12 dead in attack on Paris newspaper; France goes on alert

[Ulysses G.]

The Muslim world is doing more than just condemning terrorism. Arab states are in the coalition fighting ISIS.

Only problem with that, is that some of these countries sponsor terrorism themselves. Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Salafi jihadist terrorist militant groups and others provide weapons and funding for Islamic terrorists that they endorse. It is not good enough to only fight the particular terrorists that they don't get along with.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Chicog]

The Muslim world is doing more than just condemning terrorism. Arab states are in the coalition fighting ISIS.

Only problem with that, is that some of these countries sponsor terrorism themselves. Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Salafi jihadist terrorist militant groups and others provide weapons and funding for Islamic terrorists. It is not good enough to only fight the particular terrorists that they don't get along with.

Not any more. They are rather crapping themselves at the monsters they have created.

They even met with Iran in New York in September which is rather telling.

[Thai at Heart]

Muslim extremism is Muslim. The rest of the other religions aren't causing a problem on my doorstep so, why worry. It is the obligation of all citizens of a country to protect it and its peoples against crimes.

Indeed, and Muslims play their part; one of the policemen killed in this attack was a Muslim.

The police and armed forces of most European countries have Muslim members, some of whom go above and beyond the call of duty: Police praise Muslim soldiers who acted as 'bait' for beheading gang

By definition the Muslim community will know better about extremists than I do. thus the obligation to fight extremeism falls more at the Muslim moderates door than mine.

Why would ordinary Muslim citizens with no connection to terrorism "know better about extremists" than anyone else?

The terrorists almost certainly have supporters and accomplices within the Muslim community, as the IRA did amongst the Irish community in the UK in the 1970s, but, again like the IRA, not amongst the majority.

We all have an obligation to help in the fight against terrorism in whatever why we can; and the majority of ordinary Muslims are playing their part as much as the rest of us.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/welsh-muslim-nasser-muthana-terror-recruiting-7305385

At the time the Metropolitan Police urged Muslim women to inform on family members intending to head to the warzone.

Police say so far this year the number of Syria-related arrests has increased substantially, to 40 between January and March, compared with 25 people in the whole of 2013.

Police warned those travelling for humanitarian reasons were very likely to be drawn into contact with terror groups and may get drawn into their activities.

ISIS is said to have 400 to 500 recruits from the UK and some have suggested there is a risk of homegrown jihadists returning to carry out attacks here.

Mr Kidwai said the security services, with the co-operation of the Muslim community, will ensure the havoc engulfing Iraq does not end up visiting the streets of Britain.

The community and families of these people have a choice if they find out that their realtives or friends are becoming radicalised.

They can contact the authorities or they can choose not to.

By definition in the strictest sense Muslims marry Muslims and the more devout they are the less the socialise outside their community so obviously muslim know radical Muslims better than any other social group.

A group of Islamic extremists in Cardiff has been involved in trying to radicalise a young Muslim, a BBC Wales investigation has revealed.

For months, an undercover reporter for the Week In Week Out programme has been meeting with a member of a group called Supporters of Tawheed.

A man called Rofi attempted to radicalise the undercover reporter by directing him to extremist websites and videos that preach hate.

He denied radicalising the reporter.

The reporter said: "Going undercover has opened my eyes to their world and how dangerous it could be.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19882015

[micmichd]

I guess most of Farangs that shout out in public "Throw them back across the ocean" know very well they need them for survival. If they'd know any Moslem personally they would not shout like this anymore.

Don't worry, I don't consider myself to be beyond this.

If I only think of Farangs I think of swine, a mass without a face, but when I meet a Farang I usually meet a human being, and we can be best friends. Since I did not supply you with a photo as avatar, you would not be able to spot me out. But be rest-assured: I've also got a face, kindly notice.

[Farma]

7by7 you can quote the official line but until you actually talk to the average Abdullah on the street you don't get the true feeling.

I just happened to be in Saudi the day after the Charlie shooting. 3 Saudis I've known for a long time, one of them 20 years, who I consider moderates tried to drag me into a conversation on what happened.

I listened and gave my usual neutral responses as i've learnt over the years is best in these situations. I made my departure but not before they told me they believed the cartoonists got what they deserved but didn't go as far as to fully support the terrorists. They didn't condemn the actions either.

[alanrchase]

The Muslim world is doing more than just condemning terrorism. Arab states are in the coalition fighting ISIS.

Only problem with that, is that some of these countries sponsor terrorism themselves. Saudi Arabia is the world's largest source of funds for Salafi jihadist terrorist militant groups and others provide weapons and funding for Islamic terrorists. It is not good enough to only fight the terrorists that are not their particular corner.

When the Saudis catch a terrorist alive he or she probably wishes they had been killed. I am sure that terrorism is financed directly by certain elements in the country. I am also sure that funds for the terrorists have also come from Western governments financing various freedom fighters to help overthrow anti western regimes. Where did IS suddenly spring up from?

[Scott]

Off-topic, conspiracy posts and replies removed.

[micmichd]

According to Wikipedia, the idea of Islamic State looks quite ambiguous to me, with a smell like further heretical splits within IS.

Does anyone know a more stringent source for IS ?

[i claudius]

7by7

Who is interested in moderate Muslims? It is the 25 per cent that hate everything and they need to be put down

Where do you get that 25% from?

Approximately 1.57 billion people worldwide are Muslim.

Are you seriously suggesting that 392.5 million of them are terrorist murderers or supporters of same?

It is important for people to realise that the vast majority of Muslims no more support terrorism than you or I.

This is because marginalising ordinary Muslims, demonising them, attacking them for the crimes committed by the terrorists will only radicalise more of them; especially among the young living in the West; as can be seen by those misguided youths from Europe traveling to join ISIS.

Do you really want to act as a recruiting sergeant for ISIS?

The moderate 90% are free to stand with the rest of the world to fight the 10? (157 mn, a frightening thought), or even 99% versus 15.7mn

Condemning, stating or talking isn't enough...

So it's not 25% but 10%, or is it 1%?

Be honest; you don't know what percentage of Muslims are terrorists or terrorist supporters; do you?

The Muslim world is doing more than just condemning terrorism. Arab states are in the coalition fighting ISIS.

As I said in my previous, the police and armed forces of most European countries contain Muslim members; one of whom died trying to protect the staff at Charlie Hebdo.

well it has been reported that 125000 Muslims log into jihadist website in the UK ,this seems quite a lot to me,or did they log on by accident while looking for something else? perhaps they mixed it up while looking up jam making

[MrWorldwide]

7by7

Who is interested in moderate Muslims? It is the 25 per cent that hate everything and they need to be put down

I say we pull back and nuke the planet from orbit - it's the only way to be sure .....

[Thai at Heart]

7by7

Who is interested in moderate Muslims? It is the 25 per cent that hate everything and they need to be put down

Where do you get that 25% from?

Approximately 1.57 billion people worldwide are Muslim.

Are you seriously suggesting that 392.5 million of them are terrorist murderers or supporters of same?

It is important for people to realise that the vast majority of Muslims no more support terrorism than you or I.

This is because marginalising ordinary Muslims, demonising them, attacking them for the crimes committed by the terrorists will only radicalise more of them; especially among the young living in the West; as can be seen by those misguided youths from Europe traveling to join ISIS.

Do you really want to act as a recruiting sergeant for ISIS?

The moderate 90% are free to stand with the rest of the world to fight the 10? (157 mn, a frightening thought), or even 99% versus 15.7mn

Condemning, stating or talking isn't enough...

So it's not 25% but 10%, or is it 1%?

Be honest; you don't know what percentage of Muslims are terrorists or terrorist supporters; do you?

The Muslim world is doing more than just condemning terrorism. Arab states are in the coalition fighting ISIS.

As I said in my previous, the police and armed forces of most European countries contain Muslim members; one of whom died trying to protect the staff at Charlie Hebdo.

I didn't postulate it was 25%. Someone else did.

Issue is, bad things happen all the time. These are bad things coming from a specific known and readily identifiable part of society.

Not trying to prevent terrorism happening is a crime.

[micmichd]

Yes.

But please on both sides of the Mediterranean Sea.

[Ulysses G.]

A lot of the countries now coming out and expresses their political correct "solidarity" with the west, are in fact major sponsors of terrorist networks!!

Indeed. They are afraid of ISIS, not the terrorism that benefits them.

[Kitsune]

7by7

Who is interested in moderate Muslims? It is the 25 per cent that hate everything and they need to be put down

Where do you get that 25% from?

Approximately 1.57 billion people worldwide are Muslim.

Are you seriously suggesting that 392.5 million of them are terrorist murderers or supporters of same?

It is important for people to realise that the vast majority of Muslims no more support terrorism than you or I.

This is because marginalising ordinary Muslims, demonising them, attacking them for the crimes committed by the terrorists will only radicalise more of them; especially among the young living in the West; as can be seen by those misguided youths from Europe traveling to join ISIS.

Do you really want to act as a recruiting sergeant for ISIS?

The moderate 90% are free to stand with the rest of the world to fight the 10? (157 mn, a frightening thought), or even 99% versus 15.7mn

Condemning, stating or talking isn't enough...

You are right

Only proper education arms you against the Jihad recruiters.

In Paris suburbs some kids are telling them to fxxx off. Not everyone gets lured into Islamist bullshit

France has to stop neglecting its youth's education

[Kitsune]

*Deleted post edited out*

How is his related to Charlie hebdo?

[7by7]

(Some quotes removed for clarity and to comply with forum software)

I didn't postulate it was 25%. Someone else did.

Issue is, bad things happen all the time. These are bad things coming from a specific known and readily identifiable part of society.

Not trying to prevent terrorism happening is a crime.

So you do have no idea how many Muslims worldwide are terrorist supporters, you simply swallowed figure given you by an unknown source?

Yes, bad things do happen all the time and terrorist come from many communities and have many different aims. Europol Report: All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t

But to say that so called Islamic terrorists are supported by even a tiny minority of Muslims is over simplification with no evidence to support it.

Do you believe that all Basques supported and approved of the bombings and murders carried out in their name by ETA?

Do you believe that all Irish republicans supported the bombings and murders carried out in their name by the IRA and INLA?

I'm not sure I'd agree that not trying to prevent terrorism is a crime; but do believe that if one has knowledge of a terrorist plot or the location of terrorist suspects then one should report it to the appropriate authorities.

[Kitsune]

Could you guys stop making this about religion. Muslims communities have condemned the attack

[Patsycat]

Some good news!!

The editorial staff that survived the cowardly attack on their colleagues on Charlie Hebdo are already working on next weeks issue!!

Long live free speech and people who are not intimidated!!

And instead of the usual 100,000 copies they are going to print 1 million. I for one shall buy one.

[Ulysses G.]

Could you guys stop making this about religion. Muslims communities have condemned the attack

Correction: SOME Muslims communities have condemned the attack. It is far from universal.

[zydeco]

Could you guys stop making this about religion. Muslims communities have condemned the attack

Correction: SOME Muslims communities have condemned the attack. It is far from universal.

And, often (if not most) of the time, they tie their condemnation to a statement claiming that they are the true victims. This goes on all the time with them. Very, very few come out and make unequivocal condemnations.

[keemapoot]

Could you guys stop making this about religion. Muslims communities have condemned the attack

Correction: SOME Muslims communities have condemned the attack. It is far from universal.

And, often (if not most) of the time, they tie their condemnation to a statement claiming that they are the true victims. This goes on all the time with them. Very, very few come out and make unequivocal condemnations.

Most importantly of all, they know of the existence in their own Mosques and communities of radical elements, but refuse to expose, expel, or otherwise root them out.

[Scott]

*Deleted post edited out*

How is his related to Charlie hebdo?

Numerous off-topic posts and replies have been removed. I apologize to those who are actually interested in the topic of the thread.

Further off-topic comments will result in suspensions.

[Kitsune]

Could you guys stop making this about religion. Muslims communities have condemned the attack

Correction: SOME Muslims communities have condemned the attack. It is far from universal.

The Grand Mosque of Paris

We strongly condemn these kind of acts and we expect the authorities to take the most appropriate measures. Our community is stunned by what just happened. It’s a whole section of our democracy that is seriously affected. This is a deafening declaration of war. Times have changed, and we are now entering a new era of confrontation.

The Union of Islamic Organizations of France

The UOIF condemns in the strongest terms this criminal attack, and these horrible murders. The UOIF expresses its deepest condolences to the families and all the employees of Charlie Weekly.”

Hassen Chalghoumi, imam of the Drancy mosque in Paris's Seine-Saint-Denis suburb, spoke with France's BFM TV and condemned the attackers, saying, "Their barbarism has nothing to do with Islam."

Dawud Walid Detroit, Michigan

Tariq Ramadan

Dr. Bilal Rana, President of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association, said that her organization plans to launch a letter writing campaign to openly condemn the attack:

Members of the Muslim Advisory Council to the NYPD "unequivocally" denounced the shooting.

Now yes the 1% Islamist Salfist are rejoicing but that's expected

[7by7]

Could you guys stop making this about religion. Muslims communities have condemned the attack

Correction: SOME Muslims communities have condemned the attack. It is far from universal.

True, it is, unfortunately, not universal.

But as shown previously most Muslim community leaders, especially in France and elsewhere in Europe, and many Muslim governments have condemned the attack.

[7by7]

Could you guys stop making this about religion. Muslims communities have condemned the attack

Correction: SOME Muslims communities have condemned the attack. It is far from universal.

And, often (if not most) of the time, they tie their condemnation to a statement claiming that they are the true victims. This goes on all the time with them. Very, very few come out and make unequivocal condemnations.

I suggest you read the unequivocal condemnations from Muslim leaders and governments posted earlier.

No claims of victimhood in any of those.

[Kitsune]

Could you guys stop making this about religion. Muslims communities have condemned the attack

Correction: SOME Muslims communities have condemned the attack. It is far from universal.

True, it is, unfortunately, not universal.

But as shown previously most Muslim community leaders, especially in France and elsewhere in Europe, and many Muslim governments have condemned the attack.

Yes but 1% of idiots is not Islam and does not make the rules in France

A few chargers of Kalashnikov won't kill the right to blasphemy

[Steely Dan]

7by7

Who is interested in moderate Muslims? It is the 25 per cent that hate everything and they need to be put down

Where do you get that 25% from?

Approximately 1.57 billion people worldwide are Muslim.

Are you seriously suggesting that 392.5 million of them are terrorist murderers or supporters of same?

It is important for people to realise that the vast majority of Muslims no more support terrorism than you or I.

This is because marginalising ordinary Muslims, demonising them, attacking them for the crimes committed by the terrorists will only radicalise more of them; especially among the young living in the West; as can be seen by those misguided youths from Europe traveling to join ISIS.

Do you really want to act as a recruiting sergeant for ISIS?

The moderate 90% are free to stand with the rest of the world to fight the 10? (157 mn, a frightening thought), or even 99% versus 15.7mn

Condemning, stating or talking isn't enough...

So it's not 25% but 10%, or is it 1%?

Be honest; you don't know what percentage of Muslims are terrorists or terrorist supporters; do you?

The Muslim world is doing more than just condemning terrorism. Arab states are in the coalition fighting ISIS.

As I said in my previous, the police and armed forces of most European countries contain Muslim members; one of whom died trying to protect the staff at Charlie Hebdo.

Nobody knows the exact percentage but I would say a good place to start would be the number who believe Sharia law should take precedence over the secular laws of the land. P.S 25% might even be too low, but should Al-Azhar actually take steps to explicitly abrogate the incitement to violence contained in sundry verses of the Quran then that could be a game changer.

Incidentally your post amounts to asking people to be grateful for those Muslims who aren't trying to kill us.

http://pamelageller.com/2015/01/reactions-on-twitter-to-attack-on-charlie-hebdo-including-hashtags-paris-is-burning-vengeance-for-insulting-allahs-messenger-lone-wolves-are-terrorizing-france.html/

Edited January 10, 2015 by Steely Dan

[Rumblecat]

Could you guys stop making this about religion. Muslims communities have condemned the attack

Correction: SOME Muslims communities have condemned the attack. It is far from universal.

And, often (if not most) of the time, they tie their condemnation to a statement claiming that they are the true victims. This goes on all the time with them. Very, very few come out and make unequivocal condemnations.

I suggest you read the unequivocal condemnations from Muslim leaders and governments posted earlier.

No claims of victimhood in any of those.

Yeah, none of the condemnations I've read have mentioned any victimhood at all. In fact they're all utterly unequivocal- but then I've probably not read every single one in the past week so if you could link us up to the ones where they state that they are the true victims that would be great, Ulysses.

[Kitsune]

I suggest you read the unequivocal condemnations from Muslim leaders and governments posted earlier.

No claims of victimhood in any of those.

Yeah, none of the condemnations I've read have mentioned any victimhood at all. In fact they're all utterly unequivocal- but then I've probably not read every single one in the past week so if you could link us up to the ones where they state that they are the true victims that would be great, Ulysses.

Here you are, just have to ask

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html

Edited January 10, 2015 by Kitsune

[Ulysses G.]

so if you could link us up to the ones where they state that they are the true victims that would be great, Ulysses.

It is always better to address the poster who actually said something and that is not me. However, if you want a list of Muslims that didn't condemn the attack, I might be able to work something out, although there are so many of them that it will be very incomplete.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Ulysses G.