Pope on Charlie Hebdo: There are limits to free expression

[Lite Beer]

Pope on Charlie Hebdo: There are limits to free expression
NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press

ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE (AP) — Pope Francis said Thursday there are limits to freedom of expression, especially when it insults or ridicules someone's faith.

Francis spoke about the Paris terror attacks while en route to the Philippines, defending free speech as not only a fundamental human right but a duty to speak one's mind for the sake of the common good.

But he said there were limits.

By way of example, he referred to Alberto Gasparri, who organizes papal trips and was standing by his side aboard the papal plane.

"If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said, throwing a pretend punch his way. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."

Many people around the world have defended the right of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo to publish inflammatory cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed in the wake of the massacre by Islamic extremists at its Paris offices and subsequent attack on a kosher supermarket in which three gunmen killed 17 people.

But recently the Vatican and four prominent French imams issued a joint declaration that denounced the attacks but also urged the media to treat religions with respect.

Francis, who has urged Muslim leaders in particular to speak out against Islamic extremism, went a step further when asked by a French journalist about whether there were limits when freedom of expression meets freedom of religion.

Francis insisted that it was an "aberration" to kill in the name of God and said religion can never be used to justify violence.

But he said there was a limit to free speech when it concerned offending someone's religious beliefs.

"There are so many people who speak badly about religions or other religions, who make fun of them, who make a game out of the religions of others," he said. "They are provocateurs. And what happens to them is what would happen to Dr. Gasparri if he says a curse word against my mother. There is a limit."

In the wake of the Paris attacks, the Vatican has sought to downplay reports that it is a potential target for Islamic extremists, saying it is being vigilant but has received no specific threat.

Francis said he was concerned primarily for the faithful, and said he had spoken to Vatican security officials who are taking "prudent and secure measures."

"I am worried, but you know I have a defect: a good dose of carelessness. I'm careless about these things," he said. But he admitted that in his prayers, he had asked that if something were to happen to him that "it doesn't hurt, because I'm not very courageous when it comes to pain. I'm very timid."

He added, "I'm in God's hands."

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-01-15

[Ulysses G.]

I sort of agree with him. A lot of those cartoons are unnecessarily offensive toward religion in general, but there is no absolutely justification for murdering the artists, the employees or the innocent people who just happened to be be in the building.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

There are also limits to how you express your offense at speech that you think has gone too far ...

[gerryBScot]

I am actually quite disappointed by Francis's remarks. I don't think a punch thrown in the heat of the moment is quite the same thing as a planned, co-ordinated and premeditated terrorist attack. I think in most legal systems the idea of provocation as a defence to violence is based on the notion of it being immediate and uncontrollable. I remember a lawyer giving the example of finding one's spouse hard at it with the milk man, as it were. Provocation might be successfully argued to a charge of murder if the offended party's response was immediate in response to the shock of seeing his spouse in flagrante delicto - uncontrollable rage sort of thing; however if he gives his wife a lecture about her poor morals and choice of lover and then kills her then provocation ain't gonna work as a defence. And I'm some what at a loss to understand really what Francis is saying - several million people took to the streets of Paris in an unprecedented statement of opposition to this attack and in defence of free speech. I think they understand this was not a momentary lapse brought about by a sudden shocking experience - what happened was evil,plain and simple.

[phrodan]

He's away with the fairies with this one - inside priest/rabbi/iman blah blah there's a secret censor. Eff them all - we've got priests gangbanging little boys, rabbis promoting the slaughter of children, and imams calling for the death of all infidels. I say cut out all their tongues and the world would be better place.

[JOC]

There are also limits to how you express your offense at speech that you think has gone too far ...

So you are not going to kill me for this one??

[Jingthing]

There are also limits to how you express your offense at speech that you think has gone too far ...

So you are not going to kill me for this one??double-standard 3.gif

No, why would I do that? That's an Islamic Jihadist thing to kill over offensive cartoons and last time I checked that doesn't describe me. In reference to Charlie Hebdo though, the message is rather off considering they have published cartoons offensive to Jews as well as Muslims and Catholics. If you're asking me if I think it's OK that holocaust denial should be illegal in France, my answer to that is that is a matter for French law and I ain't French. I'm American and it is not illegal there.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Jingthing

[Prbkk]

There is a reason these cartoons resonate with people: they poke fun at the posturing religious fools, of all faiths, who seek power and to exercise control of others. A pox on all their houses and long may satirists continue to expose their hypocrisy.

[Jingthing]

There is a reason these cartoons resonate with people: they poke fun at the posturing religious fools, of all faiths, who seek power and to exercise control of others. A pox on all their houses and long may satirists continue to expose their hypocrisy.

Sure, but actually pretty much all humans, religious or not, are hypocrites to some degree and are potential targets of satirists. That includes the satirists themselves!

[Morch]

There are also limits to how you express your offense at speech that you think has gone too far ...

So you are not going to kill me for this one??double-standard 3.gif

[iReason]

I sort of agree with him. A lot of those cartoons are unnecessarily offensive toward religion in general, but there is no absolutely justification for murdering the artists, the employees or the innocent people who just happened to be be in the building.

Religion is the offense.

And the cancer of the human race.

[iReason]

Hey Frank!

Shove your pontificating and <deleted> off.

"...the Vatican and four prominent French imams ... urged the media to treat religions with respect."

Don't even get me started on your horrific past, you self-rightous hypocrite.

Respect? My ass...

[tw25rw]

I don't see why insulting someone's religion is any different to insulting someone's politics. It's all part of the mechanism religions use to control people.

[stat088]

I don't see why insulting someone's religion is any different to insulting someone's politics. It's all part of the mechanism religions use to control people.

The Pope has decided to take sides with Terrorists. It's understandable really.

Religion is quickly losing popularity and he is concerned.

Mohammed was a pedophile same as many Catholic Priests and he can see them being branded with the same brush in the future.

Clutching at straws. Disgusting filth.

The human race will move forward and religion will be a thing of the past.

I hope to live long enough to rejoice the end of fairy tale religion.

[Jingthing]

Come on now. Reality check.

What do you expect him to say? Je Suis Charlie?!?

He's a reformist Pope, but he's still a Pope, and the Catholic church is still the Catholic church.

[tw25rw]

As popes go, he seems pretty good.

[Bwanatickey]

I was brainwashed through The Cold War that the Communists tried to stamp out religion., with terror.

Religion is still around in the old USSR.

Marx said, and you don,t hear this quote that much anymore, " the opium of the people "

[granuaile]

I think Pope Francis walks the talk,.... Many Christians proclaim "What would Jesus do?" Pope Francis asks that and does what Jesus would have done, following in the footsteps of holy men like Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha... I'm a Buddhist-leaning Episcopalian, but I admire this Pope for his forward vision and his truly following the example of Jesus...

[granuaile]

I was brainwashed through The Cold War that the Communists tried to stamp out religion., with terror.

Religion is still around in the old USSR.

Marx said, and you don,t hear this quote that much anymore, " the opium of the people "

I think religion has been replaced as the opium of the masses... Today, it is corporate faux democracy pretending to be democracy...

[granuaile]

I don't see why insulting someone's religion is any different to insulting someone's politics. It's all part of the mechanism religions use to control people.

The Pope has decided to take sides with Terrorists. It's understandable really.

Religion is quickly losing popularity and he is concerned.

Mohammed was a pedophile same as many Catholic Priests and he can see them being branded with the same brush in the future.

Clutching at straws. Disgusting filth.

The human race will move forward and religion will be a thing of the past.

I hope to live long enough to rejoice the end of fairy tale religion.

The prophet Mohammed was not a pedophile... His first wife was much older than him, and young brides were not that uncommon in the past in the East and the West...

[tw25rw]

I don't see why insulting someone's religion is any different to insulting someone's politics. It's all part of the mechanism religions use to control people.

The Pope has decided to take sides with Terrorists. It's understandable really.

Religion is quickly losing popularity and he is concerned.

Mohammed was a pedophile same as many Catholic Priests and he can see them being branded with the same brush in the future.

Clutching at straws. Disgusting filth.

The human race will move forward and religion will be a thing of the past.

I hope to live long enough to rejoice the end of fairy tale religion.

The prophet Mohammed was not a pedophile... His first wife was much older than him, and young brides were not that uncommon in the past in the East and the West...

He was a man of his time. Unfortunately, many of his followers also want to live in that time and for the rest of the world to have to follow suit.

[wooloomooloo]

How does the Pope explain tonight's terror raids in Belgium then.

Would appear to be nothing to do with cartoons and more to do with returning Syrian jihadists hellbent on killing.

[MAJIC]

There are also limits to how you express your offense at speech that you think has gone too far ...

Or in this case a speech that has not gone far enough,the way I read the reply,(from the Pope) as merely self protectionism! we are talking murder/slaughter here,as opposed to written satire and a press protest,which has upset a particular religion but killed no one!

Maybe the Pope should get his own house in order,before joining the world stage of setting the world to right! by denial of the facts! in order to not become a future target for him and his flock!

The Pope has missed the whole point of Charlie Hebdo!

Edited January 15, 2015 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

I was brainwashed through The Cold War that the Communists tried to stamp out religion., with terror.

Religion is still around in the old USSR.

Marx said, and you don,t hear this quote that much anymore, " the opium of the people "

I think religion has been replaced as the opium of the masses... Today, it is corporate faux democracy pretending to be democracy...

"Marx said, and you don,t hear this quote that much anymore, " the opium of the people".

But of course Marx needed to get rid of religion it was too much competition for him and Communism,which was designed to be the new Opium of the people!

[pedro01]

If someone "said a curse word against my mother", i would have the good sense to realize they were just baiting me.

But the pope would lash out with his fists?

Is the pope on steroids or something???

[MJP]

He should have said, freedom of speech comes with responsibility and respect. By setting a limit on it in the context of the Charlie Hebdo massacre he's condoning the murderous response to what he sees as those "limits" having been exceeded.

Very poor choice of words from the Pope.

Organised religion is just another money spinner.

Edited January 15, 2015 by MJP

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[pitrevie]

I don't see why insulting someone's religion is any different to insulting someone's politics. It's all part of the mechanism religions use to control people.

The Pope has decided to take sides with Terrorists. It's understandable really.

Religion is quickly losing popularity and he is concerned.

Mohammed was a pedophile same as many Catholic Priests and he can see them being branded with the same brush in the future.

Clutching at straws. Disgusting filth.

The human race will move forward and religion will be a thing of the past.

I hope to live long enough to rejoice the end of fairy tale religion.

The prophet Mohammed was not a pedophile... His first wife was much older than him, and young brides were not that uncommon in the past in the East and the West...

He was a man of his time. Unfortunately, many of his followers also want to live in that time and for the rest of the world to have to follow suit.

Exactly, it's why we know he wasn't divine or receiving any divine messages just as Christ wasn't anything that was claimed for him. Otherwise we would have been handed a blueprint for the future, things like slavery would have been banned right there and then but all those moral injunctions such as they were stemmed from that period, firmly anchored in that time.

[umbanda]

I totally agree, and I am glad that Pope Francis said that, and I hope more influential people will do it.

If you know a person in your village that is insane and violent, and that do not like farangs, will you make fun of him in public?..and more...insulting his religion?.... and more....knowing that there are many others like him in the village?

Will be a surprise is him, or others like him, come to your home and kill you and everyone inside?

How Mr. Charlie will feel about his "mission" if he was not present at his office that sad day, and everyone there were killed but not him?

Insults and difamation, specially about other people's religion, for any reason, will have consequences. People and countries allowing that cannot be surprise of any kind of violent response, and keeping in doing it is totally wrong.

Edited January 16, 2015 by umbanda

[MJP]

I totally agree, and I am glad that Pope Francis said that, and I hope more influential people will do it.

If you know a person in your village that is insane and violent, and that do not like farangs, will you make fun of him in public?..and more...insulting his religion?.... and more....knowing that there are many others like him in the village?

Will be a surprise is him, or others like him, come to your home and kill you and everyone inside?

How Mr. Charlie will feel about his "mission" if he was not present at his office that sad day, and everyone there were killed but not him?

Insults and difamation, specially about other people's religion, for any reason, will have consequences. People and countries allowing that cannot be surprise of any kind of violent response, and keeping in doing it is totally wrong.

So murdering people is the consequence of inflammatory cartoons about something or someone no one can actually prove exists yet is used as the excuse for killing those who do/did exist?

JE SUIS CHARLIE, pal!