Driving in Thailand is NOT so bad

[Overandout]

I also understand where the OP is coming from.

I have just arrived back in Bangkok after driving 2,300 kms up to Mae Hong Son and back over the New Year. Most freinds, farang and Thai, said that I was crazy, but actually it was a pleasant drive.

Most of us can only compare our experience with our own countries' driving habits and practices but I wonder how many people here have experienced many other driving cultures?

I lived 10 years in Spain and I can assure any one of you that Thai drivers are considerably more courteous than Spanish driviers, especially in cities. In a traffic jam coming into Chiang Mai last week, four lanes were reduced to one, and as I sat there waiting my turn to move into the successive left hand lanes I watched as the Thai drivers let one car pass into their lane before continuing. I did the same and I was also let in to the left lane , if not by the first car having put on the indicator, by the second without fail. This would NEVER happen in Madrid (indicating to change lanes in Spain is akin to challenging the drivers in the adjacent lane to close up to the vehicle in front of them to prevent you from slotting in infront of them).

In those 2,300 kms on mountain roads, I hade two instances where I had to take evasive action due to other drivers' errors (both where the oncoming vehicle had strayed out of its lane on a tight curve), I don't consider that to be too bad considering it was peak season in the region, and frankly I was expecting this and ready for it on every curve.

Also, I am surprised that so many posters comment that Thailand "cheats" with the traffic death tolls as only fatalities at the scene count. Do you really think that this is limited to Thailand?

Spain certainly does the same, in fact it used to be that road deaths in cities did not count for nationwide road eaths either, only those on the national road network.

Yes, some things annoy me about Thai driving, but no-one forces me to drive here, I do it because its a great way to see the country.

[BradinAsia]

The idea that in Thailand cars are built to a lower standard is a popular old wives tale on ThaiVisa

but it has little connection to reality. I used to work for Honda company and can assure you Hondas

built in Marysville, Ohio, Saitama, Japan, or Rayong, Thailand are all built to the same standards.

I don't doubt the quality is similar, but as far as standards Your Mileage May Vary. Where this "old wives tale" originates from is not build quality, but the practice of omitting some safety features in vehicles built in the emerging markets. It is clearly evident today in the safety equipment specs of the average vehicle sold in Thailand today.

More importantly, in the years long gone, buying a brand known for it's safety in the First World may not have guaranteed you the same level of protection in other markets. Missing side impact protection bars (verified by peeking under the door panel of one Japanese brand), solid tube replacing the bumper impact shock absorbers, use of lesser gauge metal in non structural areas (that nonetheless contribute to safety as crumple zones), were all practices used to cut costs. My colleague's new locally manufactured Japanese car weighted 30kg less than official weight on the C.M. airport cargo scale, while my new & imported version of the same model was 10kg over. These checks were done in response to a newspaper article (either B.P. or Nation) highlighting the problem at the time, as my colleague was furious at having paid a premium for a 'safe' brand. The negative publicity has diminished this practice .

Sounds like a very amateurish conspiracy theory idea. The 30 kg difference in weight between 2 cars made for different markets hardly proves any thing to a reasonable person.

[Scotssing]

Finally, someone with some sense! I agree with pretty much everything in the OP. Having driven in the USA, as well as some other Asian and Latin American countries, I find driving in Thailand to be just fine. And the stats you quoted are correct. Most of the fatalities in Thailand are on motorcycles. Funny how the Thai-bashers are always quoting that fatality statistic without ever considering the reasons. On any given day--and very similar to the US--I find maybe around 5% of drivers are aggressive jerks. The other 95% are just fine...although something that irritates me even more than the aggressive drivers are the slow and meek drivers. I think some farangs in Thailand may be in that latter category.

Something people aren't willing to admit is that for a country with very little traffic enforcement, the Thais do very well in policing themselves. And yes, this does mean a lot of "common sense" maneuvers which some may find reckless but really is not if everyone understood the unwritten rules of the road. I personally find driving in Thailand to be preferable to driving in the USA and truly dread the day the police start enforcing traffic laws more, such as speeding.

I agree, I moved to Thailand when I was 35 so as I got older I was able to adapt, many Farang that come here and are just too old to adapt.

Been here since 1990 and find driving here is fine, my motor is 9 years old and never had an accident, wife's motor is 5 years old, never had an accident, in fact I've never been involved in an accident in over 24 years of driving here, bikes or cars, maybe I'm just lucky, or like I say, I adapted easier.

On the other hand if I now went back to the UK and started driving, they would probably think I'm a nutter.

If I had come here in my 60's or 70's, I would probably feel different, and moan and whine cos I'd also be unable to adapt .

I think it is temperament not age that allows some Farang drivers to adapt better than others. In the car is the only time I use multiple expletives but the key I find when someone does something inexplicable is to pinch oneself and not get worked up

[Scotssing]

A 3-week visit to India cured me of ever complaning about traffic and drivers in Thailand.

So true, in India I always hire a driver. Still smile when remembering driving on the then newly constructed dual carriageway from Agra to Delhi and charging up the Ambassador to about 70 km per hour only to slam on the brakes as I encountered an Elephant in the outside lane going in the wrong direction straight towards me

[MrY]

Do people really think Thailand is somehow unique in inaccurately reporting traffic fatalities? Many have named countries they consider worse than Thailand. For example India, some Middle Eastern countries, and most African countries seem far more dangerous than Thailand. In Southeast Asia, Vietnam was considered the worst but ironically it may have been because their statistics were more accurate. In the 90s an independent study (by an Australian? agency) polled hospitals in one region of Thailand and put the traffic fatalities at 27,000 while the government reported 18,000 deaths [on the scene of accident as they do]. (A few years later the government targeted a reduction to 10,000 deaths a year in 10 years so naturally the statistics got even worse over the years). Emergency vehicle drivers commonly reported a practice of listing a dead motorist still being alive when sent to hospital as this was less paperwork for the police. In the same report it was mentioned that car fatalities per capita were seemingly on par with the safest countries in the World due to less cars, mileage, slower speeds (!), etc. Essentially they were confessing that even if your numbers are correct, making sense of it all is a different story altogether.

Knock On Wood, but personally I've managed to drive hundreds of thousands of kilometers in Thailand without a serious accident myself. I have spent 3 days in hospital having been hit by a speeding bike while I was stationary and I have been in several taxi accidents as a passenger, yet spread over 20+ years I can't consider driving in Thailand overly dangerous as long as you're the one in control (or more accurately "in control"). I've racked up over 100 countries visited [plus many overseas territories and such] so I may have an idea whereof I'm talking about.

One's perception is of course also extremely deceptive. I've gone a year in Thailand without seeing a car accident, but on the other hand I've seen thirteen (13!) car and truck accidents (11 scenes of an accident, most of them recent, and two as they happened) on a 700km road trip in one day [during full moon...]. How do you think you would see traffic safety in Thailand if that was your first day in the country?

Of the road from Nairobi to Mombasa the saying was "If you didn't see an accident, you were in one".

[seedy]

If YOU are good driver, you will adapt to the driving environment. In whatever country you drive in, and be as safe as you can be.

If you are not, you will experience difficulty, and blame other drivers, the climate, the road conditions, the heights of the tides, the phases of the moon, the alignment of the planets ...

And come on TV and tell us how it is not your fault that you can't drive here.

[AlQaholic]

OP, very well said, brilliant. As I have said on several occasions, raw statistics does not give an accurate picture without analysis.

[Tomtomtom69]

Finally, someone with some sense! I agree with pretty much everything in the OP. Having driven in the USA, as well as some other Asian and Latin American countries, I find driving in Thailand to be just fine. And the stats you quoted are correct. Most of the fatalities in Thailand are on motorcycles. Funny how the Thai-bashers are always quoting that fatality statistic without ever considering the reasons. On any given day--and very similar to the US--I find maybe around 5% of drivers are aggressive jerks. The other 95% are just fine...although something that irritates me even more than the aggressive drivers are the slow and meek drivers. I think some farangs in Thailand may be in that latter category.

Something people aren't willing to admit is that for a country with very little traffic enforcement, the Thais do very well in policing themselves. And yes, this does mean a lot of "common sense" maneuvers which some may find reckless but really is not if everyone understood the unwritten rules of the road. I personally find driving in Thailand to be preferable to driving in the USA and truly dread the day the police start enforcing traffic laws more, such as speeding.

While I would actually prefer that the Thai police would be a bit more stringent with enforcement of traffic rules I'd prefer more of a focus towards more dangerous and/or annoying practices such as ending the practice of driving down the wrong side of the road, mostly done by motorcyclists, a lot of which are motorcycle taxis; more enforcement towards drink driving, i.e. driving under the influence; driving too slow in the right lane; trucks using the fast lane(s) when they shouldn't be than speeding. If Thailand were to one day enforce speeding laws like Australia does where you literally have to look at your speedo every 10 seconds and risk an accident because your eyes aren't on the road then god help us all. But right now there are effectively NO speed limits in Thailand. You drive as you please, but have to take personal responsibility in the event of an accident.

[Tomtomtom69]

A 3-week visit to India cured me of ever complaning about traffic and drivers in Thailand.

So true, in India I always hire a driver. Still smile when remembering driving on the then newly constructed dual carriageway from Agra to Delhi and charging up the Ambassador to about 70 km per hour only to slam on the brakes as I encountered an Elephant in the outside lane going in the wrong direction straight towards me

India is literally madness when it comes to traffic. The drivers there have no sense of road safety and are completely blind maniacs. I remember a motorcyclist in Kolkata, upon seeing a family member of mine cross a small lane actually REVVED his engine and sped up to the end of the lane, in some kind of one man motorcycle racing act, as if he were on a racecourse. One wrong move and he would have had a serious collision with the wall at the end of the lane.

India is one country where I dare not drive myself, despite managing to drive some of the toughest roads in other countries in the region. I've comfortably driven in many countries in the region without much incident including Thailand, Malaysia, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, China (mainland) and even the mother of them all, Vietnam, but can't bring myself to drive in India. Worst drivers in the world, if you ask me.

[Tomtomtom69]

It is hoped that this definitive list will be soon be adopted as the official driving code of Thailand, in the absence of any other such known publication, so that all drivers on the road will act in strict accordance with it.

# 1. The Mercedes Benz always has right of way.

#2. The more wheels you have, the more right of way you have. (Except when Rule #1 applies.)

#3. Anything with two wheels or less does not count as a vehicle and should be disregarded completely. Even if it’s a 1800 cc Harley Davidson the size of the average Thai house.

#4. If you need to turn off, then turn off. If that means a right-angled swerve across three lanes on two wheels so you don’t miss your turn, please go ahead. We’ll just fit in with your plan. No need to indicate your intention.

#5. If in the process of executing that turn, you cause three motorcyclists and a tuk tuk to end up in the ditch, add 5 points.

#6. Indicators should only be used in the following fashion. If someone is behind you and wanting to overtake, put on your right indicator. This means either a/ it is clear and safe to overtake now or b/ don’t overtake now a bus is coming over the blind rise at a speed approaching 130km/h. It will soon become apparent which meaning was intended.

#7. Do have as many Buddhist amulets on the dashboard as possible. If you’re involved in a fatal accident, never mind — there’s always another life, and another …

#8. Traffic jams can be frustrating, so, as soon as you get any open space at all, get your vehicle to its highest possible top speed. As a guideline the rpm counter should be kept in the red zone in event of any open road.

#9. When joining a busy main road from a small side soi, proceed directly into the intersection without stopping – or even pausing – for other traffic. This selfishly indulgent act of stopping and checking will only cause confusion for those behind you, with the possible result of them rear-ending you.

#10. When on a motorcycle, do not wear a helmet, and ride as fast as the bike will possibly go while using cars, buses, elephants, and chickens as slalom course markers. Irrespective of traffic conditions, possible dangers lurking around the corner, and pedestrians foolishly crossing the road at a marked pedestrian crossing, maintain this speed (once again, the red zone on your rpm gauge is a reliable

Thanks to stu

That's pretty good but I disagree with #2. No way a small Mercedes is going to be given way to by a huge truck or bus.

[alex8912]

Let me know when you have an accident that wasnt your fault and are left paralysed or dead and tell me how the statistics

seem then.

Im going to add I have never seen so many cars upside down in ditches or cut in half anywhere else, every trip from BKK to Hua Hin there is always one often enough a whole coach or lorry, Police man who comes to our land told me 50 accidents with fatalities at the junction outside his police box in 10 years odd, the car driver isnt always ok but obviously has more protection than any bike.

Id say about 60-40% of the accidents I have seen are car -car. or car -ditch lorry- ditch and then motorcycles 40%

I don't believe this BS. EVERY TRIP FROM BKK to Hua Hin? Just did it twice this week and at least 15 other times over the last 3 years. Saw one not serious accident last year. The amount of exaggerated crap from old people on this forum is insane.

[Berkshire]

I spent 15 years working in the UAE before I moved here. The population there is about 25% Arab (Emiratis and other Arabs) and about 60% South Asian (Indians, Pakistanis, etc.)and the driving is

generally reckless, aggressive and ill-mannered. I feel more relaxed and much safer driving here, and, as the OP said, Thais seem to be pragmatic on the road and they are very courteous in comparison to the drivers in the UAE.

Courteous?????????????? WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON????????????????

Without any shadow of doubt the Thai drivers are absolutely the least courteous of anywhere in the world. This statement is just laughable..i could go on but it does not merit further effort as the FACT they are the least coutreous is amply backed up by the road death toll statistics

bowerboy, you are a serial Thai-hater with zero credibility. Everybody knows this. You can't utter a positive word about Thailand if your life depended on it. So your opinion means about nada. When will you ever grow up and stop the hate....?

[balo]

Sorry, I do not agree with the OP. Yes you can drive safely on Thai roads for years without getting involved in accidents but the risks are still higher here than in EU or the US. Remember the dashcam video of the foreign driver and his thai wife that was hit and killed by a thai driver who lost control of his vehicle ? Accidents like this happens too many times and add alcohol and drugs into this you understand it's not the safest roads to drive on. But you might get lucky.

[MrY]

The idea that in Thailand cars are built to a lower standard is a popular old wives tale on ThaiVisa

but it has little connection to reality. I used to work for Honda company and can assure you Hondas

built in Marysville, Ohio, Saitama, Japan, or Rayong, Thailand are all built to the same standards.

I don't doubt the quality is similar, but as far as standards Your Mileage May Vary. Where this "old wives tale" originates from is not build quality, but the practice of omitting some safety features in vehicles built in the emerging markets. It is clearly evident today in the safety equipment specs of the average vehicle sold in Thailand today.

More importantly, in the years long gone, buying a brand known for it's safety in the First World may not have guaranteed you the same level of protection in other markets. Missing side impact protection bars (verified by peeking under the door panel of one Japanese brand), solid tube replacing the bumper impact shock absorbers, use of lesser gauge metal in non structural areas (that nonetheless contribute to safety as crumple zones), were all practices used to cut costs. My colleague's new locally manufactured Japanese car weighted 30kg less than official weight on the C.M. airport cargo scale, while my new & imported version of the same model was 10kg over. These checks were done in response to a newspaper article (either B.P. or Nation) highlighting the problem at the time, as my colleague was furious at having paid a premium for a 'safe' brand. The negative publicity has diminished this practice .

Sounds like a very amateurish conspiracy theory idea. The 30 kg difference in weight between 2 cars made for different markets hardly proves any thing to a reasonable person.

Right. But 30kg plus 10kg equals 40 kg. Of the same model car, sedan made in Thailand and an estate made in Japan [for the Japanese market as you say]. The published weights from the owners manual were the same. Thai cars were lighter. And I think a side impact protection bar (from a different Japanese make and model) that is shown on the brochure to be same as the European model missing from a Thai built car proves something. Anyway, I was involved simply because I had that same brand car and the owner of the Thai made car wanted to know if the article could be right. 40kgs is a lot of weight.

And while I do believe conspiracies exist [as proven by history] I do not 'theorize' about them. We wanted proof. Got it. No theory.

Edit: To make it clear, I'm not saying the estate weighted more than a saloon, they always do. I know which way to hold a calculator. Capische?

Both cars were less than one moth old, same equipment code, washed and cleared of personal items, no accessories installed, full tank of fuel (the weight of which was deducted from the scale reading), and even the slight difference in fuel tank sizes accounted for. Thank you for asking.

Edited January 7, 2015 by MrY

[dogpatch55]

I agree Thailand is not so bad to drive in when you get used to it... organized madness in someways,

One thing I would like Thai drivers to adopt is over taking on the right lane only (like in the UK) and not undertaking, I do find the whole over taking in any lane a bit dangerous and most of the problems I see stem from this. I also would like to see motorbikes have both lights active not just the front light, up here in north Thailand most bikes just have a front light and the rear light is often off, I was told by a Thai mate that alot of the younger riders actually think its cool to disconnect the rear light.

Driving down the wrong side of the road on the hard shoulder both cars and bikes is also something that should be stopped in my opinion but hey in the UK everything is so safe on the roads it actually becomes unsafe in some ways, plus driving in the UK seems so boring now.

One thing I would say, having drove for a year in Bangkok then a year up north in Sarakham, its a quite different, Bangkok being pretty unforgiving and a race for every meter of road which to me seemed alot more dangerous than here,

Interesting post anyway

Yeah driving in the uk is so safe!!? That's why there are so many RTAs everyday! There are as many bad drivers in the uk as there are in Thailand and anywhere else

[Shaunduhpostman]

Yeah! Sabai sabai! No promplem! Why people so worried? In Thailand we can just drive anywhere we want and relax and be happy, the left side the right side, the sidewalk, just stop on the tollway if you want and have a rest, don't be serious, we can do what we want and drive how we feel! Maybe relax and have some beers as you drive, relaxed drivers are better drivers, nothing we can do about having an accident anyway so relax! You haven't died in an accident yet, right? See? It's OK! Enjoy your life, enjoy the ride!

[louse1953]

I came back for a look at the comments to this post and am now laughing my derriere off ("derriere" sounds a lot more erudite than "<deleted>"). So predictable. The comments roughly follow the same split as among my farang friends here.

There are those that hate driving here and foam at the mouth over the lack of law enforcement and perceived lawlessness on the road. These folks do not want to be confused by the numbers, as they have their dogmas to give them all the guiding light they require.

On the other side are those who love and thrive on the semi-anarchy (freedom) here, are not threatened by it and wouldn't trade it for anything.

I often wonder what it is about Thailand that holds those in the former group. Is it the sex?

They whinge about that as well.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Not sure I would want to try Bangkok during rush hour. Or Pattaya City Center then to. But you do make an interesting case.

Indian has far more Motor Bikes Riders then Thailand, and their roads are not near as nice as they are here. So unless India is number one on the list for accidents then your observation doesn't hold much water.

But agree that motor bikes are far more dangerous to drive than a car, and since they don't offer the same protection, I agree also that the accidents tend to be more often and worst. .

[beau thai]

I agree with the OP. I was thinking about this a couple of days back as I was driving, and thinking that, for all the headlines and tv posts about '2nd worst in the world' etc, I see very few accidents.

Although erratic driving style is an understatement, the majority (not the fuelled up hotheads) drive/ride defensively, not aggressively as I experience in many other countries.

Thai drive, from what I see, like they dont want to dent their motor, knock down a pedestrian or list.kill a motorcyclist.

Even these crazy 'up to you' busy junctions that look like an accident waiting to happen, seem to work-so long as you dont get an over-timid driver prepared to wait all day for a 'safe gap'.

When I first picked up my car from the dealer on a busy road at rush hour, I was very nervous, especially of the volume of motorcy surrounding me at junctions. No doubt if I collided with one of these helmetless riders it would be my fault as a farang.

But once I learned to drive assertively but very defensively, it all fell into place.

I agree that the OP's views seem counter-intuitive but, rightly or wrongly, I dont find driving here a problem. Amusing sometimes but, really, not that scary.

[brewsterbudgen]

I'm with the OP except for one thing - tailgating. I drive between Bangkok and Pattaya every week and an easy drive it is except for the tailgating lunatics.

Edited January 7, 2015 by brewsterbudgen

[jsflynn603]

Chaing mai didn't seem so bad and I enjoyed driving and did so for hundreds of hours on my motorbike.

One needs to learn a few unique things such as which sidewalks became legal roads at certain times of day, and which one-way bridges flip predominantly in the reverse direction, again, depending upon the time of day.

One must realize also to watch for such things that are easily overlooked such as a 36' ladder the front being held by a second rider on the first motorbike, and the rear being held by the second rider on the motorbike following the first and about 25' behind it.

One special skill is needed to survive and that is the ability, which is not too hard to acquire, to tell who is drunk, and to make sure that you either give way, or get out of their way. This applies also to those poor souls that have no status off their bikes, but become, within their minds, ruler of their country (which includes their motorbike and the immediate road surrounding them. Being rulers of sort one must of necessity give way, or get out of their way, or pay the consequences.

[SiSePuede419]

Cars have seat belts, airbags and are engineered to absorb impact Force by crumpling, yet preserving an area surrounding the driver and/or passenger.

Motorbikes have nothing to protect you in an accident, except your helmet.

The "we're all going to die anyway" is a logical red herring. If you believe riding a moto is a justifiable risk, you should also take up base jumping, free style rock climbing, injecting heroin, changing all your online bank account passwords to "password" and playing Russian Roulette with your spouse to settle disagreements, leaving your door unlocked with a loaded gun on your table and always carry your life savings in your pocket when walking through crowded markets.

Hey, we're all going to die anyway...

Edited January 7, 2015 by SiSePuede419

[PapaGus]

Finally, someone with some sense! I agree with pretty much everything in the OP. Having driven in the USA, as well as some other Asian and Latin American countries, I find driving in Thailand to be just fine. And the stats you quoted are correct. Most of the fatalities in Thailand are on motorcycles. Funny how the Thai-bashers are always quoting that fatality statistic without ever considering the reasons. On any given day--and very similar to the US--I find maybe around 5% of drivers are aggressive jerks. The other 95% are just fine...although something that irritates me even more than the aggressive drivers are the slow and meek drivers. I think some farangs in Thailand may be in that latter category.

Something people aren't willing to admit is that for a country with very little traffic enforcement, the Thais do very well in policing themselves. And yes, this does mean a lot of "common sense" maneuvers which some may find reckless but really is not if everyone understood the unwritten rules of the road. I personally find driving in Thailand to be preferable to driving in the USA and truly dread the day the police start enforcing traffic laws more, such as speeding.

No matter where I drive, or what I drive - and I used to drive cab in San Francisco - I always figure that every swinging dick behind the wheel or handlebars of thier vehicles is out to kill me - and thus drive defensively. Maybe this is why I have not had an accident in 40 years.....knock on wood - (my head).....I sure as hell don't tailgate - and on a bike, don't ride the white lines.....I am gonna get where I am going all in good time - and in once piece.

[MrY]

Cars have seat belts, airbags and are engineered to absorb impact Force by crumpling, yet preserving an area surrounding the driver and/or passenger.

Motorbikes have nothing to protect you in an accident, except your helmet.

The "we're all going to die anyway" is a logical red herring. If you believe riding a moto is a justifiable risk, you should also take up base jumping, free style rock climbing, injecting heroin, changing all your online bank account passwords to "password" and playing Russian Roulette with your spouse to settle disagreements, leaving your door unlocked with a loaded gun on your table and always carry your life savings in your pocket when walking through crowded markets.

Hey, we're all going to die anyway...

You forgot extreme ironing....

[Tonto21]

Let me know when you have an accident that wasnt your fault and are left paralysed or dead and tell me how the statistics

seem then.

Im going to add I have never seen so many cars upside down in ditches or cut in half anywhere else, every trip from BKK to Hua Hin there is always one often enough a whole coach or lorry, Police man who comes to our land told me 50 accidents with fatalities at the junction outside his police box in 10 years odd, the car driver isnt always ok but obviously has more protection than any bike.

Id say about 60-40% of the accidents I have seen are car -car. or car -ditch lorry- ditch and then motorcycles 40%

I don't believe this BS. EVERY TRIP FROM BKK to Hua Hin? Just did it twice this week and at least 15 other times over the last 3 years. Saw one not serious accident last year. The amount of exaggerated crap from old people on this forum is insN

Nice one alex...... Can't wait for you post on AIDs and Old farang smell of piss posts........"youth......Is there anything they don't know"

[Tonto21]

Let me know when you have an accident that wasnt your fault and are left paralysed or dead and tell me how the statistics

seem then.

Im going to add I have never seen so many cars upside down in ditches or cut in half anywhere else, every trip from BKK to Hua Hin there is always one often enough a whole coach or lorry, Police man who comes to our land told me 50 accidents with fatalities at the junction outside his police box in 10 years odd, the car driver isnt always ok but obviously has more protection than any bike.

Id say about 60-40% of the accidents I have seen are car -car. or car -ditch lorry- ditch and then motorcycles 40%

I don't believe this BS. EVERY TRIP FROM BKK to Hua Hin? Just did it twice this week and at least 15 other times over the last 3 years. Saw one not serious accident last year. The amount of exaggerated crap from old people on this forum is insane.

Youth..... is there anything they don;t know....................... About everything....

[warrimurf]

I have been driving in Thailand for the last 12 years and found it to be not so scary given the correct amount of common sense and driving skills.

I have licences in UK, Australia and Nigeria all of which were relatively easy to adapt to. I drive cars and big bikes in all those countries and find the levels of danger similar, not saying there have not been some moments though.

The toughest driving experience for me was on a trip to USA I found the driving most difficult and understanding the road system quite stressful in comparison.

In Thailand most everyone is reasonably polite and understanding although as everywhere there are some total numpties out there.

The worst bit for me in Thailand is the incredibly stupid law that you must drive a motorbike on the extreme left all times. Makes no sense and makes bikes a prime target for a side swipe as the car turns left without looking. Given proper driving training and intuition it's just fine.

In case you wondered I passed my driving test in 1970 and never had an accident in a car on the roads but on motorbikes I have been run into by cars entering from side streets two times.

Wherever you go 'YOU' need to learn and adapt not them.

[thaibeachlovers]

Op, commute in Chiang Mai then come back and tell me how not so bad the driving is. Driving is only pleasant here when there are no other road users on your stretch. Eyes need to be absolutely peeled every second because the propensity for someone to do something completely nuts is ever-present. Done at least 150,000 miles in Thailand in all areas.

I live in Chiang Mai and the only significant traffic problem I see is that it's a lot heavier than it used to be.

As far as the drivers here, they are generally more sensible and courteous than most places I've lived.

Driving here (in Chiang Mai, not Bangkok) is a piece of cake compared to the Philippines. And compared

to the U.S., I would estimate that road rage is about 97.6% less.

The nastiest drivers I've seen in Chiang Mai are farang. They (especially my American countrymen) have

this etched-in-stone legal idea about right-of-way -- and they are obsessed with imposing their nonsense

alien ideas on the unsuspecting locals, including yours truly.

By the way, to me, the TV expression TIT most often means more sensible than elsewhere (farangland).

As the OP so eloquently expressed, "Thais are much more pragmatic." They have learned to get from A

to B with the least amount of risk and hassle. And, in Chiang Mai (unlike the U.S.) we don't get harassed

by the police for every minor benign infraction (or perceived infraction) of traffic laws. I much prefer the

BIB over the police in the U.S. with their overly aggressive behavior and I-am-next-to-God attitude.

That's the way I see traffic here in Chiang Mai. The experience of others may vary, especially when you

factor in all the impractical excess baggage of alien ideas that many farang have brought with them.

I really hate driving in C M because there are just too many cars for the infrastructure, roads are far too narrow and blocked with all sorts of things, parking is impossible and the road signage is a joke. My nephew goes to university and trying to take the car to his flat is a nightmare.

Going north though, is now OK as I've discovered the bypass routes and don't have to go through C M.

[thaibeachlovers]

I'm with the OP except for one thing - tailgating. I drive between Bangkok and Pattaya every week and an easy drive it is except for the tailgating lunatics.

I have discovered that New Zealand drivers are by far the worst tailgaters that I have ever encountered. Latest experience was when a moron driving a Mac truck tailgated me.

At least in Thailand, the fools are usually coming towards me, not up my backside.

Between Bkk and Pattaya at least you have double lanes to let them past, while in NZ most of the roads are single and the impatient cretins think that I am going to speed up if they get close enough to me. No way I'm exceeding the speed limit now, as the fuzz don't make any allowance for a few km over the limit. Even ONE km over and they'll book you.

[WheresWaldo]

I drive both biggish bike and pickup in Thailand and my view of driving and riding here is mixed. On the one hand I have absolutely no problem or fear when driving and riding here, I am only to aware of how fast things go wrong on the roads.

I think the level of competence by Thai road users swings from one end of the spectrum to the other, with no rule of thumb to indicate who the idiots are! Have to admit I like riding my bike in Thailand and I have found the level of awareness by car and pickup drivers is higher than that of a lot of countries I have ridden in. I put that down to near everyone here starts out on a scooter............ However I am aware that just because they see me, that doesn't mean they won't carve me up!

I've never in 8 years had an incident, (bonehead driving)............... Until about 2 months ago.

I'll try and keep this short, driving home north on the 107, far side of Mae Rim heading for Mae Taeng. Heavy rain, night, doing about 100 km h I just managed to glimpse a scooter, via the overhead street lamps ahead of me crossing diagonally left to right, Heading for the 'U' turn...............it had no lights on and we were on a collision course, (I'm talking 5 seconds out) If I had maintained my speed and direction I would have 'T' boned her.....(yes I could even see it was a woman) no doubt about it I would have spread her all over the road! I try and move to the left, (I'm in the outside lane)....... She changes direction, goes right, (pointing at me now) I go right....... Then total loss of control on the slick wet road, we start to spin, I now don't even know if I've hit her or not...... we hit the centre reservation, just past the 'U' turn opening, (high curb, about 3 feet tall) with the passenger front side, we slam into a concrete post right on the passenger door hinges, the door pops open, we are springing hard, my wife is coming out under the seat belt and her lower legs are out of the door, (I would not have believed possible if I didn't see it myself)................. Anyway we came to a stop in the hedge, both fine, we missed the bike rider..... She stayed to watch the show then drove of when I got out of the pickup. The thing is still being repaired, I was also fined 400 Baht for destroying government property, concrete sign post. In hindsight I feel we were very lucky, we could have spun through the 'U' turn opening into oncoming traffic.... Would have been game over...

You can only ever be prepared so much for boneheads in other vehicles, I treat all other road users as idiots, when I can see them!

I had a similar situation several years ago, only I was on my bike and it was sunny, not raining. I was cruising along and a young woman who was sitting stationary on her scooter on the left shoulder suddenly began to execute a U-turn right across my path. I estimated the point of collision hit the brakes and gambled with a maneuver to the left. I was lucky she did not suddenly hit her brakes, too, or I would have solidly T-boned her. As it was, I passed just behind her. Had I had another coat of paint, we'd have scraped. The woman wasn't trying to commit suicide. For whatever reason, she simply did not see me. It always amazes me how many calculations go through one's head during a moment of crisis.

For me, it was another lesson learned. I have since observed that Thai scooterists typically execute their U-turns from the left shoulder. Now, whenever I see a stationary scooter with a rider on the left shoulder, I am prepared. I will often give a short, friendly toot of the horn just to make sure the person is aware of my presence. At the end of the day, my survival is my responsibility, and I accept this.

On another occasion, an old man shot slowly out of a side street angling across the road in front of me (angling away from me). Were were on collision course. That time, the oncoming lane was clear and I hit the throttle hard and accelerating over the centerline and around him across his path.

I just read the death statistics for the New Year holiday in yesterday's newspaper. I note that 82% involved motorcycles, according to the report.

Take the scooters out of the equation and the stats are tame.

As to whether death statistics in Thailand include people who die after being removed from the scene, I have no idea, but am happy to defer to those who think they know. My main point was that whatever the true dismal statistic may actually be, the lions share of them involve scooters.