hard124get Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I was disappointed to not see the face of the non-prophet plastered in posters by all the marchers. It seems the terrorism has worked. i Maybe, you should try it, lead by example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phra Ek Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I have mixed feelings on this - all of us who live in Thailand have to accept that there are practical limitations on freedom of speech. Yes the nut-jobs who shot unarmed people with assault rifles are 100% at fault with no justification - but a simple risk assessment may have led to a different strategy at the magazine. And as for this being part of a wider Islamic issue - I'm not convinced. I have Muslim friends in Malaysia and Indonesia who would never consider any act of violence in defense of their religion and who also feel that ISIS, al Qaeda etc are evil nutters. This is a Middle Eastern issue - and in some Middle Eastern countries there's a culture of violence, revenge and oppression of women - and lets be honest - some cultures are just abhorrent. This abhorrent culture can influence some easily-led people in other countries and religion is a convenient excuse. But the actions at the magazine has now made this a global issue of freedom of speech - so yes - we are all Charlie now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Off-topic posts and replies removed. Also those in a foreign language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post devaram Posted January 13, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 13, 2015 Freedom of speech, unless you criticise Jews. In 2009, Charlie Hebdo Fired Cartoonist For Anti-Semitic Cartoon They always publish cartoons about anybody, so are you sure ? He is obsessed. Charlie Hebdo published tons of nasty cartoons about Jews and everybody else. They are easy to find on the Internet. Only radical Islam responded with violence. And they will continue to respond with violence if disrespect is shown to their prophet so why taunt them?Democracy doesn't give you the right to slander even in France. This kind of thing does not build bridges it is racist and Islamiphobic annd will only cause more alienation of mainstream Muslims and encourage their children to join the terrorists. I fail to see the humor. I'm not laughing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MW72 Posted January 13, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 13, 2015 There were some good cartoon responses on the BBC website. The one below sums it up quite well. The text reads: "Believers hurt by non-believers" (the man crying on the left) and "Non-believers hurt by believers." (the man lying in the pool of blood on the right). Another good one. Link to the article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-30712925 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post maidee Posted January 13, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) all news papers in the world should have this on their cover, if they had the .... Edited January 13, 2015 by maidee 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aripengu Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 These guys are heroes Being able to forgive such barbarism shows a lot of love respect and hope in the human race. And if they are able to forgive SO SHOULD WE I guess you misunderstood they don't mean they forgive the killers the prophet says he forgives the newspaper for printing his pictures It probably means forgiveness both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiready Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I believe in freedom of speech, but I'm not going to walk up to a MMA champ, especially one already pissed off, and say, Your mom sure %$*@ me good last night. The editor is known to have said "I would rather die standing on my feet then kneeling." This is courage, not stupidity. This is conviction, not ignorance. A great many people identify with this conviction. +1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Good for them. They are giving the finger to these murdering Islamic terrorists! Yes, but don't use it as your avatar, like I did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) These guys are heroes Being able to forgive such barbarism shows a lot of love respect and hope in the human race. And if they are able to forgive SO SHOULD WE I guess you misunderstood they don't mean they forgive the killers the prophet says he forgives the newspaper for printing his pictures In cartoons and in Luz cartoons, what the character is saying is always in bubble like in the cartoon below The text above in capital letter is the cartoonist's comment. (I can't believe I have to explain how to read cartoons) Luz said:" I did the drawing I wrote "tout est pardonné" and I cried" Edited January 13, 2015 by Kitsune 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeijoshinCool Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I believe in freedom of speech, but I'm not going to walk up to a MMA champ, especially one already pissed off, and say, Your mom sure %$*@ me good last night. The editor is known to have said "I would rather die standing on my feet then kneeling." This is courage, not stupidity. This is conviction, not ignorance. A great many people identify with this conviction. . Well, now, you're talking oranges to my apples. I never said anything about stupidity, and I never would condone kneeling. Those are your words. I was talking about discretion. But respect comes into play, too. I don't agree with other people's religions, but I never mock them. Never. I respect their right to believe what they want to believe, just as your editor demanded respect for his free speech. Except my respect doesn't get people killed. The man who died standing up for what he believed in, he took a number of innocents with him. They were minding their own business in a grocery store. And he did it without asking them if that was okay with them, and their children, and other loved ones. I call that irresponsible and unloving. It also says a lot about the people at the magazine, that they chose to put on their cover that Mohammed forgives them, rather than "Charlie Hebdo" forgives the killers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjunadawn Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I have mixed feelings on this - all of us who live in Thailand have to accept that there are practical limitations on freedom of speech. Yes the nut-jobs who shot unarmed people with assault rifles are 100% at fault with no justification - but a simple risk assessment may have led to a different strategy at the magazine. And as for this being part of a wider Islamic issue - I'm not convinced. I have Muslim friends in Malaysia and Indonesia who would never consider any act of violence in defense of their religion and who also feel that ISIS, al Qaeda etc are evil nutters. This is a Middle Eastern issue - and in some Middle Eastern countries there's a culture of violence, revenge and oppression of women - and lets be honest - some cultures are just abhorrent. This abhorrent culture can influence some easily-led people in other countries and religion is a convenient excuse. But the actions at the magazine has now made this a global issue of freedom of speech - so yes - we are all Charlie now. Fair enough; but Abu Sayef in PI, Jemaah Islamiah in Indo, some Urigher chatter in China, Al Qaeda in India, Taliban in central asia, groups in the caucauses, Boko Harem in Africa (to name just one), and the numerous independent voices from the west suggest that this is not a mideast mindset, this is an islamic mindset. The editor conducted a risk assessment and was well aware that while they lampooned various religious icons it was only the muslims that seriously threatened them. I will re-post the response of his risk assessment in his own words: "I would rather die standing than live kneeling." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I believe in freedom of speech, but I'm not going to walk up to a MMA champ, especially one already pissed off, and say, Your mom sure %$*@ me good last night. The editor is known to have said "I would rather die standing on my feet then kneeling." This is courage, not stupidity. This is conviction, not ignorance. A great many people identify with this conviction. . Well, now, you're talking oranges to my apples. I never said anything about stupidity, and I never would condone kneeling. Those are your words. I was talking about discretion. But respect comes into play, too. I don't agree with other people's religions, but I never mock them. Never. I respect their right to believe what they want to believe, just as your editor demanded respect for his free speech. Except my respect doesn't get people killed. The man who died standing up for what he believed in, he took a number of innocents with him. They were minding their own business in a grocery store. And he did it without asking them if that was okay with them, and their children, and other loved ones. I call that irresponsible and unloving. It also says a lot about the people at the magazine, that they chose to put on their cover that Mohammed forgives them, rather than "Charlie Hebdo" forgives the killers. A/ it's about being in republic and not being told what to think/do B/ Learn to read cartoons! What a character says is in A BUBBLE, above is the CARTOONIST COMMENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) all news papers in the world should have this on their cover, if they had the .... I'd actually like to see that happen, but I have to ask: If you had "the ..." would you carry that cartoon in a public street as a sign? Edited January 13, 2015 by HerbalEd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 all news papers in the world should have this on their cover, if they had the .... I'd actually like to see that happen, but I have to ask: If you had "the ..." would you carry it in a public street as a sign? They did in Paris yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Suradit69Of course the terrorists and nut jobs who staged the bombing and hostage-taking are 100% to blame for what they did, but if those who are publishing these cartoons (and let's face it, lampooning Mohammed is hardly a noble cause) know that innocent people are being put at risk, maybe exercising some restraint would be worth considering. Terrorists don't care about collateral damage, but maybe people who think themselves to be the "good guys" ought to care. Lampooning Mohamed is the only pacifist way they found to fight morons who take Mohamed as an excuse to kill people What have you got? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post arjunadawn Posted January 13, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 13, 2015 I believe in freedom of speech, but I'm not going to walk up to a MMA champ, especially one already pissed off, and say, Your mom sure %$*@ me good last night. The editor is known to have said "I would rather die standing on my feet then kneeling." This is courage, not stupidity. This is conviction, not ignorance. A great many people identify with this conviction. . Well, now, you're talking oranges to my apples. I never said anything about stupidity, and I never would condone kneeling. Those are your words. I was talking about discretion. But respect comes into play, too. I don't agree with other people's religions, but I never mock them. Never. I respect their right to believe what they want to believe, just as your editor demanded respect for his free speech. Except my respect doesn't get people killed. The man who died standing up for what he believed in, he took a number of innocents with him. They were minding their own business in a grocery store. And he did it without asking them if that was okay with them, and their children, and other loved ones. I call that irresponsible and unloving. It also says a lot about the people at the magazine, that they chose to put on their cover that Mohammed forgives them, rather than "Charlie Hebdo" forgives the killers. No, you did not say those things. I regret if I wrote in such a way you felt I had quoted you. You made no such comment. I do know you were talking about discretion but this issue is well beyond that and now it is self policing or community policing of norms of expression in the west. Underneath the harnessing of free speech (under the cover of discretion) is fear. When people live in fear it is time to die, or time to act, but not time to color the fear as discretion. Any life worth living cannot be wed to fear! The man who died did not take innocents with him; they were all innocent! The editor did not demand respect of anyone. The people who died in the grocery store had nothing to do with the editor; they too were innocents. What you suggest is a cause and effect link between the magazine's choice to publish and the death of all involved resulting in accountability for the magazine; how utterly outlandish. The idea that somehow they are responsible for murder's killing others is truly bizarre. It is this type of thinking that has the west chasing its tail while islam determinedly rebuilds the redoubts around Vienna. People are accountable for their own actions! Islam is at war with the West and this is a savage act of war. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerbalEd Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 all news papers in the world should have this on their cover, if they had the .... I'd actually like to see that happen, but I have to ask: If you had "the ..." would you carry it in a public street as a sign? They did in Paris yesterday Bravo to those that did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 all news papers in the world should have this on their cover, if they had the .... I'd actually like to see that happen, but I have to ask: If you had "the ..." would you carry it in a public street as a sign? They did in Paris yesterday Bravo to those that did. If we can do it, so can you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 First Charlie victory over terrorism Charlie Hebdo attack: Anonymous claims first victory in 'war' on jihadi websites Hacking group announces on Twitter account @OpCharlieHebdo that it has taken down French terror-mongering websitehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11340040/Charlie-Hebdo-attack-Anonymous-claims-first-victory-in-war-on-jihadi-websites.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) And they will continue to respond with violence if disrespect is shown to their prophet so why taunt them?Democracy doesn't give you the right to slander even in France. This kind of thing does not build bridges it is racist and Islamiphobic annd will only cause more alienation of mainstream Muslims and encourage their children to join the terrorists. I fail to see the humor. I'm not laughing. It's not slander,it's blaspheme. And yes i is very much allowed by French democracy and it is the very reason they do it. It's a French tradition since Voltaire. Edited January 13, 2015 by Kitsune 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeijoshinCool Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I believe in freedom of speech, but I'm not going to walk up to a MMA champ, especially one already pissed off, and say, Your mom sure %$*@ me good last night. The editor is known to have said "I would rather die standing on my feet then kneeling." This is courage, not stupidity. This is conviction, not ignorance. A great many people identify with this conviction. . Well, now, you're talking oranges to my apples. I never said anything about stupidity, and I never would condone kneeling. Those are your words. I was talking about discretion. But respect comes into play, too. I don't agree with other people's religions, but I never mock them. Never. I respect their right to believe what they want to believe, just as your editor demanded respect for his free speech. Except my respect doesn't get people killed. The man who died standing up for what he believed in, he took a number of innocents with him. They were minding their own business in a grocery store. And he did it without asking them if that was okay with them, and their children, and other loved ones. I call that irresponsible and unloving. It also says a lot about the people at the magazine, that they chose to put on their cover that Mohammed forgives them, rather than "Charlie Hebdo" forgives the killers. A/ it's about being in republic and not being told what to think/do B/ Learn to read cartoons! What a character says is in A BUBBLE, above is the CARTOONIST COMMENT . A/ Then stop telling me what to believe and how to behave; B/ I'll get right on that. As soon as I take a course in French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooweerup Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) Charlie Hebdo cartoons would be banned in Australia: human rights commissioner Human rights commissioner Tim Wilson says many of the cartoons published by French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo would be banned in Australia under existing laws. Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act makes it illegal to offend, insult or humiliate someone based on racial grounds. http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/charlie-hebdo-cartoons-would-be-banned-in-australia-human-rights-commissioner/ar-AA87NJE Tim Wilson joins call for changes to discrimination laws, says Charlie Hebdo cartoons would be banned in Australia Human rights commissioner Tim Wilson has joined calls for changes to racial discrimination laws, arguing many of the cartoons published by French magazine Charlie Hebdo would be banned in Australia under existing legislation. Citing concerns from the Muslim community, the Federal Government last year dumped plans to remove section 18C from the Act making it illegal to offend, insult or humiliate based on racial grounds. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-13/wilson-calls-for-discrimination-law-changes/6013946 Edited January 13, 2015 by Kooweerup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MilesofSmiles Posted January 13, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 13, 2015 Dying foe ideas, how ridiculous and selfish it is ! Were you raised in a cupboard ????? Freedom of speech is absolutely an idea worth fighting for and defending. The ability openly discuss any topic, results in a smarter, more tolerant society, which benefits everybody. Without freedom of expression, society becomes anti-knowledge. Open your eyes and have a look around at some of the idiocy that this results in. Distorted knowledge of history neutered analysis of current events, doomed to repeat the same problems again and again. It's kinda bizarre to see every day. The thing about freedom of speech... is that it's got to be all-or-nothing, same deal for everybody, otherwise it just doesn't work. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooloomooloo Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The thing about freedom of speech... is that it's got to be all-or-nothing, same deal for everybody, otherwise it just doesn't work. Good point. When has the line denoting freedom of speech been crossed? I'm far from academia, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 One of the classic limits on freedom of speech is that no one has the right to randomly yell "fire" in a crowded theater because of the potential consequences. Bravely defending freedom of speech by putting yourself on the line is, I suppose, admirable. But some of the people killed and their families, certainly those killed while shopping in the kosher grocery, may not have thought it a sacrifice they were willing to make Of course the terrorists and nut jobs who staged the bombing and hostage-taking are 100% to blame for what they did, but if those who are publishing these cartoons (and let's face it, lampooning Mohammed is hardly a noble cause) know that innocent people are being put at risk, maybe exercising some restraint would be worth considering. Terrorists don't care about collateral damage, but maybe people who think themselves to be the "good guys" ought to care. Why is it not a noble cause. As offensive as anyone may or may not find the drawings, they did highlight some of the ludicrous contradictions in this religion. Burka's as for the protection of women. The Muslim faith is expressly one of peace. And the list goes on. All legitimate contradictions and hypocrisies. I suppose Thailand should be happy. If they started in thailand, they would have a lifetime of subjects to comment on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Charlie Hebdo cartoons would be banned in Australia: human rights commissioner Human rights commissioner Tim Wilson says many of the cartoons published by French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo would be banned in Australia under existing laws. Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act makes it illegal to offend, insult or humiliate someone based on racial grounds. http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/charlie-hebdo-cartoons-would-be-banned-in-australia-human-rights-commissioner/ar-AA87NJE Tim Wilson joins call for changes to discrimination laws, says Charlie Hebdo cartoons would be banned in Australia Human rights commissioner Tim Wilson has joined calls for changes to racial discrimination laws, arguing many of the cartoons published by French magazine Charlie Hebdo would be banned in Australia under existing legislation. Citing concerns from the Muslim community, the Federal Government last year dumped plans to remove section 18C from the Act making it illegal to offend, insult or humiliate based on racial grounds. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-13/wilson-calls-for-discrimination-law-changes/6013946 Muslim is not a race. Duh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 ^^Spot on. Snowing by the way. Quite heavy a minute ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I believe in freedom of speech, but I'm not going to walk up to a MMA champ, especially one already pissed off, and say, Your mom sure %$*@ me good last night. The editor is known to have said "I would rather die standing on my feet then kneeling." This is courage, not stupidity. This is conviction, not ignorance. A great many people identify with this conviction. .Well, now, you're talking oranges to my apples. I never said anything about stupidity, and I never would condone kneeling. Those are your words. I was talking about discretion. But respect comes into play, too. I don't agree with other people's religions, but I never mock them. Never. I respect their right to believe what they want to believe, just as your editor demanded respect for his free speech. Except my respect doesn't get people killed. The man who died standing up for what he believed in, he took a number of innocents with him. They were minding their own business in a grocery store. And he did it without asking them if that was okay with them, and their children, and other loved ones. I call that irresponsible and unloving. It also says a lot about the people at the magazine, that they chose to put on their cover that Mohammed forgives them, rather than "Charlie Hebdo" forgives the killers. This is the contradiction of religion, muslim faith and extremist terrorism. They should be incompatible but of course we see from last week they are not.Most religions talk of peace and forgiveness but the extremist killers took it upon themselves to kill in order to avenge the offence to Muhammed. How do they know that Muhammed hasn't already forgiven them in the way that say another christian prophet may. Why can't Mohammed say "Forgive them for they know not what they do", which is of course attributed to Jesus. Why must the response be violent, if the Muslim religion is apparently one of peace. Who tells these people to react with extreme violence, if the Muslim faith is one of peace and compassion. Why do christians react with compassion and forgiveness for the ignorance of others but Muslim react with violent indignation. The cartoon is comparing the reaction of Muslims to offence with other religions who may choose to say " I forgive your ignorance", for insulting my religion. Which is of course suggesting that the reaction of the extremists killers was driven by base ignorance. This is the contradiction of extremism. Why must extremists fight offence to Muhammed with guns. Why can't they forgive? Edited January 13, 2015 by Thai at Heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrobay Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) These guys are heroes Being able to forgive such barbarism shows a lot of love respect and hope in the human race. And if they are able to forgive SO SHOULD WE I guess you misunderstood they don't mean they forgive the killers the prophet says he forgives the newspaper for printing his pictures It probably means forgiveness both ways. Both the caption and comment interpretations are confusing: I doubt if the Islamists agree that the prophet would be forgiving here, and I dont understand how the cartoonist can be forgiving. Edited January 14, 2015 by morrobay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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