chris2004 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I checked the Fifth Jomtien on Tripadviser and a lot of recent reviews gave it 5 stars. So either it's not too bad or they like karaoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awohalitsiktoli Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 I checked the Fifth Jomtien on Tripadviser and a lot of recent reviews gave it 5 stars. So either it's not too bad or they like karaoke. Or, check the dates of the reviews, which might be prior to the "noise pollution." The hotel has been doing this for the past 60 days or so. Before that, they were not doing it. As stated, the hotel is "shooting itself in the foot," and in the long run will pay the price as it gets a bad reputation for assaulting its customers with horrible noise pollution in the form of horrible music. I would be furious if I booked a room at a hotel that advertises itself as being a peaceful and quiet place to stay and then discovering that it is the most annoying hotel in Pattaya-Jomtien to stay at due to noise pollution. I do not think I am in the minority; most people want to stay at a quiet and peaceful place, one that does not force noise pollution on them. I doubt that there is a "five star" hotel in the world that willingly and enthusiastically subjects its guests to noise pollution for three to four hours each evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Unfortunately, Thais just won't do anything to cause a fuss. I had to leave Thong Nai Pan Yai beach a while back because a single bar in the middle of the beach was blasting noise till 3 am every night. I went down about midnight, and there were only 3 people and a dog there. The manager at the place I was staying wouldn't do anything about it, so I left and gave them a bad review. The whole noise level thing puzzles me. I was walking across Sanam Luang once and speakers were set up for some event. Walking in front of the speakers ( not too close ) my ears were actually in pain. Must be a lot of deaf Thais around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddyjenkins Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The Jomtien thani hotel seems to have had pretty dire reviews according to Agoda. But the reviews seem to have stopped since October last year, which is strange, but means it had problems even before this noise problem. They also appear to have a lot of rooms available for this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awohalitsiktoli Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 The Jomtien thani hotel seems to have had pretty dire reviews according to Agoda. But the reviews seem to have stopped since October last year, which is strange, but means it had problems even before this noise problem. They also appear to have a lot of rooms available for this time of year. Let me make something clear: This thread is not about the Jomtien Thani hotel which is doing nothing wrong and from what I can see with my own eyes does have a steady flow of customers (mainly Chinese now). No, the offending hotel is the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel, which is holding an outdoor concert each night, complete with horrible music. I do not know why Thais want to expose themselves and others to loud and irritating noise pollution, or why a hotel manager would not realize the probable long-term negative impact of subjecting guests to a barrage of noise pollution every evening. The noise pollution problem in Thailand is spreading like some cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonewolf99 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I never believe anything on Trip Advisor or any web site for posting reviews. Especially Thai ones. Many of the hotels / resorts get the staff to post reviews and their friends. I have been stung by this sort of thing several times...great reviews and great pictures - taken 15 years ago the day it opened and the place was fresh looking and new. Just think about it. The Jomtien Thani has 5 star reviews and look at where it is and the customers coming in there. Not exactly streams of international jet setters from Nice, Miami or Barbados ? Chinese and Russian Tour groups. Would they rush to "Triptadvisor" to make a post ? I doubt it. back to dealing with the noise problem...I think you are screwed. Sadly I have to type TiT.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddyjenkins Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The Jomtien thani hotel seems to have had pretty dire reviews according to Agoda. But the reviews seem to have stopped since October last year, which is strange, but means it had problems even before this noise problem. They also appear to have a lot of rooms available for this time of year. Let me make something clear: This thread is not about the Jomtien Thani hotel which is doing nothing wrong and from what I can see with my own eyes does have a steady flow of customers (mainly Chinese now). No, the offending hotel is the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel, which is holding an outdoor concert each night, complete with horrible music. I do not know why Thais want to expose themselves and others to loud and irritating noise pollution, or why a hotel manager would not realize the probable long-term negative impact of subjecting guests to a barrage of noise pollution every evening. The noise pollution problem in Thailand is spreading like some cancer. Yes, I tend of find reviews to be far too generous, in general. The Fifth Jomtien has fantastic reviews, even some 10 out of 10s, which means perfect in every way. I wouldn't stay there though, not even if it was free. Im personally quite scathing in my own reviews, they are often removed by Agoda. Even if I like the hotel i still give bad reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onemorechang Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The Jomtien thani hotel seems to have had pretty dire reviews according to Agoda. But the reviews seem to have stopped since October last year, which is strange, but means it had problems even before this noise problem. They also appear to have a lot of rooms available for this time of year. Let me make something clear: This thread is not about the Jomtien Thani hotel which is doing nothing wrong and from what I can see with my own eyes does have a steady flow of customers (mainly Chinese now). No, the offending hotel is the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel, which is holding an outdoor concert each night, complete with horrible music. I do not know why Thais want to expose themselves and others to loud and irritating noise pollution, or why a hotel manager would not realize the probable long-term negative impact of subjecting guests to a barrage of noise pollution every evening. The noise pollution problem in Thailand is spreading like some cancer. Yes, I tend of find reviews to be far too generous, in general. The Fifth Jomtien has fantastic reviews, even some 10 out of 10s, which means perfect in every way. I wouldn't stay there though, not even if it was free. Im personally quite scathing in my own reviews, they are often removed by Agoda. Even if I like the hotel i still give bad reviews. Why would you do this ? crazy stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenKong Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 No, the offending hotel is the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel, which is holding an outdoor concert each night, complete with horrible music. I do not know why Thais want to expose themselves and others to loud and irritating noise pollution, or why a hotel manager would not realize the probable long-term negative impact of subjecting guests to a barrage of noise pollution every evening. The noise pollution problem in Thailand is spreading like some cancer. Have you complained to the JP manager or the committee in your building? You cant be the only person in the building concerned. Have you complained to the town hall and the police? One thing's for sure: there's absolutely no point complaining here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenKong Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 No, the offending hotel is the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel, which is holding an outdoor concert each night, complete with horrible music. I thought I would walk round that way just to see what it's all about. The noise coming from the Fifth is nothing compared to that coming from Jomtien Complex. And the noise that I can hear late at night is actually coming from some new outdoor karaoke in the middle of Rompho Market. Your noise is minimal compared to both of those, particularly the Rompho one which can only be described as nauseating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I posted a comment on their Facebook page, and received this response : Fifth Jomtien The Residence Pattaya Dear Khun Tony M,Thank you so much for your comment. It is helpful to us and will be taken into consideration.Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awohalitsiktoli Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 I posted a comment on their Facebook page, and received this response : Fifth Jomtien The Residence Pattaya Dear Khun Tony M, Thank you so much for your comment. It is helpful to us and will be taken into consideration. Regards Thank you! In response to a lot of questions, no, I have not reported the noise pollution to the City, the police, or to the manager of the condo where I live. I think that is a waste of time. As an aside, last night was the worst of the worst, especially the noise pollution coming from the farang guitar player/horrible singer. I have never heard such crap, particularly his attempt to copy Chris Rhea's "Road to Hell"........oh what total %$^&, even worse than his rendition of "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Around the Old Oak Tree....", where is my barf bag. The "music" (noise pollution) has gotten louder and more annoying and is lasting longer (over three hours last night). Yes, that is bad, but it is also good because it maximizes the probability that guests will complain about the noise pollution that the manager of the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel is encouraging. It would not surprise me to discover that the actual owner of the hotel does not yet know what his idiot manager is doing to the hotel's reputation. You simply cannot expect to reach "five star status" when you make life uncomfortable for guests. The hotel, prior to its policy of annoying guests with terrible music night after night, month after month, was probably a 2 star hotel at best. Now, it does not deserve a star. The noise pollution promotion is probably a last ditch effort to earn income. They must be catering to people off the street and in some cases catering weddings or celebrations of some kind. Maybe they no longer care about hotel guests! In my view, the hotel is like a big boat, and the manager and his "band" are busy drilling holes in it. The end result: no guests at all. As to the comments about places in the area that are worse, oh I feel for you if that is the case. The noise coming from that "tree" in the Jomtien Complex must be horrible, along with the noise from Rompho Market (not sure where that is). There is another market across from the "sand pit" off of Beach Road that really blasts loud music at people in the area. It is so loud that I have to cover my ears when walking by. But, I often see farangs and Thais sitting right in front of that music, seemingly oblivious to it. Jomtien is no longer a quiet, relaxing alternative to Pattaya. Back to the hotel's Facebook page, I encourage others who are being negatively impacted by the noise pollution coming from the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel on soi 5, in Jomtien, to use that page to complain to the management. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fookhaht Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 When in the Chonburi-Pattaya area I used to stay at Jomtien Beach because of the quiet atmosphere. No more. Thanks for the warnings everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttthailand Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I never believe anything on Trip Advisor or any web site for posting reviews. Especially Thai ones. Many of the hotels / resorts get the staff to post reviews and their friends. I have been stung by this sort of thing several times...great reviews and great pictures - taken 15 years ago the day it opened and the place was fresh looking and new. Just think about it. The Jomtien Thani has 5 star reviews and look at where it is and the customers coming in there. Not exactly streams of international jet setters from Nice, Miami or Barbados ? Chinese and Russian Tour groups. Would they rush to "Triptadvisor" to make a post ? I doubt it. back to dealing with the noise problem...I think you are screwed. Sadly I have to type TiT.... Sadly noise is a major problem everywhere in Thailand. I have stayed hotels before and after one night had to move because of the noise. I now normally always book through agoda and I always read people's comments. The comments are given only by those who have used agoda and I find them to be mostly correct. You need to weed through them as there is always one or two that are to the extreme but most give a true reflection. If I read of a noise problem or other major problem I will not book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender92 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Start pooping into a bag, when you have a lot, go there early in the morning and dump it around the band area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender92 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 How annoying. I always felt Jomtiem was that peaceful idyllic beach area for the couples, away from the madness that is Pattaya proper. And not much fun for those living nearby who have bought their condos....hard to sell up and move now. Noise pollution is such a problem. I live well out of town and where you would expect to enjoy quiet. But there is an annual festival due, I will be hearing 'one two, one two' from 6pm to 8, and then some rather awful music until midnight. Even my Sunday night restaurant now has a weekly festival opposite blasting out music.... I go elsewhere. A nearby car music system shop is always testing its latest increased power amps, and for good measure the local monk and school like to yell over the village speaker system early mornings. I sometimes look forward to power outages. Rent don't buy! Rent don't buy! IMO you'd have to be a mug to buy a house/ condo to live in, in Thailand. This sort of thing has been going on as long as I've been coming to Thailand. The only solution is to move, so, rent. You're right about that. I learned the hard way. Problem is, when you move to a quiet place, eventually the noise comes to you. No escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onemorechang Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Start pooping into a bag, when you have a lot, go there early in the morning and dump it around the band area. Have you done this sort of thing before . the local dogs will love that for breakfast . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddyjenkins Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Start pooping into a bag, when you have a lot, go there early in the morning and dump it around the band area. Why waste a bag? Just go there in the morning and do it, use the bag to put over your head with eye holes, so they wont know who did it. Thats what i would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awohalitsiktoli Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Start pooping into a bag, when you have a lot, go there early in the morning and dump it around the band area. Why waste a bag? Just go there in the morning and do it, use the bag to put over your head with eye holes, so they wont know who did it. Thats what i would do. There is such a mountain of "poop" in and around the spot the "band" is playing on that nobody would notice more poop I think the name of his band is, "The Poop Band", but I am not certain about that. It is clearly evident that the lead singer/guitar player loves to play "poop music". On a different note, I went to the hotel's Facebook page but only saw everything in Thai. Do they have an English page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Somtam Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Noise is a big problem in thailand, but I think Thais just don't hear it as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awohalitsiktoli Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Noise is a big problem in thailand, but I think Thais just don't hear it as we do. I agree, it is a "cultural" problem: What most farangs hear as annoying, terrible, horrendous, stupid noise in the form of "crap music" is wonderful to most Thais. On another point, I have to share this quote from the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel's website. It comes from the first sentence: "Sensible choice for actual relaxing at Pattaya destination..." Did they actually state "actual relaxing?" Yes! Unbelievable! They advertise as a place where guests can relax and then blast them with horrible, loud noise pollution (aka. "music" if you are Thai) from 7-10 (sometimes to 11) each evening. I continue to believe that this shortsighted and misguided hotel policy will backfire on them at some point. The manager of the hotel has been promoting the noise pollution for over two months now. The "dumb and dumber" show continues. If you are in the danger zone (i.e., within listening distance) and have had enough (i.e., tired of being subjected to "Tie A Yellow Ribbon Around The Old Oak Tree", butchered versions of Eric Clapton and Dire Strait songs, and the nausiating "I Did It My Way", among others, I encourage you to complain to the manager via the hotel's website or their Facebook page. Perhaps sanity will prevail, but TIT. No doubt, at some point, if they do not stop, some of the local bars will point their speakers at the hotel and blast them back. What goes around often comes around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forum99 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Write a bad reviews on highly ranked on Google. Do not do this from your home or you could be traced and be charged with defamation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awohalitsiktoli Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Write a bad reviews on highly ranked on Google. Do not do this from your home or you could be traced and be charged with defamation. Please do not engage in any discourse that might be dishonest (I would never do that and do not encourage others to do that). As stated, the policy will backfire eventually. The hotel's guests who thought they were paying big money to stay at a relaxing hotel will eventually respond in an honest manner. Any others, who are negatively being impacted by the noise pollution, can complain to the manager via email or make honest comments on the hotel's Facebook page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartender100 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 How is the situation now The Fifth Jomtien (the Residence) hotel on soi 5 in Jomtien? Have they stopped now? Down Pratumnak 6 and "Mood Blues Cafe" they now find it fun to blast out music at, and I not kid you, 9:30am, so loud that in the building opposite closed windows,a/c and the TV will not cover it.. People are losing patince with "Mood" very quickly, lots of dissussions around the pool on what to do about it So to the owners of "Mood Blues Cafe" please stop the early morning concert/rehersal or what ever the hell you are doing playing music so loud in the morning, your p****** a lot of people off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loppylugs1 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Noise is a big problem in thailand, but I think Thais just don't hear it as we do. Think they do,but too frightened to do anything about it. Yes noise noise noise louder the better,but that is Thailand ( reach for the vomit bag) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awohalitsiktoli Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 How is the situation now The Fifth Jomtien (the Residence) hotel on soi 5 in Jomtien? Have they stopped now? Down Pratumnak 6 and "Mood Blues Cafe" they now find it fun to blast out music at, and I not kid you, 9:30am, so loud that in the building opposite closed windows,a/c and the TV will not cover it.. People are losing patince with "Mood" very quickly, lots of dissussions around the pool on what to do about it So to the owners of "Mood Blues Cafe" please stop the early morning concert/rehersal or what ever the hell you are doing playing music so loud in the morning, your p****** a lot of people off Nothing has changed as far as I can tell, other than they two idiots (aka. dumb and dumber) have added some Eagle's songs to their reportoir and are butchering those as well. Other people where I live are complaining about the noise pollution coming from the hotel. I think some of the surrounding bars have had enough and may turn their amps at the hotel (tit for tat). The "dumb and dumber" band has some type of karaoke machine; one person plays horrible guitar, devoid of emotion and any original style (unfortunately, he thinks he is actually good); both are horrible singers. The main issue is that the amps are pointed towards the pool, and the "sound danger zone" is incorporating hotels and condos in the local area. The hotel portrays itself as a multi-star hotel that is the place to go to relax. Maybe Thais (and drunk Norwegians.....no offense intended) think listening to such horrible music is relaxing. If Thais like the noise pollution and most farangs do not, it is almost a certainty that some farangs will eventually start complaining about it. I have never been to any upscale hotel in the world that does what this hotel is doing--deliberately blasting loud and annoying music at guests each evening for 2-4 hours, month after month. Sorry to hear about the Mood Blues Cafe issue. The noise pollution problem is spreading like a cancer all over Thailand. Could this be the next advertisement to compel people to visit Thailand: "Come Relax in the Hub of Noise Pollution: Thailand." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loppylugs1 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 How is the situation now The Fifth Jomtien (the Residence) hotel on soi 5 in Jomtien? Have they stopped now? Down Pratumnak 6 and "Mood Blues Cafe" they now find it fun to blast out music at, and I not kid you, 9:30am, so loud that in the building opposite closed windows,a/c and the TV will not cover it.. People are losing patince with "Mood" very quickly, lots of dissussions around the pool on what to do about it So to the owners of "Mood Blues Cafe" please stop the early morning concert/rehersal or what ever the hell you are doing playing music so loud in the morning, your p****** a lot of people off Nothing has changed as far as I can tell, other than they two idiots (aka. dumb and dumber) have added some Eagle's songs to their reportoir and are butchering those as well. Other people where I live are complaining about the noise pollution coming from the hotel. I think some of the surrounding bars have had enough and may turn their amps at the hotel (tit for tat). The "dumb and dumber" band has some type of karaoke machine; one person plays horrible guitar, devoid of emotion and any original style (unfortunately, he thinks he is actually good); both are horrible singers. The main issue is that the amps are pointed towards the pool, and the "sound danger zone" is incorporating hotels and condos in the local area. The hotel portrays itself as a multi-star hotel that is the place to go to relax. Maybe Thais (and drunk Norwegians.....no offense intended) think listening to such horrible music is relaxing. If Thais like the noise pollution and most farangs do not, it is almost a certainty that some farangs will eventually start complaining about it. I have never been to any upscale hotel in the world that does what this hotel is doing--deliberately blasting loud and annoying music at guests each evening for 2-4 hours, month after month. Sorry to hear about the Mood Blues Cafe issue. The noise pollution problem is spreading like a cancer all over Thailand. Could this be the next advertisement to compel people to visit Thailand: "Come Relax in the Hub of Noise Pollution: Thailand." Too true,angle grinders,rip saws,silencers with the baffles punched through, anything that generates noise,they love 'em, more noise the better,gives Thais a sense of power in their grubby little lives. Not worth complaining about,you know its there,nothings going to happen to change it unless getting the hell out of Thailand. Yes, that is being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awohalitsiktoli Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 How is the situation now The Fifth Jomtien (the Residence) hotel on soi 5 in Jomtien? Have they stopped now? Down Pratumnak 6 and "Mood Blues Cafe" they now find it fun to blast out music at, and I not kid you, 9:30am, so loud that in the building opposite closed windows,a/c and the TV will not cover it.. People are losing patince with "Mood" very quickly, lots of dissussions around the pool on what to do about it So to the owners of "Mood Blues Cafe" please stop the early morning concert/rehersal or what ever the hell you are doing playing music so loud in the morning, your p****** a lot of people off Nothing has changed as far as I can tell, other than they two idiots (aka. dumb and dumber) have added some Eagle's songs to their reportoir and are butchering those as well. Other people where I live are complaining about the noise pollution coming from the hotel. I think some of the surrounding bars have had enough and may turn their amps at the hotel (tit for tat). The "dumb and dumber" band has some type of karaoke machine; one person plays horrible guitar, devoid of emotion and any original style (unfortunately, he thinks he is actually good); both are horrible singers. The main issue is that the amps are pointed towards the pool, and the "sound danger zone" is incorporating hotels and condos in the local area. The hotel portrays itself as a multi-star hotel that is the place to go to relax. Maybe Thais (and drunk Norwegians.....no offense intended) think listening to such horrible music is relaxing. If Thais like the noise pollution and most farangs do not, it is almost a certainty that some farangs will eventually start complaining about it. I have never been to any upscale hotel in the world that does what this hotel is doing--deliberately blasting loud and annoying music at guests each evening for 2-4 hours, month after month. Sorry to hear about the Mood Blues Cafe issue. The noise pollution problem is spreading like a cancer all over Thailand. Could this be the next advertisement to compel people to visit Thailand: "Come Relax in the Hub of Noise Pollution: Thailand." Too true,angle grinders,rip saws,silencers with the baffles punched through, anything that generates noise,they love 'em, more noise the better,gives Thais a sense of power in their grubby little lives. Not worth complaining about,you know its there,nothings going to happen to change it unless getting the hell out of Thailand. Yes, that is being done. "Not worth complaining?" Well, you might be right. The hotel's Facebook page does include some complaints about the noise pollution/music. Clearly, the manager is aware of those complaints. What was his response? Apparently he told the "musicians" to play louder and for much longer into the night! Initially, I thought the noise pollution/music was coming from a Thai singer and a farang guitar player, but I finally saw the horrible guitar player/singer. He is Thai and has a karaoke box as his "band." At times, I can hear a female singer, so others must take turns torturing the hotel's guests from time to time. I also assume from the manager's "make the problem worse" response that the manager is Thai. I can't imagine a "farang" ever responding in that manner. I continue to think that most guests at the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel do not want to be disturbed by such terrible music each evening for 3-4 hours, and that the manager's plan to create a "relaxing atmosphere" by blasting horrible music at guests will backfire on him and cause the hotel's reputation to go down. Maybe the owner of the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel will finally step in and fire the current manager and end the noise pollution/music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loppylugs1 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Tell you what,Ill put my nearest karaoke singer up against yours,and I will win every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awohalitsiktoli Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Tell you what,Ill put my nearest karaoke singer up against yours,and I will win every time If there is a Hell, it no doubt involves a person strapped to a chair, unable to move, and forced to listed 24/7 to the crap noise pollution/music coming from a karaoke machine and a Thai singer w/ a guitar in the courtyard of the Fifth Jomtien (Residence) hotel, Soi 5, Jomtien. Or, perhaps it involves the karaoke singer you apparently have grown to love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.