UK Driving licence

[SoiBiker]

I live and work in Thailand under an Extension of Stay based on work, and have always done so since I arrived here in late 2005. Although I own a car and condo, I am well aware that my ststus here is purely based on my work permit and if I leave my job I will no longer have the right to live in Thailand unless I change my visa status. For that reason, I still consider myself a resident of the UK, just one who is working abroad.

It doesn't matter what you consider yourself - if you work abroad, you're automatically considered non-resident by the UK government.

[Jay Sata]

In my opinion the answer is yes.

It is extremely difficult to obtain Thai residency and the majority of expats in Thailand are on various forms of visa.

As such they are visitors not residents.

There is no minimum period you are required to reside in the UK to maintain your domicile there.

Working or living abroad does not remove your UK residency Soi Biker.

You may be confusing the issue with UK tax rules.

https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence

It is also possible to be legally UK resident and at the same time be resident in another country.

Many people including the retired have a semi itinerant lifestyle.I doubt the police chase the travelling or gypsy community in the UK to update their address every few weeks.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Jay Sata

[SoiBiker]

There is no minimum period you are required to reside in the UK to maintain your domicile there.

Either 16 or 46 days, depending on whether you were UK resident in the preceding tax year.

The statutory residence test is a complex beast, though, so many other factors can apply.

[Jay Sata]

There is no minimum period you are required to reside in the UK to maintain your domicile there.

Either 16 or 46 days, depending on whether you were UK resident in the preceding tax year.

The statutory residence test is a complex beast, though, so many other factors can apply.

Correct which is why Lord. Rothermere and his family have been non doms despite living in the UK for a couple of centuries.

If I set off on a world tour taking 365 days out of the UK that does not cancel my UK residency.

Of course a little bit of common sense suggests staying with a friend or relative or indeed in a hotel for a few weeks satisfies the current address rule for renewal. Once you leave the country that was your last UK address and the photo card can not be cancelled.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Jay Sata

[theoldgit]

@ brewsterbudgeon, you might actually want to have a read through the guidance used by the NHS, particularly from paras 3.04 onwards, it's, as you would expect, not very straightforward or even clear cut.

I don't know how thorough NHS Trusts are these day, but I suspect more and more so with some Trusts having staff focussing on this issue.

A person with dual residence can still be ordinarily resident in the UK if their centre of interest remains the UK, eg their family ties and employment interests are there. However, if you spend very little of each year there, or only own a property in the other country, then it may be that their centre of interest is in fact the other residence. If they appear to have an equal centre of interest in each residence then the amount of time they spend in each residence a year may become the deciding factor.

Personally I wouldn't take the risk, but I no longer own a UK property.

ovs_visitors_guidance_oct13a.pdf

[brewsterbudgen]

Interesting. What confuses me is that if I was fired from or resigned/lost my job, I'd have to leave Thailand that day, unless I get a 7 day extension and then I'd have to leave after the 7 days anyway! My sole right to live here is based on my job (teaching). I have no intention of living here unless I have a well paying job and there are not many well paid TEFL jobs here, so I'd immediately return "home" to the UK. From what you're saying I wouldn't be entitled to free NHS care if I did so? How long would I have to reside in the UK, before I regain my resident status?

(Maybe this should be a separate thread?)

Edited January 26, 2015 by brewsterbudgen

[Jay Sata]

The NHS have no way of knowing you were out of the country.

There are no checks on UK residents movements by doctors or hospitals.

There are no exit or entry stamps in UK citizens passports.

The oldgit can return tomorrow and enjoy all the benefits of the NHS.

And so he should.

This is the paragraph that qualifies him.

You are entitled to receive free NHS care if you:

get a UK state retirement pension or another state benefit and normally live in a non-EEA country. You must have lived lawfully in the UK for at least ten years continuously in the past, or worked for the UK government for at least ten years continuously. Your spouse, civil partner and dependent children are also entitled to free NHS hospital treatment if they fall ill. They must be living with you throughout your stay in the UK

You can receive free NHS hospital treatment if you:-

have been living legally in the UK for at least 12 months when you start treatment, and did not come to the UK for private medical treatment. Temporary absences from the UK of up to three months (in England, up to 182 days) are ignored.

This is the bit you need Brewster;

have come to the UK to take up permanent residence, for example, if you are a former UK resident who has returned from abroad, or if you have been granted leave to enter or remain as a spouse.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/healthcare_w/healthcare_help_with_health_costs_e/nhs_charges_for_people_from_abroad.htm

Getting back to driving licences as I have stated before there is no minimum period for using an address.

Therefore if you are living in a hotel or with a relative during your UK visit it can be used for renewal.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Jay Sata

[brewsterbudgen]

Thanks Jay - that's very reassuring.

[theoldgit]

The paper licence has been abolished, you now only need a valid photocard.

When you get a new photo card licence you are also issued with a paper version that can be produced as an alternative to the photo one.

The new paper version may not look like the old style (pre-photo) licence but they haven't actually been abolished and are a legal document in the same way as the photo licence is.

You might want to check that statement:

Updates and advice to motorists on abolition of the counterpart to the photocard driving licence.

From 8 June 2015, the photocard licence counterpart will not be valid and will no longer be issued by DVLA.

Photocard driving licence holders: When DVLA stops issuing the counterpart, you should destroy yours but you still need to keep your current photocard driving licence.

Paper driving licence holders (those issued before 1998)

These will remain valid, and should not be destroyed. From 8 June 2015 endorsements/penalty points will no longer be recorded on these driving licences. This information will be held on DVLA’s driver record, and can be checked online, by phone or post.

The next time you need to update your name, address or renew your licence, you will be issued with a photocard only.

. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driving-licence-changes

[sumrit]

The paper licence has been abolished, you now only need a valid photocard.

When you get a new photo card licence you are also issued with a paper version that can be produced as an alternative to the photo one.

The new paper version may not look like the old style (pre-photo) licence but they haven't actually been abolished and are a legal document in the same way as the photo licence is.

You might want to check that statement:

Updates and advice to motorists on abolition of the counterpart to the photocard driving licence.

From 8 June 2015, the photocard licence counterpart will not be valid and will no longer be issued by DVLA.

Photocard driving licence holders: When DVLA stops issuing the counterpart, you should destroy yours but you still need to keep your current photocard driving licence.

Paper driving licence holders (those issued before 1998)

These will remain valid, and should not be destroyed. From 8 June 2015 endorsements/penalty points will no longer be recorded on these driving licences. This information will be held on DVLA’s driver record, and can be checked online, by phone or post.

The next time you need to update your name, address or renew your licence, you will be issued with a photocard only.

. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driving-licence-changes

Sorry. I based what I said on the information my mate received when he finally updated his original paper licence to a photo one about two years or so ago and hadn't realized there had been a subsequent change to the rules announced.

But as those new rules don't come into effect until 8th June 2015 then, technically, what I said at the time of typing was correct and will remain so for the next four months

[Jay Sata]

The move away from paper has already taken place with abolition of the motor vehicle excise licence or tax disc.

Vehicle duty ,insurance and MOT or test certificate are now held on a central computer which is linked to in car police computers and roadside cameras which read number plates.

I expect driving licences will also soon form part of this database.

Passports also appear to be part of the system hence the ability to renew the photocard with an existing picture on the passport computer system.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Jay Sata

[loppylugs1]

I renewed my UK licence last week online. Very easy and they sent the new licence to my sister's address in the UK, which is the address I use for UK officialdom.

Can use a paid for address in the UK too ( I did)

[Jay Sata]

I renewed my UK licence last week online. Very easy and they sent the new licence to my sister's address in the UK, which is the address I use for UK officialdom.

Can use a paid for address in the UK too ( I did)

In my opinion a sensible approach and job done.

[SoiBiker]

You're required to give a home address for a driving licence - presumably you would be committing some sort of offence otherwise, at the very least risking the £1000 fine for not having the address up to date.

[loppylugs1]

You're required to give a home address for a driving licence - presumably you would be committing some sort of offence otherwise, at the very least risking the £1000 fine for not having the address up to date.

Yeah right,remind me next time

[Porkster]

I actually went through the headache of changing over for the old pink paper to the new card type

6 years ago... What a nightmare because I'd been out of the UK (living here) for 10 years already

[i claudius]

I actually went through the headache of changing over for the old pink paper to the new card type

6 years ago... What a nightmare because I'd been out of the UK (living here) for 10 years already

When i was over on holiday ,i went into the local office filled in a form ,used my daughters address and walked out 10 minutes later with a new one .

[Porkster]

I actually went through the headache of changing over for the old pink paper to the new card type

6 years ago... What a nightmare because I'd been out of the UK (living here) for 10 years already

When i was over on holiday ,i went into the local office filled in a form ,used my daughters address and walked out 10 minutes later with a new one .

I done it from here (Online) because I needed it to rent a car when we arrived at Heathrow... "We don't accept the pink licence anymore" she said at Europcar...

[Eff1n2ret]

You're required to give a home address for a driving licence - presumably you would be committing some sort of offence otherwise, at the very least risking the £1000 fine for not having the address up to date.

Indeed, theoldgit in post 27 pointed out that he has it in writing from the DVLA that you must be a UK resident to be issued with a licence, and that visiting the UK doesn't count, which reflects the actual legislation which I quoted earlier in this thread. This doesn't seem to have deflected such preposterous advice from others as "staying in a hotel for a few weeks satisfies the current address rule for renewal". The online form requires you to state the addresses at which you have lived for the last 5 years, and if the information given is incorrect you have committed an offence under S.173 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, and are liable to a fine or imprisonment.

Having said that, the checks seem to be very superficial so in practice giving the address of a relative could perhaps be classified as a "victimless crime" which is unlikely to be detected. After all, posters are seemingly UK citizens who are only seeking to renew a document which they previously obtained legally - (I once had a foreign illegal prosecuted and jailed for 18 months for obtaining a UK driving licence for which he'd never passed a test or even himself made the application, but that's a different story).

My only 2 concerns in this case would be (i) if the practice of making incorrect applications becomes widespread, the DVLA will eventually tumble to it, and then who knows what action they would take against previous offenders, and (ii) you're fine until something goes wrong, e.g. a serious accident when the fiction might be uncovered. Apart from your liability to prosecution, what view an insurance company would take is anybody's guess.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Eff1n2ret

[Jay Sata]

Like I have said before the UK gypsy and travelling community don't have a problem or are prosecuted by plod so why worry.

Despite owning many UK properties I have not been on an electors register since 1982.

[daveAustin]

Still got the paper one. Same address.

[thonglorjimmy]

Jay Sata, on 18 Feb 2015 - 21:40, said:Jay Sata, on 18 Feb 2015 - 21:40, said:Jay Sata, on 18 Feb 2015 - 21:40, said:

Like I have said before the UK gypsy and travelling community don't have a problem or are prosecuted by plod so why worry.

Despite owning many UK properties I have not been on an electors register since 1982.

You could own 75% of Tunbridge Wells, you probably do, but unless you live in the UK, in one of your many mansions, you cannot legally renew your UK Driving Licence if you're non resident.

You can check your driving licence details online and when you do so the DVLA will check your personal details including your National Insurance number with the Department for Work and Pensions and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs to help verify your identity.

https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence

I'm sure many people use friends and relatives addresses to renew their licences improperly and nine times out of ten they will get away with it, but there's always a chance you will get caught out. When you use your Aunt Agnes's address, are you registered for Council Tax, Income Tax, Pension Purposes and are you on the Electoral Register there?

[JAS21]

Three 'kin pages. ... and I read each reply ...

If you can't pass a Thai Driving Test then you shouldn't be driving.

Unless you have a 5-Year Thai Licence it's not considered a full licence. You can't get an IDP with it.

Both my self and my wife, who is That, are now the owners of 'outdated' UK Licences. (+10 Years)

Neither of our Thai Licences have the address in English. Just the house number in English.

When we go abroad we get IDPs ... however saying that the IDP never has our full address as there is not enough space.

It is just not worth the risk of having an insurance problem.