

Plus a real level playing field where voters are well informed with unbiased information and can vote without any

form of manipulation or intimidation might just produce some different results.

Sadly all these procedures could and probably would be manipulated to ensure that the "yellow establishment" prevails over the democratic wish of the electorate.

[tbthailand]

How to fit Democrats and Pheu Thai in new system is big question

a big question for the anti-democrats writing the new constitution. For the rest, it's not really a question at all.

[dbrenn]

Too easy - they'll erase Pheu Thai bit by bit until there's nothing left of it.

The Dems will be left to take the reins unfettered. Problem solved

[djjamie]

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

And yet this majority that you purport to adhere to did not engage in civil war.

The majority you purport to respect showed overwhelmingly through over 20 polls that they support the Junta.

This majority showed they did not want an amnesty bill that the PTP pushed through against he wished of the majority.

This majority showed they wanted a public water hearings that the PTP never allowed them to have until it was forced through the courts.

This majority have been held in contempt since 2011 yet you gauge there support form the 2011 elections?

That is a misguided logic.

There was a lot of water under the bridge since 2011 and to say that they still have the backing of the majority is a naive and misguided outlook.

Under that logic I could repressively oversee a country for 20 years and refer to elections 21 years ago as the badge to my majority rule.

That is PTP logic my friend.

[djjamie]

Too easy - they'll erase Pheu Thai bit by bit until there's nothing left of it.

The Dems will be left to take the reins unfettered. Problem solved

Ahhh, so you have the next PTP election failure covered.

If they win the next election they are the most popular political party in history.

If they lose then it was a DEM conspiracy.

Kinda takes the majorities wishes out of the equation.

It reminds me of the last constitution referendum.

It did not go thaksins way so the majorities wishes where not respected and excuses where made to denounce the majorities wishes.

[Thai at Heart]

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

It's attitudes like this that keep Thailand and its people from working together for the common good of all Thai's. I wish Thailand as a whole peace and prosperity in the future.

Nowhere functions with 100% consensus. Thus, better to embrace debate and challenge than to insist on false harmony.

Indeed. But it was hard to debate and challenge a PTP administration whose "official" PM/DM never went to parliament or engaged in any form of open debate. The reality, which everyone knows, was that her brother was totally in control, a convicted criminal fugitive who wasn't elected. PTP were arrogant, refused to obey the law or court rulings they didn't like and openly lied. Left to their own devices they would have created a massive debt for the country and offered no accountability on where the money went; and have invented laws designed to keep themselves in power for as long as possible, just like the dubious amnesty bill they tried to sneak through and then lied about withdrawing it.

Until Thailand has a robust judicial system which severely punishes the hiso elite law breakers, and applies the law impartially; and adequate checks and balances, nothing will change.

I absolutely agree. But this endless handwringing that conflict at parliamentary level somehow is incompatible with Thainess is nonsense. The conflict must be confined to the parliament and must NOT be allowed to spill over into the streets again. Sondhi and the incapability of law enforcement to find a way to stop it set this precedent.

So they should be encouraging as much conflicting discourse as possible to get issues out into the open to create accountability, not to insist on a false detente. More openess, more debate, more talking, more public discourse, not less which allows the top of the party to control the message and muzzle the media and the people.

More openess and more scrutiny is what Thialand needs not a false game of intimidation and silence. A free judiciary and a free press is what Thailand needs. i doubt the junta will even attempt it.

[mrjohndub]

Thai democracy is not 'taking a break' per the OP. There has never been democracy in Thailand.

[JAG]

It's the yellow dems that have to figure something out not the PTP..

The PTP are the true government elected by the people and hold an election today or in one year they will walk in.

There will be a huge payback at the next poll.

And yet this majority that you purport to adhere to did not engage in civil war.

The majority you purport to respect showed overwhelmingly through over 20 polls that they support the Junta.

This majority showed they did not want an amnesty bill that the PTP pushed through against he wished of the majority.

This majority showed they wanted a public water hearings that the PTP never allowed them to have until it was forced through the courts.

This majority have been held in contempt since 2011 yet you gauge there support form the 2011 elections?

That is a misguided logic.

There was a lot of water under the bridge since 2011 and to say that they still have the backing of the majority is a naive and misguided outlook.

Under that logic I could repressively oversee a country for 20 years and refer to elections 21 years ago as the badge to my majority rule.

That is PTP logic my friend.

You really can't cope with it can you?

You set yourself up as the arbiter of what is and isn't democracy, ceaselessly mentioning principles (yet never quite managing to define what they are), and endlessly coming up with more and more patronizing bullshit to conceal or disguise the plain fact that you cannot accept that the faction which you despise repeatedly wins elections. You are delighted that they were removed by a military coup, and you use the same patronising bullshit to attempt to rally support for the Junta. You never fail to show contempt for the Thai people and their wishes. Democrat? You're a fraud mate!

Edited January 3, 2015 by JAG

[The stuttering parrot]

In all honesty I really cannot understand how posters actually support the junta.

When I mentioned payback via the ballot box that's what I meant.Not violence.

The attitude of the red PTP ?

The attitude is they won't fall for the attitude adjustments unlike some because they have been robbed of their democratically elected government.

[Thai at Heart]

In all honesty I really cannot understand how posters actually support the junta.

When I mentioned payback via the ballot box that's what I meant.Not violence.

The attitude of the red PTP ?

The attitude is they won't fall for the attitude adjustments unlike some because they have been robbed of their democratically elected government.

If the junta really wanted to push the country forward they would be racing ahead undoing the defamation laws, reforming the courts, passing whistle blower protection, passing massive anti-corruption legislations, opening up the internet, freeing the voices to bring more light to the corruption and mess that is Thai politics.

Then when PTP won, maybe there might be a chance of more accountabiltiy and scrutiny on the govt.

But no, the junta wish to tighten everthing up and hope beyond hope that PTP won't win.

I feel they are going to be very wrong about this, and then, while there may be payback at the ballot box, I have little doubt there will be payback in the courts. The junat has a chance to really put Thailand on a strong footing for the future but it can only work if they try to embrace more democracy and freedom. Alas that won't happen, and so the cycle of corruption, dodgy lawsuits, defamation nonsense will continue. If they have an election next year, i predict another coup before 2050 and it will have been because of the wasted chance that the junta will have thrown away with their short sighted ideology of cfear of democracy, control and micro management of the people.