Divorcing My Thai Wife

[BigA]

I have my Thai wife agreeing to a no hassle divorce.

She wants 50/50 custody on our 2 year old daughter.

I already temporarily placed our daughter with my family in the US and was able to get her out of the country legally. (I had a consent to travel abroad form from the Amphur by my wife.)

Not having parental power and having to share is not good enough for me.

My wife has indicated she might give me full custody but I need to present the gist of the agreement to her in Thai langauge. I am willing to allow reasonable visitation etc. biut to maintian parental authority and decision making on where the child lives, is schooled, etc.

I know I already have the upper hand because my child is already in the US but I want control If I bring my daughter back here.

Any ideas?

[simon43]

Just a quick question. If this child was the result of your relationship, (ie you are her natural father and your wife is her natural mother), what gives you the right to deny your wife 50/50 custody of HER daughter?

Simon

[BigA]

I'm mainly looking for help, I'm working and operating towards the best interests of the child. The wife abandoned the child with me and ran away to work in the bar. The wife is agreeing in principle to granting me custody if I can present an agreement she can accept. I am a professional person in possession of adequate means.

Any rights I have are those which I am sucessfully able to execute.

[simon43]

So let me try to understand all this - based on the minimal information provided.

You married a Thai woman and then had a duaghter together. Then she abandoned both you and her baby because she preferred to work in a bar? Is that correct?

Seems to me that either this bar is paying her in gold bars or there is something wrong with your skills as a loving husband....

What reason would she prefer to work in a bar as opposed to staying with her husband and daughter?

I'm just guessing here. Did you want to live in the US, whilst she preferred to live in Thailand?

I really need more information here.

Simon

[krikrik]

Wouldn't it be best to discuss all this with a Thai-based US lawyer ?

Not clear on exactly what you are asking for here. Other people's experiences ?

Hope you can find a good solution for the kid.

[visarunner]

I had friends who paid their divorced wifes "huge amounts of money" to get official custody of the child.

May be this is working in this case as well.

[jbowman1993]

I wouldn't ask for legal advice from this bunch. You'll most likely get the slow witted criticisms you've been seeing thus far.

When you need legal advice, talk to a lawyer.

[Scott]

I don't understand why some people think they have the right to be so completely judgemental. Big A is asking a question--I don't know that he needs to have a ton of negative comments on his ability to be a husband etc.

Big A: Yes, you need to talk to a lawyer about the laws in both countries surrounding custody and the international laws about it. Here's part of the problem: Basically, neithere of you are in physical custody of the child, if you are here in Thailand as is your ex and your child is with the grandparents in the States. This can throw a whole other wrench in the works, because from a legal point of view you have also abandoned your child.

Thus the situation is now about equal between you and your ex--from a legal point of view.

A lawyer can help sort this out as to which court has the greatest jurisdiction etc.

Best of luck to you.

[terry57]

mate im not going to mess around here,

you might have been married to a thai but you got me thinking how much experience you have with thailand ?

i'll tell you strait up that you got big problems because divorces with thai or farang are a bloody big drama and in thailand things can get very nasty.

dont think she's going to bolt back to the bar and let you just wander of with the kid with out paying her a <deleted> load of money ?

dont work that way in los mate.

bottom line is get your arse off to the best lawyer in town as if you are a professional person you have the ready's to pay him and mate its going to cost you a <deleted> load.

good luck

cheers

[alexth]

Just a quick question. If this child was the result of your relationship, (ie you are her natural father and your wife is her natural mother), what gives you the right to deny your wife 50/50 custody of HER daughter?

Simon

The fact that the kid could get proper education in the states. BTW, that "HER daughter" thing up there sounds a little bit unfair, despite the thai theory, I tend to think that the best parent is the one that gives a ###### about you and is not using you to obtain a large amount of money from the other one. It's not like "OK, fine, take the baby and make me rich!" Guess you didn't woke up in a very good mood this morning, Simon

[BigA]

I've got connections to a Thai lawyer on this one. Most likely I will exploit this avenue

Just fishing for more info trying to make the best decision.

Sure it's great for my little girl to learn English, live in a stable family environment but its only temporay in that I will raise her myself there in the US with the help of my family if I can't get custody or here where I have a different support network if I can and allowing some kind of rasonable visitation.

I just can't subject my daughter to becoming just another ATM machine to be sent off to work in the bar by the family, or being condemend into the underclass of this society when so much more opportunity is possible.

Cultural differences aside, now that I have the upper hand I intend to get what I want. My assets are already legally shielded from my wife.

She has agreed in priniple to a no a contest divorce the only thing we are working out now is child custody.

I'd like to see some typical wording on what works in this country where one party gives up parental power but still is awarded reasonable visitation.

[simon43]

Maybe I did get out the wrong side of bed this morning But I don't take it as read that raising a child in the US automatically is a better solution for the child. There are two cultures to consider here. The fact that one parent may not agree with how the child would be raised if she were to remain in Thailand, does not make it 'wrong' for that child to be raised here.

And I agree with the other posters. You should be speaking to a lawyer. Regardless of how you have 'shielded' your assets (whether in Thailand or the US), your wife is entitled to 50% of them - probably more if it goes through a US court.

Good luck...

Simon

[GuestHouse]

I think there are a few issues that need to be addressed. Firstly and formost what is best for the child?

Once again today I find myself in partial agreement with what Simon is saying; yes I agree there is no intrinsic reason why an upbringing in Thailand would not be as good as that in the US, but keep im mind the circumstances of the child's mother - The OP tells us she has returned to Thailand to work in a bar, (let's cut out the pretty Dancing - Working as a Prostitute). The OP is concerned that his daughter will wind up in the same situation as her mother.

Very valid and serious concerns that would undboutedly be listened to by a US Court.

Add to that the fact that the mother has deserted the child to return to work as a Prostitute and I think it is fare to say that the father has a water tight case for Sole child custody.

CUSTODY

My advice to the OP on that point would be take legal advice and be absolutely honest with your lawyer - Take his/her advice on using the mother's behaviour against her. But what ever you do go for full custody with court protection of the child against the mother's behaviour.

Why is that important - Because if there is a dispute in the future you have solid court records to back your claims for what is best for the child.

It think you'll also find that it provides you with finacial protection too - You need your money for the good of the child.

FACT 1. Courts very rarely give fathers custody, but they will certainly do so if the child's mother is placing the child at risk.

FACT 2. Courts are extremely sypathetic to fathers where the mother has deserted the child - In the same way it is assumed the mother has a natural right to raise her children, she will be viewed as an oga for having deserted a child _ Use that to your advantage.

If you are facing a US court then use all the moral rules, life in America, stable family support etc that you can muster - Take your lawyer's advice.

CITIZENSHIP

Get your daughter's Citizenship sorted out while you can, both her US and her Thai citizenship.

Get this done early so you don't get into being asked to pay out for your wife's assistance later on.

CONTACT WITH MOTHER

If it was me I would be cutting all contact as part of getting Sole Custody.

I would not be admitting this in seeking sole custody but that would be my aim. I would certainly be asking for vistitation with the mother to be under supervision and I would not ever allow the child to visit Thailand with her mother until the child is well into its teens, and then under strict written agreement with respect to the time and length of visits. I would never let the child be in Thailand without me being in Thailand.

AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - I would never let the child enter Thailand on her Thai passport - ALWAYS use her US passport when entering Thailand.

FINACIAL SETTLEMENT

I would be extremely surprised if you have to make any settlement on your wife. She's deserted a child and returned to prostitution - Your lawyer will have a field day with that.

At the very least you can argue all wealth needs to be maintained in your hands for the good of the child - Exactlty the same argument women use to secure houses/incomes etc from husbands when they divorce with children.

I'd look to making a cash settlement with strings attached - The strings being a non contested divorce, that nevertheless records her behaviour AND your wife's provision of the necessary signatures/paperwork to secure your daughter's Thai Citizenship.

Edited August 15, 2006 by GuestHouse

[nonthaburial]

Sorry people but I cannot read anything here that indicates that the legal mother abandonded her daughter in the USA and fled back toThailand to be a bar girl ! I read it that the mother and father are in Thailand and the father shipped the daughter back to the USA for "safe keeping" so to speak.

[GuestHouse]

Sorry people but I cannot read anything here that indicates that the legal mother abandonded her daughter in the USA and fled back toThailand to be a bar girl ! I read it that the mother and father are in Thailand and the father shipped the daughter back to the USA for "safe keeping" so to speak.

I don't think anyone is suggesting the mother abandoned the child in the US, but the OP has told us that the mother abandoned the child, see this from his secone post (Post #3):

The wife abandoned the child with me and ran away to work in the bar.

In my response I am assuming that he is seeking divorce infront of a US Court. I believe that would be his best option in terms of protecting the child.

I think that seeking a divorce in Thailand could lead to the Thai court instructing that the child be returned to Thailand.

[Charma]

You need legal advice from lawyers in both countries. Some posters have I think missed your point that, if possible and if you have control, you want to raise the child in Thailand. So people do not need to comment on the "which country is best" issue.

But as Guesthouse pointed out, the citizenship of your daughter is key to this. If you do not get a solid agreement in LOS that you feel happy with, you will still need to defend keeping your daughter in the US. The big question is, would a US court consider that it has juresdiction to decide the fate of a Thai national? A good lawyer is needed for this issue.

You are obviously looking out for the best interestes of your daughter and want her to maintain some sort of contact with her mother. I think you are right to get all the advice you can to ensure that you get full legal control over things if you stay in Thailand as you cannot predict what your wife or her family may do in the future. I think it would be worth at this stage paying for the best possible legal advice you can afford.

[Thaipwriter]

My pals wife recently tried to sell him custody of thier two kids. He used to put her on speaker phone and we would listen in amazement at her demands for 20 million baht for them.

He eventually gave her 1 million cash and a vehicle for a divorce and custody of the kids.

Sounds like you should follow his example.

She will take the money rather than 50% custody. No morals to stop her I reckon

[sriracha john]

I feel very, very sorry for the daughter caught up in all of this...

It's a shame that (taking everything posted here at face value), she really doesn't have anyone ideally suited to raising her.

[alexth]

I feel very, very sorry for the daughter caught up in all of this...

It's a shame that (taking everything posted here at face value), she really doesn't have anyone ideally suited to raising her.

Maybe you should adopt her...maybe you are the suited one. Am I missing something here or you just made an incompetent out of the kid's father?

[BambinA]

/edit

Edited August 15, 2006 by BambinA

[toddy]

I've got connections to a Thai lawyer on this one. Most likely I will exploit this avenue

Just fishing for more info trying to make the best decision.

Sure it's great for my little girl to learn English, live in a stable family environment but its only temporay in that I will raise her myself there in the US with the help of my family if I can't get custody or here where I have a different support network if I can and allowing some kind of rasonable visitation.

I just can't subject my daughter to becoming just another ATM machine to be sent off to work in the bar by the family, or being condemend into the underclass of this society when so much more opportunity is possible.

Cultural differences aside, now that I have the upper hand I intend to get what I want. My assets are already legally shielded from my wife.

She has agreed in priniple to a no a contest divorce the only thing we are working out now is child custody.

I'd like to see some typical wording on what works in this country where one party gives up parental power but still is awarded reasonable visitation.

Quite right. I would do everything I could to bring this kiddy up in the US. I took my son back from LOS to UK and he is growing up here with a Dad. The wife is permitted and tolerated around here when she wants to visit. There is only one qualified if it has to be only one and I think in this case, any rational human being would see who that is, in both our cases. My son will never grow up in a second rate manner. I do not know the legalities of this but what you said before about rights applies to me too. I will execute exactly what is necessary for this child to grow up and lead a right kind of life. I think you should do the same legally if possible, illegally if not.

[Charma]

Again, some of you are missing the posters point. He stated he wishes to bring up the child HIMSELF in LOS if it is possible to have legal control of the whole situation. If that cannot be done, then he will go back to US to care for the child.

Toddy - is your post stating that a good upbringing in LOS is always going to be second rate, or was that just in relation to your own situation?

[mumbojumbo]

You married a bar girl, knocked her up, you had a kid together, maybe, she opted to go back in the trade, you elected to transport your child back to the US. Did you bother to go to the Embassy or Consulate, and have a US baby born abroad registered? You probably did, since you got her a passport to travel there, which must be approved by the mother. Everyone says get a lawyer=why. The trollop wants only money and you can agree with her on the amount by yourself. She doesn't give a crap about the kid, she is only looking for money. Don't let the scumbag lawyers get a part of the deal.

[simon43]

As with many of these postings, we only have one side of the story. It's impossible to make a valid judgement without hearing from his wife. That is only fair.

Simon

[BigA]

My child is a legit US citizen with a CRBA and a US passport. The wife would not make time to get the Thai passport B4 I left. I'd still like to get one. I may live and raise her in LOS, or we may live in the USA or possibly another country. I am going to present a custody agreement in Thai to the wife and see if I can get her sign. Apparently the issue of custody is one way or the other to either party as part of the divorce.

[Dragonman]

My pals wife recently tried to sell him custody of thier two kids. He used to put her on speaker phone and we would listen in amazement at her demands for 20 million baht for them.

He eventually gave her 1 million cash and a vehicle for a divorce and custody of the kids.

Sounds like you should follow his example.

She will take the money rather than 50% custody. No morals to stop her I reckon

Sounds like the best idea! Why waste time with lawyers, etc. The law is pretty straightforward. Get her to sign the full custody, with limited visitation rights, agreement when you settle the voluntary divorce at the Registration Office. All quite legal. If she doesn't like the deal the child is in the USA and Thailand has no laws regarding international parental child abduction.

[BigA]

This is an old thead that I pretty much left hanging.

My daughter and I won this case. Thai lawyer was 35K baht including continuing the case once, plus tack on travel cost for me for me (us) for two court appearances, children's court and then the judge. No financial transfer to the BG in the settlement.

Ladies at the amphur were freaked out that the soon to be ex was not getting anything from the farang and initially balked at the order, lady with me on my side then spoke to them privately while the BG was taking a series of phone calls and then they complied with the filing even staying after normal quiting time to finish the job as a lot of the paperwork was screwed up.

Next day we were out of the country!

I must admit though I has alot of help from Thais sympathetic to our cause.

"No man is an island"

[ThaiPauly]

Good to hear that you managed to resolve the situation

[blizzard]

CONDOMS, CONDOMS, AND MORE CONDOMS WHEN INTERACTING WITH THAI BARGURLS.

THEY DONT MAKE GOOD MOTHERS WESTERN STYLE, LIKE BEAVER CLEAVERS MOM!

[mellow1]

let her make a demand on paper on how much money she wants to give you custody of the child. Make sure its signed, then get a divorce in the US showing she is willing to give up custody of her child for a sum of money. I think the divorce will be a breeze and you will not have to pay her one penny.