Thai Silence

[sbk]

It's often obvious when somebody doesn't know directions, if you just pay attention to their body language. The uncertainty usually shines through. If the person in question nods and smiles without really listening to what you are saying, for example.

Also remember many people do not understand you when you speak English (or try to speak Thai).

Make sure you observe closely and when misled, try to make a point of remembering if there was anything different about the person who gave you wrong directions. I also use the method of asking more than one person for directions, as that means you will sooner or later score a person who does know.

The typical indication of a person who knows, is that they will give you specific directions. A person who doesnt know will just point and gets irritated when you ask too many questions or ask for a clarification.

Meadish has an excellent point here. Many times I have seen a Thai person give someone what I would consider to be a BS answer instead of a straight "No". A Thai person would recognize the situation for what it really was, that the person meant "no" but wasn't saying it straight out and would give up. Most farang don't understand the body language and the context of the BS answer, assume it is just a BS answer and can't understand why the Thai person just doesn't tell them straight out. To the Thai, this is the answer and another Thai person would understand it clearly.

As to getting the wrong drink and the wrong food, well, was Heineken actually on the menu? If so, what's wrong with Asahi? Much better beer anyway. And did you ever think that perhaps your angry reaction to what is essentially a really minor issue was the reason for the Thais unwillingness to tell you that there wasn't any pork either?

[camerata]

IMHO its more complicated than that. I think Thais don’t like to say no and don’t like to not please. Its not just about loosing face.

I agree. It's more about not wanting to be a bearer of bad news and not wanting to upset anyone than about face. Some of my staff won't tell their manager about a problem, even though it isn't their fault. By the time the manager finds out, it's too late to do anything. This is incredibly frustrating at times. I made sure a long time ago that everyone knows I won't get mad or criticize when mistakes are made, so there's no need to stay silent about anything bad. But it still happens sometimes.

[Scott]

I can identify with the OP here. I've had this happen so many times. I am not sure why--I sometimes have chalked it up to language, but that doesn't do it all the time.

I think the key here is to know it can and does happen and to go with the flow. I lose it once in a while, but not too often--the last time was in McDonald's when they screwed up the French Fry order--I mean it is McDonald's and it is French Fries--I don't know how you can do that one, but someone did!

The other one was (and this was the 2nd time it happened). Several of us stopped for beer after work on a Friday afternoon--about 4:00. The restaurant/pub ran out of beer after we had one each! It's a restaurant/pub for G*d's Sake. The first time it was maybe understandable but the 2nd time was a little too much. We just moved on.

I think a lot of workers are turned lose with virtually no training or guidance. Add to that all the other breakdowns in the systems that operate and you have some interesting situations arise.

[meemiathai]

It’s taken years for my wife to say im hungry can we eat instead of are you hungry.

It took me 7 years, just a few days ago I started to realize that by asking me she sometimes is actually trying to say that she is hungry.

BTW, good post.

[2long]

Simon may be laying it on a bit thick, but in general, I agree.

My wife doesn't even like ASKING directions! Get that, I'm driving along and we both know where we need to go. She speaks the lingo and is on the kerbside of the car, but it's me who needs to get out and ask.

Face face face.

However, if we want them to be more like farangs, we'll have to give them fat <deleted>, attitudes and beer allowances. that bit about 90%/10% is spot on!

[Donz]

It's unfortunate that even the slightest criique of Thailand or Thais or Thia customs is seen as Thai bashing . . . I guess we could all change TV to a type of Hello Kitty Thailand.

I'd say its only a handful of TV members who cry bashing so often and so quickly. Unfortunately, they're pretty loud and persistent... and annoying.

So me reacting to someone saying the WHOLE (99%) of thailand never admit there wrong ever?

I see its always the same handful of posters who always come up with extreme figures and stories.

[OneeyedJohn]

If you think a pub/ restaurant running out of beer is bad,

then how about a garage running out of petrol..

Not only does this happen around here frequently, but there is no indication

this is the case, no signs or stuff, the staff are sat around as normal and

when they say "mi me namaan", your question "tamaay maay" is greeted with

a blank look, that up til now i cannot interpret because I'm a farang.

[Donz]

Simon may be laying it on a bit thick, but in general, I agree.

My wife doesn't even like ASKING directions! Get that, I'm driving along and we both know where we need to go. She speaks the lingo and is on the kerbside of the car, but it's me who needs to get out and ask.

Face face face.

However, if we want them to be more like farangs, we'll have to give them fat <deleted>, attitudes and beer allowances. that bit about 90%/10% is spot on!

Yeah i think your post is pretty accurate

[sbk]

Simon may be laying it on a bit thick, but in general, I agree.

My wife doesn't even like ASKING directions! Get that, I'm driving along and we both know where we need to go. She speaks the lingo and is on the kerbside of the car, but it's me who needs to get out and ask.

Face face face.

However, if we want them to be more like farangs, we'll have to give them fat <deleted>, attitudes and beer allowances. that bit about 90%/10% is spot on!

My husband won't ask directions either. Yeah, he's a guy and we all know guys don't like to ask directions but he said that especially when we are out in the country that he doesn't like to ask directions because he's afraid someone will steer us to the middle of nowhere and steal our car. I've always wondered, how often does that sort of thing happen?

And btw, you can keep your fat arse/attitude comment to yourself, thanks. Mine is quite slender and far more so than many western guys I see around. So, please mind your manners, thanks.

[ZZZ]

Why do farangs expect Thais to behave like farangs?

This is Thailand, here when someone have made an obvious mistake they know it, you know it, they know you know it and you know they know it, so what's the problem? Usually a nice hint will fix, if possible, whatever whent wrong.

Why do farangs always make a big production of someone being wrong?

Here in Thailand it's us farangs behaving different, not the other way around.

[Donz]

Simon may be laying it on a bit thick, but in general, I agree.

My wife doesn't even like ASKING directions! Get that, I'm driving along and we both know where we need to go. She speaks the lingo and is on the kerbside of the car, but it's me who needs to get out and ask.

Face face face.

However, if we want them to be more like farangs, we'll have to give them fat <deleted>, attitudes and beer allowances. that bit about 90%/10% is spot on!

My husband won't ask directions either. Yeah, he's a guy and we all know guys don't like to ask directions but he said that especially when we are out in the country that he doesn't like to ask directions because he's afraid someone will steer us to the middle of nowhere and steal our car. I've always wondered, how often does that sort of thing happen?

And btw, you can keep your fat arse/attitude comment to yourself, thanks. Mine is quite slender and far more so than many western guys I see around. So, please mind your manners, thanks.

So in other words you have a nice arse..... Hey your a female right??

[sbk]

Simon may be laying it on a bit thick, but in general, I agree.

My wife doesn't even like ASKING directions! Get that, I'm driving along and we both know where we need to go. She speaks the lingo and is on the kerbside of the car, but it's me who needs to get out and ask.

Face face face.

However, if we want them to be more like farangs, we'll have to give them fat <deleted>, attitudes and beer allowances. that bit about 90%/10% is spot on!

My husband won't ask directions either. Yeah, he's a guy and we all know guys don't like to ask directions but he said that especially when we are out in the country that he doesn't like to ask directions because he's afraid someone will steer us to the middle of nowhere and steal our car. I've always wondered, how often does that sort of thing happen?

And btw, you can keep your fat arse/attitude comment to yourself, thanks. Mine is quite slender and far more so than many western guys I see around. So, please mind your manners, thanks.

So in other words you have a nice arse..... Hey your a female right??

My husband thinks so And I thought you knew I was female, after all this time, Donz, I am hurt

[Donz]

Simon may be laying it on a bit thick, but in general, I agree.

My wife doesn't even like ASKING directions! Get that, I'm driving along and we both know where we need to go. She speaks the lingo and is on the kerbside of the car, but it's me who needs to get out and ask.

Face face face.

However, if we want them to be more like farangs, we'll have to give them fat <deleted>, attitudes and beer allowances. that bit about 90%/10% is spot on!

My husband won't ask directions either. Yeah, he's a guy and we all know guys don't like to ask directions but he said that especially when we are out in the country that he doesn't like to ask directions because he's afraid someone will steer us to the middle of nowhere and steal our car. I've always wondered, how often does that sort of thing happen?

And btw, you can keep your fat arse/attitude comment to yourself, thanks. Mine is quite slender and far more so than many western guys I see around. So, please mind your manners, thanks.

So in other words you have a nice arse..... Hey your a female right??

My husband thinks so And I thought you knew I was female, after all this time, Donz, I am hurt

I was 99% sure you where female, but i was just saying that just incase i was wrong. didnt want to accidently say it to a guy...

[Charma]

Have experienced this too, but after a while I started to recognise that "awkward" smile that tends to go with the situation.

However, this culturally based reluctance to upset people does exist elsewhere. The Brits do display similar behaviour. You're sitting in a restaurant and have just finished a mediocre or poor meal. Everyone has sat at the table moaning about the quality of the food or service. The waiter/waitress comes over and asks, "How was everything?". All at the table respond "Fine thanks".

I do think UK attitudes are changing more to those found in Europe and the US, where there is much more willingness to point out mistakes and firmly complain.

I think of the Thai trait along the lines of a wish to be polite and keep everyone happy rather than anything else. It is our misinterpretation of this behaviour that causes the problem. As SBK said, if our response is to get angry about it, that is unlikely to result in them being more open next time!

edit for typo

Edited August 15, 2006 by Charma

[PeaceBlondie]

It can happen anywhere, but more in some places than others, here and elsewhere. I landed in Nicaragua and my hosts, supporters of the Sandinista movement (nearly Communists), took me to a Mexican restaurant that didn't wasn't open, then to another Mexican restaurant that had no white cheese, no corn tacos, and no beer! My hosts both moaned that the socialist economy of Nicargua badly needed some capitalism!!

My Thai partner will not even ask for directions inside a big shop. I say, "Can you ask a salesclerk where they sell that item?" Big silence.

Mexicans are even worse, generally, about giving good directions, than Thais do.

The best physician I ever met in Thailand is Dr. Sophon in Hua Hin, who flatly said, "I have no idea what is wrong with you." I taught my M1 students that "I don't know" is often the best answer. But they don't tell their Thai teachers, "Mai kojai."

There is one phrase I have learned in four languages now: "We don't have; there is now."

[IMA_FARANG]

I have often been in restaurants where they have run out of food and not bothered to tell me. They either "forget" one of the dishes, bring a wrong dish or even spend time going out shopping for the missing ingredients with a simple "sakru na ka, sakru na ka" after a long long wait.

Last Sunday my Thai girlfriend and I went for a meal at a Japanese restaurant in Siam Paragon. I ordered a dish with pork and a Heineken Beer. The waitress came with an Asahai Beer and started to pour it out. My girlfriend complained that we ordered Heineken and the waitress replied that they don't serve Heineken. We asked as to why they didn't tell us that in the first place only to be met with a smile and no explanation. I joked with my girlfriend when she had received her food and a good 5 minutes later i hadn't received mine and said something like " They'll probably serve me chicken saying that they had run out of pork". Imagine my face when that happened!!!!! I started to get quite angry and complain when another waitress came and admitted they had made a mistake.

Yesterday I went to a well known restaurant and ordered a simple Pad Krapao Gai. I received some kind of chicken curry and when I pointed out that there was no basel in my food the waiter simply said that they didn't have any basel so they made this dish for me.

Why don't they have the guts to tell you that they have sold out or don't have the ingredients.

Does this just happen to me or do you others have similar experiences?

There are good things and bad things about living in Thailand. There are a lot of cultural differences which you can either get used to, or spend all your time complaining about (without much use in complaining about them.) One of the things you have just hit on is the fact that most Thais don't like to admit they made a mistale. It has a lot to do with tje concept of "face". It isn't only for their benefit they also hate to admit to you when you are incorrect, because to say to you that you have made a mistake also makes you lose "face". The only thing I can say is you just have to learn to accept what is done the way it is done. I have been coming to Thailand for 30 years on and off, have a lot of Thai friends, and I am still learning the ways of Thai behavior and standards. Just have patience and try to keep a sense of humor and take the good and bad of Thailand together.

[Donz]

I never make mistakes

[Tywais]

I never make mistakes

Then where's this? > .

Edited August 15, 2006 by tywais

[tourleadersi]

I never make mistakes

You won't have a problem here then mate, you'll have more face than Blue Whale!

Perhaps the resort of Phuket could hire you during the rainy season? You could go down there and bend over whenever they needed the sun to shine?

[Spit the Dog]

There is a saying in English that goes, "No news is good news."

Well in Thailand no news generally means "not good news."

Have you ever been to a job interview, tried to book a flight through a travel agent or even attempted to get a date with the girl behind the perfume counter in one of the shopping malls, and heard the dreaded words," I'll call you tomorrow?"

The next day arrives and as you suspected, you still haven't heard anything. What this more or less interprets as, is - "You ain't got the job," We don't have any flights and we have absolutely no idea if any will become available" or "In your dreams, fatboy."

[petedk]

Why do farangs expect Thais to behave like farangs?

This is Thailand, here when someone have made an obvious mistake they know it, you know it, they know you know it and you know they know it, so what's the problem? Usually a nice hint will fix, if possible, whatever whent wrong.

Why do farangs always make a big production of someone being wrong?

Here in Thailand it's us farangs behaving different, not the other way around.

Is it us farangs behaving differently? I don't always make a big issue if something goes wrong. In fact I often take the "mai pen rai" attitude and accept the mistake but sometimes I really look forward to a nice meal only to be dispointed because of silly mistakes.

I know Thais (and people of all nationalities) make mistakes and I am by no means a Thai basher. I love Thailand and have many thai friends. I just posted this topic to find out if other farangs have the same experience.

I can also add that I often Thai food at the local restaurant and sometimes have a beer with the food. If they are short of anything they will tell me shortly after ordering, giving me a chance to order something different. I think the cases that I mentioned tend to be in bigger well known restaurant chains where the staff are probably more distant from management and kitchen staff.

I have completely stopped going to a Japanese restaurant at the Emporium because they made mistakes almost everytime we went there whereas we are completely satisfied with other branches of the same chain. The mistakes are not language related as my Thai wife (not ex-bar girl) who is well educated in finance always orders the food even though I speak Thai.

[pukkagent]

I have often been in restaurants where they have run out of food and not bothered to tell me. They either "forget" one of the dishes, bring a wrong dish or even spend time going out shopping for the missing ingredients with a simple "sakru na ka, sakru na ka" after a long long wait.

Last Sunday my Thai girlfriend and I went for a meal at a Japanese restaurant in Siam Paragon. I ordered a dish with pork and a Heineken Beer. The waitress came with an Asahai Beer and started to pour it out. My girlfriend complained that we ordered Heineken and the waitress replied that they don't serve Heineken. We asked as to why they didn't tell us that in the first place only to be met with a smile and no explanation. I joked with my girlfriend when she had received her food and a good 5 minutes later i hadn't received mine and said something like " They'll probably serve me chicken saying that they had run out of pork". Imagine my face when that happened!!!!! I started to get quite angry and complain when another waitress came and admitted they had made a mistake.

Yesterday I went to a well known restaurant and ordered a simple Pad Krapao Gai. I received some kind of chicken curry and when I pointed out that there was no basel in my food the waiter simply said that they didn't have any basel so they made this dish for me.

Why don't they have the guts to tell you that they have sold out or don't have the ingredients.

Does this just happen to me or do you others have similar experiences?

I live in Thailand now, and the amount of times that something similar to that has happened, is ridiculous.

I ordered ADSL, and I not only speak reasonably Thai, but I had a local there to make sure I got the right thing.

My landlord ordered sodding UBC, and was there when it was being put in. I couldn't tell the lads to sod off because they just stuck it in without asking, and they actually stood through part of my roof.

He KNEW he'd made a mistake, and never once has apologised to my face. I said a lot of swear words, and had to take a walk to the 7/11.

It's the Thai way with rude Thai people, because when someone takes the mickey out of me, or does something in such a manner, I don't forget, and they don't get my custom again. how british of me.

Like this morning, in a new gym, they charged me double, even though I knew that a day pass was only 50 baht, but they took the sign down after I saw it, when we were both at the desk, and then they all stood in the corner of the gym looking at me like I was an alien, and talking in my direction. I'm a reasonably fit person, but I'm nothing special, but these guys were walking around like they were tigers or something, and they were all 'shirts off, sweating everywhere without wiping it'.

I said thank you to the lad on reception, who didn't even have the courtesy to speak back, but I know this is the exception rather than the usual. I just got wound up because I hate the whole, "lets take the piss out of the farang". but when you're arguing over the difference between 100 and 50 baht, then I guess you're a bit desperate...

I think in restaurants, they just dont want to lose the custom at all, because it's so cut throat. The restaurant I go to reguarly where I am is brilliant, and they tell you if they're out and apologise, kow towing so much that after a while you do the same thing! I think Thai's in general are quite nice, but I have experienced the Thai Silence.

Speak no English, can no blame me attitude. At least I got to watch the few first series episodes of Desperate Housewives... Until it rained!

[number6]

I have completely stopped going to a Japanese restaurant at the Emporium because they made mistakes almost everytime we went there whereas we are completely satisfied with other branches of the same chain. The mistakes are not language related as my Thai wife (not ex-bar girl) who is well educated in finance always orders the food even though I speak Thai.

im confused what on earth has it to do with subject in this thread weather your wife is or is not an ex bar girl if this was a thread talking about other things it might be relevent so why say anytihng at all on that subject - seems a bit defensive for no reason whatever

[wilko]

No THai people like confrontatrion...I've waited for hours at a restaurant for my fried fish only to be offered it as I left and paid my bill. It is impossible to get anyone to say what is really going on.

[qualtrough]

I have completely stopped going to a Japanese restaurant at the Emporium because they made mistakes almost everytime we went there whereas we are completely satisfied with other branches of the same chain. The mistakes are not language related as my Thai wife (not ex-bar girl) who is well educated in finance always orders the food even though I speak Thai.

im confused what on earth has it to do with subject in this thread weather your wife is or is not an ex bar girl if this was a thread talking about other things it might be relevent so why say anytihng at all on that subject - seems a bit defensive for no reason whatever

I think the poster's adding that fact is entirely appropriate. While regrettable, the Thai staff would almost certainly deal differently with someone they thought was a bar girl compared to someone they thought was not. A significant portion of forum members have GFs or Wives who are ex-bargirls, and I think that some of the problems they report are directly related to that fact. Thais know a bar girl from a hundred paces and will treat them accordingly in many cases. Please don't flame me, I am not saying that is correct behavior, just a fact.

As far as the complaint of the OP, I haven't run into that. When I go somewhere and order something I am always told if it is not in stock. Happens all the time, but some restaurants are worse than others. A sure sign is if the joint has one of those multi-page menus with every item imaginable. The odds of them having everything are slim. Odds are also bad in tourist areas during the off-season. The cheese that was readily available when tourists were packing the joint disappears when there are only a handful of tourists around. I can't recall being given another dish or beverage, with the possible exception of a Coke for Pepsi, or vv. Even that doesn't happen very often.

[backflip]

"my Thai wife (not ex-bar girl)..."

You know that you're not in Kansas any more when you have to clarify your response with "my wife wasn't a prostitute".

[TRIPxCORE]

Why do farangs expect Thais to behave like farangs?

This is Thailand, here when someone have made an obvious mistake they know it, you know it, they know you know it and you know they know it, so what's the problem? Usually a nice hint will fix, if possible, whatever whent wrong.

Why do farangs always make a big production of someone being wrong?

Here in Thailand it's us farangs behaving different, not the other way around.

This isnt a case of as a farang, I want Thais to act like me. This is all about correcting things that are wrong. Like some of these examples have pointed out. If a restaurant doesnt have a certain item, then tell the person. If you as a customer order one thing and get something completely different, you should be able to tell them about it and have it corrected. This is about getting wrong things done correctly. It mostly applies when it's a business that is wrong about something and you are the customer than has been wronged. You have every right to make some noise until it gets done to your satisfaction or else you can take your money elsewhere.

No one should be allowed to hide behind an excuse, be it a Thai person or anyone else for that matter. This isnt something where I only hold Thais to this standard but they are the only ones that do it to me for the most part. Things that are wrong factually need to be corrected. In order to be corrected, attention must be brought to it. This is the only way. Sweeping it under the carpet because you're worried about someone's "face" is ridiculous.

[pantarei]

Why don’t Thais admit there is a problem? IS BRITISH PETROLEUM RUN BY SIR SOMCHAI?

“BP Amoco took a step toward recognizing reality today when it released its final Fatal Accident Investigation Report on the March 23 Texas City explosion that killed 15 workers and injured 170. The report recognized a number of critical systemic problems and lapses in BP's safety "culture."”

“BP has backed down significantly from its interim report when it blamed employees for the explosion "...

http://spewingforth.blogspot.com/2005/12/b...a-proposes.html

“BP's recent closure of its North Slope pipeline because of corrosion should come as no surprise. Just this past March, a BP Alaskan pipeline leaked (due to corrosion) some 270,000 gallons of oil onto the mainland, the largest North Slope leak in history. (The leak went undetected for at least five days.) What preceded both March's leakage and the recent pipeline closure is a pattern of criminal negligence regarding its pipeline corrosion.”

Chuck Hamel, longtime BP employee advocate, recently told NBC that "a dozen past and current BP employees came to him claiming they'd been told to cut back on a chemical put into the system to retard rust and corrosion, and to falsify records. A federal official confirms that many of these workers have also talked to the FBI."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/8/9/15371/90195

[Douggie Style]

Ok, I am going to sit on the fence here (with my great fat (built for comfort and fence sitting) farang arse).

firstly I agree with GuestHouse that in my experience I have found there is a tendency for Thai's to not want to admit mistakes. A tendency, some have apologised (at work) before. It can be maddening, doubt you can change it, so (Simon) best roll with it.

secondly my Thai partner, absolutley gets stuck into bad service and incorrect dishes. No smiley smiley, don't make waves, she is FIERCE!

Calls them over, goes through practically every ingredient until they get it right. Same with the bill, every minute item is checked, rechecked and calculated. Most times there is some small mistake.

She never gets any blow back, in fact they seem to run around after her, so it makes me wonder about different methods of getting service in Thailand. I have noticed she speaks very calmly but looks very scary> anyone else have similar experience?

[kerryk]

I have completely stopped going to a Japanese restaurant at the Emporium because they made mistakes almost everytime we went there whereas we are completely satisfied with other branches of the same chain. The mistakes are not language related as my Thai wife (not ex-bar girl) who is well educated in finance always orders the food even though I speak Thai.

im confused what on earth has it to do with subject in this thread weather your wife is or is not an ex bar girl if this was a thread talking about other things it might be relevent so why say anytihng at all on that subject - seems a bit defensive for no reason whatever

I think the poster's adding that fact is entirely appropriate. While regrettable, the Thai staff would almost certainly deal differently with someone they thought was a bar girl compared to someone they thought was not. A significant portion of forum members have GFs or Wives who are ex-bargirls, and I think that some of the problems they report are directly related to that fact. Thais know a bar girl from a hundred paces and will treat them accordingly in many cases. Please don't flame me, I am not saying that is correct behavior, just a fact.

As far as the complaint of the OP, I haven't run into that. When I go somewhere and order something I am always told if it is not in stock. Happens all the time, but some restaurants are worse than others. A sure sign is if the joint has one of those multi-page menus with every item imaginable. The odds of them having everything are slim. Odds are also bad in tourist areas during the off-season. The cheese that was readily available when tourists were packing the joint disappears when there are only a handful of tourists around. I can't recall being given another dish or beverage, with the possible exception of a Coke for Pepsi, or vv. Even that doesn't happen very often.

The diversity of this country is amazing at times.

Last night I was at a well known Thai restaurant in Chiang Mai.

I have seen members of the royal family at the restaurant and they arrived in an escorted caravan with security forces. It is a good restaurant and frequented by mostly hi so Thais.

I was there last night with six bar girls. The service was excellent and attentive. It started raining and they brought a huge umbrella to cover our table.

We were the last customers in the place and instead of making us feel uncomfortable they were very pleasantly offering to bring more ice, empty ash trays and happily took our orders for more beer and food with no mention that the restaurant was actually closed.

The waiters and waitresses had to run in the rain to get our orders.

When we decided to leave each of us was escorted out by a waiter carrying an umbrella.

While we were there one of the girls got a call from her Farang husband in Farang land and she left the table so she could talk to him without the noise of the other diners and a waiter stood over her with an umbrella until the call was finished. The call was filled with, “tee luck I love you and I no look at other man and of course I am home darling I not go out I love only you.” When she returned to the table she got a round of applause from the wait staff and our group on being such a good actress.