Thai Silence

[petedk]

I have often been in restaurants where they have run out of food and not bothered to tell me. They either "forget" one of the dishes, bring a wrong dish or even spend time going out shopping for the missing ingredients with a simple "sakru na ka, sakru na ka" after a long long wait.

Last Sunday my Thai girlfriend and I went for a meal at a Japanese restaurant in Siam Paragon. I ordered a dish with pork and a Heineken Beer. The waitress came with an Asahai Beer and started to pour it out. My girlfriend complained that we ordered Heineken and the waitress replied that they don't serve Heineken. We asked as to why they didn't tell us that in the first place only to be met with a smile and no explanation. I joked with my girlfriend when she had received her food and a good 5 minutes later i hadn't received mine and said something like " They'll probably serve me chicken saying that they had run out of pork". Imagine my face when that happened!!!!! I started to get quite angry and complain when another waitress came and admitted they had made a mistake.

Yesterday I went to a well known restaurant and ordered a simple Pad Krapao Gai. I received some kind of chicken curry and when I pointed out that there was no basel in my food the waiter simply said that they didn't have any basel so they made this dish for me.

Why don't they have the guts to tell you that they have sold out or don't have the ingredients.

Does this just happen to me or do you others have similar experiences?

[simon43]

The bottom line is that Thai people are unable to admit when they have made a mistake.....

(I'll wait for the flames on this comment. But I have lived in LoS for 4 years and mixed 99% of my time with Thais. I have NEVER heard any Thai admit to making an error, however small...)

The excuse that 'face' is more important than honesty is just that - an excuse....

Simon

[Noel]

The bottom line is that Thai people are unable to admit when they have made a mistake.....

(I'll wait for the flames on this comment. But I have lived in LoS for 4 years and mixed 99% of my time with Thais. I have NEVER heard any Thai admit to making an error, however small...)

The excuse that 'face' is more important than honesty is just that - an excuse....

Simon

Whilst silence when a mistake has been made is far from uncommon, if you really have spent 99% of your time for four years with 'Thais' in LOS and never heard a Thai admit to making a mistake, you should try and meet another one.

Two may not be a representative sample...

[Donz]

The OP might have had a bad run, i think the waitress just didnt really care.

Simon, i think your just making up crap

[Ling Kae]

The bottom line is that Thai people are unable to admit when they have made a mistake.....

(I'll wait for the flames on this comment. But I have lived in LoS for 4 years and mixed 99% of my time with Thais. I have NEVER heard any Thai admit to making an error, however small...)

The excuse that 'face' is more important than honesty is just that - an excuse....

Simon

No need for flaming Simon because you are right. Ever asked a Thai where something is? Even if they don't have a clue they will point you in a direction...... any direction so as to not let themselves look stupid. Losing face is just that, they don't want to admit they are wrong or incapable of doing something, it is a cultural thing they do and we have to accept it and live with it because they aint going to change in a hurry. Think of all their good points and live with their bad ones.

[Donz]

I think alot of people take this face thing too far, 99% of thais never admit there wrong is total BS. Most Thai's wont loose face for not knowing where the pepper is. hahahaha come on guys, stop venting all your personal anger out in these forums, be real and not so negative about everything all the time.

Chill out

[simon43]

Despite your disbelieve at what I said, I can honestly repeat that my statement is true. I live with Thais and their extended families. I work with Thais. I buy goods from Thais etc etc. I speak nothing but Thai to all these people. I understand the concept of 'face' very well.

But it seems to me that 'losing face' is often used as an excuse for blatant lying, or for providing bad service, or for trying to cheat someone, (Thai and farang) in some way.

That is taking the p*ss quite frankly

Simon

[alexth]

The bottom line is that Thai people are unable to admit when they have made a mistake.....

(I'll wait for the flames on this comment. But I have lived in LoS for 4 years and mixed 99% of my time with Thais. I have NEVER heard any Thai admit to making an error, however small...)

The excuse that 'face' is more important than honesty is just that - an excuse....

Simon

Now I'm waiting for JD's reply

Edited August 14, 2006 by alexth

[britmaveric]

Well think some do not like to bring bad news - nothing more nothing less.

[Donz]

I know many Thais and work with many also, they all can admit when they dont know where something is lol.

If you think your statement is true that 99% of thais never admit they made a mistake then your just here for a wind up,

Plenty can admit they are wrong, Simon, how old are you by the way?

[Ling Kae]

Well think some do not like to bring bad news - nothing more nothing less.

In farang land we are always taught to admit your mistakes, apologize for them, then fix them and make sure it doesn't happen again. Some how I don't think the same logic applys here.

[jdinasia]

The bottom line is that Thai people are unable to admit when they have made a mistake.....

(I'll wait for the flames on this comment. But I have lived in LoS for 4 years and mixed 99% of my time with Thais. I have NEVER heard any Thai admit to making an error, however small...)

The excuse that 'face' is more important than honesty is just that - an excuse....

Simon

We obviously hang out with different Thai people (and deal with different Thai people etc etc

[Donz]

I see all the Thai bashers are loving this thread, telling all these funny STORIES so they can have a good old bash at the Thai ppl.

Good for a laugh though

[Ling Kae]

I see all the Thai bashers are loving this thread, telling all these funny STORIES so they can have a good old bash at the Thai ppl.

Good for a laugh though

This thread will be knocked on the head real soon.

Forum Rules:

"or extremely negative views of Thailand will not be tolerated"

[the swagman]

be real and not so negative about everything all the time.

Chill out

I agree. Come on folks. It's minor.

Why is everything so so big.

[simon43]

Well, I'm certainly not bashing Thailand! I am simply describing a situation which I find very frustrating, but which I accept is part and parcel of Thai culture.

That doesn't make it ok, just as the requirement to never fail a Thai student in his/her exams doesn't mean it's ok....

Simon

[Donz]

Well, I'm certainly not bashing Thailand! I am simply describing a situation which I find very frustrating, but which I accept is part and parcel of Thai culture.

That doesn't make it ok, just as the requirement to never fail a Thai student in his/her exams doesn't mean it's ok....

Simon

Are you for real?

[menostay]

My Mom apologized for having me...........

[number6]

IMHO its more complicated than that. I think Thais don’t like to say no and don’t like to not please. Its not just about loosing face. Also Thais don’t like asking questions. They are mostly taught form an early age not to ask. Go to almost any school and it’s a brave child who would even dare ask a question of teacher. Against that the school children are polite well mannered and dressed in good school uniform. Compare that with some of semi thugs you get in western schools. Its just to far the other way. I gave up asking only 1 Thai for directions a long time ago. Now I go the way they say ask again and then again. If 3 in a row point to same direction I reckon I’m onto a winner. It never ceases to amaze me that thais who have lived in a particular place don’t know more than 2 kts or so from where they live. Its almost like London 40-50 years ago where 90% of population had never travelled in their whole life more than 12 miles from where they were born. Also in department stores staff whove worked their years don’t know what’s on next floor. Thais do things in a very roundabout way. It’s taken years for my wife to say im hungry can we eat instead of are you hungry. My old answer was no dear but now she knows to just be honest. Its not really about honesty its far more deep. Again it took years for my wife not to worry to much and complain loudly if something was wrong in a restaurant or wherever. Now she’s more forang than me and always jokes I’ve become more Thai that her.

Best policy is if its wrong say so politely and refuse to get angry. Smile nicely and say right words. It’s a lovely country and as someone else said don’t concentrate on 10% that’s wrong but on 90% that’s right. Don’t just give in though and enjoy. It can be quite an amusing game to see who can be more polite in end.

Finally a lot of years ago I was at airport in south and we ate at restaurant. The sea food smelled awful. It was rancid. My Thai wife started eating it. I said for xxxxxxxxx sake don’t eat that. She then had to go toilet double quick. I called waitress and explained she said then why did you order it. Anyway I said we did not want it and I was not going to pay for it. The manager came over and said we had to pay because we ordered it. It was stinking I mean really rotten. I started getting really angry and then I said I tell you what you eat it and ill pay for it and also give you 1,000 baht. The manager still tried to ask us to pay. I said ok eat it all and well pay and ill give you 10,000 baht. She lifted the plate decided against it went off in a huff and it was not on our bill. My wife was amazed she said would you have really have given her 10,000 baht. I said yes but I was not going to pay her hospital bill. 99.9% plus Thais I know would have just left it and paid bill.

TIT

Bye the way now I probably would just pay bill and leave it since it took over 1 hour of arguing and we almost missed our flight over 100 baht meal.

[udon]

Despite your disbelieve at what I said, I can honestly repeat that my statement is true. I live with Thais and their extended families. I work with Thais. I buy goods from Thais etc etc. I speak nothing but Thai to all these people. I understand the concept of 'face' very well.

But it seems to me that 'losing face' is often used as an excuse for blatant lying, or for providing bad service, or for trying to cheat someone, (Thai and farang) in some way.

That is taking the p*ss quite frankly

Simon

I agree, but being honest might cause a confrontation, which is a big no-no in Thai culture.

'Face' is a PITA in SEAsia.

Never ask for directions in Thailand........ they will tell you anything, except, 'I don't know'

***************

edit: Good example #6

[meadish_sweetball]

It's often obvious when somebody doesn't know directions, if you just pay attention to their body language. The uncertainty usually shines through. If the person in question nods and smiles without really listening to what you are saying, for example.

Also remember many people do not understand you when you speak English (or try to speak Thai).

Make sure you observe closely and when misled, try to make a point of remembering if there was anything different about the person who gave you wrong directions. I also use the method of asking more than one person for directions, as that means you will sooner or later score a person who does know.

The typical indication of a person who knows, is that they will give you specific directions. A person who doesnt know will just point and gets irritated when you ask too many questions or ask for a clarification.

[wasabi]

I love Thailand, The 90% that is right is what draws me in, however I gotta agree "Thai silence" is something you're going to encounter at one point or another. Really you have to have a pretty strong sense of humor and a lot of patience to make it in Thailand, many things are often not what they seem. I don't think it's Thai bashing to notice this phenonmenon or should be maintain a farang silence about it?

[OneeyedJohn]

This silence thing does occur...in many situations. The only way I know to counteract it is to not come on strong, cos then the silence deepens.

[Sing_Sling]

It's unfortunate that even the slightest criique of Thailand or Thais or Thia customs is seen as Thai bashing . . . I guess we could all change TV to a type of Hello Kitty Thailand.

Many non-Thais on this board live here and have their views and opinions, they are valid. criticising something baselessly is ridiculous, but so is defending something on principle.

In my previous job being in charge of APAC for an IT company I had to hold quite a few training sessions and talks/speeches. At the end, at question time . . . nothing . . . I am assuming they all undrstood everything I said?

Now, having my own business in Thailand my workers are trained to ask questions and say something when not all is in order - it's a matter of not wanting to sound negative . . . one more reason why there is a certain lack of creativity here.

Great place, but not perfect - unless you like the Hello Kitty version of Thailand.

[OlRedEyes]

It's unfortunate that even the slightest criique of Thailand or Thais or Thia customs is seen as Thai bashing . . . I guess we could all change TV to a type of Hello Kitty Thailand.

I'd say its only a handful of TV members who cry bashing so often and so quickly. Unfortunately, they're pretty loud and persistent... and annoying.

[chuchok]

It's often obvious when somebody doesn't know directions, if you just pay attention to their body language. The uncertainty usually shines through. If the person in question nods and smiles without really listening to what you are saying, for example.

Also remember many people do not understand you when you speak English (or try to speak Thai).

Make sure you observe closely and when misled, try to make a point of remembering if there was anything different about the person who gave you wrong directions. I also use the method of asking more than one person for directions, as that means you will sooner or later score a person who does know.

The typical indication of a person who knows, is that they will give you specific directions. A person who doesnt know will just point and gets irritated when you ask too many questions or ask for a clarification.

My wife asked a Thai couple directions one day.Bloke said go north,lady said go south.

..we went east.

[Losangels]

Yes it is very frustrating for many Thais not to admit to a mistake.

I know its a cultural thing, heck I find it hard sometimes to admit of mistakes I make at work.

When I first arrived here when I oder a dish in the restaurant the waiter/waitress will say they sold out and it happens every time I order this dish in the same restaurant. It took me a while to find out they never serve this dish eventhough it was on the menu. I questioned the waiter about this and could not get an answer. It used to bother me that they lied to me but I later found out that he/she was trying to be polite by not saying that they do not have this dish.

What I find disturbing though is when you question a doctor or nurse about a medical problem or treatment they don't necessary give you correct or complete answer. To question a medical treatment that was performed by a Thai doctor is normally not done. The doctor took it personally when asked some question that implied whether the treatment was necessary.

[jomama]

Some say this is no big deal...but the guy went to a professional restaurant and was served the wrong food and drink, a 100 percent error rate.

Ya'll can explain and speculate and justify all you want, but the fact is that the restuarant was seriously wrong and that's supposed to be their profession -- to serve the food and drink they purport to be able to deliver. To complain is not Thai bashing, Thais do it too. How would you like to grow up in Thailand getting poor service and shoddy products? Many Thai people are sick of it too, and that is why (if they can afford it) they will pay more than it costs in the West for decent products and service.

They will complain and they will send food back; the laws of physics, good manners and good service actually do apply in Thailand. So don't apologize for those who can't be bothered to even know what they are.

[higgy88]

I've been to plenty of restaurants and have been told "mi mee" lot's of times when ordering something. I agree with the comments about Thais not wanting to lose face, but I never thought that also applied to having or not having a certain dish in a restaurant. They never seemed to have had a problem telling me to order something else. Maybe I'm just going to the wrong kind of cheapo Thai restaurants. Maybe I should try more expensive places so I can get something I don't want.

[GuestHouse]

I've managed professional (university educated) Thais for over twelve years in Thailand, and I'm currently managing a team of professional Thais here in Rome.

While I disagree with Simon's statement that "Thai people are unable to admit a mistake" my disagreement with the statement is only with it's generalization.

My own observation is that the vast majority of Thais I know and have worked with have extreme difficulty in admitting a mistake. The reasons why are varied, and I think we've had some good explanations above.

-------

I see we have the usual suspects screaming 'Thai Basher', I don't have time to look now, but I wonder if these are the same people who so often complain of 'Political Correctness' back were they came from.

Silencing alternative views with the shout of "Thai Basher" seems to me to be little more than an attempt at introducing a 'Political Correctness' where a negative view of Thailand is the local 'Non PC'

(Edited to correct spelling)

Edited August 15, 2006 by GuestHouse